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Jason_Williams

Discussion about 1CGS - TF CLOD Cooperation Announcement

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For those giving me kudos, thanks. However, I am not the one making final decisions on this topic so much credit goes to them. I have indeed had a role to play putting it together and I'm happy for that, but I cannot take all credit. Also, I am not a producer for TF now. I still work for 1C-777 only.

 

My overriding belief is that for the genre to re-bound we need multiple products being made with as much content as possible and each one offering something slightly different driving innovation. As I have said many times, if everyone who bought the original IL-2, bought our product, we'd have enough money to make everything you want. That's not reality though so we need to think outside the box.

 

And there is no practical way to merge the two engines and teams, so the best answer to the allow each team to pursue their vision and look at the results. The deal that was put together is about as win-win as can be expected.

 

Jason

Nevertheless, your name surely will go down in Il-2 and flight sim history as one the great men who brought us from the brink of extinction into a new golden age. Maybe we can add the face of Jason Williams to Mount Rushmore :)

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Sincerely, I hope your dream will never come true.
 
CoD is CoD, BOS is BOS, distinguished games, and I hope it stay that way.
 
CoD with your engine and your flight model, and BOS with yours.

 

As a player of both sims,my only real disappointment with BoS et al, is the limited number of planes that can be in a mission at one time  ( perhaps the new DX upgrade will change this?) In CloD there is the possibility for many many large formations in the sky in different locations at the same time, and if you wish you can switch from side to side ,aircraft to aircraft at any time ,and you can view any or all static objects ( for great screen shots) at any time. So........what I wonder about would these very nice features disappear if CloD were to change to the BoS engine? Oh you can also move the map around & change magnification, something I haven't figured out how to do in BoS et al... :huh:

Having said all this I really do think this is good news!

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hi Jason,

 

you do a great Job!! Enjoyed your Teamspeak Sessions in the past. Not self-evident that you do that for us.

 

I understand that´s not easy for you to make it right for everyone. 

 

Greets,

Rote

 

For those giving me kudos, thanks. However, I am not the one making final decisions on this topic so much credit goes to them. I have indeed had a role to play putting it together and I'm happy for that, but I cannot take all credit. Also, I am not a producer for TF now. I still work for 1C-777 only.

 

My overriding belief is that for the genre to re-bound we need multiple products being made with as much content as possible and each one offering something slightly different driving innovation. As I have said many times, if everyone who bought the original IL-2, bought our product, we'd have enough money to make everything you want. That's not reality though so we need to think outside the box.

 

And there is no practical way to merge the two engines and teams, so the best answer to the allow each team to pursue their vision and look at the results. The deal that was put together is about as win-win as can be expected.

 

Jason

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This is GREAT news. The only thing that gave me pause with CoD and it's future was that they did not have the code. Now that  they have the code.. and there is a commercial aspect to this that will make TF just like any other development team rather than a skilled team of modders wiuth good intentions.. the sky is the limit. This is the best news to happen to flight sims in my opinion since the initial announcement of BoS. 

 

Nicely done 1CGS...  very nicely done. 

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Unpopular opinion time:

 

This is bad business for 1CGS. Giving consumers a reason to stick with CLOD and not to move to the new sim is going to hurt sales, not help.

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senseless decision. But interesting at this time...

 

if dcs normandy 2.5 map is out, then clod is history.

Dcs Spit 9 is the best what I ever see...

 

wont buy any content for clod in future. dont need a third fly sim...

 

For me:

 

- Il2 BOx for quick an dirty play, for having fast fun

- DCS to know what I fly and understand background on Planes. 

 

not trolling here...

 

 

Would make more sense if you were trolling actually......  ;)

 

You may not want a 3rd flight sim, your choice, although I imagine that at least in the short term there will be no duplication of theatre so all that you will be doing is excluding yourself from some key battles.

 

I also wish to point out that DCS will have zero chance of knocking COD (as if that is their intention....) purely because although it is a fantastic and complimentary flight sim it is a near hopeless MMO battle sim. It was designed for post war jet simulation and never intended to support the large air battles of WW2. At ACG we support all sims, our members fly in both IL2 BOS, Falcon BMS, DCS and IL2 COD, and we run servers in all of these, some pop up some not (slight inaccuracy, we don't yet run one in BOS but it's we have hardware available should any members wish to run a server) however it is only IL2 COD which allows us to do what we need to do and that is support 3+ hours long campaigns with 100 aircraft in the skies constantly plus all the stuff on the ground and our multiple bespoke tools which hook into the brilliant COD API (here if I may plug).  DCS cannot get near this for numbers and according to the conversation I had with Veao developers at Duxford this year it is unlikely to change in even the medium term for difficult technical reasons.

 

ACG and our 190+ active pilots (and growing) will be moving happily into the MTO with COD.

 

 

I'll sign off with a big thumbs up from ACG for this announcement and a Merry Christmas and prosperous new year to Jason and his team, and the BOS community as a whole.

 

~S~

Unpopular opinion time:

 

This is bad business for 1CGS. Giving consumers a reason to stick with CLOD and not to move to the new sim is going to hurt sales, not help.

 

 

I don't think so, many of our members have already expressed an interest in buying BOS/BOM etc and upgrading purely on the basis of this fine collaboration.  And "new sim"?  What is that?

Edited by Osprey
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This is bad business for 1CGS. Giving consumers a reason to stick with CLOD and not to move to the new sim is going to hurt sales, not help.

 

I don't see how it is as 1C own both sims once again. Also being different theatres it  give more options and surely makes good business sense for 1C to have control of both?

 

 

 

It will take a lot to bring me back to COD.

Indeed.

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Amazing and incredible news. Very pleased to hear it. After the saga of the last 5 years since CloD release to finally have this possibility - wow!!

 

CloD has been off my PC for a couple of years now, but I've been following Team Fusion's progress and looking forward to giving TF5 a try when it is released. With the possibility of access to the source code I hope CloD will become the definitive Battle of Britain sim that I was hoping for from the very beginning.

 

What a week!! Now I've really got to get that new video card sorted out.

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With all due respect to Jason if BoS didn't cost 5 times as much as the original IL-2 with all of the $20 planes as many people might have bought BoS.

 

Registered over here today because of the announcement. Great news for the WWII sim community.  I wish both teams the best of luck.

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Fantastic news! Even though I would have preferred the integration of Clod into BoS. 

very bad idea, people flying COD does so because of they like it like it is and how it will become, do not mess with that. 

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Unpopular opinion time:

 

This is bad business for 1CGS. Giving consumers a reason to stick with CLOD and not to move to the new sim is going to hurt sales, not help.

 

The CLOD debacle has already hurt sales due mainly to those that boycotted our product because of politics, rumors, arguments, unlocks and other crap including us not giving TF the source code earlier. And we already compete with ROF, 1946, DCS, WT, FSX, P3D and several others. The only way to grab new customers is to:

 

1. Erase the bullshit political divide that plagues this community and genre.

2. Make a better product.

 

We're doing both and forcing players into one path has already proven to be not good for any hardcore sim product. You don't see the things I see.

 

Jason

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As I have said many times, if everyone who bought the original IL-2, bought our product, we'd have enough money to make everything you want. That's not reality though so we need to think outside the box.

 

What you guys did , is a major leap towards the community. And the increase of ambitions shown in latest patch. I am in several forums and Facebook groups, BOS series is a dream for VR users , I think you will have a boost in customer count when this game is VR compatible. And this handout , will also make people reconsider 

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Simply breath-taking news,

 

I can't believe we're finally actually going to see this happen, it's like a dream come true.

 

I absolutely love BoX and although I haven't played CoD for a while it still holds an interest for me, especially with Team Fusions fantastic mods. I think it's a fantastic outcome for our chosen genre of simming and for the people who enjoy flying.

 

Thanks to all involved.

 

This really is the best Christmas present ever.

 

Merry Christmas!!!!

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The CLOD debacle has already hurt sales due mainly to those that boycotted our product because of politics, rumors, arguments, unlocks and other crap including us not giving TF the source code earlier. And we already compete with ROF, 1946, DCS, WT, FSX, P3D and several others. The only way to grab new customers is to:

 

1. Erase the bullshit political divide that plagues this community and genre.

2. Make a better product.

 

We're doing both and forcing players into one path has already proven to be not good for any hardcore sim product. You don't see the things I see.

 

Jason

I'd argue you only competed with DCS, aka the only other credible WWII sim in town. 1946 was great but is now starting to really show its age. Until now, CLOD was the red-headed stepchild, and I still think it's a mistake to elevate them to peer status. Should have let it die in ignominy.

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The CLOD debacle has already hurt sales due mainly to those that boycotted our product because of politics, rumors, arguments, unlocks and other crap including us not giving TF the source code earlier. And we already compete with ROF, 1946, DCS, WT, FSX, P3D and several others. The only way to grab new customers is to:

 

1. Erase the bullshit political divide that plagues this community and genre.

2. Make a better product.

 

We're doing both and forcing players into one path has already proven to be not good for any hardcore sim product. You don't see the things I see.

 

Jason

 

Well said! :salute:

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And we already compete with ROF, 1946, DCS, WT, FSX, P3D and several others
 

I dont think WT is competition. Its a complete different target group. Competing with WT is more like competing with Counter Strike or any other esport stuff :D

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Anything with airplanes is competition and those users are potential customers even if a remote possibility. Even if the crossover is 1% from various sources it adds up. Not everyone segments themselves and supports only one game. Also, we compete in different areas. Visuals, sound, FMs, Content etc. Any one appealing feature may bring a new customer. Some of you are only looking at "type of product" a the key ingredient. I will never win over most WT, DCS, FSX or other products users, I just need some and my core audience we've already built. The problem is many in the core audience, all the shit talking about us and our product due to closing CLOD and Unlocks didn't do us any favors. I have 16 months to change that or die basically.

 

Help me or leave me alone is all I ask.

 

Jason

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I dont think WT is competition. Its a complete different target group. Competing with WT is more like competing with Counter Strike or any other esport stuff :D

I think they compete with WT in the graphical area. Kids get into WT easily and when they want to graduate to something with more substance, they don't want to downgrade from the nice WT eye candy.

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I wish that source code of Rise of Flight would have been released to someones who could do something similar as TF team is doing for Clod.

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Incredible news !!

 

I was very interested in CLOD when it first came out (although disappointed they went "back" to BoB instead of the MTO then), but I couldn't get past some of the problems and shelved it many years ago.. Have heard good things about TF's efforts though, and if this latest initiative is what it takes to get to the MTO before I'm too old to enjoy it then I'm all in for sure!

 

Congratulations and best of luck to both teams for making this work out!

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I'd argue you only competed with DCS, aka the only other credible WWII sim in town. 1946 was great but is now starting to really show its age. Until now, CLOD was the red-headed stepchild, and I still think it's a mistake to elevate them to peer status. Should have let it die in ignominy.

 

That attitude shows pretty well the split and in-fighting within CFS community (if it even is a single community anymore) that 1CGS try to end. Even if we agree CloD is the Daikatana of flight sims genre, there is quite a lot of entrenched simmers who are very attached to that product, refuse to have anything to do with BoX and very actively try to dissuade people from trying BoX. Suscribe to BoS forum on steam. You will see several "this item has been removed" threads daily there. Simply put, it has enough players behind it to constitute a competition, and causes enough bad blood to do something about. 

 

Personally, I'm with Space Ghost, it will take a lot to bring me back to CloD. Like, change of physics engine or a good career mode. And I would very much prefer to have a proper North African theater done by 1CGS using Digital Nature than this. BUT reconcilation with that other group of flight simmers is much more important in long run. Having separate theaters will make the games complement each other rather than compete, and removing points of conflict and making both developers form a common front will make it much harder for trolls to rationalise their agenda. 

 

Are we going to get a CloD forum here, Jason, to bring player groups together and help them introduce each other to both procucts, both ways? Or is store going to be only connection point?

 

1C Game Studios is excited to announce that we have reached an agreement in principle to cooperate with Team Fusion on future commercial development of IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover

 

 

Now, if you only reached agreement with your 777 selves on future commercial development of Rise of Flight :salute: ...

Edited by Trupobaw

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I did purchase this game but have never been able to make it run to my satisfaction as I play on Alienware lap top and the graphics are shit for that some only. I hope this would be corrected

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Hi Osprey,

 

 

>>You may not want a 3rd flight sim, your choice,......

 

for sure - but its very annoying to pay for 3 Sim´s. And each Sim´s has its only special features.

Make no sense to me. Its the same discussion between Xplane and Prepar3d.

 

 

>>there will be no duplication of theatre so all....

 

The level of Detail is another than IL2 COD and IL2 BOS.  It takes a lot of time to realize them.

Not sure whether they plan to create an Afrika Map.

But you can compare Normandy with Channel Map of COD later. We will see what happen...

 

 

>> ...DCS cannot get near this for numbers and according to the conversation ...

 

I notice that DCS improved a lot in the past. if 2.5 is out, there is no parallel developement anymore.

I think the time will come where the DCS Engine will expand their limitations and overwhelm the old COD Engine.

Okay, this needs CpuCore where you can place your threads. But 8 Core Cpu´s will be there...

 

COD doesnt simulate this level of detail (FM,Procedures,Complex Engine Management) as DCS does.

So it´s not suprising that it can handle more planes during a Multiplayer Session. I like to fight player vs player

to find out who is better and to have a most possible realistic Plane where I must watch and manage my Engine,

Speed, Flaps, Ruders during the fight.

 

In my Opinion the online fights in IL2 are too fast. For me it isnt realistic. Unfortunately, G values cant be simulated.

I am sure, if you are flying with G Forces the fight will slow down a lot.

 

But this will end into a fanboy discussion. So i think each of us has its own opinion   :)

 

Greets,

Rote

 

 

Would make more sense if you were trolling actually......  ;)

 

You may not want a 3rd flight sim, your choice, although I imagine that at least in the short term there will be no duplication of theatre so all that you will be doing is excluding yourself from some key battles.

 

I also wish to point out that DCS will have zero chance of knocking COD (as if that is their intention....) purely because although it is a fantastic and complimentary flight sim it is a near hopeless MMO battle sim. It was designed for post war jet simulation and never intended to support the large air battles of WW2. At ACG we support all sims, our members fly in both IL2 BOS, Falcon BMS, DCS and IL2 COD, and we run servers in all of these, some pop up some not (slight inaccuracy, we don't yet run one in BOS but it's we have hardware available should any members wish to run a server) however it is only IL2 COD which allows us to do what we need to do and that is support 3+ hours long campaigns with 100 aircraft in the skies constantly plus all the stuff on the ground and our multiple bespoke tools which hook into the brilliant COD API (here if I may plug).  DCS cannot get near this for numbers and according to the conversation I had with Veao developers at Duxford this year it is unlikely to change in even the medium term for difficult technical reasons.

 

ACG and our 190+ active pilots (and growing) will be moving happily into the MTO with COD.

 

 

I'll sign off with a big thumbs up from ACG for this announcement and a Merry Christmas and prosperous new year to Jason and his team, and the BOS community as a whole.

 

~S~


 

 

I don't think so, many of our members have already expressed an interest in buying BOS/BOM etc and upgrading purely on the basis of this fine collaboration.  And "new sim"?  What is that?

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Great news.

 

I will however feel slightly sickened by the outpouring of goodwill that will come from those that absolutely pilloried 1C and Jason in the past.  But then it is time to let it go.

 

I will also raise a glass in TFs direction and salute not only their past efforts but also those to come.

 

S!

 

von Tom

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Unpopular opinion time:

 

This is bad business for 1CGS. Giving consumers a reason to stick with CLOD and not to move to the new sim is going to hurt sales, not help.

First off this is great news but...the majority of the CLOD community that I flew with has already made the switch to newer sims. CLOD isn't 46' and never will have the variety that the original had, hence squads still play it today. There will be the few that continue to hold on, but timing in development is key, and that timing has passed IMO. I'm sure the NDA between the two groups prevents anytype of direct competition. On top of this a re-release even at 29.99 USD would bring in a nice cash infusion to the BOS devs, not to mention the positive PR within our community. Overall a win win for the community. I just caution people to manage their expectations that CLOD will be a 1946 sucessor yet only to be dissapointed.

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This was probably the smartest move ever on 1CGS by releasing the source code and getting in the Team Fusion to pull back us keen CloD dissapointed customers/aviators to be as one big happy family on IL-2 genre.

​This wise decision gave me a confidence that you have the wits and means to direct this diverse endeavour to meet the customer base needs and wishes in the long run. I am confident to back you up guys by knowing the future will be catered with awesome things served by you. :)

I would like to offer my commendation and solemn thank you of your exceptionally impressive work you have done so far. Keep up the good work!

 

Your avid customer, the Finnish Flight Squadron nr. 32 - LLv32_Damixu

 

I'll stick with you guys in the long haul...

Edited by LLv32_Damixu
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With all due respect to Jason if BoS didn't cost 5 times as much as the original IL-2 with all of the $20 planes as many people might have bought BoS.

 

Registered over here today because of the announcement. Great news for the WWII sim community.  I wish both teams the best of luck.

 

I don't understand how this is even an argument. The new IL-2 has so much higher fidelity than was ever possible in 1946, hence why more resources and time needs to be spent on each plane to get them to match the customers modern expectations. So in reality you're not paying more for less, at least not if you want quality and accuracy. Compare these prices to the modules for DCS and it's almost starting to look cheap.

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Thank you, this is a news which i couldn't imagine would happen in the next 10 years. To the people involved in this, you earned my greatest respect.

 

Personally you understand and share one thing in common , the fascination of flying these machines.

 

 

S!

 

MiK

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