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52 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

Well I find it a bit boring the constant interest shown here in displaying their contempt on a sim they claim having no interest in. 

 

I find it amusing that people flying a semi arcadish game claim realism while doing it no matter the brand. 

When BOS was released it got patronized by jerks, now DCS got the same treatment but in a very much more arrogant tone. And it just get boring

People are pretty clannish in general, and the more they like something, the more they see criticism of the thing as criticism of themselves. I've seen a lot of arrogance from DCS guys as well, who are heavily invested in that brand and see people enjoying games like GB. We all like to pretend we're real pilots and its possible to lose perspective pretty easily. 

DCS is a study sim that focuses on the operation of the aircraft; Il-2 Great Battle is a combat sim that focuses on flying the aircraft in combat. Both do some things better than the other. GB has done a good job producing an experience of flying a variety of aircraft within theatres of war, providing consistent opponents, maps and historical campaigns. DCS simulates the details of aircraft operation very well. I think the reason that DCS WWII catches the flak it does (lol) is that the WWII planes just require a lot less workload to operate, so they have to rely on feeling of flight, flight modeling, combat, etc to get their money's worth. where GB is already very competitive or better. Once the cracks show in any facade its easier to pick it apart, people lose their suspension of disbelief, and then it becomes satisfying to tear something down. You see it with nitpickers in GB as well, where every small problem destroys immersion forever and they are just going to quit playing.

And it must be noted that for the budget conscious (such as small working class falcons like myself), DCS is something of a non-starter. If I can buy BoBP premium for 80 dollars and get 8 planes, a map, a career, and a lot of decent multiplayer opportunities, that's a better deal than purchasing one plane and a map to fly it on in DCS. If DCS was an order of magnitude better in flight modeling for WWII then it might be worth considering, but from the reviews I've seen of the WWII birds the flight modeling is pretty close.

Wrap this all up with people who have been waiting years for products with no updates or dealing with incomplete planes, and you have some (justified) bitterness thrown in to all this as well. 

To a certain extent its just Nintendo vs. Sega for flight sim geeks. Its all just vidya games folks! If you got the money you can have both, if you don't just pick one and don't integrate it so heavily into your identity.
 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

I've seen a lot of arrogance from DCS guys as well,

 

I am well aware of that. Cod  communities was on verge to ban those supporting BOS, now I see almost all of them fly GB. 

I am well aware of it, but now and then I burst reading it. 

What people here mock make sense but are equally criticized in DCS groups on fb.

I almost miss Lukes dead horse. 

I am well aware of DCS annoying priorities. 

But the latter writing here attack anyone getting close to enlighten shortcomings  of GB. And there are some. 

There is a black and white view going on. 

I fly all sims, and I do not dislike any of them. 

 

Edited by LuseKofte
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Posted (edited)

LuseK ? I do not know how we can save raaaid to take off & land:

 

 

Edited by RAY-EU
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Neato!

 

Almost enough to make me install DCS.

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7 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Neato!

 

Almost enough to make me install DCS.

 

Nice Big Ass Concrete Runways in DCS. Lots of them. :biggrin: 

 

Is that enough to push you over the edge?

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

 

Nice Big Ass Concrete Runways in DCS. Lots of them. :biggrin: 

 

Is that enough to push you over the edge?

 

Did you miss last dev update? :). Mind you, I love DCS as well.  However, with the upcoming western front map, British & American planes, the generic improvements and WW1 map I will definitely spend more time with IL2!

 

Airfield_2.jpg

Edited by SYN_Vander
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Time make me hesitate even touching some if the new carrier modules. Time availeable simply prevent any serious simming in GB and DCS 

but suddenly I got the urge

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1 hour ago, LuseKofte said:

Time make me hesitate even touching some if the new carrier modules. Time availeable simply prevent any serious simming in GB and DCS 

but suddenly I got the urge

 

The need for speed?

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Just now, LuseKofte said:

Yes but like in GB I never get to the landing part

 

Saves you time for practicing other things.

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11 hours ago, LuseKofte said:

Yes but like in GB I never get to the landing part

 

Can do the landing part in GB no problem but DCS?  More burst tyres I'm afraid.....:o:

 

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Posted (edited)

Dcs demand such dedication to operate a module that I sm a bit off marked.

I can see the thrill snd joy like a inmate looking out the window to freedom in a prison.

I  just have to think I get the time and urge to learn in a later stage. Its like I spend it sll on those I learned. But nothing beat a mission with the mighty eight

Still not bought th Viper and I will try to keep it that way. 

Edited by LuseKofte

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did you try that heavy weather ship landing in the gazelle ? @LuseKofte I wondered if it was more of a challenge for you ? Would love to see the recording if you made one

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On 8/23/2019 at 11:24 AM, ACG_Herne said:

did you try that heavy weather ship landing in the gazelle ? @LuseKofte I wondered if it was more of a challenge for you ? Would love to see the recording if you made one

 

I am currently in the progress of getting customed to VR again. Got myself a cheap Rift S and think it is fair to give it a chance. 

Like I stated before I am more comfortable flying with screen and find the transferring to be a bumpy one.  I remember the constant love and hate relationship I had with old rift in full force  

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Ugh... another interesting but completely unwarranted feature in the grand-scheme of things that need updating.

 

"Eventually", the DCS mantra.

 

Eventually you'll get multi-crew for the Huey (6 years later...). Eventually you'll get a decent weather engine. Eventually they'll fix the awful damage modeling across the board. Eventually they'll update the engine and move away from its current, awful, horrendous single thread use. Eventually they'll fix the netcode, scaling, atrocious spotting, dumb AI, the list goes on.

 

Quote

 

DCS is a 1999 Honda Civic with Ferrari rims, racing tires, a 7 foot tall spoiler, neon lights under the frame, an aftermarket media system, and 27 additional gauges in the interior of the car that tell you everything from your attitude on a hill, your amperage, to what gear you're in.

 

But it's still a 1999 Honda Civic

 

 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, DetCord12B said:

Ugh... another interesting but completely unwarranted feature in the grand-scheme of things that need updating.

 

 

DCS is a 1999 Honda Civic with Ferrari rims, racing tires, a 7 foot tall spoiler, neon lights under the frame, an aftermarket media system, and 27 additional gauges in the interior of the car that tell you everything from your attitude on a hill, your amperage, to what gear you're in.

 

But it's still a 1999 Honda Civic

 

 

 

Big improvement in the modeling of aerodynamics, in a flight sim, is unwarranted feature for you?

 

:wacko:   ok.

 

 

All combat flight sims are nothing but regurgitated old engines. This game is no different. 

 

 

Edited by Jaws2002

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I see there are houndreds of opinions on why they should not improve this and that. 

They are all ridiculous. Flightsim communities are topped up with experts. 

Not that I disagree many things got to be fixed or change. But the improvements we get should not stop for those reasons.  

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I know il2 has prop wash in so mode but is there wake turbulence as well?  And if so, why can’t we have it in mp??   

 

Ive been doing a lot of coop missions in dcs, and as harsh as the effect can be it’s makes the sim much more enjoyable....

 

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I wonder if those of us who are using DCS with VR could tell us about the performance they're getting at the moment?

 

A few weeks or perhaps a couple of months back we were told of a 'fifty per cent increase' in VR performance....or words to that effect.  Since then we must have had at least four or five minor updates to the game.  My impression was that the beta received an update that really did improve performance.  Subsequent updates seem to have decreased this performance increase.

Is anyone else noticing this?  I'm curious as I have two DCS installs; beta and stable versions.  My squaddies fly the stable version but until recently the beta gave better performance in VR.

I'd like to ditch the beta and save myself a vast amount of SSD space.

 

Any thoughts?

 

btw; this is a genuine question, not an invite to a punch up:)  

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18 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

I wonder if those of us who are using DCS with VR could tell us about the performance they're getting at the moment?

 

A few weeks or perhaps a couple of months back we were told of a 'fifty per cent increase' in VR performance....or words to that effect.  Since then we must have had at least four or five minor updates to the game.  My impression was that the beta received an update that really did improve performance.  Subsequent updates seem to have decreased this performance increase.

Is anyone else noticing this?  I'm curious as I have two DCS installs; beta and stable versions.  My squaddies fly the stable version but until recently the beta gave better performance in VR.

I'd like to ditch the beta and save myself a vast amount of SSD space.

 

Any thoughts?

 

btw; this is a genuine question, not an invite to a punch up:)  

 

I am running the Open Beta, and getting very good performance now in DCS with my Rift S.

Been practicing my carrier takeoffs and landings in the Hornet today in the Persian Gulf and am maintaining 80 fps

in my Rift S .

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On 8/31/2019 at 11:51 AM, Jaws2002 said:

 

 

Big improvement in the modeling of aerodynamics, in a flight sim, is unwarranted feature for you?

 

:wacko:   ok.

 

 

All combat flight sims are nothing but regurgitated old engines. This game is no different. 

 

 

 

A singular visualized and physics based system? Yeah mate, it's cool and all but completely superfluous. How often are you as a player actually going to experience this unless you're intentionally going nose to ass on another bird or specifically placing yourself into a hazardous situation? Almost never.

 

11 hours ago, LuseKofte said:

I see there are houndreds of opinions on why they should not improve this and that. 

They are all ridiculous. Flightsim communities are topped up with experts. 

Not that I disagree many things got to be fixed or change. But the improvements we get should not stop for those reasons.  

 

Love the ad-hom 'expert quip'. This isn't an improvement, its a completely new feature. New features are great and all, but if ED continues their time honored tradition of avoiding issues associated with their platform they'll just keep on keepin' on. It's kinda what they do. Shove things under the rug and, they're known for this.

 

The mainstay with regards to ED/DCS is they have no competition. Therefore they have minimal motivation to fix or improve the innumerable issues regarding the engine, of which people have been pointing out for years and years and years. Hell, they just launched dedicated servers, an aspect the user-base has been clamoring for since day one. It only took a decade to get that going...

 

I love DCS. But I'm sure as hell not going to lay down and suckle at the ED teat just because I love it. DCS has a lot of issues with regards to the platform, few of which have ever been addressed or tackled, and without pointing them out or addressing them the developers will continue to do the bare-minimum when it comes to investing in engine optimization and feature parity now seen with the likes of indie titles.

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9 hours ago, dburne said:

 

I am running the Open Beta, and getting very good performance now in DCS with my Rift S.

Been practicing my carrier takeoffs and landings in the Hornet today in the Persian Gulf and am maintaining 80 fps

in my Rift S .

That is really odd. We have very similar specs for rig, and I see fps fluctuating between 40-80 fps.
Sitting on ramp at Normandy in Spit, I see my fps fluctuate in 60's and 70's.

 

You literally just posted this on the DCS forums. I sure would love to see you run a mission from the big show campaign in the spit on normandy with those kind of framerates, please post a video as well. DCS is so incredibly cpu limited that using a 1080 or a 2080ti makes almost 0 difference in VR framerates.

 

 

Edited by JonRedcorn

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7 hours ago, JonRedcorn said:

Sitting on ramp at Normandy in Spit, I see my fps fluctuate in 60's and 70's.

Normandy map is a fps killer itself. Nevada and PG map is much smoother. 

 

9 hours ago, DetCord12B said:

 

A singular visualized and physics based system? Yeah mate, it's cool and all but completely superfluous. How often are you as a player actually going to experience this unless you're intentionally going nose to ass on another bird or specifically placing yourself into a hazardous situation? Almost never.

 

 

Love the ad-hom 'expert quip'. This isn't an improvement, its a completely new feature. New features are great and all, but if ED continues their time honored tradition of avoiding issues associated with their platform they'll just keep on keepin' on. It's kinda what they do. Shove things under the rug and, they're known for this.

 

The mainstay with regards to ED/DCS is they have no competition. Therefore they have minimal motivation to fix or improve the innumerable issues regarding the engine, of which people have been pointing out for years and years and years. Hell, they just launched dedicated servers, an aspect the user-base has been clamoring for since day one. It only took a decade to get that going...

 

I love DCS. But I'm sure as hell not going to lay down and suckle at the ED teat just because I love it. DCS has a lot of issues with regards to the platform, few of which have ever been addressed or tackled, and without pointing them out or addressing them the developers will continue to do the bare-minimum when it comes to investing in engine optimization and feature parity now seen with the likes of indie titles.

New feature is improvement but can also be a curse.

In this case a improvement. Automaticly you guys assume those making it can be put on what you mean should be done. In most cases that is not the case.

Every complaint in this topic has been said in numerous groups on facebook and in ED forum.

It is a known factor we all have to live by.

Meeting a new feature with attack simply is stupid.

I will ask Luke to come here to beat a dead horse. There is so many obvious faults and things to disagree on. But it is also a maximum amount of times the many issues got to be mentioned. 

Do like me say f***k loud and clear and turn off that game for a while when frustration get too high. And do something else. One have just to accept it for what it is  

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14 hours ago, DetCord12B said:

 How often are you as a player actually going to experience this unless you're intentionally going nose to ass on another bird or specifically placing yourself into a hazardous situation? Almost never.

 

On the contrary. With its current, very rough implementation, the effect throws me around severely every few seconds during dogfight, when following ever-looping AI warbirds in high-G turns. That's why I turned it off until they tweak it more (not to mention negative performance impact) 😄. I guess jet-head guys will have to take it into account when doing aerial refueling as well. All and all, every FM fidelity related update is welcomed, though I also wouldn't mind other aspects of the sim being updated as well.

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11 hours ago, LuseKofte said:

Normandy map is a fps killer itself. Nevada and PG map is much smoother. 

 

 

They have improved Normandy  a little of late, at least for VR - not as bad certainly as it used to be.

 

Yeah Persian Gulf is better - getting good performance there with my Rift S.

Have resumed my learning process of the Hornet. Got my controllers set back up for it and spent good part of the weekend with it.

Still a lot to learn for me though... Nailed a few carrier landings today which felt good anyway.

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The textures on that 190 cockpit still look bleh. 

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Im not getting good fps on the Normandy map at all. I will check actual fps numbers but i can tell without looking that it's struggling much more than on IL2.

 

In IL2 im doing 60fps (half of the 120 i have set the headset refresh) and sometimes it dips below. Using 140 or 150 SS iirc.

 

Using the Index, 2080ti OCd, 7700K OCd, 16GB DDR.

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12 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

I get about the same smoothness in PG map as I do in GB. 

 

Hmmm....not sure I can quite say the same but the PG map does seem to give the best VR performance out of all the DCS maps.

 

I should have put in my question;  don't worry about the Normandy map:).

 

Has DCS made any pronouncements on whats happening with VR performance or whats in the pipeline at the moment? 

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Not as I have seen. I think DCS never will be as smooth as GB.  When updates come you never really knows if it will bring havoc or improve. 

I many times feel like a scientific research mouse for codes firing up DCS after an update. 

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On 9/2/2019 at 8:35 AM, LuseKofte said:

Normandy map is a fps killer itself. Nevada and PG map is much smoother. 

 

New feature is improvement but can also be a curse.

Do like me say f***k loud and clear and turn off that game for a while when frustration get too high. And do something else. One have just to accept it for what it is  

 

Quote

In this case a improvement. Automaticly you guys assume those making it can be put on what you mean should be done. In most cases that is not the case.

 

I don't assume anything. That's you're own bias seeing and associating biases.

 

Spoiler

Every complaint in this topic has been said in numerous groups on facebook and in ED forum.

 

Yeah, a series of complaints or observations by a userbase clamoring for reform made almost a decade ago. Let that sink in for a moment, a friggin' decade, in which almost nothing has been done to address the rampant and glaring issues associated with the engine and to bring parity up to modern standards, let alone optimization. 

 

Spoiler

It is a known factor we all have to live by.

 

No you/we don't. This is what I don't understand. This nonchalant, uhh whatever, suck it up mentality when people talk about DCS. It's just so grossly negligent, abysmally lazy and is nothing but a free pass to ED to continue their time honored tradition of never, ever, addressing anything. Stop enabling them.

 

Spoiler

Meeting a new feature with attack simply is stupid.

 

No its not. New features are great and all, but introducing new features without fixing decade long issues is not only haphazard but moronical. All that tells me is that they're comfortable with the status-quo and will only add engine parity and optimization when enough people complain and or it becomes financially beneficial to do so.   

 

Spoiler

I will ask Luke to come here to beat a dead horse. There is so many obvious faults and things to disagree on. But it is also a maximum amount of times the many issues got to be mentioned. 

 

How long until that dead horse actually renders a result? Perhaps, maybe, another ten years?

 

Spoiler

....One have just to accept it for what it is 

 

Ugh, sounds like an IGN or the myriad of other lackadaisical paid-for apology letters around the industry. You wouldn't post a positive review of a mediocre game from the likes of Ubisoft, EA, or Activision with regards to awful optimization, system use or anything else, so why does ED get a pass? They get said pass because they're the only game (Modern Combat FS) in town. ED has no incentive to fix anything because no-one can challenge them, period.  

 

On 9/2/2019 at 1:28 PM, Art-J said:

On the contrary. With its current, very rough implementation, the effect throws me around severely every few seconds during dogfight, when following ever-looping AI warbirds in high-G turns. That's why I turned it off until they tweak it more (not to mention negative performance impact) 😄. I guess jet-head guys will have to take it into account when doing aerial refueling as well. All and all, every FM fidelity related update is welcomed, though I also wouldn't mind other aspects of the sim being updated as well.

 

Yeah, that's you placing yourself into a jetwash situation. Combat pilots specifically avoid those encounters when approaching a formation, APD'd, taking off, ect. My point stands.

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