Jason_Williams 22577 Posted January 28, 2017 The Japanese Fleet at the Battle of Midway Name Class Type Unit Force Akagi Akagi Aicraft Carrier Carrier Division 1 Carrier Force Kaga Kaga Aicraft Carrier Carrier Division 1 Carrier Force Hiryu Soryu Aicraft Carrier Carrier Division 2 Carrier Force Soryu Soryu Aicraft Carrier Carrier Division 2 Carrier Force Haruna Kongo Fast Battleship Battleship Division 3 Section 2 Carrier Force Kirishima Kongo Fast Battleship Battleship Division 3 Section 2 Carrier Force Tone Tone Heavy Cruiser Cruiser Division 8 Carrier Force Chikuma Tone Heavy Cruiser Cruiser Division 8 Carrier Force Nagara Nagara Light Cruiser Destroyer Squadron 10 Carrier Force Nowaki Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 4 Carrier Force Arashi Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 4 Carrier Force Hagikaze Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 4 Carrier Force Maikaze Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 4 Carrier Force Kazagumo Yugumo Destroyer Destroyer Division 10 Carrier Force Yugumo Yugumo Destroyer Destroyer Division 10 Carrier Force Makigumo Yugumo Destroyer Destroyer Division 10 Carrier Force Urakaze Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 17 Carrier Force Isokaze Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 17 Carrier Force Tanikaze Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 17 Carrier Force Hamakaze Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 17 Carrier Force Oiler #1 Unknown Oiler Supply Group Carrier Force Oiler #2 Unknown Oiler Supply Group Carrier Force Oiler #3 Unknown Oiler Supply Group Carrier Force Oiler #4 Unknown Oiler Supply Group Carrier Force Oiler #5 Unknown Oiler Supply Group Carrier Force Akigumo Kagero Destroyer Supply Group Carrier Force Yamato Yamato Battleship Battleship Division 1 Main Force Nagato Nagato Battleship Battleship Division 1 Main Force Mutsu Nagato Battleship Battleship Division 1 Main Force Hosho Hosho Light Carrier Battleship Division 1 Main Force Chiyoda Chitose Seaplane Tender Battleship Division 1 Main Force Nisshin Nisshin Seaplane Tender Battleship Division 1 Main Force Sendai Sendai Light Cruiser Destroyer Squadron 3 Main Force Flagship Admiral Yamamoto Isoroku Fubuki Fubuki Destroyer Destroyer Division 11 Main Force Shirayuki Fubuki Destroyer Destroyer Division 11 Main Force Murakumo Fubuki Destroyer Destroyer Division 11 Main Force Hatsuyuki Fubuki Destroyer Destroyer Division 11 Main Force Isonami Fubuki Destroyer Destroyer Division 19 Main Force Uranami Fubuki Destroyer Destroyer Division 19 Main Force Shikinami Ayanami Destroyer Destroyer Division 19 Main Force Ayanami Ayanami Destroyer Destroyer Division 19 Main Force Oiler #6 Uknown Oiler 1st Supply Unit Main Force Oiler #7 Uknown Oiler 1st Supply Unit Main Force Ise Ise Battleship Battleship Division 2 Guard Force Hyuga Ise Battleship Battleship Division 2 Guard Force Fuso Fuso Battleship Battleship Division 2 Guard Force Yamashiro Fuso Battleship Battleship Division 2 Guard Force Oi Kuma Light Cruiser Cruiser Division 9 Guard Force Kitakami Kuma Light Cruiser Cruiser Division 9 Guard Force Asagiri Ayanami Destroyer Destroyer Division 20 Guard Force Yugiri Ayanami Destroyer Destroyer Division 20 Guard Force Shirakumo Fubuki Destroyer Destroyer Division 20 Guard Force Amagiri Ayanami Destroyer Destroyer Division 20 Guard Force Umikaze Shiratsuyu Destroyer Destroyer Division 24 Guard Force Yamakaze Shiratsuyu Destroyer Destroyer Division 24 Guard Force Kawakaze Shiratsuyu Destroyer Destroyer Division 24 Guard Force Suzukaze Shiratsuyu Destroyer Destroyer Division 24 Guard Force Ariake Hatsuharu Destroyer Destroyer Division 27 Guard Force Yugure Hatsuharu Destroyer Destroyer Division 27 Guard Force Shigure Shiratsuyu Destroyer Destroyer Division 27 Guard Force Shiratsuyu Shiratsuyu Destroyer Destroyer Division 27 Guard Force Oiler #8 Oiler Oiler 2nd Supply Unit Guard Force Oiler #9 Oiler Oiler 2nd Supply Unit Guard Force Zuiho Zuiho Light Carrier Zuiho Air Group Invasion Force Mikazuki Mutsuki Destroyer Zuiho Plane Guard Invasion Force Kongo Kongo Fast Battleship Battleship Division 3 Section 1 Invasion Force Hiei Kongo Fast Battleship Battleship Division 3 Section 1 Invasion Force Atago Takao Heavy Cruisers Cruiser Division 4 Section 1 Invasion Force Chokai Takao Heavy Cruisers Cruiser Division 4 Section 1 Invasion Force Myoko Myoko Heavy Cruisers Cruiser Division 5 Invasion Force Haguro Myoko Heavy Cruisers Cruiser Division 5 Invasion Force Yura Nagara Light Cruiser Destroyer Squadron 4 Invasion Force Flagship Vice Admiral Kondo Nobutake Mursame Shiratsuyu Destroyer Destroyer Division 3 Invasion Force Samidare Shiratsuyu Destroyer Destroyer Division 3 Invasion Force Harusame Shiratsuyu Destroyer Destroyer Division 3 Invasion Force Yudachi Shiratsuyu Destroyer Destroyer Division 3 Invasion Force Asagumo Asashio Destroyer Destroyer Division 9 Invasion Force Minegumo Asashio Destroyer Destroyer Division 9 Invasion Force Natsugumo Asashio Destroyer Destroyer Division 9 Invasion Force Oiler #9 Uknown Oiler Supply Group Invasion Force Oiler #10 Uknown Oiler Supply Group Invasion Force Oiler #11 Uknown Oiler Supply Group Invasion Force Oiler #12 Uknown Oiler Supply Group Invasion Force Akashi Akashi Repair Ship Supply Group Invasion Force Kumano Mogami Heavy Cruisers Cruiser Division 7 Close Support Group Suzuya Mogami Heavy Cruisers Cruiser Division 8 Close Support Group Mogami Mogami Heavy Cruisers Cruiser Division 9 Close Support Group Mikuma Mogami Heavy Cruisers Cruiser Division 10 Close Support Group Arashio Asashio Destroyer Destroyer Division 8 Close Support Group Asashio Asashio Destroyer Destroyer Division 9 Close Support Group Oiler #13 Uknown Oiler Supply Group Close Support Group Jintsu Sendai Light Cruiser Destroyer Squadron 2 Transport Group Kuroshio Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 15 Transport Group Oyashio Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 15 Transport Group Yukikaze Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 16 Transport Group Amatsukaze Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 16 Transport Group Tokitsukaze Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 16 Transport Group Hatsukaze Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 16 Transport Group Shiranuhi Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 18 Transport Group Kasumi Asashio Destroyer Destroyer Division 18 Transport Group Kagero Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 18 Transport Group Arare Asashio Destroyer Destroyer Division 18 Transport Group Transport #1 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Transport #2 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Transport #3 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Transport #4 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Transport #5 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Transport #6 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Transport #7 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Transport #8 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Transport #9 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Transport #10 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Transport #11 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Transport #12 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Patrol Boat 1 Minekazi Transport Transport Group Transport Group Patrol Boat 2 Minekazi Transport Transport Group Transport Group Patrol Boat 34 Momi Transport Transport Group Transport Group Akebono Maru Unknown Oiler Transport Group Transport Group Chitose Chitose Seaplane Tender Seaplane Group Seaplane Tender Group Kamikawa Maru Kamikawa Maru Seaplane Tender Seaplane Group Seaplane Tender Group Hayashio Kagero Destroyer Seaplane Group Seaplane Tender Group Patrol Boat 35 Momi Transport Seaplane Group Seaplane Tender Group Minesweeper #1 W-19? Minesweeper Minesweeper Group Minesweeper Group Minesweeper #2 W-19? Minesweeper Minesweeper Group Minesweeper Group Minesweeper #3 W-19? Minesweeper Minesweeper Group Minesweeper Group Minesweeper #4 W-19? Minesweeper Minesweeper Group Minesweeper Group Sub Chaser #1 CH-13? Sub-Chaser Minesweeper Group Minesweeper Group Sub Chaser #2 CH-13? Sub-Chaser Minesweeper Group Minesweeper Group Sub Chaser #3 CH-13? Sub-Chaser Minesweeper Group Minesweeper Group Cargo Ship #1 Unknown Cargo Transport Minesweeper Group Minesweeper Group Cargo Ship #2 Unknown Cargo Transport Minesweeper Group Minesweeper Group Cargo Ship #3 Unknown Cargo Transport Minesweeper Group Minesweeper Group I-168 Kadai Submarine Submarine Squadron 3 Advance Force I-169 Kadai Submarine Submarine Squadron 3 Advance Force I-171 Kadai Submarine Submarine Squadron 3 Advance Force I-174 Kadai Submarine Submarine Squadron 3 Advance Force I-175 Kadai Submarine Submarine Squadron 3 Advance Force I-156 Kadai Submarine Submarine Division 19 Advance Force I-157 Kadai Submarine Submarine Division 19 Advance Force I-158 Kadai Submarine Submarine Division 19 Advance Force I-159 Kadai Submarine Submarine Division 19 Advance Force I-162 Kadai Submarine Submarine Division 30 Advance Force I-165 Kadai Submarine Submarine Division 30 Advance Force I-166 Kadai Submarine Submarine Division 30 Advance Force I-121 I-121 Submarine Submarine Division 13 Advance Force I-122 I-122 Submarine Submarine Division 13 Advance Force I-123 I-123 Submarine Submarine Division 13 Advance Force A grand total of 147 vessels for Midway. The Japanese also launched an operation in the Aleutian Islands chain which is part of Alaska in addition to those sent to Midway. Note: This is for illustration and research purposes only and not a promise form the developers to make all these ships or have all these ships in any scene in the game. This information from very basic readily available sources like books and websites. There are likely mistakes or omissions. Regardless, the Japanese fleet that sailed to invade Midway Island is impressive and illustrates just how lucky the U.S. Navy was in stopping this armada at Midway. Just as important as the airplane was at Pearl Harbor in sinking so many American battleships, it was again the airplane that proved to be the decisive weapon and stopped the Japanese with the loss of four carriers. The U.S. fleet at Midway was outgunned and outnumbered by the IJN, but carrier warfare won the day, not a clash of cannons. The tide of the Pacific War turned after Midway and U.S. shipbuilding efforts eventually dwarfed even this mighty fleet. Note: This represents 38 distinct classes of ships with many large capital ships being unique designs. 20 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason_Williams 22577 Posted January 29, 2017 The American Fleet at the Battle of Midway Name Class Type Unit Force Yorktown Yorktown Aircraft Carrier Task Group 17.5 Carrier Group Astoria New Orleans Heavy Cruiser Task Group 17.2 Cruiser Group Portland Portland Heavy Cruiser Task Group 17.2 Cruiser Group Morris Sims Destroyer Screen Task Group 17.4 Destroyer Group Anderson Sims Destroyer Screen Task Group 17.4 Destroyer Group Hammann Sims Destroyer Screen Task Group 17.4 Destroyer Group Russell Sims Destroyer Screen Task Group 17.4 Destroyer Group Hughes Sims Destroyer Screen Task Group 17.4 Destroyer Group Gwin Gleaves Destroyer Screen Task Group 17.4 Destroyer Group Enterprise Yorktown Aircraft Carrier Task Group 16.5 Carrier Group Hornet Yorktown Aircraft Carrier Task Group 16.5 Carrier Group Minneapolis New Orleans Heavy Cruiser Task Group 16.2 Cruiser Group New Orleans New Orleans Heavy Cruiser Task Group 16.2 Cruiser Group Vincennes New Orleans Heavy Cruiser Task Group 16.2 Cruiser Group Northampton Northampton Heavy Cruiser Task Group 16.2 Cruiser Group Pensacola Pensacola Heavy Cruiser Task Group 16.2 Cruiser Group Atlanta Atlanta Light Cruiser Task Group 16.2 Cruiser Group Phelps Porter Destroyer Screen Task Group 16.4 Destroyer Group Alywin Farragut Destroyer Screen Task Group 16.4 Destroyer Group Monaghan Farragut Destroyer Screen Task Group 16.4 Destroyer Group Worden Farragut Destroyer Screen Task Group 16.4 Destroyer Group Balch Porter Destroyer Screen Task Group 16.4 Destroyer Group Conyngham Mahan Destroyer Screen Task Group 16.4 Destroyer Group Benham Benham Destroyer Screen Task Group 16.4 Destroyer Group Ellet Benham Destroyer Screen Task Group 16.4 Destroyer Group Maury Gridley Destroyer Screen Task Group 16.4 Destroyer Group Cimarron Cimarron Oiler Oiler Group Oiler Group Platte Cimarron Oiler Oiler Group Oiler Group Dewey Farragut Destroyer Oiler Group Oiler Group Monssen Gleaves Destroyer Oiler Group Oiler Group Cachalot Cachalot Submarine Task Group 7.1 Submarine Group Flying Fish Gato Submarine Task Group 7.1 Submarine Group Tambor Tambor Submarine Task Group 7.1 Submarine Group Trout Tambor Submarine Task Group 7.1 Submarine Group Grayling Tambor Submarine Task Group 7.1 Submarine Group Nautilus Narwhal Submarine Task Group 7.1 Submarine Group Grouper Gato Submarine Task Group 7.1 Submarine Group Dolphin Dolphin Submarine Task Group 7.1 Submarine Group Gato Gato Submarine Task Group 7.1 Submarine Group Cuttlefish Cachalot Submarine Task Group 7.1 Submarine Group Gudgeon Tambor Submarine Task Group 7.1 Submarine Group Grenadier Tambor Submarine Task Group 7.1 Submarine Group Narwhal Narwhal Submarine Task Group 7.2 Submarine Group Plunger Porpoise Submarine Task Group 7.2 Submarine Group Trigger Gato Submarine Task Group 7.2 Submarine Group Tarpon Porpoise Submarine Task Group 7.3 Submarine Group Pike Porpoise Submarine Task Group 7.3 Submarine Group Finback Gato Submarine Task Group 7.3 Submarine Group Growler Gato Submarine Task Group 7.3 Submarine Group Clark Porter Destroyer French Frigate Shoals Hawaiian Sea Frontier Ballard Clemson Seaplane Tender French Frigate Shoals Hawaiian Sea Frontier Thornton Clemson Seaplane Tender French Frigate Shoals Hawaiian Sea Frontier PT-20 PT-20 Torpedo Boat French Frigate Shoals Hawaiian Sea Frontier PT-21 PT-20 Torpedo Boat French Frigate Shoals Hawaiian Sea Frontier PT-22 PT-20 Torpedo Boat French Frigate Shoals Hawaiian Sea Frontier PT-24 PT-20 Torpedo Boat French Frigate Shoals Hawaiian Sea Frontier PT-25 PT-20 Torpedo Boat French Frigate Shoals Hawaiian Sea Frontier PT-26 PT-20 Torpedo Boat French Frigate Shoals Hawaiian Sea Frontier PT-27 PT-20 Torpedo Boat French Frigate Shoals Hawaiian Sea Frontier PT-28 PT-20 Torpedo Boat French Frigate Shoals Hawaiian Sea Frontier PT-29 PT-20 Torpedo Boat French Frigate Shoals Hawaiian Sea Frontier PT-30 PT-20 Torpedo Boat French Frigate Shoals Hawaiian Sea Frontier Kaloli Unknown Gas Tanker Pearl and Hermes Reef Hawaiian Sea Frontier Vireo Lapwing Minesweeper/Tug Pearl and Hermes Reef Hawaiian Sea Frontier Crystal Patrol Yacht Converted Yacht Pearl and Hermes Reef Hawaiian Sea Frontier Patrol Boat #1 Unknown Patrol Boat Lisianski Island Hawaiian Sea Frontier Patrol Boat #2 Unknown Patrol Boat Gardner Pinnacles Hawaiian Sea Frontier Patrol Boat #3 Unknown Patrol Boat Laysan Island Hawaiian Sea Frontier Patrol Boat #4 Unknown Patrol Boat Necker Island Hawaiian Sea Frontier Guadalupe Cimarron Oiler Re-Fueling Unit Midway Relief Fueling Unit Blue Bagley Destroyer Re-Fueling Unit Midway Relief Fueling Unit Ralph Talbot Bagley Destroyer Re-Fueling Unit Midway Relief Fueling Unit A grand total of 72 vessels for the U.S. at Midway with several small craft on the extreme fringe of the battle area. Notice no battleships at all on the U.S. side. The U.S. Navy also sent additional ships to the Aleutians to counter the IJN in the extreme north of the Pacific. Note: This represents 27 distinct classes of ships, boats and submarines. 11 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SOLIDKREATE 2026 Posted January 29, 2017 I can't wait Jason. I actually deployed on the USS Enterprise (CVN-65 not the WWII version) with VF-32 in 1997. I hope that VT-8 get's the TBF-1C. They were the first USN Torpedo Squadron to receive them before the BoMY. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BornToBattle 240 Posted January 29, 2017 Wow. Never realized how many submarines were present during the battle of Midway. All I was ever aware of were the surface ships. Carriers will no doubt play a critical role in so far as our interest holds, all the while maintaining a "kill or be killed" awareness. Ready to help in any way I can. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JG4_dingsda 213 Posted January 29, 2017 One of the two Soryu should be Hiryu? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason_Williams 22577 Posted January 29, 2017 One of the two Soryu should be Hiryu? Fixed. It starts to all look the same after a while. LOL Jason Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gambit21 4677 Posted January 29, 2017 Wow. Never realized how many submarines were present during the battle of Midway. All I was ever aware of were the surface ships. Carriers will no doubt play a critical role in so far as our interest holds, all the while maintaining a "kill or be killed" awareness. Ready to help in any way I can. Nautilus attacked the already burning Kaga - that's about the end of it. Her repeated escapes while under attack was the most noteworthy accomplishment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JtD 2350 Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) Anything the community can do to help getting as many of these ships as possible into the game? Edited January 29, 2017 by JtD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
=362nd_FS=Hiromachi 1153 Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) Jason That's actually not correct either Soryu and Hiryu while principally similar had some distinct differences, some visible like island that was moved to the port side on Hiryu while Soryu had one on starboard side. Overall Hiryu was 1500 tons heavier and with all changes it is considered an improved Soryu-class, hence separate classification that is given. Hiryu-class also served as base for Unryu-class. Also, Jason, if I have a list of books, booklets and magazines which contain various materials important for 3d models and design of this ships, can I drop them in this thread ? Edited January 29, 2017 by =LD=Hiromachi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason_Williams 22577 Posted January 29, 2017 That's actually not correct either Soryu and Hiryu while principally similar had some distinct differences, some visible like island that was moved to the port side on Hiryu while Soryu had one on starboard side. Overall Hiryu was 1500 tons heavier and with all changes it is considered an improved Soryu-class, hence separate classification that is given. Hiryu-class also served as base for Unryu-class. Also, Jason, if I have a list of books, booklets and magazines which contain various materials important for 3d models and design of this ships, can I drop them in this thread ? Like I mentioned, my list is a basic one. Any reference material that is copyrighted will be sent to a special email inbox I am setting up. Links to books and other resources are welcome, but wait until I request them to keep it somewhat organized. Jason Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[Pb]Cybermat47 1438 Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) Nautilus attacked the already burning Kaga - that's about the end of it. Her repeated escapes while under attack was the most noteworthy accomplishment. Also, I-168 sank the damaged (but probably salvageable) USS Yorktown, and her escort, USS Hammann. They were the only two USN ships lost in the entire battle. Edited January 29, 2017 by Cybermat47 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
=362nd_FS=Hiromachi 1153 Posted January 29, 2017 Like I mentioned, my list is a basic one. Any reference material that is copyrighted will be sent to a special email inbox I am setting up. Links to books and other resources are welcome, but wait until I request them to keep it somewhat organized. Jason Alright, I'll wait than and prepare what I know of in the meantime. I have a pretty huge list of known to me books and reprints, so I'll just sort them according to ship classes listed in the first post and wait until you will request them. Most of them however are in Japanese so you might need some people to translate those materials for future. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jade_Monkey 3465 Posted January 29, 2017 So great to see the Pacific is already being planned. Excited about this but also looking forward to Kuban. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
=362nd_FS=Hiromachi 1153 Posted January 29, 2017 Yeah. Also, seeing the above list I'm still impressed what is planned for Midway. Probably not all will be included (at least initially) but its still impressive. Going now through the archive I can see that this is going to be a challenge as all those ship classes not only differ in 3d models but also internal systems, equipment and armament. I cant wait for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason_Williams 22577 Posted January 30, 2017 Wait until you see the entire list for the U.S. Okinawa fleet. You can see how fortunes changed from 1942 to 1945. The IJN had really nothing left at that point to contest the landings. Jason Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
=362nd_FS=Hiromachi 1153 Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) Well, I'm not a fan of Okinawa. I dont see how this can be comfortable played and considering all the effort put into technology for Midway, Okinawa seems to have nothing to offer and waste it. No flattops for the Japanese left around or to be honest no fleet at all when whole Japanese Navy changed from 1942 and evolved, which would be interesting to see in naval battle. Edited January 30, 2017 by =LD=Hiromachi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Juri_JS 1475 Posted January 30, 2017 Just out of curiosity - which other 1941/1942 carrier operations could be recreated with the ships from the Midway OOB? Obviously not Coral Sea and Pearl Harbor, because some important ships are not part of the Midway list. The invasion of Wake might be possible which involved the Hiryu and Soryu or the first American carrier raid in the Marshall and Gilbert Islands by the Yorktown and Enterprise. Are there other operations? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
=362nd_FS=Hiromachi 1153 Posted January 30, 2017 Easter Sunday Raid on Ceylon, but that would also require a bit of British fleet. Rabaul attack, Darwin attack. Not all that many to be honest, without Junyo, Zuikaku and Shokaku all post Midway battles are not possible to recreate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinned 130 Posted January 30, 2017 Aleutian Dutch port air raid would be very immersive given the location's weather and landscape... I dont mind flying off from Junyo or Ryujo... I cant believe this is going to happen... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Juri_JS 1475 Posted January 30, 2017 There was also a carrier raid by the Enterprise targeting Wake in February 1942.I think a Wake map might be the best choice to keep the map builders in the team occupied once the Midway map is finished. It would be relatively easy to do in contrast to other scenarios because there are no other islands in the area. Apart from the Japanese attacks on Wake there were eight American carrier raids and countless attacks by land based bombers from Midway so it could be used for the whole 1941-1945 timeframe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeith08 0 Posted January 30, 2017 They coud put all 3 islands in a map just make the Ocean smaller it would be a pain to have so much ocean in the game. Probably be disorientating as a game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
=362nd_FS=Hiromachi 1153 Posted January 30, 2017 Nah, Midway even in 1:1 is ok. You can always position ships closer and I think thats what will happen in multiplayer. I want to see what if scenario on multiplayer with Japanese operating from Midway islands and Americans directing aerial assault. When it comes to size and distances I just cant imagine Okinawa, most of the escorts couldnt make it back then and all too often kamikaze pilots had to enter last stage of flight without any cover. 600 kilometers from Kanoya Air Base to Okinawa is quite a long flight, even by todays standards flights to Okinawa take time. But I've heard its a lovely place for holiday, a tropical island with things to see. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
II/JG17_HerrMurf 2585 Posted January 30, 2017 Best bet for expanded map is Hawaiian island chain. It is fairly large, lots of airfields, and tons of reference material/photos available. Midway plane sets are appropriate/interchangeable for the most part. It would make a #*<{ing FANTASTIC multiplayer map. Add American battleships later because - obvious reasons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
=362nd_FS=Hiromachi 1153 Posted January 30, 2017 That's weird. I somehow like the idea but it still sounds weird. Were there any military airfields built except for Oahu island ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
II/JG17_HerrMurf 2585 Posted January 30, 2017 Yep, although Oahu held the majority, there were airfields scattered throughout the island chain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Airfields_of_the_United_States_Army_Air_Forces_in_Hawaii Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VBF-12_Whitey-78 210 Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) . I hope that VT-8 get's the TBF-1C. They were the first USN Torpedo Squadron to receive them before the BoMY. Only a detachment of VT-8 led by Lt Fieberling operated 6 TBF-1's off of Midway. The main squadron of VT-8 operated 15 TBD-1's led by LCDR Waldron. Unfortunately both parts of VT-8 got slaughtered, with 5 of the 6 TBF-1's getting shot down, along with all 15 TBD-1's. I love both birds, but they were fish in a barrel with no escort Edited January 30, 2017 by 12.OIAE_Whitey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
=362nd_FS=Hiromachi 1153 Posted January 30, 2017 But thats not a problem for a game. I'm up for a TBF as well as D4Y-1 for Japanese (since those in form of 2 were present during the battle on Soryu), for campaign thats not a problem at all since such aircraft would be limited in missions while for multiplayer it doesnt really matter, its up to those who design scenarios for multiplayer missions to set any restrictions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StaB./Tomio_VR*** 142 Posted January 30, 2017 From all those ships, the most important is to have all the different Carriers of the main battle whatever the number of ships modelled In the first Il-2, we had only Akagi for many years for all 1942 carrier battles and it was somewhat pity On American side, we had only Lexington class carriers despite it didn't took part in the battle Only mods bringed us Kaga, Hiryu, Soryu and Yorktown on US side Can we get an idea of the number of different ships expected to be modelled initially jason ? Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason_Williams 22577 Posted January 30, 2017 The number will likely be small and I hope to have a way for 3rd parties to add to it. This is new territory for us and I will once again have a small budget. Jason 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StaB./Tomio_VR*** 142 Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) The number will likely be small and I hope to have a way for 3rd parties to add to it. This is new territory for us and I will once again have a small budget. Jason Then there must be one ship of each type excluding aircraft carriers because it would be really boring to take off from the same carrier each time especially for japanese side which won't have any island... Attacking the same type of carrier every time is also very boring Suggested type of ships to make : AKAGI-KAGA-HIRYU-SORYU-ZUIHO carriers 1 Battleship 1 Cruiser 1 Destroyer 1 Sub 1 Cargo = 10 IJN ships YORKTOWN-HORNET-ENTERPRISE carriers 1 Heavy Cruiser 1 Destroyer 1 Sub 1 Torpedo Boat 1 PT Boat = 8 USN ships Edited January 30, 2017 by 64sTomio Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gambit21 4677 Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) Best bet for expanded map is Hawaiian island chain. It is fairly large, lots of airfields, and tons of reference material/photos available. Midway plane sets are appropriate/interchangeable for the most part. It would make a #*<{ing FANTASTIC multiplayer map. Add American battleships later because - obvious reasons. I like that and would support that idea - especially given the reference. However I'll say again that given the plane set from Midway - we're pretty much at a Guadalcanal/Solomons plane set at that point. So I'd like to at least see some sort of generic map that will allow me to simulate the Solomons and those clashes over Henderson, even if the map is someone small and generic. If Okinawa sticks...then I'll ask to the devs to PLEASE made sure several islands are represented, (not just the big island) and that there are some appropriate airbase locations scattered around the map...even if they're not exactly historical. That way I can simulate a Solomons type engagement with the Midway plane set and extend their utility. I'll just need that Betty...and also an A6M2-N Rufe This is going to be fun any way it shakes out. Edited January 30, 2017 by Gambit21 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Notclear 52 Posted January 30, 2017 But thats not a problem for a game. I'm up for a TBF as well as D4Y-1 for Japanese (since those in form of 2 were present during the battle on Soryu), for campaign thats not a problem at all since such aircraft would be limited in missions while for multiplayer it doesnt really matter, its up to those who design scenarios for multiplayer missions to set any restrictions. Only one D4Y take part to the battle, the other one crash landed before. The 4 June the D4Y do only one recon mission over the US Task forces, the pilot take off from Soryu at 8h32, he send a message who never arrived about the position and composition of the Task Force 16 (Hornet, Enterprise) around 11h. At 13h he is over the Kido Butai, drop a writen message about his discover on the Hiryu (the Soryu is burning) and wait his turn for landing. Some plane are taking off for the second wave against the Yorkown. The D4Y finish his career when the Hiryu is attacked, 4 hours later. This is what I have about the action of the D4Y during battle of Midway, his role probably a little unsignificant to do this plane for the game. But this is a problem of this battle to have planes that we can't see on others theaters, or being unuseful: 4 B26 loaded with torpedoes (one attack, no result), never used in that role after. F2A3 defending Midway, massacred by the A6M2, took of active service (considered as the baddest Buffalo built). 12 SB2U-3 of the VMSB-241 only used in Midway ( the VMSB-241 got 17 SBD-2 too) E7K1 (3 on Haruna and Kirishima, 2 on Tone and Chikuma, total of 10) use for recon E13A1 (3 on Tone and Chikuma, total of 6) use for recon 1 E11A1 on Nagara (used during battle ?) 6 A5M4 on Zuiho (no participation in the battle) 24 F1M2 and 8 others E13A1 Kamikawa Maru and Chitoose (no participation in the battle) If someone got "Shattered Sword The Untold Story of the Battle of Midway", we can learn more about the battle especially for the japanese side. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
=362nd_FS=Hiromachi 1153 Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) The other Judy did not crash land before the battle but suffered issues related to external fuel tank release. Or as it was brought long ago on j-aircraft forums : Motojima is the postwar name of OHBUCHI Keizoh, who was a dive-bomber officer during the war. He was a junior officer in ABE Zenji's kanbaku chutai at Pearl Harbor, and remained as part of CV Akagi's dive-bomber unit up through Indian Ocean. Just prior to Midway, he transferred to Soryu and was assigned to lead its reconn. buntai, and therefore, became directly responsible for the two 13-Shi Carrier Bombers (D4Y). According to his testimony, he test flew one of them (unfortunately he does not identify which one), shortly after leaving port on the Midway operation, with two drop tanks under the wings. One of them hung up and would not release. The way the attachment points were located on these planes, this meant the flaps could not be deployed. But ditching this brand new machine and losing it in the drink was out of the question. Being under strict radio silence, Ohbuchi (Motojima) dropped a message tube on Soryu's flight deck requesting the ship make maximum speed. Soryu cranked up to 34 knots and the D4Y came in hot, without flaps, at 120 knots. It caught the first wire, but it snapped. Fortunately, the second one held. The latter one participated in the battle as you have written and although it did not do much (which is really relative, scout aircraft never do much since they dont deliver blows but on the other hand spotting enemy they can change the tide of battles) it fulfilled its purse - a high speed reconnaissance. Yokosuka Kokutai report following Indian Ocean events recommended assigning six to nine 13-shi (D4Y1) Carrier Bombers aboard each carrier division flagship to operate as high-speed scouts, since air search during Operation C (Indian ocean events) had left something to be desired. Thus, the inclusion of the two D4Ys in Soryu's complement for Midway Invasion was an attempt to meet those recommendations, at least partially. Faulty radio was there a problem, but its not all that relevant to us. What matters is that Japanese do not have any warning radar and without Judy they would lack any high speed machine to scout ahead of the fleet. None of the floatplanes could do so as effectively as Judy could, not to mention their range limits. B5Ns also do not exactly fit into that role. So I'd take into account role this aircraft can play in our game. Not to mention that premium aircraft do not have to be exactly related to campaigns as long as timeframe fits - like Mc. 202 over Moscow or 190 over Stalingrad. I got Shattered Sword and recommended it to many people on forums here, some of them I believe got it. Edited January 30, 2017 by =LD=Hiromachi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gambit21 4677 Posted January 30, 2017 I got Shattered Sword and recommended it to many people on forums here, some of them I believe got it. A must read. An essential bank of knowledge for anyone who even wants to talk about Midway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason_Williams 22577 Posted January 30, 2017 Great video! Jason Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heywooood 80 Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) all I want to know is, will I be able to fly patrols from Wake Island in an F3F Barrel or F4F Wildcat in the near future...? Is that what's happening here? Edited January 31, 2017 by Heywooood Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
=362nd_FS=Hiromachi 1153 Posted January 31, 2017 Not sure about Wake Island and not sure about F3F Barrel, but Midway patrols in Wildcat will be a thing in a reasonable future. You have to wait until Kuban development is complete (apparently somewhere in the end of this year) and then things will be rolling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
216th_Cat 877 Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) Here's the 'definitive' list of opposing forces at Midway that we used for the SEOW campaign in Il-2 46. Ship classes we didn't worry about too much as what was available was pretty generic, but it includes the names of the Japanese Oilers and Transports etc. It is based on a huge amount of research by me; I also made the Midway Expanded map that was used for the campaign. It's in the HSFX mod pack and every building, road, path etc is correctly positioned and of its type as far as the game allowed. It might be worth you taking a look; let me know if you need a copy. EDIT: Bah! It lost all of its formatting. I'll upload the file somewhere if anyone's interested. US OOB TASK FORCE DIVISION Sub-Division Ship Type Ship Name Aircraft/Cargo START 4 June 1942 TASK FORCE 17 Adm. Fletcher Carrier Group TG 17.5 CV CV-5 Yorktown VF-3: 25x F4F-4 VB-3: 18x SBD-3 VS-5: 19x SBD-3 VT-3: 13x TBD-1 Cruiser Group TG17.2 CA CA-34 Astoria CA CA-33 Portland 4x floatplanes Destroyer Squadron TG 17.4 DD DD-412 Hammann DD DD-410 Hughes DD DD-417 Morris DD DD-411 Anderson DD DD-414 Russell DD DD-433 Gwin TASK FORCE 16 R.Adm. Spruance Carrier Group TG 16.5 CV CV-6 Enterprise VF-6: 27x F4F-4 VB-6: 19x SBD-2 & -3 VS-6: 19x SBD-2 & -3 VT-6: 14x TBD-1 CV CV-8 Hornet VF-8: 27x F4F-4 VB-8: 19x SBD-2 & -3 VS-8: 18x SBD-1, -2 & -3 VT-8: 15x TBD-1 Cruiser Group TG16.2 CA CA-32 New Orleans 4x floatplanes CA CA-36 Minneapolis 4x floatplanes CA CA-44 Vincennes 4x floatplanes CA CA-26 Northampton 3x floatplanes CA CA-24 Pensacola 2x floatplanes CL CL-51 Atlanta Destroyer Squadron TG 16.4 DD DD-360 Phelps DD DD-352 Worden DD DD-354 Monaghan DD DD-355 Aylwin Desron 6 DD DD-363 Balch DD DD-371 Conyngham DD DD-397 Benham DD DD-398 Ellet DD DD-401 Maury Oiler Group AO AO-22 Cimarron AO AO-24 Platte DD DD-349 Dewey DD DD-436 Monssen SUBMARINES Midway Patrol Group TG 7.1 SS SS-168 Nautilus SS SS-169 Dolphin SS SS-170 Cachalot SS SS-171 Cuttlefish SS SS-214 Grouper SS SS-229 Flying Fish SS SS-198 Tambor SS SS-202 Trout SS SS-209 Grayling SS SS-210 Grenadier SS SS-211 Gudgeon SS SS-212 Gato MIDWAY LOCAL DEFENSES USMC Motor Torpedo Sqn 1 PT 8x PT Boat (Midway) PT 2x PT Boat (Kure) Hermes Reef Yacht PY-25 Crystal MS AT-144 Vireo Patrol Wing 2 VP-23 11x PBY-5 'Catalina' Bombs VP-44 15X PBY-5A 'Catalina' Bombs VT-8 6x TBF-1 'Avenger' 1x torpedo MARINE AIRCRAFT GROUP (MAG 22) VMF-221 20x F2A-3 'Buffalo' - 6x F4F-3 'Wildcat' - VMSB-241 16x SBD-2 'Dauntless' 1x 500 lb bomb 11x SB2U-3 'Vindicator' 1x 500 lb bomb 7th ARMY AIR FORCE DETACHMENT 18th BS, 22nd BG 2x B-26 'Marauder' 1x torpedo 69th BS, 38th BG 2x B-26B 'Marauder' 1x torpedo 7th AF HQ 1x B-17E 'Flying Fortress' Bombs 42nd BS, 11th BG 4x B-17E 'Flying Fortress' Bombs 431st BS, 11th BG 6x B-17E 'Flying Fortress' Bombs 31st BS, 5th BG 2x B-17E 'Flying Fortress' Bombs 72nd BS, 5th BG 1x B-17E 'Flying Fortress' Bombs 3rd MARINE DEFENSE BATTALION AA Group 8x 37mm AAA Guns 4th MARINE DEFENSE BATTALION @ 200 men Battery A 7" & 3" Guns - Eastern Island Battery B 5" Guns, 12x AAA MGs + MGs Battery C 3" Guns - Sand Island Battery D 3" Guns - Sand Island 6th MARINE DEFENSE BATTALION @1700 men 2nd MARINE RAIDER BATTALION @200 men? Company C Sand Island Company D Eastern Island REINFORCEMENTS MIDWAY RELIEF FUELLING FORCE Midway area 5 June 1942 (from Hawaii) AO AO-32 Guadalupe AvGas DD DD-387 Blue DD DD-390 Ralph Talbot 7th ARMY AIR FORCE DETACHMENT Midway area 5 June 1942 +3 Hours (from Hawaii) 4x LB-30 (B24) 'Liberator' Bombs (Staging through on way to attack Wake Island) IJN OOB TASK FORCE DIVISION Sub-Division Ship Type Ship Name Aircraft/Cargo If Midway Captured 1st Carrier Striking Force Vice-Adm. Nagumo Carrier Group Car.Div 1 CV Akagi 19x A6M2 'Zero'; 18x D3A1 'Val'; 18x B5N2 'Kate'. 9x A6M2 'Zero' CV Kaga 18x A6M2 'Zero'; 18x D3A1 'Val'; 27x B5N2 'Kate'. 9x A6M2 'Zero' Car.Div 2 CV Hiryu 18x A6M2 'Zero'; 18x D3A1 'Val'; 18x B5N2 'Kate'. 9x A6M2 'Zero' CV Soryu 18x A6M2 'Zero'; 18x D3A1 'Val'; 18x B5N2 'Kate'. 9x A6M2 'Zero' (all 6th Kokutai) Support Group Cru.Div 8 CA Tone 3x E13A1 'Jake' CA Chikuma Bat Div.3 (2nd Sect.) BB Haruna 3x E8N2 'Dave' BB Kirishima Screening Force DesRon 10 CL Nagara DesDiv 4 DD Nowaki DD Arashi DD Hagikaze DD Maikaze DesDiv 10 DD Kazagumo DD Yugumo DD Makigumo DesDiv 17 DD Urakzi DD Isokaze DD Tanikaze Supply Group AO Kyokuto Maru AO Shinkoku Maru AO Toho Maru AO Nippon Maru AO Kokuyo Maru DD Agikumo Midway Invasion Force Vice-Adm. Kondo Invasion Force Main Body Cru.Div 4 CA Atago 3x E13A1 'Jake' CA Chokai 3x E13A1 'Jake' Cru.Div 5 CA Myoko CA Haguro Bat Div.3 BB Kongo 3x E8N2 'Dave' BB Hiei Screening Force DesRon 4 CL Yura DesDiv 2/3 DD Murusame DD Samidare DD Harusame DD Yudachi DesDiv 9 DD Asugumo DD Minegumo DD Natsugumo Carrier Group CVL Zuiho 12x A6M2 'Zero'; 12x B5N2 'Kate'. DD Mikozuki Supply Group AO Sata AO Tsurumi AO Genyo Maru AO Kenyo Maru Repair Ship Akashi Midway Occupation Force Close Support Group CruDiv. 7 CA Kumano CA Suzuya CA Mikuma 3x E13A1 'Jake' CA Mogami 3x E13A1 'Jake' DesDiv. 8 DD Asashio DD Arashio AO Nichiei Maru Transport Group Transport Kiyozumi Maru IJA 28th Infantry Regt Transport Keiyo Maru IJA 28th Infantry Regt Transport Zenyo Maru IJA 28th Infantry Regt Transport Goshu Maru No.2 IJA 28th Infantry Regt Transport Toa Maru IJA 28th Infantry Regt Transport Kano Maru IJA 28th Infantry Regt Transport Argentina Maru IJA 11th Construction Btn Transport Hokuriku Maru Transport Brazil Maru Transport Kirishima Maru Transport Azuma Maru Transport Nankai Maru PB Patrol Boat No.1 Landing Craft + Yokosuka Regt, 5th SNLF PB Patrol Boat No.2 Landing Craft + Yokosuka Regt, 5th SNLF PB Patrol Boat No.34 Landing Craft + Yokosuka Regt, 5th SNLF AO Akebono Maru AvGas DesRon 2 CL Jintsu DesDiv. 15 DD Kuroshio DD Oyashio DesDiv. 16 DD Yukikaze DD Amatsukaze DD Tokitsukaze DD Hatsukaze DesDiv. 18 DD Shiranuhi DD Kasumi DD Arare DD Kagero Seaplane Tender Group SeaTen Div. 11 CVS Chitose 12x E13A1 'Jake', 4x F1M2 'Pete' 12x A6M2 'Rufe' AV Kamikawa Maru (802nd Kokutai) DD Hayashio (for Kure Atoll) PB Patrol Boat No.35 Minesweeper Group Minesweepers MS Tama Maru No. 5 MS Tama Maru No. 4 MS Shonan Maru No.7 MS Shonan Maru No.8 Submarine Chasers SC Subchaser No.16 SC Subchaser No.17 SC Subchaser No.18 Supply Ship Supply Soya Cargo Ships Cargo Meiyo Maru Cargo Yamafuku Maru Advance (Submarine) Force (Sixth Fleet) SubSqn 3 SS I-168 REINFORCEMENTS Main Body From Japan Adm. Yamamoto Battleship Group Bat Div. 1 BB Yamato 3x E8N2 'Dave' BB Mutsu BB Nagato 3x E8N2 'Dave' Carrier Group CVL Hosho 8x B4Y1 'Jean' DD Yukaze Special Force CVS Chiyoda Midget Subs CVS Nisshin Midget Subs Screening Force DesRon 3 CL Sendai DesDiv 11 DD Fubuki DD Shirayuki DD Hatsuyuki DD Murakumo DesDiv 19 DD Isonami DD Uranami DD Shikinami DD Ayanami 1st Supply Unit Oiler Naruto Oiler Toei Maru Advance (Submarine) Force (Sixth Fleet) From Laysan Island SubDiv 13 SS I-121 SS I-122 SS I-123 SubSqn 5 SS I-166 Advance (Submarine) Force (Sixth Fleet) From NW of Hawaii SubSqn 5 SS I-158 SS I-159 SS I-162 SS I-165 IF MIDWAY CAPTURED 11th Koku Kantai 22nd Chutai, Mihoro Kokutai 10x G4M1 'Betty' (From Wake Island) 21st Koku Sentai, Toko Kokutai 6x H8K1 'Emily' (From Jaluit) NOTE Each Transport or Patrol Boat carries 500 men, apart from the Construction Bttn, which = 200 men. 9x 500 + 1x 200 = 4,700 men. Edited January 31, 2017 by 216th_Cat 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
=362nd_FS=Hiromachi 1153 Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) CV Soryu 18x A6M2 'Zero'; 18x D3A1 'Val'; 18x B5N2 'Kate'. 9x A6M2 'Zero' It's not entirely definitive since mentioned above two 13-shi D4Y1 are missing from Soryu list. Anyway, very nice job Cat Edited January 31, 2017 by =LD=Hiromachi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
