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150GCT_Veltro

Why LW lose all the missions on WoL

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My thoughts.

Ok LW guys need more bombers and to improve their tactical approach to the mission but really.......some complains here are needed. I don't talk about mission design because it's not related to BoS.

 

Here we go.

 

1) Pe-2

This aircarft now, for my opinion, is really a border line machine for a WW2 sim. I would define it embarrassing: gunners are snipers and DM is really questionable at least, or...may be...we should talk about MG151/20 instead of Pe-2 DM, or better...about both DM and MG151.

Some review about this bomber is really needed because not only is not credibile at all, but it's also ruining a bit the online experience, killing any sort of tactical approach that's is not needed anymore for VVS with this kinde of bomber: not escort is needed, as for wingman considering that a Pe-2 can stay in combat even if completely damaged, and LW need 3 hunters for each one Pe-2. It ridiculous what's going on now online. It seems to see Tie fighters engaging the Millennium Falcon.

 

Shoot down a B-17 would be probably more easy.

 

2) IL2, a bit too strong but the problem here, is probably related not to this aircaft itself but, again, to the "nerfed" MG151/20mm. It does fly like a fighter, ok, but nobody can make statements that it didn't. It's just a bit too strong (durable).

 

So, the big problem is the Pe-2. This bird really need a check, and a strong revision. It's not serious, really, for a WW2 sim.

Edited by 150GCT_Veltro
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It probably has something to do with hartmaning/noobing. And also a blue bomber.... it is like Happy New Year. Happens only once a year.

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Disable AI gunners from all bombers so that bomber pilots would have to use gunners by themselves or fly with multicrew. Even if that would be as effective it would be less annoying to get shot down by gunners controlled by human players.  


It's the team's lack of teamwork.

Nothing to do with the planes.

 

If PE-2's damage model is fine then it is flown by cheaters. It takes dozens 20mm rounds to its wings and just leaks fuel/coolant but it never loses his wings or engines. It just keeps going.

Edited by LLv34_Taku
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It's the team's lack of teamwork.

 

 

 

You get the point, BRAVO!

 

VVS doesn't need at all team play with this kinde of aircrafts and gunners.

 

This is what's going on online usually with Pe-2. We would need all the Luftwaffe to engage a Pe-2 Squadron.

 

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/1126561/?tour=15

Edited by 150GCT_Veltro
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Veltro,

 

I would suggest that you try the PE-2 in WOL and see how durable it is, as according to the WOL stats you have never flown VVS in this server.  Perhaps if you can appreciate the pros/cons of the PE-2 and watch how other players attack you when you are in the rear gunner, you might realise how not to attack a PE-2.  It always amazes me watching players sit directly behind the PE-2 hoping that they will not get hit.  The Pe-2 rear gun is not a little gun and it has a high rate of fire (with very limited ammo).  

I'm sure if you started a forum asking "How to and How not to attack a PE-2" you will get a lot of help and assistance.

 

Regards

 

Haza

Edited by Haza
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Disable AI gunners from all bombers so that bomber pilots would have to use gunners by themselves or fly with multicrew. Even if that would be as effective it would be less annoying to get shot down by gunners controlled by human players.  

 

If PE-2's damage model is fine then it is flown by cheaters. It takes dozens 20mm rounds to its wings and just leaks fuel/coolant but it never loses his wings or engines. It just keeps going.

 

 

Disable AI gunners from all bombers so that bomber pilots would have to use gunners by themselves or fly with multicrew. Even if that would be as effective it would be less annoying to get shot down by gunners controlled by human players.  

 

If PE-2's damage model is fine then it is flown by cheaters. It takes dozens 20mm rounds to its wings and just leaks fuel/coolant but it never loses his wings or engines. It just keeps going.

 

Sorry to disagree, but I have witnessed many times mainplanes coming off PE-2s, although not as offend as the BF110.  However, today B0SS in a PE-2 lost his RightHand Mainplane from a short burst fired by TWB Dillion_Biz.  Perhaps if you tried a different attack approach/tactic you might get better results.  I for one take offence that you imply all PE-2 guys are cheats.  I for one have been killed many times in a PE-2, however, it is by somebody who knows how to attack a PE-2 and not those that just assume that you can come up behind it sit on its short 6 and "waste it" without worrying about being hit.  I recall reading about a historical account of a BF109 pilot who was killed by a rear-gunner in an IL-2.  I guess that IL2 pilot was cheating as well. 

 

Therefore contact Dillion and ask for some tips regarding attacking a PE-2.

 

Regards

 

Haza

Edited by Haza

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Veltro,

 

I would suggest that you try the PE-2 in WOL and see how durable it is, as according to the WOL stats you have never flown VVS in this server.  Perhaps if you can appreciate the pros/cons of the PE-2 and watch how other players attack you when you are in the rear gunner, you might realise how not to attack a PE-2.  It always amazes watching players sit directly behind the PE-2 hoping that they will not get hit.  The Pe-2 rear gun is not a little gun and it has a high rate of fire (with very limited ammo).  

I'm sure if you started a forum asking "How to and How not to attack a PE-2" you will get a lot of help and assistance.

 

Regards

 

Haza

 

 

Indeed, however you should also to considere the common sense. We know that Pe-2 was a great aircraft, a marvellous tactical machine, and we perfectly know where LW guys make it wrong, me included, but really there's something exaggerated here with Pe-2.

Make it fine or wrong, we need really too many 20mm to put it out of combat, and the gunner are incredible skilled in the aim/sniping capabilities, without considering the effect of the gunner's machine gun. This wepons did have high rate of fire ecc. ecc., ok is fine, but we fire MG151/20.....so.....

 

It's not acceptable, really. You need more than an improved team work and skill here, when VVS doesn't need it all by now.

 

We know how we should have to attack this bird (the same for B-17, from 45° - 3/4), but this is not a Flying Fortress. You fly a medium bomber, not a B-17.

Edited by 150GCT_Veltro
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Was just replying to that stupid comment about "Lack of teamwork yadayadayada". Short burst of 7.62mm to 109's engine puts it away which is propably fine. Multiple 20mm rounds to PE-2's engines and it just leaks something but keeps going and shoots down enemy fighters left and right.

 

Aiming from gunner positions in bombers is way too easy in this game and using AI to do it is just stupid in "realistic" multiplayer ww2 simulation. 

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Indeed, however you should also to considere the common sense. We know that Pe-2 was a great aircraft, a marvellous tactical machine, and we perfectly know where LW guys make it wrong, me included, but really there's something exaggerated here with Pe-2.

Make it fine or wrong, we need really too many 20mm to put it out of combat, and the gunner are incredible skilled in the aim/sniping capabilities, without considering the effect of the gunner's machine gun. This wepons did have high rate of fire ecc. ecc., ok is fine, but we fire MG151/20.....so.....

 

It's not acceptable, really. You need more than an improved team work and skill here, when VVS doesn't need it all by now.

 

We know how we should have to attack this bird (the same for B-17, from 45° - 3/4), but this is not a Flying Fortress. You fly a medium bomber, not a B-17.

 

Perhaps the simple answer is that Blues just need bomber players.  However, when you look at the stats without looking at which side has won, it looks very close regarding targets hit or aircraft downed, so although VVS have won more I do not think that they have won by a big margin.

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I normally fly vvs but took axis birds last night and i will honestly say it is a little harder to bomb with axis but the team focus makes all the difference! Vvs like to bomb axis like to dick about at6k.

 

Ps after having flown both I don't think one is op! It is just better! Axis have good fighters vvs have good bombers! Axis needs to learn what fighters are for......

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Was just replying to that stupid comment about "Lack of teamwork yadayadayada". Short burst of 7.62mm to 109's engine puts it away which is propably fine. Multiple 20mm rounds to PE-2's engines and it just leaks something but keeps going and shoots down enemy fighters left and right.

 

Aiming from gunner positions in bombers is way too easy in this game and using AI to do it is just stupid in "realistic" multiplayer ww2 simulation. 

 

I would suggest you try the PE-2 and get somebody to hit you with accurate 20mm rounds whilst you try and fly and gun in all the positions.

Then let me know how "way to easy" it is in this game.

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Was just replying to that stupid comment about "Lack of teamwork yadayadayada"

 

 

Keep  that kind of wording to yourself ok ?

 

It's my opinion that the lack of team work is THE problem. It's my opinion and you'd better respect it as much as I'd respect yours.

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We know how we should have to attack this bird (the same for B-17, from 45° - 3/4), but this is not a Flying Fortress. You fly a medium bomber, not a B-17.

 

 

I want to cross a road. Two cases:

1) I see a truck coming

2) I see a small car coming

 

 

Would I cross the road in case 2 because it's less dangerous than in case 1?

No.

 

Apply the same principle to all planes with gunners, problem solved  :sleep:

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Frankly my Pe-2 has been shot up in 1 passes rather few times, i would not say its the problem of the plane but rather the fact that germans dont like flying ground attackers. + when I fly german and bomb a ground target i usually get swarmed on my way there or back whilst the other way around i can loiter in the area for a few minutes before anyone would bother to show up... might be just my luck but thats my experience from the limited time i spent online in this sim :)

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Why we're even having this discussion?

 

Isn't this like basic rule to not go after a bomber straight at his 6 o clock? If you do this, be prepared for consequences.

As for the 3xbf109 needed for 1 peshka - u  saying that it requires more or less 600x 20mms rounds to kill a peshka?

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The Pe-2 has a 50. cal in the back, which is why it's so dangerous, but that shouldn't be a problem if you attack it the right way. Come in from the front-side, like this.

 

62hHUHp.jpg

Edited by Cybermat47

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LOOK AT THE VIDEO PLEASE

 

...and answer yourself why VVS win every mission on WoL.

 

We know where we are wrong, we know we have to improve our aim skill ecc. ecc., we are not noob, but the situation now is really exaggerated if not ridiculous.

Edited by 150GCT_Veltro
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This is what's going on online usually with Pe-2. We would need all the Luftwaffe to engage a Pe-2 Squadron.

 

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/1126561/?tour=15

 

:o:  :o:  :mellow:  :dry: I feel sad when I see this, because I think I'm flying better market simulator

 

and seeing this, I feel that it is the best simulator market, Russian aircraft

 

I think everyone who flew as Germans are aware of the ability of all Russians to withstand more damage to make more damage to be faster and to go further aircraft.

 

 

Russians need your 

 

got here further
got here higher
got here stronger
got here faster
 
the enemy will flee from you 

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It would be interesting to have statistics about aircrafts shotdown by Pe's gunners and about German bombers's gunners.

 

It 's really strange that on Focke with 6 guns (4 20mm) rarely I kill the gunners or pilots of Pe, while the russians with a few shots from 6 o'clock kill gunners and pilot of a Ju 88 or H111.

 

It 's really strange :negative:

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I normally fly vvs but took axis birds last night and i will honestly say it is a little harder to bomb with axis but the team focus makes all the difference! Vvs like to bomb axis like to dick about at6k.

 

Ps after having flown both I don't think one is op! It is just better! Axis have good fighters vvs have good bombers! Axis needs to learn what fighters are for......

With axis bombers you dont even need to aim 500+ kg bombs do the aiming for you... not buying the "red bombers are better"

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I normally fly vvs but took axis birds last night and i will honestly say it is a little harder to bomb with axis but the team focus makes all the difference! Vvs like to bomb axis like to dick about at6k.

 

Ps after having flown both I don't think one is op! It is just better! Axis have good fighters vvs have good bombers! Axis needs to learn what fighters are for......

 

AeroAce,

 

Just had a look at your WOL stats. As it would appear that you didn't hit anything in both JU88 sorties so far this month, did you drop bombs or did you not get to target before the end of the game? Or are you referring to time spent in an other server?  

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Just seen the video.

The difference is that the BF110 runs is diving head on for target with AAA.

Peshkas examples are level flight over the airfield.

 

It looks like the wing damage to BF110 is overdone. I don't know if AAA used by germans and russians are the same caliber.

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:o:  :o:  :mellow:  :dry: I feel sad when I see this, because I think I'm flying only market simulator

 

 

fixed

 

the lack of products is the real problem on combat russiasim

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Really guys, please. I bump this video.

 

This video is 6 months old, I believe the devs did some tweaking to the me110 damage model since then.

 

Can someone please do a re-evaluation of this.

Edited by novicebutdeadly

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More detailed access to stats would go a long way to providing some context to this argument.

 

I'm sure those who run the dedicated servers with stats would be able to calculate things like - 

- average aircraft K/D ratios by plane

- average ground target K/D ratios per plane

- average sortie time per plane

 

 

Possibly even average hits per kill?

 

 

Pe2 with its combination of speed, durability and gunner firepower give it a perfect ability to get to target and drop ordinance. Only when its slow and turning is there a real opportunity to take one down.

Distance to target also does not provide the Luftwaffe fighters with many opportunities to set up repeat off angle attacks with high probability of hits.

 

Another interesting statistic would be the number of Pe2 sorties vs IL2 and whether that lines up historically with actual ratios of planes historically.

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BF-110 is better now, a bit better, but you still lose wing by flak quite easily. However, we need more hours of flight to confirm this. Nothing has been reported as changed for Pe-2, and we can confirm this without any doubts. It's a Flying Fortress.

 

BF-110 was ridiculous before 2.004 because of the paper wing problem, and this was (is?) another killer for a "tactical/strategic approach" to the game.

 

I dont think however, 110 is just a bit less durable than Pe-2 as reported in the readme. We'll see flying online. For sure you can take more fire from VVS fighters, and this is fine but we need to remember how many times we have asked for a fix, as for how many times we have been answered "You're wrong, it's fine how it is". We hope we don't have to wait so many time also for a Pe-2 fix.

 

This is not an arena game but a flight WW2 combat sim. We need somenthing that make a sense for a tactical/strategic approach to the game, or the online campaigns we'll not have sense at all.

Edited by 150GCT_Veltro
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What this thread lacks in reasoned analysis it more than makes up for in pointless rhetoric and amusing sentence structure. 

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Pe 2 doesnt want to be shot down and shots down two BF 109
One Bf 109, maybe both, collides with Pe2 but nothing happens for the russian, only german fighters fall down.

In the mission report I red that Pe2 was hit by 200 shots but his gunners and pilot were safe and sound.

Unfortunately, these things are the normality, but it should not be so.

There is something to change...

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Can someone please do a re-evaluation of this.

 

Look at video in post #23.

 

 

BF-110 is better now, a bit better, but you still lose wing by flak quite easily.

Only to 25mm Flak. Other calibers dont do much damage. 

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Pe 2 doesnt want to be shot down and shots down two BF 109

One Bf 109, maybe both, collides with Pe2 but nothing happens for the russian, only german fighters fall down.

In the mission report I red that Pe2 was hit by 200 shots but his gunners and pilot were safe and sound.

Unfortunately, these things are the normality, but it should not be so.

There is something to change...

 

I feel some benny hill music would have been a nice soundtrack for those 109 aces  :lol:

 

1) Kind of bad strategy/tactics/aim, most hits were probably low caliber 

2)I don't see a collision

3)Gunners look dead

 

As many have said. Fly a Pe2 for a while. You'll see it's not all sunshine and rainbows...

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Even a P-40 can shoot my HE-111 down in about 30 secs but in my PE-2 I always get back

to base no matter what attacks me to target or on the way back.

 

Love the speed of the PE-2 also you can attack multiple times during a mission the HE-111

you do not do nearly as many sorties per server mission.

 

 

That PE-2 in the video is tougher than my PE-2 flights and don't forget the Russian aircraft

is painted a kryptonite green to give it additional power.

 

The HE-111 is imo the easiest plane to shoot down in this game when I am flying it.

 

I fair better and go farther in the Stuka sometimes.

Edited by WTornado

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1) 200 shots scored without ever hitting the crew is one thing to the twilight zone, as is becoming this "sim"

2) I saw the action and they collided with Pe, you there werent infact I didnt see you.

    German pilots are a very good pilots with excellent stats, better than mine or your stats.

    We don talk about strategy, maybe the strategy was wrong but 200 shots scored on Pe remain.

3) All gunners after 200 hit should die or be injured, maybe 1 gunner was killed in the last attack or, but I m not sure, has tried to hit me while Pe fall down.

 

For you it's all right,I respect your opinion but I dont agree with you, so you should rispect who doesnt think like you.

Infact for me as for others it isnt all right.

In fact there are serious discussions and I dont want to think that there are people in bad faith who dont take consideration.

However there is something to change, maybe removing all german aircraft...

Edited by ITAF_Cymao

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Feels like 20mm rounds are exploding outside of the wing/structure and doing very little damage.

 

 

It's since i hit something for the first time that I ask to myself why the explosions are a meter or two behind the enemy plane.

Edited by 72sq_Savinio

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Ive flown both sides extensively.

 

Its far easier to win on the VVS side even with just a little bit of cooperation.

 

I am also convinced the RED planes are far more robust than the LW planes. They also handle a lot better even when badly damaged. I cannot count how many times I have gone down in flames or without a wing in a LW bomber with just a single pass from a VVS fighter. The PE2 is a steel flying machine that is tougher than a tank.

 

This is all just my humble opinion.

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