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News of our Beloved Spitfire?

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The spitfire doesn't have the new FM. I tried a low(ish) speed flat turn like the Devs posted, and i couldn't do it without either rolling into a stall, or having no rudder authority (at higher speeds).

 

I feel like every patch I'm super excited before and after, next up New FMs!

Then Kuban Map

Then Career

And so on...

 

What a time to be a flight simmer B)

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New FM on spit. Try applying full rudder and realeasing and watch the wobble and how fast it stops. Its better then what we have by far. Not going to touch the other planes until they update them.

Edited by Max_Damage

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I agree with Finkeren - it is easy to side-slip the Spitfire with very little cross control to keep level, unlike everything else I can remember in the game.  So I assume that the new calculations are integrated into the Spitfire FM.  It is also very easy to maintain co-ordinated flight - ie it does not yaw much when you roll it prior to a turn either.  

 

The only difficulty flying I am having is that although it turns well and gives a nice rumble warning of the stall ( excellent work there by the devs ) it cannot pull as high AoA as the 109s, so if you have got used to being able to make a very sharp change of direction to get on target the Spitfire will not let you do it quite so easily. It is only a few degrees, but it has caught me out. I think the Spitfire will perform best with smooth aerobatic flying - as it should, by all accounts.

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The spitfire doesn't have the new FM. I tried a low(ish) speed flat turn like the Devs posted, and i couldn't do it without either rolling into a stall, or having no rudder authority (at higher speeds).

 

I feel like every patch I'm super excited before and after, next up New FMs!

Then Kuban Map

Then Career

And so on...

 

What a time to be a flight simmer B)

It has a completely new FM incooperating the same fine tuning other aircraft will reccieve in 2.012.

Edited by 6./ZG26_5tuka

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It has a completely new FM incooperating the same fine tuning other aircraft will reccieve in 2.012.

 

I don't think it does. My assumption is that they attempted to manipulate the existing global flight model as best they could to get the spitfire to perform similar to that of the 2.012 version of the flight model. Probably a few FM shortcuts like the 109E to achieve it. The 109E doesn't have as much rudder induced roll as an example compared to later 109 flight models.

 

Once the 2.012 update is released, then the Spit will have an updated FM that matches the global flight model changes introduced in that update.

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Well if you say so...

 

Wondering what I've been testing for the last weeks.

 

Edit: There is no "global FM". The Spitfire is setup with the new calculation method that will also be incooperated into other aircraft in the future.

Edited by 6./ZG26_5tuka
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Why then does devs state new FM is coming in 2.012?

 

BTW I am back BABY! :biggrin:  Wobbles are the reason I left and when I did a quick check a few days ago to check status of sim I see new FM incoming.Happy like at Christmas!

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Why then does devs state new FM is coming in 2.012?

 

BTW I am back BABY! :biggrin: Wobbles are

the reason I left and when I did a quick check a few days ago to check status of sim I see new FM incoming.Happy like at Christmas!

Because it will bring the rest of the planes to the new standards.

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Well if you say so... Wondering what I've been testing for the last weeks. Edit: There is no "global FM". The Spitfire is setup with the new calculation method that will also be incooperated into other aircraft in the future.

 

Well looks like I assumed incorrectly then if you have inside info from testing.

Looking forward to the remainder of the planes being brought up to the same standard.

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I think my dreams have come true :o:

 

Zami,I cant wait!!!

Yes, so much great stuff still coming to this title before the years end  :biggrin:

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I'm confused, ordered Battle of Kuban but spitfire and battle of Kuban map not showing up.

 

The map is not released yet

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Edit: There is no "global FM". The Spitfire is setup with the new calculation method that will also be incooperated into other aircraft in the future.

 

I've been arguing this for a while to no avail.

Obviously they are not going to release a new plane with a FM that they know it's wrong before even releasing.

That's double the work for them.

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I'm confused, ordered Battle of Kuban but spitfire and battle of Kuban map not showing up.

 

We're still in 'Early Access' for IL-2: Battle of Kuban. Content is being completed and released as the team works on it.

 

See my guide for a rough idea of what content is coming and when:

https://stormbirds.wordpress.com/2016/12/07/battle-of-kuban-what-content-is-coming-and-when/

 

Note: The dates are a little off now but its close enough. We're expecting access to the Kuban map later in the summer and more aircraft through the fall.

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From what I have seen the Spit displays the changes to the flight characteristics that have been talked about in the dev logs, when I go full rudder in the plane it only rolls a little bit which is about what I expected. When I come off the rudder the nose swings back the other way and then stabilizes fairly quickly with little to no input from me. I'm also a big fan of these .303 guns in action. When I first saw the armament page with that small cannon magazine I was a little worried, but these little MG's pack quite the punch; not quite like the .50's but close enough. And they are very accurate too; plus the Spitfire is a very stable gun platform. All in all, I really like the way the plane behaves in game

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Funny, I find the MGs utterly useless. They are so far spread out , that anything other than exact convergence will score you only sporadic hits with little effect.

 

Btw: Are those guns Vickers .303 or Browning .30cal? I was under the impression, that most wing mounted guns on British fighters were actually US designed Brownings?

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They are Brownings in .303 caliber.

Kthanx :salute:

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Funny, I find the MGs utterly useless. They are so far spread out , that anything other than exact convergence will score you only sporadic hits with little effect.

 

Btw: Are those guns Vickers .303 or Browning .30cal? I was under the impression, that most wing mounted guns on British fighters were actually US designed Brownings?

 

They are Browning machine guns using the British .303 round 7.7 x 56R. Better than the Breda SAFAT 7.7mm but not as good as the ShKAS or MG 17 in raw stats.

 

I suspect its the guns being spread out on the wings that makes them such a problem.

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Note: The dates are a little off now but its close enough. We're expecting access to the Kuban map later in the summer and more aircraft through the fall.

 

With the Spitfire being put back to July I really thought it would be released with the map as I was sure that was due for a July release, maybe I was mistaken

on that, thought I would be test flying the Spit through the mountains this week. :cray:

 

 

Funny, I find the MGs utterly useless. 

 

 

Managed to bag a 109 with them after the cannons ran out of ammo, was really closer in though,and it was smoking rather than

in pieces but went down all the same, beginners luck maybe.  :lol:

 

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. :biggrin:

Edited by Missionbug

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They are Browning machine guns using the British .303 round 7.7 x 56R. Better than the Breda SAFAT 7.7mm but not as good as the ShKAS or MG 17 in raw stats.

 

I suspect its the guns being spread out on the wings that makes them such a problem.

 

 

The .303 Brit may be a relatively old design, even for the 1940's (it was originally loaded with black powder in the late 1880s - although only as an interim measure) but from a ballistic standpoint it is very close in performance of the .308 Win aka the 7.62x51 NATO round.  Its great drawback was it's rimmed design which made it somewhat temperamental when used in automatic weapons or even magazine fed bolt rifles for that matter.  In practical terms, no more or less destructive than the standard German 7.92x57 Mauser round.

Edited by Wulf

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With the Spitfire being put back to July I really thought it would be released with the map as I was sure that was due for a July release, maybe I was mistaken

on that, thought I would be test flying the Spit through the mountains this week. :cray:

 

 

 

 

Managed to bag a 109 with them after the cannons ran out of ammo, was really closer in though,and it was smoking rather than

in pieces but went down all the same, beginners luck maybe.  :lol:

 

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. :biggrin:

 

The schedule was provided to us in December so things have shifted around a bit. We got the FW190A-3 FM update early, the FW190A-5 and He111H-16 came in the same patch. The IL-2 arrived about on time and the Spitfire was just a few days later than the schedule.

 

We haven't seen a ton of dev updates on the map although I'm sure what they are doing right now is the necessary but boring stuff. We haven't heard that its coming in 2.012 either. So I would estimate August for the first release of it (probably with patches after). October and November are still the big months with Yak-7B, Campaign, Co-op, Hs129B-2, A-20B and P-39L-1 all still on the major features list. And not to mention there are undoubtedly some smaller features and things that are "small" tweaks that make big differences.

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Personally I'm very surprised by just how devastating the Hispanos are. As I understand it this is related to how the ammo is not pure HE but penetrates before exploding... but even so, it's a tremendous effect.

 

Granted, with just 6 seconds of fire, I'm very glad they are this good.

 

Bloody fun A/C. Can't wait to have the map and proper MP with it.

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Personally I'm very surprised by just how devastating the Hispanos are. As I understand it this is related to how the ammo is not pure HE but penetrates before exploding... but even so, it's a tremendous effect.

 

Granted, with just 6 seconds of fire, I'm very glad they are this good.

 

Bloody fun A/C. Can't wait to have the map and proper MP with it.

 

The Kuban map has some cliffs in it. Then we need Mods-on mode, so that someone can change the colour of the cliffs - to white.....  ;)

 

As for the effect of the Hispanos - has anyone tried using them against the Soviet aircraft yet? The 109s were always pretty fragile, so I am just wondering if there is a bit of a placebo effect here?  

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Personally I'm very surprised by just how devastating the Hispanos are. As I understand it this is related to how the ammo is not pure HE but penetrates before exploding... but even so, it's a tremendous effect.

 

Granted, with just 6 seconds of fire, I'm very glad they are this good.

 

Bloody fun A/C. Can't wait to have the map and proper MP with it.

 

Hispano 20mm cannons were hard hitting cannons. I'd put them up in the top three with the ShVAK and MG151/20 for hardest hitting. Each has their own strength and weakness but the Hispano has advantages of a high muzzle velocity and a larger cartridge. Its a monster at 20 x 110 with a 130 gram weight and a muzzle velocity of 880 m/s. Details: http://users.skynet.be/Emmanuel.Gustin/fgun/fgun-pe.html

 

The Mark V fitted on Tempest Series II and some Seafire IIIs is even more devastating with a higher fire rate which is historically its weakness (and some reliability issues from 1940-43).

 

The Kuban map has some cliffs in it. Then we need Mods-on mode, so that someone can change the colour of the cliffs - to white.....   ;)

 

As for the effect of the Hispanos - has anyone tried using them against the Soviet aircraft yet? The 109s were always pretty fragile, so I am just wondering if there is a bit of a placebo effect here?  

 

I was testing tonight against FW190s which I've found to be fairly tough. They go down nearly as quickly although they can take it better than the 109 does. Tested against Stukas and He111s and they all went down fairly quickly. This is a potent cannon and so it should be.

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Yeah, in terms of ballistics, the Hispano is the most powerful of the common 20mm cannon in service in WW2. It is probably closer to the VYa-23 in the sim.

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Yeah, in terms of ballistics, the Hispano is the most powerful of the common 20mm cannon in service in WW2. It is probably closer to the VYa-23 in the sim.

 

There is no doubt about that with this shot, severed one wing and cut a neat path through the other nearly severing that one as well. It was a dead six shot from trailing edge to leading edge shot, like a hot knife through butter. 

post-796-0-01132100-1499403647_thumb.png

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There is no doubt about that with this shot, severed one wing and cut a neat path through the other nearly severing that one as well. It was a dead six shot from trailing edge to leading edge shot, like a hot knife through butter.

Hehe, as much as I'd love that to be the case, this is simply how it looks when a wing has suffered structural damage to the point of almost snapping off ;) It isn't the path of the bullet.

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Super easy to land, once that neutral stability has been mastered... touchdown speed is about 80 mph.

 

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We use .303 Brits for moose hunting. Hunting 109s I would rather have cannons. If I had to have machine guns I'd go .50 cal. Way more punch than a .303. Probably a wider selection of ammo types in .50 as well

Edited by Dunfielder

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Super easy to land, once that neutral stability has been mastered... touchdown speed is about 80 mph.

 

That super-low landing speed freaked me out at first, but it makes things so much more manageable, and it is quite stable on the rollout as well.

 

You do need to trim it immediately after dropping flaps though.

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First thing I did was IA duel against a Yak. Both times one hit from the Hispano knocked the wing straight off.

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First thing I did was IA duel against a Yak. Both times one hit from the Hispano knocked the wing straight off.

I did the same against the 109 and 190, with the same result. The Spit is a keeper for sure.

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Well,

 

tbh, I was a bit disappointed by the "feel of flight" of this Spitfire Vb :-/  ( ​Rubish!!!​ )

 

1) I don't feel the sensitivity of the pitch vs roll axis. Roll stiffens with 'q', but pitch pretty much does too. Rudder also stiffens significantly, to the point of being almost innefective at higer speeds - maybe that's ok, I really don't know ( ? )​ Yes it's there and I did notice it quite evidently after flying the Spitfire for a while more....

 

2) On the ground, I see too much rudder authority at taxi speeds and power settings - not the way I supposed it would be, requiring diffrential braking to turn. I can steer using prcatically only the rudder ... Also, the well known tendency to prop strike while taxxing if brakes were used without care isn't there ( ? ) ... Hmmm, maybe not that bad after further testing...

 

3) At practically all sppeds / AoA I can firewall the engine without noticing any significant torque induced roll or slipstream induced yaw... - probably correct after all ( ? )

 

4) Shouldn't there be a pitching down moment due to flap deployment instead of a pitch up ? - This is na option of implementation, due to lack of propper stick feedback...

 

My observations are, of course, based on reading and trying other flight simulation models of Spitfires. 

 

This link:

 

http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/spit_flying.pdf

 

offers some interesting insight.

 

 

Maybe this can all change with the upcoming FM patch, I really don't  know ...

 

Performance and Graphics wise it's very good, with a stable 60 fps on my rig, and the ususal Great Graphics IL2 has accustomed me to.

Edited by jcomm

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Was just doing some reading on the Hispano Cannons we have in our Spit, and no wonder they are so effective. According to wiki the rounds themselves are much bigger than the german cannon rounds, 40mm longer (Pack a bigger punch / more explosive) , and have a much faster muzzle velocity  :o:  They are even bigger / faster than the russian shVAK cannon rounds too blimey.  :cool:

 

 

Hispano : 6c49b31898.png

 

 

 

 

 

shVAK    a38abc40c6.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

mg151/20     00e5b17e83.png

Edited by Bullets

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4) Shouldn't there be a pitching down moment due to flap deployment instead of a pitch up ?

Lets take a look to fig.9 and fig.11 from you link (NACA test report). Data at this figures taken from a sustained horizontal flight with different airspeed. We can evaluate the grade of static stability of the aircraft, based on these data.
fig.9, Gliding condition (flaps and gears up), elevator angle at 100...120 mph is near 4...5 degree down.
fig.11, Landing approach condition (flaps and gears down), elevator angle at 100...120 mph is near 3...4 degree down.
That is, in this way, when flaps and gears down, elevator (and stick) remains almost in the same position as when flaps and gears up. Stick movement induced by pitching down moment is very small.

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Well,

 

tbh, I was a bit disappointed by the "feel of flight" of this Spitfire Vb :-/

 

 

No offense, but what are you smoking?  I think you need to give it another try.

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I think he is surprised that it is easy to fly.

 

Like the real thing was in comparison to say, the 109.

 

Hopefully, some day, the "harder is more real" crowd will understand the fallacy of that argument and come to understand that real is more real, but I doubt it.

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Interesting observations Jcomm.

 

I kind of agree about the rudder effectiveness on the ground. That really should require differential braking to steer.

 

Rudder stiffening up at high speeds on the other hand I think is correct and one of the things I expect to change in some other planes as well in 2.012.

Hopefully, some day, the "harder is more real" crowd will understand the fallacy of that argument and come to understand that real is more real, but I doubt it.

Jcomm is a dedicated civilian flight simmer. I seriously doubt he his part of that crowd.

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