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Junkers 52 "Tante Ju" /Lisunov Li2/C47 ❤️Fan Club & Help

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44 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

Zach, experience isn't always a good indicator if things were really bad after things went south. 

That is scary, is it? My experience is that often the best and the worst get wasted. The others just bend metal, but usually don‘t dare venturing in very dangerous situations.

 

46 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

What is more interesting is that the experienced crew obviously tried to cross the pass at a very blunt angle (less than 45° is usually taught and done), at very high ambient temperatures (around ISA +20°C) and from the leeside into the upwind-sector of the mountain, which will produce significant downdrafts prior to crossing the ridge.

This is what they did for years. They got used to pull stunts like that „because it always worked“. Just two weeks before, that plane went to Bozen (Italy) on a similar charter flight. Aboard was another instructor pilot. He said of that trip back north that he was exteremely uncomfortable how low they managed to cross the passes back direction north, at that very altitude.

 

Piz Segnas is a very dangerous corner to fly. Just the day before a friend of mine crossed the Alps in his Bücker to Locarno and he didn‘t dare to cross that pass back direction north, despite the aircraft having a new and powerful engine. It just wouldn‘t climb anymore unles in a thermal on the sunny side of th valley.

 

They should never have gotten near that ridge. 

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3 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

They should never have gotten near that ridge. 

I agree that pilot error seems most likely responsible for that, expirienced or not. Flying on the edge of performence always bears great risks of exeeding it.

That being said, I have highest respect for Ju Air and their pilots.

 

Hopefully this will not happen ever again.

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I took a moment to look upon the peaks of the Piz Segnas this morning, and quietly reflect upon the unfortunate events of Friday.

 

This quick snap was taken with my phone and shows the opposite side as seen from Elm, Steinibach. To me I have always imagined that these jagged peaks look like the discarded lower jaw from some giant prehistoric beast.

 

 

Piz Segnas.jpg

Edited by spudkopf
grammer
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7 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

Climate change really needs to redress safety margins for aviation in these parts. What was still safe 30 years ago will get you killed today.

 

I would not attribute these aviation tragedies to climate change. Why? Because there is no evidence that summer weather in this part of the world has changed "drastically". Want some evidence? Here:

 

-Hottest recorded temperature in Europe was in 1977 (40 years ago)

-Since ~1900 the earth's mean surface temperature has increased by 0.9 degrees Celsius on average (some places more, some places less)

 

The notion that climate change (including human-caused) caused these events is preposterous, just as it is preposterous to claim that wildfires broadcast daily by the media are caused by climate change. The "experts" making these claims are shameless tools.

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7 minutes ago, Pericles said:

 

I would not attribute these aviation tragedies to climate change. Why? Because there is no evidence that summer weather in this part of the world has changed "drastically". Want some evidence? Here:

 

-Hottest recorded temperature in Europe was in 1977 (40 years ago)

-Since ~1900 the earth's mean surface temperature has increased by 0.9 degrees Celsius on average (some places more, some places less)

 

The notion that climate change (including human-caused) caused these events is preposterous, just as it is preposterous to claim that wildfires broadcast daily by the media are caused by climate change. The "experts" making these claims are shameless tools.

Ehm, I see that I touched a controversial topic. But if you think that the gaciers in the Alps are gone by now to a large degree (and you will live to see most of them all gone) because they hate us (or whatever), that is ok with me. Also plants that in the last 20 years started to grow in places that they never did for the last 100 before that, maybe they just feel adventurous.

 

For the purpose of the discussion just that, it was a hot day and the plane went down.

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My guess as others have said would be that they tried to get over but could not because of hot weather and head wind. They realised that they would not make it turned at low speed to get around in the gap. The head wind component would have changed to a tail wind during the turn causing a further loss of airspeed and if that was not enough to cause a stall a gust would have done it if they had low excess airspeed. 

 

Such a shame let's hope somthing is learnt or realised as an outcome. 

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53 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

Ehm, I see that I touched a controversial topic. But if you think that the gaciers in the Alps are gone by now to a large degree (and you will live to see most of them all gone) because they hate us (or whatever), that is ok with me. Also plants that in the last 20 years started to grow in places that they never did for the last 100 before that, maybe they just feel adventurous.

 

For the purpose of the discussion just that, it was a hot day and the plane went down.

 

I would never deny that Alpen glaciers are receding or that plants are growing more than before - those are facts. The only potential causes of these changes are warmer temperatures and more CO2 in the air. So we're on the same page. 

 

But it is folly to see this as a "crisis' or to attribute aviation disasters to climate change. 

 

JU-AIR and the pilot(s) are to blame for this disaster. 

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31 minutes ago, AeroAce said:

My guess as others have said would be that they tried to get over but could not because of hot weather and head wind. They realised that they would not make it turned at low speed to get around in the gap. The head wind component would have changed to a tail wind during the turn causing a further loss of airspeed and if that was not enough to cause a stall a gust would have done it if they had low excess airspeed. 

 

Such a shame let's hope somthing is learnt or realised as an outcome. 

It is worse than just tailwind, it is also downwind. You have to imagine the place like a 1000 meter wall. If the wind comes from north, you better have ample reserves crossing it direction north. Any of those high crossings can be wicked places.

28 minutes ago, Pericles said:

But it is folly to see this as a "crisis' or to attribute aviation disasters to climate change. 

No matter the weather, it is indeed up to the pilot doing the right thing. I was merely referring to habits vs. experience in unexpected situations.

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People like us very often "flying" in extreme conditions, near stall, etc. are probably more inclined to react appropriately. How is the plane stall recovery in the game?

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Ju Air just announced that they plan to resume operations in the next 10 days. Also the BAZL (the federal authorities) did at no time ground the airline and also no one found anything wrong with those aircraft. Although no cause of the accident was stated, it makes the sad reason for the accident abundantly clear.

 

Ju Air receives still a lot of sympathy from the general public.

 

On a sidenote, of the four Ju52 received originally, three were original Junkers (1939) built aircraft (HB-HOT being one of them) and the fourth being a CASA built model (1949), it being HB-HOY with the „Rimowa“ luggage livery. It is now stationed in Mönchengladbach, not in flyable condition.

 

Last year, they found the main wing spar suffering from corrosion and it will need a new main wingspar, costing >1 mio. USD. Alas, that find prompted them to check „the certainly better German built“ (an not left to rot for decades on the Hangar roof of Dubendorf airport) Ju‘s as well and they found similar corrosion. Something that is due for this type after 10’000 hours. As if they were ever built to last that long... Eventually, they will need replaced spars to be kept in flyable condition.

 

But looking at the website of the German Ju 52 charter flights, it seems that HB-HOY can be restored thanks to widespread sympathy of the public.

 

 

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Hi everybody,

Thank you for expressing yourself and RIP to all 20 occupant. Note that is accident happened shortly after 2 light plane crash : a TB10 (the Pilatus test chef pilot with its family 4 dead) and a DR400 (4 dead) . Such deadly summer for general aviation.😥

If you like me are a real life pilot , I wish you safe flights and becoming an "old pilot"

 

This being said, Back to our virtual Tante Ju

I have updated the original post:

I added a History section: here you can see all the timeline in our simulator. See the evolution, mentions in Dev diary and even mentions in Q&A

I also updated the defense section thanks to my experience, please check it out!

 

About the Q&A on reddit https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uXBkq7U2MmcEwvNLkB2MkKNLkcAMl0em5Arq4Zn68bA/edit

The Li2 will be make if Po2 successful. Then a C47 will come.

Theses are fantastic news I expected!😍

 

Here is a screen I had difficulty to make. I wish the cabin can be modeled so we have passenger view.

 

 

Il-2 2018-07-26 23-32-24-03.jpg

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Check out this post on PPRuNe - it shows the box-canyon shortly before and shortly after the accident. You can actually see the wreckage (tiny) on the zoomed-up screnshot:

 

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/611836-4th-aug-2018-junkers-ju52-crashed-switzerland-8.html#post10217407

 

Slightly further down we get a picture that supposedly shows the the aircraft on the day of the crash:

 

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/611836-4th-aug-2018-junkers-ju52-crashed-switzerland-8.html#post10217574

 

If that is true, this would have been a classical stall-spin while performing a 180 out of a box-canyon you realize you can't get over.

 

=====

 

Looking forward to flying the transports. It would be cool to have one or two maps on top of that (like "The Hump") to give a real challenge flying heavily laden transports into crazily short airstrips carved out of the jungle.

 

Edited by Bremspropeller
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Question does our Ju 52 model have autopilot?

 

Internet says:

Among the primary manufacturing models, the Ju 52/3mg7e, offered larger cabin doors along with other detail improve­ments, and it was provided with an autopilot.

 

 

 

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@Godspeed the version Ju52/3m g7e is posterior than our version which is Ju52/3m g4e, so no autopilot.

 

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11 hours ago, Godspeed said:

Question does our Ju 52 model have autopilot?

 

Internet says:

Among the primary manufacturing models, the Ju 52/3mg7e, offered larger cabin doors along with other detail improve­ments, and it was provided with an autopilot.

 

 

 

 

CTRL-A :)

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4 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

CTRL-A :)

 

Yes but i only use it on planes that really have it like Bf 110.

 

Maybe Ju52 could be considered in my mind exception since i can think that the co-pilot is flying.

 

Edited by Godspeed
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1 hour ago, Godspeed said:

 

Yes but i only use it on planes that really have it like Bf 110.

 

Maybe Ju52 could be considered in my mind exception since i can think that the co-pilot is flying.

 

 

More seriously, what did autopilot act like on a WWII plane.  Straight and level or something more sophisticated than that?

Edited by PatrickAWlson
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4 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

More seriously, what did autopilot act like on a WWII plane.  Straight and level or something more sophisticated than that?

 

I suspect that the Ju 52 autopilot was similar to most others of its era: it will have controlled the aircraft pitch and roll attitude and heading, via input from gyroscopes. So 'straight and level', with no direct altitude control. Properly set up (i.e. with the aircraft trimmed before turning it on), it would probably hold altitude reasonably well, despite having no input from the altimeter, but you would still have to monitor the instruments, and make regular adjustments for gyroscopic drift etc.

 

There is further discussion of WW2 autopilots in this thread:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/35796-bf-110-autopilot-question/?tab=comments#comment-604669

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The german 'Kurssteuerung' controlled the heading through an electric rudder machine, while the pilot had to hold the plane horizontally by using elevator and aileron.

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My first Air Kill with the Junkers 52 on FNBF!

After being shot many times, it feels so good!

I trained countless hours on the gunner position.

Hope you like it! Never give up!!

 

Edited by TG1_Nil
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32 minutes ago, TG1_Nil said:

My first Air Kill with the Junkers 52 on FNBF!

After being shot many times, it feels so good!

I trained countless hours on the gunner position.

Hope you like it! Never give up!!

 

 

Good to know that you were in the gunner pos and it wasn't AI that got Pod. From our end...Hey there's a Ju52... ok go get it...  he's got me!   Funny as you like :biggrin:

 

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@216th_Cat So it was you! you are so mean! you killed my trusty buddy Gunner Fritz!

But his sacrifice is not vain! 

He was shooting until the end...

😭

Poor Fritz, I will miss him.

He protected us and saved us.

Perhaps the true heroes are those who are dead.

War is so cruel.

Edited by TG1_Nil

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You guys should make a Ju 52 server. With a kessel, and constant kessel runs against Soviet fighters and the like. 

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20 hours ago, TG1_Nil said:

My first Air Kill with the Junkers 52 on FNBF!

After being shot many times, it feels so good!

I trained countless hours on the gunner position.

Hope you like it! Never give up!!

 

 

Good shooting... the gunner did his duty!

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Look at what Daidalos team are working for Il2 1946

I like that they modelled the interior.

I wish we have one modelled !

Do you like it guys?

Note they will rework the exterior model.

More pic of their work here https://vk.com/club120670117

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Edited by TG1_Nil
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@angus26 Absolutly! Daidalos team are very talented. I wish they would contribute for Il2 great battles

@EAF_Starfire @-IRRE-Therion @angus26 and @LukeFF thanks for your support! I love when people are enjoying my contribution.

 

Here are some pictures of the Li2, L2D and C47 of Daidalos Team for a future il2 1946 patch 

 

I post it here because I really believe it is an amazing job. Love those cockpits!!

 

My favorite picuture: the comparaison between simulator and reality! Amazing!!

Don't you think so?


DWrokY4LCZk.thumb.jpg.be764d873273d7dd50495bd7f1699638.jpg of Daidalos

 

 

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Edited by TG1_Nil
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I wish you could look behind when in ju52, open door, damage in cockpit would be great too.

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6 hours ago, TG1_Nil said:
Quote

 

@angus26 Absolutly! Daidalos team are very talented. I wish they would contribute for Il2 great battles

@EAF_Starfire @-IRRE-Therion @angus26 and @LukeFF thanks for your support! I love when people are enjoying my contribution.

 

 

I don't have to anything to contribute with on this thread, but I really enjoy reading the thing that get postet.

So whenever I see something I enjoy I try and show my appreciation😁

 

 

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3 hours ago, InProgress said:

I wish you could look behind when in ju52, open door, damage in cockpit would be great too.

I wish too, Tante Ju seems somewhat not complete without that.

Moreover, it is neat to see if we have paras/canisters/cargo.

 

Sometimes I ask myself :

"Do I have the cargo before take off?🤔

Oh crap, I can not see what I have because of this closed door!!

Why do we need to keep the door closed??🤨

Andreas Lubitz is not even born!!"😀

 

1 minute ago, EAF_Starfire said:

So whenever I see something I enjoy I try and show my appreciation

 

That is enough to make my day! love when people enjoy content on this topic!

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Hi friends!

Thanks to last FNBF  mission, I learned a useful tip:

Always keep in mind we are visible by anybody when we are on the ground.

Solution: if you are attacked while on the ground do NOT take off, just finish the mission.

Preferably ask for cover before landing.

Can you spot 2 Tante Ju on the airfield? 

The Yak pilot can easily!

 

IL-2  Sturmovik  Battle of Stalingrad Screenshot 2018.09.14 - 23.12.55.14.jpg

Edited by TG1_Nil

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Ju 52 with the cargo load and about 35 % fuel has serious trouble climbing, heck even staying airborne, and not blowing up the engines. Even when close to sea level

 

Any tips?

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1 minute ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

Ju 52 with the cargo load and about 35 % fuel has serious trouble climbing, heck even staying airborne, and not blowing up the engines. Even when close to sea level

 

Any tips?

 

Really? I have no trouble climbing with at least 50 % fuel and cargo load-out. Have you opened up both the cowl shutters and the oil radiators? 

 

Grt M

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11 minutes ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

Ju 52 with the cargo load and about 35 % fuel has serious trouble climbing, heck even staying airborne, and not blowing up the engines. Even when close to sea level

 

Any tips?

I always play full load and full fuel.

I never had such problem.

Tante Ju is an excellent transport plane!

Make sure to keep the radiator opens (oil and cowl) at all time.

Normal cruise: 88% power, Fast cruise: 94% power.

Please Let us know if it works!

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36 minutes ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

Ju 52 with the cargo load and about 35 % fuel has serious trouble climbing, heck even staying airborne, and not blowing up the engines. Even when close to sea level

 

Any tips?

 

Make sure you use the mixture lever correctly - in the JU52 mixture lever is used as "Höhengas" and gives you an extra boost on high altitudes. Do not use it on low

and medium altitudes (<3000m?), just when you start to take-off.

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3 hours ago, I./ZG1_Martijnvdm said:

 

Really? I have no trouble climbing with at least 50 % fuel and cargo load-out. Have you opened up both the cowl shutters and the oil radiators? 

 

Grt M

 

I have been informed that mapping to controls and opening the cowl shutters did the trick! :)

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7 hours ago, TG1_Nil said:

Can you spot 2 Tante Ju on the airfield? 

 

So have you found the answer?

here it is: 😀

Spoiler

1865182284_IL-2SturmovikBattleofStalingradScreenshot2018_09.14-23_12_55.14answer.thumb.jpg.de3817229b989854456916a1d5cbb66a.jpg

If you have found them, you are good!

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Does anyone have a Ju-52 Aeroflot skin that will work with the current IL2 version? If so, could you kindly post a link to the skin. I have a Ju-52 Aeroflot skin that was made by one of the players some time ago, but it doesn't seem to work correctly. I have searched Google and performed an IL2 forum search for the skin. I have only been able to find the old Aeroflot skin that currently doesn't work correctly. Thank you for your consideration of my request, Ju-52 fans! 

Edited by NewGuy_
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@NewGuy_Thank you for posting and welcome! I have the same problem as you, the Aeroflot skin does not work anymore. Maybe we can ask a Skinner to do one?

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