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Pacific Campaigns- What do WE really want to see!


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Reading Jason's latest comment and concurring number of BOK pre-order sales (estimate based on member search), all these Pacific wish talk is a moot point.

 

In order for Pacific to happen, BOK needs to sell. BOK sales is not even meeting 1/5 of Jason's number (BOK sales needs to be in par with BOS). Assuming pre-order sales is indicative of total sales and Jason's comment is indicative of BOK outlook, I now think it's quite depressing how people talk about Pacific (including myself) when BOK sales is so low.

Don't give up so fast. Dx11 is not yet out and neither is any content for BoK while still 2k ppl preordered the premium edition. Its good that we talk about the future here, it just that we have got to be aware of what is going on in general with this game and genre.

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From reading comments, I am also of impression that people expect and treat next updates and theatres as givens (i am also guilty of this).

I feel for devs as looking at BOK sales number so far, it doesnt look too bright (from my own interpretation of commericial feasibility).
If devs voice out the gloomy outlook, I anticipate more Internet articles like "Devs threatens to shut down if u dont buy" to appear.

I am hoping that community realize nothing is a given as some clearly don't by their attitude.

While on this topic, I want to thank those members who promote BOS via SNS on their own time - Youtube, personal blog, wordpress AND personal give aways.

I wish I am also tech savvy to help promoting BOS. 

 

I really wish Pacific happens. 

Edited by Cute_retriever
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Reading Jason's latest comment and concurring number of BOK pre-order sales (estimate based on member search), all these Pacific wish talk is a moot point.

 

In order for Pacific to happen, BOK needs to sell.  BOK sales is not even meeting 1/5 of Jason's number (BOK sales needs to be in par with BOS).  Assuming pre-order sales is indicative of total sales and Jason's comment is indicative of BOK outlook, I now think it's quite depressing how people talk about Pacific (including myself) when BOK sales is so low. 

 

How are you determining the pre-order sales numbers? They don't exactly give us a list.

 

On my blog I'm seeing an increase in the number of people reading my review of IL-2: Battle of Moscow. It's not a solid link to actual sales but I know there is interest out there.

Edited by ShamrockOneFive
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I asked the same question to another member a while back.

 

Member search > sort by BOK tag. 

There would be other factors that leads to a deviation from actual sales figure (which I hope there is), so I did not pay much attention previously, but latest Jason's pledge was quite alerting which made me to relate to the numbers I see via search. 

 

-a big fan of your blog.  Very articulate, professional, objective yet informative IL-2 articles.  Envy your writing talent.

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I think if 777/1C released a BOP that included Midway, Guadalcanal, and a few other island hoping campaigns as one it would give the single player a campaign you could progress through with not just ships to sink but air and land targets as well. Same for mission builders and server admins, win the midway map and next one is something different with other targets. In '46 I flew with a Air Group, Doolittle Raiders, AG8 We started co-ops at Pearl and went all the way to Okinawa and I can tell you some of it was boring..flying, looking at water in the hopes of finding a target.

 

So if you had a few rolled into one it would be the best of both worlds right? That's if we ever get to BOP.

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As a P40 guy, I'd love to see the Flying Tigers done properly, but, there are real world political reasons why this can never happen, thank you Red China... not.

 

So New Guinea would be the next best area that would hold my interest, as the P40 played a big part there, for both the ANZACs and the USAAF.

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I asked the same question to another member a while back.

 

Member search > sort by BOK tag. 

There would be other factors that leads to a deviation from actual sales figure (which I hope there is), so I did not pay much attention previously, but latest Jason's pledge was quite alerting which made me to relate to the numbers I see via search. 

 

-a big fan of your blog.  Very articulate, professional, objective yet informative IL-2 articles.  Envy your writing talent.

 

Ahh interesting idea! Well that does give us an idea for sure... I'd give it time. There are folks out there who will wait until later in the process. They may be on a stretched budget and bought the Yak-1B and Ju52 first and will pre-order later on or after they have seen more content. There are a lot of factors.

 

Many thanks for the kind words! I'm just doing it for fun but at the same time I think it may help in a small way to get the word out. Nearly 5,000 visitors and 16,000 views has to count for something :)

 

As a P40 guy, I'd love to see the Flying Tigers done properly, but, there are real world political reasons why this can never happen, thank you Red China... not.

 

So New Guinea would be the next best area that would hold my interest, as the P40 played a big part there, for both the ANZACs and the USAAF.

 

New Guinea would be great! (Not that a Flying Tigers and subsequent ops wouldn't be)

 

I had some fun when the NGNB map finally came to IL-2 1946 flying all of those army planes over the jungles and across the mountains in New Guinea or attacking Rabaul on New Britain. Definitely an area that could be mined for a lot of air combat interest. That is worthy of a whole separate release after Midway in my mind.

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People often mention long flight times as a reason not to opt for a map, this isn't a problem in single player if you have a reasonably big time-skip function. A valid point for multiplayer of course, but MP isn't the be all and end all.

 

The problem is not so much flight times, as you say you can use time acceleration, but more just the sheer size of the map. Even if it is mostly open ocean the game engine still has to track what is in it.

 

I am one of those happy enough to fly missions up to about sixty to ninety minutes in real time, since I hate air starts in SP: any longer than that and my bum hurts too much :( 

 

The more I think about it the more I would go for a Pacificoid map, with a couple of islands at the ends as main bases for land based bombers, a cluster of larger islands between them for forwards bases and ground unit combat, and off to the north a large area of ocean with an atoll or two for landing operations and carrier vs carrier ops. But it all depends on what is the maximum size map the engine can cope with. 

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I'm doing my best to get my online squad mates to move from CloD to BOS but most of them don't like the Eastern theatre. A few of the guys are from the UK so there will always be that connection you can't replace unless you fully replace CloD.

 

I flew BOS again last night after a long time...all I can say is WOW...the game is SOOOOOO beautiful. If only I can get others on board. That's why I'm hoping/pushing for the Pacific...it will bring in USN/USMC/IJN/IJA aircraft which should directly impact the western markets (incl Japan).

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As a P40 guy, I'd love to see the Flying Tigers done properly, but, there are real world political reasons why this can never happen, thank you Red China... not.

 

 So is China guilty for Il2 will not include them? Then let's send a letter to Xi Jinping to let IL2 use the Chinese campaigns :biggrin:   

Edited by MigSu
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 So is China guilty for Il2 will not include them? Then let's send a letter to Xi Jinping to let IL2 use the Chinese campaigns :biggrin:   

 

The Flying Tigers flew in support of the Nationalist army. After WWII they lost to the Communists (also involved in WWII) and fled to what is now Taiwan. They tend to not be up for anything that "glorifies" the Nationalists in any way.

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The Flying Tigers flew in support of the Nationalist army. After WWII they lost to the Communists (also involved in WWII) and fled to what is now Taiwan. They tend to not be up for anything that "glorifies" the Nationalists in any way.

 Nice info, man, but i am not talking about what happened then, and if China this or China that, sorry RED China like was mentioned, we all do not care if is communist or not, we are here talking about that time, and not now, like (again) was mentioned, as politic reasons? Russia used to be like was, also Germany changed, like Italy, Japan, etc etc etc, we do not care about that, today things are like are but that is another topic, and, i do not see reasons to affect in a simple game and less, when are talking about another time, so, come on.
 
 Well BF2/4 sppear the Red china  :P
 
Regards
Edited by MigSu
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In spirit of supporting 1C, Pacific theatre and appreciation of Herrmurf (who kindly gifted me a fw190), I have made another pre-order of BOK and sent to a member whom I think is also a great asset to IL2 community. 

 

Reading latest Jason's comment re:  BOK sales is in line, but overall genre sales need help, I am somewhat relieved, but I really hope Pacific happens in the future. 

 

OK let's continue to talk about Pacific. 

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Don't forget, there's always a spike on release date. Even I took a while to pre-order. Companies have to move away from the whole 'we only get money from pre-order'...just because thats what millions of people do for games like FIFA, BF, COD, etc doesn't mean its going to work for everything. Once BOK gets released, you should (hopefully) see a spike in sales because people what to buy and play straight away.

 

Having said that, BOK is the third iteration of the Eastern Front. If sales aren't going great, isn't it because maybe prospective customers really aren't into the Eastern Front? Imagine if the guys went and rolled out The Pacific in Dec...I'm sure there will be a heck of a lot more sales. I remember back in the IL2 days, on and around Dec 7th there was always a spike in....guess which map....(Hint: zeros/kates/jills flying from carriers...vs P40Bs in and around a big harbour). Obviously I'm just speak out of my butt here but we've all played these games for long enough to have more educated guesses. My point is from what I've raised above (and elsewhere) in trying to get others to join the BOS bandwagon...but nobody here likes the Eastern Front. So, we wait. Thats not to say that the Pacific would suddenly increase sales 10 fold but it couldn't do any worse than BOK can it? not with the potential to tap into new markets? 

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Don't forget, there's always a spike on release date. Even I took a while to pre-order. Companies have to move away from the whole 'we only get money from pre-order'...just because thats what millions of people do for games like FIFA, BF, COD, etc doesn't mean its going to work for everything. Once BOK gets released, you should (hopefully) see a spike in sales because people what to buy and play straight away.

 

Having said that, BOK is the third iteration of the Eastern Front. If sales aren't going great, isn't it because maybe prospective customers really aren't into the Eastern Front? Imagine if the guys went and rolled out The Pacific in Dec...I'm sure there will be a heck of a lot more sales. I remember back in the IL2 days, on and around Dec 7th there was always a spike in....guess which map....(Hint: zeros/kates/jills flying from carriers...vs P40Bs in and around a big harbour). Obviously I'm just speak out of my butt here but we've all played these games for long enough to have more educated guesses. My point is from what I've raised above (and elsewhere) in trying to get others to join the BOS bandwagon...but nobody here likes the Eastern Front. So, we wait. Thats not to say that the Pacific would suddenly increase sales 10 fold but it couldn't do any worse than BOK can it? not with the potential to tap into new markets? 

 

Lots of folks here like flying on the Eastern front. But it is true that more of the US market will probably jump onboard with a Midway scenario just as they did with Pacific Fighters.

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As a P40 guy, I'd love to see the Flying Tigers done properly, but, there are real world political reasons why this can never happen

That's a major (and foolish, IMO) assumption to make. If 1CGS thinks they can make a viable Flying Tigers title, then the heck with what the government of China thinks.

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Don't forget, there's always a spike on release date. Even I took a while to pre-order. Companies have to move away from the whole 'we only get money from pre-order'...just because thats what millions of people do for games like FIFA, BF, COD, etc doesn't mean its going to work for everything. Once BOK gets released, you should (hopefully) see a spike in sales because people what to buy and play straight away.

 

Having said that, BOK is the third iteration of the Eastern Front. If sales aren't going great, isn't it because maybe prospective customers really aren't into the Eastern Front? Imagine if the guys went and rolled out The Pacific in Dec...I'm sure there will be a heck of a lot more sales. I remember back in the IL2 days, on and around Dec 7th there was always a spike in....guess which map....(Hint: zeros/kates/jills flying from carriers...vs P40Bs in and around a big harbour). Obviously I'm just speak out of my butt here but we've all played these games for long enough to have more educated guesses. My point is from what I've raised above (and elsewhere) in trying to get others to join the BOS bandwagon...but nobody here likes the Eastern Front. So, we wait. Thats not to say that the Pacific would suddenly increase sales 10 fold but it couldn't do any worse than BOK can it? not with the potential to tap into new markets? 

 

They've given a reason for producing a third iteration of the Eastern Front: Modeling mountains; modeling ships; modeling ship attacks - all things they will need for many Pacific campaigns (ships for Midway, mountains for Solomons and/or New Guinea).

 

But I agree - a bold and direct move to the Pacific would have pulled a lot more wallets out of their pockets real quick.

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That's a major (and foolish, IMO) assumption to make. If 1CGS thinks they can make a viable Flying Tigers title, then the heck with what the government of China thinks.

Exactly!!  , past is past, this is a game and politic is politic, that's it  

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That's a major (and foolish, IMO) assumption to make. If 1CGS thinks they can make a viable Flying Tigers title, then the heck with what the government of China thinks.

 

1CGS does have to worry about it if it wants people in China to buy it or use it by connecting to servers outside China.   They probably would not mind a Nationalist China vs Japan game, so long as the Chicoms get an honourable mention in the cut-scenes etc, but they might well understandably object to something that could be presented as a "US airmen save China" scenario. 

 

 I think Jason mentioned before that localization would be a big problem for the Chinese market, (and Japanese) and would be needed to get good sales. 

 

A shame in a way: a Japan vs China scenario (including Flying Tigers as a part) has a lot of interesting plane set and geography options. Personally I would prefer it to the PTO, but I know I would be very much in the minority in the western audience.

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They probably would not mind a Nationalist China vs Japan game, so long as the Chicoms get an honourable mention in the cut-scenes etc, but they might well understandably object to something that could be presented as a "US airmen save China" scenario.

No, it's exactly the other way around.

 

The problem would be anything related to the Kuomintang government. If I am not mistaken, even the "Blue Sky with a White Sun" symbol is banned in mainland China.

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No, it's exactly the other way around.

 

The problem would be anything related to the Kuomintang government. If I am not mistaken, even the "Blue Sky with a White Sun" symbol is banned in mainland China.

 

If you think that the Chinese government would allow a "US airmen save China from the Japanese" game I can only  :o:

 

As for whether the symbol is banned - I do not know, but I expect it is all about context. As a symbol of Taiwan perhaps. Anyway, if so that is just as much a problem for a Flying Tigers scenario as they were part of the Nationalist Air Force (being mercenaries) and flew planes with Nationalist markings.

post-15424-0-81070600-1480321917_thumb.jpg

Edited by unreasonable
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In spirit of supporting 1C, Pacific theatre and appreciation of Herrmurf (who kindly gifted me a fw190), I have made another pre-order of BOK and sent to a member whom I think is also a great asset to IL2 community. 

Being a receiving party I feel obliged to say thank you for this unexpected and kind surprise I found this morning. It is great that our community has such people like you sir !

 

 

 

then the heck with what the government of China thinks.

Precisely, if Great China Firewall is going to make problems, well, rest of the world wont.

 

 

 

"US airmen save China" scenario. 
 

Considering that to a large degree that is true and Chinese people received great support from US I see no problem with that, even if it would be politically incorrect in eyes of current Government of PRC.

 

Personally I'd be more scared of real AVG veterans and their veteran organizations than Chinese Government :) Those guys made huge dramas over the last 20-30 years. Anyone who read "Flying Tigers: Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942" and heard what Daniel Ford went through will know what I'm talking about. I'd also be afraid that there would be few who would fly in Ki-27 :) 

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In spirit of supporting 1C, Pacific theatre and appreciation of Herrmurf (who kindly gifted me a fw190), I have made another pre-order of BOK and sent to a member whom I think is also a great asset to IL2 community.

 

Reading latest Jason's comment re: BOK sales is in line, but overall genre sales need help, I am somewhat relieved, but I really hope Pacific happens in the future.

 

OK let's continue to talk about Pacific.

Nice!! Paying it forward is absolutely one of the aims of my giveaways. Support the game, build the community. Well done!!

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I think we should concentrate on the upcoming release the BOK, so the devs can workout the DX11 stuff, implement some water and naval attack strucktures, so that we can have a preview of what is comming next.

 

Im realy happy how this sim develops and what the plan for the future, so that i bought both, the BOS and BOM as premium, the other planes will come, but later.

 

I see BOS as a beginning to implement the new il2 series, BOM is a damn nice addon for me with realy nice maps and damn good planes. The additional planes, are fine for me, I will also buy the Ju-52, but later.

Ist like a collection for me, I can Play with.

 

So, lets see hot it will develop and lets wait for the first Feature announcement from the Developers.

 

My 2 cents

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My biggest argument against starting with midway is the ships.  While the US side only has two classes (for the most part) Yorktown, and Lexington, the Japanese side has a lot of variation in the ship layouts.  The 4 fleet carriers at Midway are all one off ships.  http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/okeanos/explorations/ex1603/background/midway/media/strike-poster-hires.jpg  This is going to require a lot of extra work for ONE battle.  All these ships are sunk at this battle, and the classes are not reused.  

 

On the other hand Shokaku and Zuikaku were sister ships, and fought from 1941 to 1944.  Their battles include the Indian Ocean Raid, Coral Sea, Eastern Solomons, Santa Cruz and Philippine Sea, Zuikaku also fought at Leyte Gulf.

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"For most of the time carrier aviation is more challenging than flying in a spacecraft"

Astronaut James Lovell

Carriers are interesting, but they are just part of the story - they are not in and of themselves the most interesting component of the air war in the Pacific.

During the mid-war period when the air forces were meeting on equal terms - carriers played a comparatively small role. Both sides were keeping their carriers

tucked away out of each other's reach. 

By the time the late-war carrier operations came around, Japan was in retreat and the days of trading punches blow for blow in the skies over the Solomons

and New Guinea were long gone.

 

Thus from a standpoint of long term campaigns/career and force parity/balance - carriers can't be the focus.

Carrier battles were short, and fierce, and generally aimed at targeting the opposing sides carriers.

Interesting, and will be fun no doubt, but we need more meat for an ongoing campaign. 

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Over the years, with all the reading I have done on the Pacific War, one thing really stands out.  The thing that both the Allied and Japanese navies feared the most was land based aircraft.

 

There are a lot of reasons for this, but the biggest is that land based aircraft can sustain operations far longer than carrier based aircraft can.  Their "carrier" never has to run back to Pearl or Yokohama for refit and repair, and you can't sink it either.  It will always be there, a thorn in your side that you cannot ignore.  Sure, you can bomb or shell it, but in a day or two it will be operational again, unlike your carrier that if you bomb or shell has to run to port for repair, if it even survives.

 

Just something to think about.

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They've given a reason for producing a third iteration of the Eastern Front: Modeling mountains; modeling ships; modeling ship attacks - all things they will need for many Pacific campaigns (ships for Midway, mountains for Solomons and/or New Guinea).

 

But I agree - a bold and direct move to the Pacific would have pulled a lot more wallets out of their pockets real quick.

 

Yep thats why I said I can understand why they've continued with the EF. The problem is, the number of people (ie. us) willing to spend big on these iterations (big because BOK = roughly same price as BF1 or CODMW or FIFA, etc) is quite small. If you want customers to pay for your development...give them something they WANT to buy eg. Pacific or WTO (Western Europe) or MTO (N/Africa). You can always go back to developing BOK as an iteration further on. The issue we face is, they finally release BOK and realise the $$ they receive isn't great so they make a big decision to STOP developing flight sims and move to something else. Hey, its all about the $$ and if the person/company funding you says 'no more', what are you going to do - crowd fund? That is, unless you have deep pockets. 

 

Anyway, far be it for me to second guess the decisions of the devs. I'm just a guy with a deep love for WW2 aviation and playing PC games. :P 

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Carriers are interesting, but they are just part of the story - they are not in and of themselves the most interesting component of the air war in the Pacific.

During the mid-war period when the air forces were meeting on equal terms - carriers played a comparatively small role. Both sides were keeping their carriers

tucked away out of each other's reach. 

By the time the late-war carrier operations came around, Japan was in retreat and the days of trading punches blow for blow in the skies over the Solomons

and New Guinea were long gone.

 

Thus from a standpoint of long term campaigns/career and force parity/balance - carriers can't be the focus.

Carrier battles were short, and fierce, and generally aimed at targeting the opposing sides carriers.

Interesting, and will be fun no doubt, but we need more meat for an ongoing campaign. 

Indeed so, but it's still challenging and fun :).. I absolutely LOVED carrier operations in Pacific Fighters; both single player and multiplayer.

However I agree with pretty much everything what has been said about diversity. There are absolutely more possibilities to make different kinds of missions in other settings such as GuadalCanal. What comes first is up to the producer. I would suggest that sales wise, a title such as Midway has great potential to lure new customers to the IL2 franchise; especially in the US -  it's such an iconic battle. 

The questions to be asked are, would a Guadal Canal title entice as many new customers as a Midway title, and is the amount of work aquired the same? Only the team can answer that; it is they who not only set the title -they also set the scope.

It wouldn't surprise me if the workload for Guadal Canal is way bigger ; I would think that in order for us (customers) to feel that the team have depicted this enviroment good and rich enough, there is a sh*tload of resources to be made - not only airplanes (islands,many different ground textures, jungles, houses, barges, bridges, beaches, huts, aerodrome objects, ships, boats, ... well the list can go on and on.) Midway seem to me to be more contained.

 

It's a risky venture no matter what road they will take. I have not clue how big a Pacific title would be in Russian which is - I guess -  still a major market for IL2. But IF a Midway title would be successful and increase the revenues for the team, it will absolutely be a good stepping stone to further develop the franchise; be it in the Pacific, on Eastern front or elsewhere. I would guess that THIS is the major thing for Jason and the team: What title would give us a more secure economic platform to continue - and with a realistic scope for a small team?

Edited by SvAF/F19_Klunk
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Midway is perfect for a first release and makes the most sense, so long as more than just the Midway map is provided.

Nobody is debating that frankly.

It's a matter then of making good use of the aircraft already provided in that release, (They didn't go from Barbarossa to the Battle of Berlin after all - for good reason)

thus building the experience much like what they've done in the Eastern Front. Wise use of aircraft, wise use of the new career platform - which is requiring significant resources as well.

Mission and career diversity - bang for the buck.

 

 

 

Midway though...yep .that's going to be sweet.

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New Guinea please.........

 

And a B17 to take us to the Western theatre please

 

Agreed, New Guinea would be great (better than Midway imo)

 

New Guinea also has a cool planeset:

P-47D-3-RA-222637%20%5B640x480%5D.jpg

3_31_b1.jpg

Plus all the other aircrafts that served there. And we could also use existing aircraft like the P-40, P-39, and A-20, (was the Spit at New Guinea?) even if these aircraft aren't the same variant that flew over new guinea we could still use them.

 

Also, New Guinea had carrier operations as well, so we could see both land and naval operations, we could get the best of both worlds.

Edited by Legioneod
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Spit

Yes, RAAF No 79 Squadron equipped with Spitfires MK Vc was transferred to Goodenough Island on the eastern side of New Guinea in May-June 1943 period and then moved to Kiriwina, Trobriand Islands from where it engaged Japanese Army over New Guinea and Japanese Navy over New Britain. Considering that armament would be same if compared to our Spitfitre Vb I think its closest we could get to.   

 

Also, New Guinea had carrier operations as well, so we could see both land and naval operations, we could get the best of both worlds.

Yes, Japanese carriers were often around the New Britain, most of the time transferring aircraft for various operations - like I-Go or Ro-Go. 

Edited by =LD=Hiromachi
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Reading Jason's latest comment and concurring number of BOK pre-order sales (estimate based on member search), all these Pacific wish talk is a moot point.

 

In order for Pacific to happen, BOK needs to sell. BOK sales is not even meeting 1/5 of Jason's number (BOK sales needs to be in par with BOS). Assuming pre-order sales is indicative of total sales and Jason's comment is indicative of BOK outlook, I now think it's quite depressing how people talk about Pacific (including myself) when BOK sales is so low.

Not sure how you are coming up with sales figures, forum members with BOK silver and gold badges?

 

Just note that all sales of BOS BOM and collectors aircraft are also going to their sales figures.

 

Either way it's way too early to judge any level of success for BOK. The game won't release for about a year and even then most sales will come after launch.

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