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When should I be using rudder?


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#41 12.OIAE_Snake9

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 00:52

So not adjusting with rudder will make you a better shot long term.

 

:huh: By all means try both and see what works.   :rolleyes: 

 

. . .

 

Kes

I run with 60% rudder.  I would advise not to have any deadzone in your rudder.  That's what is causing your touchy problem probably.  You always want a nice smooth transition across the whole deflection.  There is no rudder center really when you are flying.  You fly by feel and "step on the ball."  You don't have to look at the ball after a while you'll be able to feel the yaw in the plane and compensate.  This is very important in the 109 because lack of rudder trim.  You'll hardy ever fly rudder centered in the 109 or any other fighter.  So you see there is no reason to have a deadzone.  My opinion about rudder, the stick is used to get close to the target, the rudder is used to aim at the target.  They work hand and hand.  

 

Good luck.     


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Trim still not on axis . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Still? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Really?


#42 =r4t=Sshadow14

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 01:32

thats all good, But once you are on cruising power many fighters need little to no rudder input to stay level.


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#43 unreasonable

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 02:33

:huh: By all means try both and see what works.   :rolleyes:

 

. . .

 

 

 

I have and I shoot much better if I am using the rudder principally to maintain co-ordinated flight. If very small rudder corrections are needed to shoot, fine, but if you are slipping your aim will be off. We may just be quibbling about definitions here.

 

I can see that there might be occasions eg when you are in a life or death scissors when you might have to make a large rudder input to make a shot, but it should be the exception. Using tracers to adjust is also doubtful practice: not that it cannot be done but it is very hard to do well.

 

Here is a translation of a German training aid on shooting for those who do not already have it. Makes the same points.

 

 

Attached File  Horrido.doc   1.6MB   12 downloads


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#44 12.OIAE_Snake9

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 02:21

Yes we are just quibbling.   :)

 

Please don't tell someone new to NOT use rudder to aim.  That's horrifying.   


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Trim still not on axis . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Still? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Really?


#45 12.OIAE_Snake9

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 02:31

thats all good, But once you are on cruising power many fighters need little to no rudder input to stay level.

 

So you screw up your ability to aim with a deadzone so you can cruise around?

 

I can center my rudder with my feet.  It's not hard.  

 

 

 

The amount of bad advice in this thread is amazing.  This is why I don't help new guys.  It's not worth it.  

 

Carry on.  


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Trim still not on axis . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Still? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Really?


#46 =r4t=Sshadow14

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 04:06

No i just think its different with my pedals as they racing pedals (same spring rates and throw range) but they are not linked (Re i can push them both down and i get 0 rudder input )
 


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#47 71st_AH_Scojo

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 11:40

I can center my rudder with my feet.  It's not hard.  

Why not use trim?


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#48 unreasonable

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 12:04

Why not use trim?

 

Very few of our planes have rudder trim.


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#49 71st_AH_Scojo

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 12:30

Very few of our planes have rudder trim.

ohhh I'll have to actually check which ones do, as I only set my trims once and I just thought that the keybind wasn't working for some unknown reason and I never got around to actually trying to "solve" the problem lol

 

Can most pedals not be calibrated? I haven't tried it on mine as they're new and centered, but I know my joystick and throttle can be calibrated


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Of all my accomplishments I may have achieved during the war, I am proudest of the fact that I never lost a wingman.                                           — Colonel Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann, GAF

I mean, I had fast motor cars and fast motor bikes, and when I wasn't crashing airplanes, I was crashing motor bikes. It's all part of the game.      — Sir Harry Broadhurst, RAF, 12 victories WWII

Fighting in the air is not sport. It is scientific murder.                                                                                                                                                    — Captain Edward V. 'Eddie' Rickenbacker, USAS


#50 6./ZG26_5tuka

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 12:48

They can be calibrated. As for setting up custom curves ect, that depends on the model and driver.

A way bigger problem for pedals is physical wear. My 4 year old Saiteks show great wear on the rubber rollers and need to be regreased every month of use to prevent sticktion and reduce further damage.


Edited by 6./ZG26_5tuka, 26 January 2017 - 14:41.

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#51 unreasonable

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 13:08

ohhh I'll have to actually check which ones do, as I only set my trims once and I just thought that the keybind wasn't working for some unknown reason and I never got around to actually trying to "solve" the problem lol

 

Can most pedals not be calibrated? I haven't tried it on mine as they're new and centered, but I know my joystick and throttle can be calibrated

 

The Specifications tab for each aircraft in the Briefing page for a mission will tell you what trim the selected aircraft aircraft can use - as well as just about everything else a pilot needs to know to fly it. Someone (Finkeren I think?) did a complete list but I cannot find it. I cannot remember them all either: better just check the specific plane you want to fly ;)

 

As for calibration - not sure what you mean. My pedals are calibrated in the software set-up (Logitech) to make sure they are working through their full range, also physically adjusted with a dial. In game you can adjust rudder sensitivity and dead-zone in the settings menu. 


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#52 Europa

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 06:58

this is not solely related with rudder use but it is very informative in genereal. For some rudder use in turns you can skip to 6:28. 

My previous information was not clearly understood before and got flamed but this gentlemen explains better than my non-native English.

 

 

youtube.com/watch?v=bbDZIGcfKG0


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#53 =r4t=Sshadow14

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 01:11

Trim is different here to WT.

For most planes it does not magically move the entire control surface.
it only adjusts the trim panel on the wing or tail in the OPPISITE direction to control deflection of said control

flying level with stick while having 100% nose up trim is slower than trimming to fly level without touching the stick
in trash like WT it makes little difference.
But here the same applies to rudder if trimmable (trimming it center and holding it center are 2 diff things )


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#54 andyw248

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 18:10

this is not solely related with rudder use but it is very informative in genereal. For some rudder use in turns you can skip to 6:28. 

My previous information was not clearly understood before and got flamed but this gentlemen explains better than my non-native English.

 

youtube.com/watch?v=bbDZIGcfKG0

 

Thanks for sharing the link, great video!


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#55 307_Tomcat

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 20:34

I would like to see same manuvers  (together with longitudinal roll 6:30) copied correctly in our game.

Edited by 307_Tomcat, 05 February 2017 - 20:34.

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