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IckyATLAS

4K or 2K default skins ?

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All the skins that come default or as unlocks in the game are they standard 2K or 4K skins? Same question for other textures used in the game.

 

Sorry  I skipped the other post on 4K skin, I should have posted there. The question still holds nevertheless.

Edited by IckyATLAS

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Is there a plan to revamp all the existing skins to a standard 4K skins ? They could be sold as an additional option or so.

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Is there a plan to revamp all the existing skins to a standard 4K skins ? They could be sold as an additional option or so.

I don't think they will do that. The 4K skin files are six times larger than the normal ones. If they are forcing them on people, some with slower systems might experience problems with skins taking a long time to load in-game. This was a persistent problem for long time, and it could reemerge with the 4K skins.

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The devs have already said, that they are not interested in making officially approved skin packs, the way they did for Rise Of Flight, so that would require a change in policy.

 

It wouldn't make much difference anyway, the downloaded 4K skins couldn't replace the original ones in game, cause these are hard coded into the game, and if they were to include them as an option to completely replace the original skins (so that when you encounter people using the original skins in MP, you'll see them as 4K skins), that would break the policy of having all players playing the same game.

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I suppose that in a few years even an average system should be able to handle those 4K skins. Who knows maybe for the Pacific Fighter (two years from now at least) we may get 4K from start.

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i use a 5 year old PC (no upgrades) and it has NO trouble whatsoever with the 4k skins. i don't see a reason not to use community created 4k versions of the current skins as a replacement

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How many aircraft are in the game at one time with 4K skins Asgar?

 

Something tells me that if I gave you the current campaign mission that I'm working in with a flight of 10 Ju52's, 4 109's flying cover, that would drop your system to it's knees with 4K skins. That's not counting the 8 or so aircraft involved in the mission.

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the game should be able to run 4K skins fine for an entire flight of 84 players on a server no issues and lots of Ai in SP

4K skins are nice but they are not that big for any pc that can run dx11

Old pcs used to struggle with them in game like FSX not her
Pentium 4 (2ghz)
GTX6800GT
4gb ram
Run 4K skins fine in FSX

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If you're right Shadow, that's good news.

I haven't done any testing yet on my end.

 

I just know that I can push things to the edge with lots of activity and 2k skins.

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How many aircraft are in the game at one time with 4K skins Asgar?

 

Something tells me that if I gave you the current campaign mission that I'm working in with a flight of 10 Ju52's, 4 109's flying cover, that would drop your system to it's knees with 4K skins. That's not counting the 8 or so aircraft involved in the mission.

 

You're a dirty, dirty tease.  ;)

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AFAIK BoX use texture caching and streaming properly

If you have 10 x ju52 with 4k Skins (only 1 skin takes up memory so to speak)
The others are simply cloned where as some game would create them all seperate.

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How many aircraft are in the game at one time with 4K skins Asgar?

 

Something tells me that if I gave you the current campaign mission that I'm working in with a flight of 10 Ju52's, 4 109's flying cover, that would drop your system to it's knees with 4K skins. That's not counting the 8 or so aircraft involved in the mission.

 

I don't think the memory load of a few dozen skins will make much of a difference. I was thinking mainly about the time taken to load in-game.

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You're a dirty, dirty tease. ;)

You have PM

AFAIK BoX use texture caching and streaming properly

 

If you have 10 x ju52 with 4k Skins (only 1 skin takes up memory so to speak)

The others are simply cloned where as some game would create them all seperate.

Good insight - thank you.

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Pinko , a 4K skin has to be recreated from scratch.

There's more pixels/more information.

 

It's nicer, but still not enough to render certain finer details. For my renderings I need 6k textures to get cowl screws and such represented properly :)

 

Still it's a huge step forward, but someone has to make each skin - it's not simply a matter of activating and now you have a 4K version of every skin.

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Not all skins in game are displayed at 2k or 4k all the time.  Only if the plane is close do you see the full skin version.  That is why fps are not that affected by the 4k skin.  Most 2k or 4k skins include mipmaps (smaller versions of the skins included in most dds files) that handle skins viewed at distance thus keeping performance higher.  I say most as it depends on whether the skinner generated mipmaps at the time they created the skin.  You can tell by the size of the file.  For 4k skins a size of 21MB contains mipmaps while 16MB do not.  If mipmaps are not present when needed for a distant version of a skin, then the graphics board (I believe) deals with generating the smaller version on the fly.

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The devs have already said, that they are not interested in making officially approved skin packs, the way they did for Rise Of Flight.

And that is a damn shame :-(

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Something tells me that if I gave you the current campaign mission that I'm working in with a flight of 10 Ju52's, 4 109's flying cover, that would drop your system to it's knees with 4K skins. That's not counting the 8 or so aircraft involved in the mission.

I've run a first performance test with 4k skins. My test mission had 33 Bf-109G2s. First I ran it with standard 2k skins and afterwards with 4k skins. The performance difference was very low, maybe 2-3 fps. So I don't think there will be any problems in your missions.

 

The performance impact will certainly increase when more aircraft are active, especially bombers like the He-111. When the first 4k skin for the He-111 is ready, I will do another test.

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I've run a first performance test with 4k skins. My test mission had 33 Bf-109G2s. First I ran it with standard 2k skins and afterwards with 4k skins. The performance difference was very low, maybe 2-3 fps. So I don't think there will be any problems in your missions.

 

The performance impact will certainly increase when more aircraft are active, especially bombers like the He-111. When the first 4k skin for the He-111 is ready, I will do another test.

I Hope you ran the Test on Ultra PReset (High and Normal have a lower texture res lock (2048 and 1024pix Respectively i think Low Preset knocks texture res down to an awesome 256x256pix :D (if its 512 ill eat my hat)

Edited by =R4T=Sshadow14

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I've run a first performance test with 4k skins. My test mission had 33 Bf-109G2s. First I ran it with standard 2k skins and afterwards with 4k skins. The performance difference was very low, maybe 2-3 fps. So I don't think there will be any problems in your missions.

 

The performance impact will certainly increase when more aircraft are active, especially bombers like the He-111. When the first 4k skin for the He-111 is ready, I will do another test.

 

Great news - thanks!

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I would be a lot more interested in 4k cockpits at this point.

+1

Majority of the time Im not looking at how nice the enemy aircraft looks, I'm just trying to bring down or evade the silhouette...

But looking at my wings and seeing blurry rivets and panels makes me feel like the AME didn't do their job top notch :)

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I would be a lot more interested in 4k cockpits at this point.

 

 

+1

Majority of the time Im not looking at how nice the enemy aircraft looks, I'm just trying to bring down or evade the silhouette...

But looking at my wings and seeing blurry rivets and panels makes me feel like the AME didn't do their job top notch :)

+1

4k cockpits would be a fantastic addition!

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I don't think they will do that. The 4K skin files are six times larger than the normal ones. If they are forcing them on people, some with slower systems might experience problems with skins taking a long time to load in-game. This was a persistent problem for long time, and it could reemerge with the 4K skins.

 

Let's hope the community remains smart and doesn't advocate for extra-extraordinarily detailed shiny skins.  I'm more interested in frame rates, reasonable loading times, bug free rendering at tactically significant ranges and resources spent on AI aircraft, ground units, and a larger live battlefield.

 

The moment the community insists on going full-retard on grpahics quality "because we can"  "or because, why not"  the things I listed above are lost.  Don't forget that. 

 

The skins we have now are MORE than sufficient.

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Let's hope the community remains smart and doesn't advocate for extra-extraordinarily detailed shiny skins.  I'm more interested in frame rates, reasonable loading times, bug free rendering at tactically significant ranges and resources spent on AI aircraft, ground units, and a larger live battlefield.

 

The moment the community insists on going full-retard on grpahics quality "because we can"  "or because, why not"  the things I listed above are lost.  Don't forget that. 

 

The skins we have now are MORE than sufficient.

This is another point too...

I'm more concerned for the "bubble" distance and pop up range of objects. 

Sometimes along a road the trees will start popping up and they look like smoke puffs of someone shooting at ground targets or small bombs going off.. 

Would love to one day see 100+ contrails on the sky, or ground battles that fill a battlefield..

 

Wish.....

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I would be a lot more interested in 4k cockpits at this point.

 

Yes, but they don't really need to be 4K, there just could be more time put into the cockpit textures, be they 2K or 4K.

Not everything is about more resolution, and a fast 4K texture isn't going to look much better than a fast 2K texture.

 

What we see now is a balance between time spent and getting the aircraft produced and delivered, and I appreciate that balance.

That said I wouldn't complain about 20% more time put into the textures, and yes more pixels would help.

The point though is that more time, more layers and work would also help even if the resolution stayed the same.

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No no 4K cocpits MAKE a huge difference.

had many of them in FSX P3d and Xplane 10
they are Majorly different.

Its like comparing a 480p picture to a 1080P picture

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No no 4K cocpits MAKE a huge difference.

 

had many of them in FSX P3d and Xplane 10

they are Majorly different.

 

Its like comparing a 480p picture to a 1080P picture

'sigh'

I get that - you miss the point. The data in that picture also matters, resolution aside.

More pixels does not make a texture that you spent 15 minutes on look better, and a texture that you spent 4 hours on will look nicer

even if at 2K. I've built my share of 3D textures for aircraft at 6K and above. I'm no stranger to high resolution. :)

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Let's hope the community remains smart and doesn't advocate for extra-extraordinarily detailed shiny skins.  I'm more interested in frame rates, reasonable loading times, bug free rendering at tactically significant ranges and resources spent on AI aircraft, ground units, and a larger live battlefield.

 

The moment the community insists on going full-retard on grpahics quality "because we can"  "or because, why not"  the things I listed above are lost.  Don't forget that. 

 

The skins we have now are MORE than sufficient.

 

Maybe the skins now are MORE than sufficient for some, but current standards are 4K, 95% of average computers can handle it, updating to current standards is far from going "full retard"

 

Staying at Windows XP levels and DX9 is far more "full retard"

 

We need to move with the times not stay stuck in the mud ? original IL-2 was hampered by strictly remaining loyal to the computer standards that existed at release in 2001

 

as new tech evolves things must be updated,  

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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Maybe the skins now are MORE than sufficient for some, but current standards are 4K, 95% of average computers can handle it, updating to current standards is far from going "full retard"

 

 

^this. as i said earlier in this thread. my 5 year old PC has not problems handling 4k skins. especially since you don't always see 4k, mipmaps a there for a reason. If my GTX 680 can handle it, most people here can (otherwise i wonder who the people are crying for VR, if you are afraid of 4k skins you should forget about flying in VR  :lol:  )

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yes thats my other point..

its not like when planes are flying around you thats you see 4K planes everywhere .

No yours is 4K (someone parked within 20M might show as 4K) but im sure with lodding detail much past this will step down
with planes around 2km away being maybe 0.25k (256x256pix Textures, Those @ 9km are 16x16pix res.)

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'sigh'

I get that - you miss the point. The data in that picture also matters, resolution aside.

More pixels does not make a texture that you spent 15 minutes on look better, and a texture that you spent 4 hours on will look nicer

even if at 2K. I've built my share of 3D textures for aircraft at 6K and above. I'm no stranger to high resolution. :)

Then to put it another way the cockpit skins in CloD are noticeably higher res than BoS and look much better for it.

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Sure.

Staring off with a 4K file wouldn't really add to the development time either. It's a matter of how much time is put into the texture itself,

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Well isn't BOS, unlike ROF, using DirectDraw Surface which should be decompressed in hardware by GPUs?

If so, there should not be notable difference in performance between using 2k and 4k skins.

 

Making 4k skins on the other hand would take some time to do, but if original ones are given in a format with all their layers (maybe they already are available, I don't really know since making skins is not my focus). 

 

Either way, plane skins are not that important to me, but like many others said, I'd like if community would get the option to re-skin cockpit in higher definition and detail, because that is what we're looking at most of the flight.

Devs should really consider allowing  this option if there is no great tech obstacles. Community tends to make nice things and take some workload off development teams when it's possible. 

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Maybe the skins now are MORE than sufficient for some, but current standards are 4K, 95% of average computers can handle it, updating to current standards is far from going "full retard"

 

Staying at Windows XP levels and DX9 is far more "full retard"

 

We need to move with the times not stay stuck in the mud ? original IL-2 was hampered by strictly remaining loyal to the computer standards that existed at release in 2001

 

as new tech evolves things must be updated,  

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

All I'm saying is that the Devs have limited resources.  I personally, right now, this minute do not look at the skins we have or the Cockpit textures and say "My God!  This is unbearable!  I don't think I can look at these skins...ugh this dated cockpit, how can I play this game ANY LONGER...?"

 

What I DO say is..."Man it sure would be nice if we could load more than 10 active AI ground units in a 6 km radius in multiplayer.  Boy wouldn't it be great if multi-player maps, heck even SP maps felt ALIVE" you know, like there were several million men fighting to their dying breath beneath you? 

 

One of the strong points of this sim, in my opinion is the visual effects.  The planes look great.  The cockpits look great.  No need to future proof them now when resources could be spent on other things that ACTUALLY need help.

 

Skins, Not Broken.

 

Cockpit textures and shading, not broken.

 

Before we start pining away for 4k Skins and improved cockpit textures  "Because, why not" lets make sure the game is delivering on all fronts.  It a resources issue not a technology issue.  Read my first post again...

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I have tested multiple 8 v 8 quick missions and even from scramble, near Stalingrad in overcast clouds, the FPS is perfectly fine with all aircraft using 4k skins and 4k bumpmaps.  This is using a 4k monitor with all graphical settings at max apart.

 

I'm using an AMD Fury X GPU, hardly cutting edge by today's standards.

 

8v8 Fw190-a5 vs MiG-3, Stalingrad Autumn map.  Each flight of 4x aircraft had their own skin loaded.  The FPS stayed at 60 throughout the tests.  DX11 handles 4k textures perfectly fine.

post-13160-0-25677400-1489424179_thumb.jpg

post-13160-0-07958900-1489424182_thumb.jpg

Edited by ICDP

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On the subject of 4k skins not making a difference at normal combat distances, your own 2k textured wing is almost always taking up a large portion of your view.  Isn't it better to see a higher resolution texture 4k wing out of your cockpit than a 2k one?

 

 

 

 

post-13160-0-44593700-1489425479_thumb.jpg

post-13160-0-63027700-1489425482_thumb.jpg

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I prefer looking out of my 190 cockpit onto ICDPs 4K wing for sure.

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it's a little more better , but for me  the motors on bombers  needs more to be upgrated , in cockpit view .

Edited by sport02

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