Jump to content

TrackIR and FFB working together cause terrible stuttering.


Recommended Posts

I noticed something new !   the stuttering is affected by the filtering of the Joystick !    at 100%   the smoothness of the track IR is affected !   and when the TrackIR shakes it caused the joystick to shake !   Its like there is a confusion in the game between the Axes of the Joy and the TrackIR...

 

I hope this will help !

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

 

We're not ignoring anyone. Don't be a jerk. We've looked at this and did much testing. It's NOT an easy problem to nail down. 

 

I'll let Han explain the situation in a translated text.

 

The translation follows
In short, MSFFB2+TIR5 stutters problem appeared because of the increased performance (weird, yes).
 
Stutters while using MSFFB2+TIR5 (it should be noted that the game performance is fine, it's the view turning that stutters) were in RoF too, but they were almost unnoticeable. They were so faint that only now, when we faced this view stuttering problem with MSFFB2+TIR5, we understood what's going on and found out the parameters and settings required to reproduce it in RoF.
 
This problem was in IL-2 before moving to DirectX 11 and subsequent optimizations, but it was a minor issue as well.
 
The pattern of these stutters and the fact that they happen only while using MSFFB2 (and not with FFB Logitech G940 for example) tells us that the problem is in inconsistency of the data flow from TrackIR to the game while FFB effect values are being updated in MSFFB2 driver. Therefore, it looks like a bug in MSFFB2 driver and we need to decide what can we do about this (this device is very old so it is not supported by its manufacturer).
 
The fact that there is no such problem in other sims means that they use a different effects pattern: we reduced the FFB update frequency and TrackIR stutters frequency reduced as well, but they remained noticeable.
 
A hypothesis follows:
Thanks to the thorough graphics optimization in IL-2, FPS increased by 2.5-3 times compared to February 2016 version. Because of this, a videocard is used by the game much more than before, so effectively that graphics subsystem utilizes CPU resources dedicated to the preparation of a new frame almost completely.
When the game was unoptimized and FPS was low these CPU resources were free and they were used to handle the data flow from TrackIR.
Now, when a CPU is more taxed because a GPU is utilized more effectively, there are much less 'free time' and TIR view stuttering became significantly more apparent.
 
We can't say what can be done with this problem right now. First, as I said, the problem is in MSFFB2 driver.
Second, since the problem is not in our code, we can attempt to fix it by trying different approaches and changing the FFB effect pattern the game uses. This would require significant time and we're having serious problems with this resource already. I think we'll get to this problem, but I can't tell when in such circumstances.
 
So we're aware of it, we only have one programmer and everyone's time is already maxed out. We'll get to it when we can.
 
Jason

 

Why after such a long time Devs didn't do even a tiny step to repair so annoying defect of the simulator?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Totally smooth for me ,

 

Ingame settings :  Smoothness 100%

                              Pan camera = default : Speed 100% / Inertia 0%

                              Rotation : speed 100%  Inertia 0%

                              Full Screen UNticked aka windowed mode in graphic settings .

                              Vsync ON ingame 

 

Nvidia panel control : Vsync set to Fast (driver 384.94)

 

Track IR 5 : Speed at 0.9  Smooth set to 3 according to my curves ...

 

Hope it can be of some help ;)

13

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a pretty strange set.

Are you using V-sync in the game + Fast sync together, you can have one or the other.

Moreover it is the need to comply with more rules and settings in the NCP.

I've tried countless options, but it is now clear that the DEVS must look at the code that the headtreking used under DX9 there was stuttering to a minimum.

Otherwise thank you for the settings and efforts help.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Yep  BOTH vsync on + fast sync on  ... with those settings,  it' s smooth on my rig ...my fps are of course capped under 60 BUT it s totally smooth , and almost   always without  tearing ...ah and  in game Target FPS is  set to OFF .

 

 

I ve bought a 970 ,15 days ago , and so have had to reset all my ingame and driver settings , before with a 660 gtx OC 2 gigs , i was running  no v sync ingame and application controlled in nvidia driver , same settings in tir 5 , and it was running good but with constant tearing , it was the only working solution i had found even if it s a walkaround ...

 

Now i ve got almost no tearing at all , and it runs smooth ...

Note that fast sync alone with no vsync in game and "jaggies" are back immediatly ....vsync in game and application controlled in driver and no way ....

 

I do think , i ve tried all possible combinations  , and at least for me the better is those ...it works ...

Worth the try , anyway ...

Edited by 13Nrv
Link to post
Share on other sites

in the  nvidia control panel , you can choose different kind of vsync settings , and the name of one of them is "fast sync" 

 

 

as solmyr is french , i will also answer him in our native language (no offense guys ) :

 

tu vas dans le panneau de controle nvidia , dans Vsync tu deroules les differents type de reglages vsync proposés tu as : - utiliser le parametre d application 3D 

                           - desactivé

                           - activé

                           - adaptatif

                           - adaptatif (moitie de la frequence de rafraichissement)

                           - rapide    c' est celui la qui correspond à fast 

Mais essaie les autres : adaptatif notamment etait pas si mal chez moi avec la 660gtx  ...

Ma facon de faire n a rien de scientifique hein , j ai juste essayé toutes les combinaisons possibles et retenue celle qui marche le mieux chez moi ;) ...

Edited by 13Nrv
Link to post
Share on other sites

in the  nvidia control panel , you can choose different kind of vsync settings , and the name of one of them is "fast sync" 

 

 

as solmyr is french , i will also answer him in our native language (no offense guys ) :

 

tu vas dans le panneau de controle nvidia , dans Vsync tu deroules les differents type de reglages vsync proposés tu as : - utiliser le parametre d application 3D 

                           - desactivé

                           - activé

                           - adaptatif

                           - adaptatif (moitie de la frequence de rafraichissement)

                           - rapide    c' est celui la qui correspond à fast 

Mais essaie les autres : adaptatif notamment etait pas si mal chez moi avec la 660gtx  ...

Ma facon de faire n a rien de scientifique hein , j ai juste essayé toutes les combinaisons possibles et retenue celle qui marche le mieux chez moi ;) ...

 

Thank you mate !

 

I'm not at home these days, but will finally get my hands on this fantastic (I hope ?) new Spit MkV and into this new 2.012 build, full of adjustments and improves with your formula, as I have a 970 GTX too. And thank you for the french further explanations too. ;)

Edited by Solmyr
Link to post
Share on other sites

I lost any hope that this issue will be fixed... we gave all the possible info to the devs but seems they are not interested in fixing this... honestly I'm not flying IL2 anymore for this reason... it's very bad when the game is so smooth and then get so many stutters only when you turn your head with the trackir. I agree with what I/JG2_Saladin said, smoothness to 100% is not a solution, to me make the things worse

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I lost any hope that this issue will be fixed... we gave all the possible info to the devs but seems they are not interested in fixing this... honestly I'm not flying IL2 anymore for this reason... it's very bad when the game is so smooth and then get so many stutters only when you turn your head with the trackir. I agree with what I/JG2_Saladin said, smoothness to 100% is not a solution, to me make the things worse

You can give all the info, if you have no one to do the change, you'll have no fix. As you can see with the patch 2.012, dev work hardly to finish BoK. There are many work to do. So you can stop to fly or writte it, but it change nothing that we are only a few to use the MS FFB2. There are priority, and between the map of kuban, the coop mod for the multiplayer, the carrier mod for the single player, the last plane to model and all the system to simulate, it's normal that it's not on their top priority. And it's the same thing for the problem of gunsight in 3D vision.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Totally agree with habu , the 100 % smoothness and the different settings , is may be a walkaround , or a non convincing solution BUT    that s the one that allowes me to play the game , and even if it s not as smooth as silk as it can be , it s really playable at least for me ...  

And that s just the reason why , i share my setting in the hope it can help some others .

 

And yep in every project of any kind of business , you must  set priorities or you ll never  reach the initial target  !

 

This one is just not on top of the priorities , and that doesn't mean it is totally forgotten or that they dont take care ...

My 2 cents ...

Edited by 13Nrv
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Haven't been flying BoX for over a year now, and this never was an issue for me since the stick noise filter has been introduced to RoF. But now in 2.012 (I think the last version I ran before was the one that introduced the MiG-3) I either have the stuttering view pans (low filter) or view pans that lag extremely like 1-2 seconds until BoX translates my TIR movement into the sim (high filter) or something in between which isn't any better at all. My FPS are around 100 give or take a few at high setting, 3570k, 16GB, GTX 970.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

The thing is wen you fly with the FF2 and used to it, you can't simply go back to non FF Sticks. Its like the Track IR or The Rudder... And i am convinced that this bug is pretty easy to fix if someone spends some time to do so. Hope is life ! 

So "keep the dream alive"  ;) 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Question - Does this happen with VR?

 

My force feedback stick MS FFB2 and TrackIR issue is related to erratic shaking of my joystick. It's plugged into USB 2.0 in the back of the PC and not into a hub. Any suggestions?

Edited by JG7_X_Man
Link to post
Share on other sites

Question - Does this happen with VR?

 

No, it does not. well not visibly anyway.

 

This could mean that the 1:1 head tracking isn't moving fast enough to make the problem more prominent. Although, when I was using TrackIR5 with the MSFFB2, even extremely slow head movements would stutter pretty badly.

So prehaps it is still there, but with VR it's not noticable at all.

 

I've always suspected it was implementation of the TrackIR API being used in the digital nature engine and not the actual joystick drivers, because as we all know DCS doesn't have this problem. I cannot be sure of that, as I am not privvy to their code. So it's just pure speculation.

 

In all honesty I had totally forgotten about this problem since I bought the Oculus Rift. I still use the MSFF2 with the Rift and I haven't noticed it once.

So no, it doesn't happen in VR.

Edited by HippyDruid
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

I just would like to say I think there is something that could be done to fix this issue and that the devs are potentially sold on the idea that msffb2 wrecks havoc on CPU or that it's the msffb2 driver.   But, if it were the case, this would be true with other programs I use msffb2 + track IR with. 

 

ARMA, DCS, - heavily CPU intensive games.  DCS 2.x using a crazy amount of resources but none of them seem to produce this jitter despite high framerates. .   Yet still I suffer through it because flying prop planes is just where this old joystick shines. 

 

I still manage somewhat but, this combined with many of the other bugs that seem to go without any notice or concern are kind of offputting.   Great flight sim engine but in 2017 a game that relies heavily on a joystick yet it doesn't detect when you plug a stick in without exiting the game, which wouldn't be a problem if alt tabbing to check discord or something didn't disconnect/reconnect my stick even though it never physically became unplugged.. or hearing the main menu sounds while I'm sitting parked on an airfield... or servers seeming inability to allow multiple incoming connections at once as people get booted back to the main menu. 

 

Now off to Bodenplatte right after Kuban.  Methinks there needs to be some time taken at some point to take care of some of these bugs.. you know..actually dig into the code and iron these things out.  The product is too good to be tarnished by these things as you continue to bring new features and content. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK - So I have done some serious testing and I have my issue solved. No more micro stutters!!!

 

...I only use default view with no other views. Once I made this change, my stutters went away. I followed what "I Fly Central" suggested about adjusting your default view without TrackIR enabled. I used "The Air Combat Tutorial Library" instructions (...Thank you guys!). However, I do have the F1 key view mapped to my hat-switch. 

 

I also used the Force Feedback Diagnostic Program to clean my joysticks settings.

 

As far as camera settings:

Pan Camera Mode set to default, Smoothness set to 90 and cinematic external view off.

 

As for my TrackIR, I use the TrackClip mounted to my Logitech 930 headset. My wife says "It looks like it can pick up TV stations", but I don't care ;).  Also, I have always used a 55" screen (Since my old IL-2 days), which sits about 7 ft away from me, thus I use the "stocking trick" to decrease the light my TrackIR picks up.(which sits behind me), this is also why I prefer the TrackIR Clip, it's easier to face backwards than the TrackIR Clip Pro.

 

If anyone needs additional help - just PM me.

Edited by JG7_X_Man
Link to post
Share on other sites

*snip*

 

...I only use default view with no other views. Once I made this change, my stutters went away. I followed what "I Fly Central" suggested about adjusting your default view without TrackIR enabled. I used "The Air Combat Tutorial Library" instructions (...Thank you guys!). However, I do have the F1 key view mapped to my hat-switch. 

 

*snip*

 

As far as camera settings:

Pan Camera Mode set to default, Smoothness set to 90 and cinematic external view off.

 

*snip*

 

I haven't had any microstutter for some time but it is still there if I change my Smoothness setting back down.

 

When you say "default view" do you mean in TrackIR you have the Profile set to Default?  What about the "Exclusive" box, do you have this checked?  I use my own profile but I have it marked as exclusive.  I wonder if this is essentially the same thing.

 

For camera my Smoothness is 100%.  This seemed the key to solving my issue though it didn't seem to solve it for everyone.  I find the Pan settings do have an effect with TrackIR but not in terms of stutters but just in terms of speed of head movement.  I have all movement at 80% (except FOV at 40%) and all inertia at 60%.

 

I do not experience any issues in CloD using the same profile.

Edited by VBF-12_Stick-95
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Hello Guys,

I’m new to this forum and i apologize in advance if I’m not quite on topic, because I have very noticeable stutters with trackIR head movement. However I’m not using a FFB Stick (All my hardware is in my Signature). I still found this to be the most suitable thread I could find.

My FPS are around 60 lowest, 90 average, peaks 200 and above with graphics at max.  It doesn’t matter if im using lowest or highest graphic settings. Stutters are the same. That said the stutter are less noticeable with higher framerates but the FPS are high enough anyway.

The setting that works best for me after a lot of testing is as follows:
GSync active, monitor set to 144 hz. In game VSync on. It needs some kind of frame cap because otherwise stutters get worse and VSync works best for me.

 

Graphics Card driver settings are standard.

All the in game camera settings make no real difference for me.

If i’m using the key inputs to pan the camera it’s almost not recognizable. It's there wenn using trackIR to look around.

What I did notice is that some other inputs also somehow feel jittery.
For example: UI buttons start to flicker for a split second when I hover over them with the mouse. Or the command menu during flight needs to be pressed several times, flickering before it shows up. Maybe these have somehow to do with each other.

For me, it is not the performance of the game it self. It’s how it handles (renders?) inputs.

I am by no means an expert, but thought I report my experience as accurate as possible. Maybe it helps sorting out this problem.

 

Greetings!

Edited by rega
Link to post
Share on other sites

I found a setting for me to almost completely get rid of microstutters.

 

Please try these settings and report back, it could be that it might only work for me (I had always had headcaches and heavy eye strain which seems a lot less now).

 

#1 - Go to your task manager -> tab details - > right click TrackIR -> select priority -> high

 

#2 - Go to your Nvidia control panal -> manage 3D settings -> il-2 game profile -> set threaded optimization "off" (see picture)

 

 

@rega: Turn ingame Vsync of and turn Vsync on in your nvidia game profile (as in my picture)

post-13979-0-39434100-1515351982_thumb.jpg

Edited by Blue_Jordan
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

216th_Jordan,
Tanks for your suggestions. Unfortunately, this does not work for me. For me Vsync is better in game and treaded optmization doesn't change anything. Neither does the task priority for track IR. :(

The settings i have posted above, are the best i can get out of my system. Latency is is pretty good with it too.

Also, stutters are worst around the center. Maybe its the cockpit instruments rendering idk.

Edited by rega
Link to post
Share on other sites

Could you supply rig specs?

 

Don't hold your breath;  Win10,  i7 930  overclocked to 3.8ghz, 12 gigs of so-so DDR3 and a GTX770 2gig.  I'm constantly amazed with how well this game performs on what is basically an ancient pile of cobbled together old sh#te.

 

However, after the next update I have a feeling I'll have to grab myself a GTX970 from evilbay. :cool:

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
@rega; silly question but have you updated your TrackIr drivers lately? :salute:

 

I had to, after windows 10 creators update. Version 5.4.2.27545 here. :big_boss: 

 

Maybe i'm just asking for to much. When play it for a long time, you get used to it. It's most noticable for me when i'm comming from another game.

 

Greets!

Edited by rega
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...