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Tailwheelbrownbear

FW190 : How to fly - Please ignore or delete this -

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Hi all:

I just got back into the 190 and I tried doing basic maneouvers. The plane barely stays at 350kmh as soon as I try any turns. I manage to get it up to 450 in straight level flight, but I attempt a gentle 360 turn and the thing drops to 350kh and then starts stalling and spinning. Trying to do loops, or anything other than straight or huge turns results in this thing flopping and snapping around all over the place. Any rudder sends the plane into a krazy spin that is ridiculously hard to get out of. What the heck am I doing wrong? Honestly it feels like I'm in a  me210 /  hs 129 hybrid. Of all the planes in this game, this one just feels messed up. I don't feel confident flying this plane gently, let alone in combat.  I apply gentle control input but it acts like I am jerking the controls around. ???

2400m 1.3ata I only get 300kmh. Is that right? what am I doing wrong?

Do I need to re-install my FW ? I am very good at spiraling this brick into the ground. And the more I fly it, the more my kids learn swear words.

I spent the last hour getting my butt kicked by a P-40 set at novice.

Really truly I can't imagine the Luftwaffe ever shot down even 1 spitfire with this ***** ** * ***** * * *** * *** *** **.

I would rather have a FW 189 than this plane, I truly hate flying it.

Sigh. I'm so upset now.

Mig 3 is easier to fly. I tried it for the first time tonight and was able to shoot down 2 P40's (not bragging just comparing). This bird is tough to fly but I don't feel suicidal getting behind the stick. wow landing and taxing in this beast is a handful...

Edited by Tailwheelbrownbear
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Not to mention 2400m is right in the middle of the lag zone, so your engine isn't getting maximum HP there. On the deck to 1800m and above 2700m (but below 6000m) is where it seems to make the best HP.

 

Other than that, I'd say add sit me curves to your joystick and rudder (if you have pedals). The aircraft responds to smaller movements better than other aircraft so larger movements will put it into a stall easily. As far as energy retention, it's good, but just make sure not to burn too much when you turn. Also, adding deadzones to the rudder axis can help too, but these things are all up to personal preference.

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Not to mention 2400m is right in the middle of the lag zone, so your engine isn't getting maximum HP there. On the deck to 1800m and above 2700m (but below 6000m) is where it seems to make the best HP.

 

Other than that, I'd say add sit me curves to your joystick and rudder (if you have pedals). The aircraft responds to smaller movements better than other aircraft so larger movements will put it into a stall easily. As far as energy retention, it's good, but just make sure not to burn too much when you turn. Also, adding deadzones to the rudder axis can help too, but these things are all up to personal preference.

Yes, 2500 is the weak zone for that plane. But to the extent that I can't control the plane? Hmmm... In an inverse immelman, you would think the plane would be stable. Smooooth gentle transitions, no quick jerks, but that 190 will just kick out from under me, no matter how gentle. I don't use dead zones, I just be careful and light on the controls. No other plane behaves like this. And I'm not pulling the stick hard, barely 1/3 or 1/2 what I could pull and she's out of control. If it were a controller issue, then all the other planes would behave similarly.

Ya, I've seen that. And my experience verses what I've read are totally opposite. I just don't get it.

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Tailwheelbrownbear, to help you to understand the debate around this mythic plane I will do a summary of the hundred threads and  thousand of posts for you : 

 

- In general those topics will turn bad really quickly between the pro and cons, and will endlessly loop 

- Yes because FW topic with 2 or 3 pages is not a FW topic (they reach easily >15/20 pages in general)

- If you are searching for historic of those topic, check out for "closed topics" first, otherwise FM section 

- People flying exclusively red side will ask you for evidence, references, data 

- Blue side will share common sense of what they read from the history (from both sides writings)

- Red side will argue this is biased and not based on figures 

- The conclusion will be that we have not enough "data" and that we have to rely on the very few that have been found

- We will be asked to discuss the subject in the appropriate sub-forum 

- Everybody is happy with the 190 except those flying her, not a big problem since it's a minority 

- The majority is happy with the 190 the problem is that they mostly fly red side (except 190 hero) 

- 2 or 3 FW hero will post post its videos showing that we should "learn to fly the FW in it's flight domain" 

- Others will post their compilation of "check out my lethal pass guys" (in general red planes caught by surprise...)    

- You will have the unavoidable "I fly Cessna or Rally or ULM in real life, SO I can swear the 190 is not porked"  

- Some common sense guys will tell them that you can be successful with the actual 190, but that does not mean it flies as it should

- I will add that I can also be successful with the FW but walking on eggshells for a long session takes out the pleasure to fly her 

- I will say how much it makes me sick of seeing my favorite plane being trashed, with so much energy degradation to reach max speed 

- Some will tell "we will wait and buy the A5, maybe it will be improved" ... wrong debate. We are speaking of the A3 ! 

- I will add that even if the 2.004 is a brand new improvement it won't make me change my mind : nobody will force me to fly a flatiron

- The majority of old 190 frequent flyers will be tired of struggling about the subject and will stay silent and quiet, unfortunately  

- We will come back to the pre-patch and the post patch debate  

- The two side will agree pre & post are based on same "global criteria" and "roughly" match the historic FM of the 190

- That in  the post-patch version the characteristics have been pushed too far .... to the limit, just find an average ... a consensus      

- Before the dramatic patch all people agreed to say that 190 was right because ... muhahaha ...   Devs they are always right 

- Since the new patch the exact same people claim that the new one is the good one because  ... muhahaha ...  Devs they are always right

 

And finally Jason will confirm that 190 FM did not changed in 2.004... muhahaha ...  so you see Devs & producer are always right

 

Cheers

Mad

 

 

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Im really interested in the A5 it should be the same if not worse.

What you guys think about it?

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Hi all:

I just got back into the 190 and I tried doing basic maneouvers. The plane barely stays at 350kmh as soon as I try any turns. I manage to get it up to 450 in straight level flight, but I attempt a gentle 360 turn and the thing drops to 350kh and then starts stalling and spinning. Trying to do loops, or anything other than straight or huge turns results in this thing flopping and snapping around all over the place. Any rudder sends the plane into a krazy spin that is ridiculously hard to get out of. What the heck am I doing wrong? Honestly it feels like I'm in a  me210 /  hs 129 hybrid. Of all the planes in this game, this one just feels messed up. I don't feel confident flying this plane gently, let alone in combat.  I apply gentle control input but it acts like I am jerking the controls around. ???

2400m 1.3ata I only get 300kmh. Is that right? what am I doing wrong?

Do I need to re-install my FW ? I am very good at spiraling this brick into the ground. And the more I fly it, the more my kids learn swear words.

I spent the last hour getting my butt kicked by a P-40 set at novice.

Really truly I can't imagine the Luftwaffe ever shot down even 1 spitfire with this ***** ** * ***** * * *** * *** *** **.

I would rather have a FW 189 than this plane, I truly hate flying it.

Sigh. I'm so upset now.

Mig 3 is easier to fly. I tried it for the first time tonight and was able to shoot down 2 P40's (not bragging just comparing). This bird is tough to fly but I don't feel suicidal getting behind the stick. wow landing and taxing in this beast is a handful...

 

I had exactly the same problem as you. I lost a lot of speed in turns and was never able to reach top speed while flying straight. I tryed a lot of diffrent curves but i had only limeted sucess with them. What changed the game for me was when i bought a 15 cm extension for my Warthog joystick suddenly i could fly the FW 190 without any curves for the Joystick. I can now understand why some people have only trouble with the FW 190 and others never encounter any such problems.

I must be a problem that has to do with the Joysticks used at least to a very large part. Whit the standart Warthog i was not able to make small enough movements and what i thought to be small moves with my joystick were in game already to much movement and i basicly overreacted every time which slowed me down and let me wobbling all over the place. I gets worse when you get into a dogfight were you had less time to concentraed on your movement whit your joystick.

Edited by Gunsmith86

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Its simpe. 
Fix unrealistic, broken, FM. Then it will be easy as 109. But devs havent time. (It is sad because this is important). So hope for next patch.. or sell game. :salute:

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OP, you will see A LOT of people blaming the plane. It is easier than to question the pilot's flying ablities.

Listening to them or not is entirely up to you.

 

The simple fact is : The P40 is no threat to the FW 190, especially if set on novice. If you struggle in that scenario there is probably something wrong on your end. Joystick settings or flying style.

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Fly the 109..... or the LA-5:solution found.

If you start questioning all te wierd things

in this game you will be making a lot of posts.

 

....fly the 109 the 109 flys well.

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I am nowhere near being any kind of authority in fighter combat, much less in a FW-190, but when you always hear the same stuff about not hitting certain speed thresholds, I start to wonder:

Do they even care about the basics? Like trimming the plane? Or taking care of slip? Et cetera.

There are videos around that show the FW performing quite well, when used properly. The "informed" consensus seems to be that it is okay, but violent stall behavior seems to be a little off still.

Edited by Redroach

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Fly the 109..... or the LA-5:solution found.

If you start questioning all te wierd things

in this game you will be making a lot of posts.

 

....fly the 109 the 109 flys well.

This is the end of planeset diversity, does not reflect the reality of the theater of operation and this is not the solution m8 ! 

Waiting for the A5 neither ...

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OP, you will see A LOT of people blaming the plane. It is easier than to question the pilot's flying ablities.

 

Listening to them or not is entirely up to you.

 

The simple fact is : The P40 is no threat to the FW 190, especially if set on novice. If you struggle in that scenario there is probably something wrong on your end. Joystick settings or flying style.

 

You always come back to the pilots flying abilities !

 

Everyone can be successful flying the FW 190 of course, but that does not mean it flies as it should

I'm far being an Ace, one year ago in November 2015  (before progressively stopping flying the 190) I was able to align 22 streaks on WoL with the 190 and SO WHAT... ?  that does not prove anything and this is not preventing me from being objective. 

:salute:

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You always come back to the pilots flying abilities !

 

That's because it's usually the problem

 

 

 

Everyone can be successful flying the FW 190 of course, but that does not mean it flies as it should

 

And vice-versa, just because some people aren't successful with it doesn't mean it's wrong.

 

 

Simple fact IMO, there is more WORK TO BE DONE on pilots than on the FMs.

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I apologize for starting this thread. I don't think it was useful and I did it more so out of frustration.

I doubt I'm that bad a flyer or my joystick is that badly set up to negate my ability to fly.

Maybe I am that bad.. but I doubt considering I am not useless in other aircraft.

 

I have taken down a couple 109's in my Lagg 3 online, but not a lot. I don't play online much. I was in the middle of flying a 190 campaign when they 'upgraded' the 190. And during that time playing online in that plane just became torture, so basically I stuck to SP campaign and did ground pounding.

 

one last gasp before I relegated the FW 190 to be just a faster Ju 87.

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As the RL 190 was known then as a 'beginners' plane, not as demanding as the 109, I wonder if the Corsair, known as 'ensign-killer', should it appear at one time in this game, would be flyable at all. :D

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Tailwheelbrownbear, having been away from this sim for the better part of 1-2 years, I used to enjoy flying the 190 a lot. Took a little getting used to but I was able to handle her pretty well and be successful with it. Having spotted this thread and then reading it I was intrigued to try her out again. Wow, I can totally relate to what you are saying. Very different bird from what I remember, yes, my aging brain and memory aren't what they used to be but none of the things I was able to do effortlessly before were I able to reproduce right now. My joystick settings are the same (never deleted things from that gaming hard drive so none of my settings have changed from when I had "perfected" them for myself) and work just like they did for the other planes I've tried. Like you, I don't seem to notice much difference in the other planes from what I remember, though I've been concentrating on mostly flying the new ones that I just got with BOM. Is it right or wrong? No friggin' clue, but it seems a lot harder to fly/fight with than I remember it being before.

 

And I have to agree with Rekt that I feel it's more suited to engaging Pe-2s, and IL-2s than P-40s in turning fights but what do I know, I just pretend I'm a pilot in front of a PC. :D

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This actually turned out to be a very good thread about the Fw190, with nice and well written / informative posts.

 

The 190 A-3 continues to be probably my preferred Axis fighter. In the Allied side I am now trying to learn the p40-e, and it's giving me a hell of a great time exploring ... The other one I fell in love for the first time I flew it is the LagG3, but among all fighters, my attention is always captured by the A-3 silhouette when it's time to pick one fighter at any MP server.

 

I have learned somehow how to take the most out of it's advantages, which to exist at middle altitudes, and provided we use it mostly through B&Z...

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As the RL 190 was known then as a 'beginners' plane
 

 

Like the RL beginners that flew the 190 in 1944 in the ETO?

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Hi all:

I just got back into the 190 and I tried doing basic maneouvers. The plane barely stays at 350kmh as soon as I try any turns. I manage to get it up to 450 in straight level flight, but I attempt a gentle 360 turn and the thing drops to 350kh and then starts stalling and spinning. Trying to do loops, or anything other than straight or huge turns results in this thing flopping and snapping around all over the place. Any rudder sends the plane into a krazy spin that is ridiculously hard to get out of. What the heck am I doing wrong? Honestly it feels like I'm in a  me210 /  hs 129 hybrid. Of all the planes in this game, this one just feels messed up. I don't feel confident flying this plane gently, let alone in combat.  I apply gentle control input but it acts like I am jerking the controls around. ???

2400m 1.3ata I only get 300kmh. Is that right? what am I doing wrong?

Do I need to re-install my FW ? I am very good at spiraling this brick into the ground. And the more I fly it, the more my kids learn swear words.

I spent the last hour getting my butt kicked by a P-40 set at novice.

Really truly I can't imagine the Luftwaffe ever shot down even 1 spitfire with this ***** ** * ***** * * *** * *** *** **.

I would rather have a FW 189 than this plane, I truly hate flying it.

Sigh. I'm so upset now.

Mig 3 is easier to fly. I tried it for the first time tonight and was able to shoot down 2 P40's (not bragging just comparing). This bird is tough to fly but I don't feel suicidal getting behind the stick. wow landing and taxing in this beast is a handful...

copy. 190 is IMHO an unflyable brick as it stands right now. One on one CO/E encounter you either run or die. Thats the simple truth.

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Fly the 109..... or the LA-5:solution found.

If you start questioning all te wierd things

in this game you will be making a lot of posts.

 

....fly the 109 the 109 flys well.

I agree, fly the 109, but it is also strange, it seems who has an iron ball running into it, lol
 
This game is weird, and another, will always blame your joy or your flying skills ....

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Someone could teach you how you fly this plane in this game and how to become efficient with it, but the sad thing is that you don't get the feeling that you are flying the plane that you have read and heard about. 

It is not the plane that forced RAF to stop their circus flights over the channel. Not the plane that accepted badly outnumbered dogfights against RAF, while Bf109's had been used for one pass and disengage tactics in similar situations. When you read the descriptions and watch the schemes of how Luftwaffe pilots used it against these circus flights, using it's superior rolling and yo-yo's to more than counter Spitfire's turning ability - trying this in the game would leave you so slow and out of energy that it would be just suicide to use that tactics in the middle of dozens of Spitfires. 

Sure, you can develop tactics that work in this game, but it just does not feel like a flight sim of the Fw190 that you have read about.

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Could we get the individual joystick curves for each aircraft like in ROF?

That would help pilots set up for the 190, I have flown it quite well (offline I am useless

fighter pilot) but the curves and endpoints I used were painfull for everything else.

It's like with my RC aircraft, each one needs a different setup with the TX, at the 

moment BOX is like using one setup for all of them.

my .02 cents AU(.0005 cent USD)

spud

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@@Tailwheelbrownbear 

 

 

This is the end of planeset diversity, does not reflect the reality of the theater of operation and this is not the solution m8 ! 

Waiting for the A5 neither ...

 

 

 

I agree, fly the 109, but it is also strange, it seems who has an iron ball running into it, lol
 
This game is weird, and another, will always blame your joy or your flying skills ....

 

 

 

 I am very serious learn to fly the Bf-109 and it will surprise you just how well

you will master it when you get some flying experience in.

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Could we get the individual joystick curves for each aircraft like in ROF?

That would help pilots set up for the 190, I have flown it quite well (offline I am useless

fighter pilot) but the curves and endpoints I used were painfull for everything else.

It's like with my RC aircraft, each one needs a different setup with the TX, at the 

moment BOX is like using one setup for all of them.

my .02 cents AU(.0005 cent USD)

spud

I though about that, adjusting my joystick to have different curves per plane. But don't the devs put in stick characteristics per aircraft? So this would make different aircraft 'feel' different under the stick. I prefer that as then I have to learn different aircraft individually. Plus then I get a better sense for the work the dev's have put into the game. For me, the subtleties are part of the charm of this sim. That includes back to when I was playing 1946, I just gave the stick 100% across the board and learned each machine.

 

That's different though when this plane behaves like it does. I go into a spin and finally get the thing straightened out, slowly ease off on the stick fighting a right spin when all  of a sudden, with throttle off and no control input, the thing spontaneously flips into a left spin. Usually, when you let go of the controls the plane just goes straight. The best analogy would be like balancing a metal marble on a metal rod. It's maddening.

@@Tailwheelbrownbear

 

 

 

 

 

 

 I am very serious learn to fly the Bf-109 and it will surprise you just how well

you will master it when you get some flying experience in.

The 109 is stick candy. I have no problem with that aircraft.

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I had exactly the same problem as you. I lost a lot of speed in turns and was never able to reach top speed while flying straight. I tryed a lot of diffrent curves but i had only limeted sucess with them. What changed the game for me was when i bought a 15 cm extension for my Warthog joystick suddenly i could fly the FW 190 without any curves for the Joystick. I can now understand why some people have only trouble with the FW 190 and others never encounter any such problems.

I must be a problem that has to do with the Joysticks used at least to a very large part. Whit the standart Warthog i was not able to make small enough movements and what i thought to be small moves with my joystick were in game already to much movement and i basicly overreacted every time which slowed me down and let me wobbling all over the place. I gets worse when you get into a dogfight were you had less time to concentraed on your movement whit your joystick.

 

 

 

Based on my experience with this series so far, unlike in IL2: 1946 or other older flight sims, if you move your controllers to their stops, you will at best bleed a lot of energy or at worst lose control of the kite. This sim really takes a light touch on the controls.

 

Good hunting,

=CFC=Conky

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Based on my experience with this series so far, unlike in IL2: 1946 or other older flight sims, if you move your controllers to their stops, you will at best bleed a lot of energy or at worst lose control of the kite. This sim really takes a light touch on the controls.

 

Good hunting,

=CFC=Conky

Yes with the light touch on the controls there you are right and when i have this problem many others that are not experts in flying will proberbly have it too. As for the stop on the joystick i never had to move it that far it was like 100% of in game controle movement with only 30% movement on the joystick even with curves it was just ok but far from what its now with my 15cm extantion.

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OP, you will see A LOT of people blaming the plane. It is easier than to question the pilot's flying ablities.

 

Listening to them or not is entirely up to you.

 

The simple fact is : The P40 is no threat to the FW 190, especially if set on novice. If you struggle in that scenario there is probably something wrong on your end. Joystick settings or flying style.

 

But even a Novice can be deadly ;-)

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Yes, the pilots fresh out of advanced training.

 

They were shot down in droves, so it being a'beginners' plane doesn't seem to have helped them much.

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They were shot down in droves, so it being a'beginners' plane doesn't seem to have helped them much.

 

It helped them to takeoff safely, accomplish their missions and especially when there were no fight, and finally, to land safely.

 

Flying a "beginner friendly" plane does not give you some über-combat-skill by magic when you sit in the cockpit, you know ?

 

Ever heard about the number of 109s that crashed at takeoff ? Guess why.

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It helped them to takeoff safely, accomplish their missions and especially when there were no fight, and finally, to land safely.

 

Flying a "beginner friendly" plane does not give you some über-combat-skill by magic when you sit in the cockpit, you know ?

 

 

 

 That's exactly how I understand it, and in that way our in game 190 matches pretty well doesn't it.

 

That doesn't mean that the FM is correct; but alluding to what happened historically with this (or any plane) without taking into account all the other factors that also played a part, makes no sense,   

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I haven't fly this game in a long time because the FW190 was totally bad, now after many months I came here and see that nothing changed, looks like I will not be buying any other game from 777 because I don't like that my favorite plane is ignored becase the devs think that they are perfect and they have all the info provided by the winer side. Done with this

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The 190 is the worst airplane in the game (FM)

Can you tell us the "wrong" points of the Flight Model?

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Can you tell us the "wrong" points of the Flight Model?

I cant tell whats wrong. But I can tell what feelsTM wrong to me: Acceleration, relative rollperformance, dive, energyretention, far to viucious stalling.

 

Edited by Irgendjemand

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I cant tell whats wrong. But I can tell what feelsTM wrong to me: Acceleration, relative rollperformance, dive, energyretention, far to viucious stalling.
 

 

I'll quote one of the devs words here: "Nothing wrong, its only emotions...." 

 

 

 

:rolleyes:

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I'll quote one of the devs words here: "Nothing wrong, its only emotions...." 

 

 

 

:rolleyes:

 

I think we should have say that to all those who fell fighting this plane, remarkable how such a bad plane could make as many victims. even more astonishing the fact of not finding multiple fights stories about FW stalling and starting to spin when the Luftwaffe has not had time to properly train new pilots ....

Edited by Arsenal53

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I'll quote one of the devs words here: "Nothing wrong, its only emotions...." 

 

 

 

:rolleyes:

 

 

Well, then prove that they aren't only emotions, instead of mocking the developers like you do over and over again.

 

I'll quote one of the devs words here: 

 

"Anyway, as I've said many times before, rule is: in my PM box should be a message where will be:

1. Claim detailed description, which explain all aspects of the claim
2. Supporting historical technical sources like flight manuals, flight test reports and so on, with strict pointing page and line where we should look for proofs
3. Strict flight tests in game, which shows significant difference between game and historical source.
If it is - we start to investigate the claim. Two finals are possible:
1. We provide "our FM is ok" proofs
2. We fix the issue
I'm hope it's clear. And, actually, it works."

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