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Sokol1

Ravcore Javelin (Gladiator OEM) review

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By Slaw (Slaw Pedals) - important, with screwdriver - posted in IL2 forum.ru. Tinyurl link for Google Translator:

 

post-12288-0-96336300-1475147389.jpg

http://tinyurl.com/ja78se5

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/4898-ravcore-javelin-gaming-joystick/

 

Need loguin on forum (same password from here).

 

Notice the gift, a useful accessory. ;)

 

In this picture, the hole - in middle - for insert a bolt (screw) for lock the Twist rudder if desired (available too for Gladiator - don't use long bolt or will "screw" some wires).

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_09_2016/post-12288-0-54307300-1475148966.jpg

Edited by Sokol1
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He didnt tell much appart the fact that its better stick than X52 which wasnt surpirse for me. Google translator is probably a bit confusing so it seams he is mentioning fake on one place but probably transaltor didnt do job well.

In any case its nice to see we can lock twist function. But I dont know what bolt means  :biggrin:

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In any case its nice to see we can lock twist function. But I dont know what bolt means  :biggrin:

 

This: http://www.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/ekmps/shops/wilmslow/images/self-tapping-screws-socket-hex-head-304-p.jpg   :)

 

I don't understand the reviewer complains about Gladiator "vanila" mechanics looks like Cobra M5.   :huh:

VKB say in their Q&A that used this mechanics, just improved with damper:

 

Question: What kind of loading mechanism (gimbal) is inside the Gladiator joystick?

 
Answer: VKB was one of the main developers of Defender Cobra M5 joystick which was sold in Eastern European markets such as Russia. Westerners are not very familiar with it as it was never sold there officially. This stick was in production and operation for 5 years and we studied the strengths and weaknesses of its design. We made a number of improvements to the design of the loading mechanism (gimbal) found in the Cobra M5 and incorporated them into the Gladiator.

 

Perhaps is the case that these OEM versions ("fake"/"clone") don't come with grease/dampened gimbal  - but their "screwdriver review" don't investigate this... crucial detail.

 

Looks more like these reviews posted on Amazon, in what the guy buy a X-55... dreaming with a Warthog and then go complain that "X-55 is not a Warthog".

Is not, is their own fault think that can buy a "Warthog" for 200$.

 

Opera resume: If one want a "Gunfighter" don't buy a Gladiator... OEM. ;)

Edited by Sokol1

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is it a licensed gladiator or just a bad copy ? cant find a price or a possibility to order besides polskie language ? and heared about its not coming with the gimbal mechanics which is the only reason why i would buy it

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is it a licensed gladiator or just a bad copy ? cant find a price or a possibility to order besides polskie language ? and heared about its not coming with the gimbal mechanics which is the only reason why i would buy it

As I understood, clone comes with the same gimbal mechanism, same MARS sensors, same plastics...the difference is that there is a cheap potentiometer in the TWIST (and less programmable buttons) but that shouldnt bother you since you are using pedals, right?  :biggrin:

Edited by blackram

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is it a licensed gladiator or just a bad copy ? cant find a price or a possibility to order besides polskie language ? and heared about its not coming with the gimbal mechanics which is the only reason why i would buy it

 

Is licensed OEM versions, with "save" on Twist Rudder, made in same Asia Games factory that make Gladiator, but:

Gladiator is produced under VKB QC supervision.

OEM is under the "famous" Chinese QC supervision.  :biggrin:

 

I don't understand well Slaw last post about "Cobra M5 mechanics" - if he meam that  OEM's don't use Gladiator greased dampened gimbal, but Cobra M5 spring only gimbal ("clunck")?  :huh:

 

At least for now in electronics is used same of VKB Gladiator, minus the potentiometer in Twist Rudder, what allow save a dollar or less in manufacture costs...

Will be not surprise if in future they change for Cobra M5 controller - obsolete, but more cheap to make. OEM is just to make "easy money".

 

About gimbals

 

 

* "Pincer" gimbal - CH, Cobra M5 - has flaws - "clunck" and heavy in corners.

 

* "Piston" gimbals - Saitek's, Warthog has flaws - is even worse than "pincer" - more force for leave center position, mix in X, Y forces.

 

* "Satelite Ring" gimbal - Suncom, Thrustmaster T16000M - slight better than "piston", less mix in X, Y forces, but limit sensor use, require a "3D sensor (T.1600M).

 

* CAM gimbal improve over previous, but they flaw is cost, that still far away from mass market products.

 

The only gimbal not used by joystick industry, is "X" springs gimbal - used in Cougar Mods an HiRev Sim (now Bugeye) gimbal for military simulations:

 

Gimbal_X.jpg

 

I suspect this spring arrange don't provide a good "mechanical center position".

 

I don't find a good feedback about this system - the problem is Cougar owners opinion are "biased," people tends justify for themselves their "expensive toys" purchase, so they always say "wonderful" - like they say about Warthog gimbal on release, and now complain on forums. smile.gif

 

I remember from (Rip) Shukhoi forum "hay days" that all possible gimbal systems where discussed and the only solution pointed is ... CAM.

 

Edited by Sokol1
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The game, find 10 differences in mechanics.

Javelin

post-12288-0-54083000-1475259785.jpg

 

Gladiator VKB

post-12288-0-06765500-1475259817_thumb.jpg

 

Cobra V5

post-12288-0-70359000-1475259841_thumb.jpg

 

But if you listen to the manufacturers, the difference is big.

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 "Gladiator greased dampened gimbal" - that you mean saying this?

This:

 

Damper.jpggif hosting

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2282

 

The grooves in Gladiator gimbal pivot has grease for damper - Cobra M5 gimbal don't have this.

 

My question is if OEM (Javelin) has grease - so he don't "jump" back to center like Cobra M5:

 

 

This damper is what make (VKB) Gladiator "pincer" gimbal different from early Thrustmaster/CH/Cobra M5/RC transmitter... "pincer" gimbals.

 

By "pincer" gimbal I mean a center system based on this spring mechanism (see in Baur "tick" gimbal drawing, or in early Slaw pedals ;)  )

 

https://forum.warthunder.ru/uploads/monthly_03_2013/post-10412-0-59952600-1364410601.jpg

Edited by Sokol1
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The game, find 10 differences in mechanics.

 

If are, is very subjective...  :huh:

 

Even the PCB code is the same and don't looks that OEM PCB's have reduced/omissions in components (common practice in low cost PC motherboards revisions). 

 

 

Movements are exactly the same.

 

The same of Gladiator or the same of Cobra M5?

 

For the VirPilov what matter is the "feel", Javelin gimbal is "clunck" or not?   :biggrin:

Edited by Sokol1

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Movement is the same in relation to the gladiator. Mechanically it's twins - children of one mother.

But I would not like to stand on a side of someone. This is just my opinion.

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OK. Thank you. Is clear that other than potentiometer (resistor) in twist rudder, locked firmware options and the famous Chinese QC they are the same. :)

 

European customers that don't want buy from Amazon.com have their option. ;)

Edited by Sokol1

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On Ravcore's website there is a button on the homepage to change the language to English

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Why MODE and Shift button don't acct over base buttons - in VKB Gladiator and OEM's?

 

Due Windows 32 buttons limitation for the games that use old Dinput DLL, or most of then - exceptions: BoS/Rof=64,  DCSW=128.

 

If default buttons profile include Shift and MODE 2 for base buttons, the joystick will present more that 32 buttons for Windows, and uninformed gamers will complain that "base buttons are DOA in MODE 2". :)

 

Of course, using keymapper (SVMapper, Xpadder, Joy2Key...) this buttons above 32 can be used in games, but this is "complicated" for entry-level market.

 

VKB Gladiator users can change this drawback loading new buttons profile, OEM versions not.

 

If OEM versions came with MODE 2 for base button instead POV HAT will  stay in 32 buttons limit, and will be present more functionality/versatility

But for the factory this is not important, so they use VKB default profile and locked the firmware.

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On Ravcore's website there is a button on the homepage to change the language to English

Yes but once you switch to EN joystick cannot be found on site. Also I would like to find out, do they ship outside Poland...

 

EDIT: Ive sent them an email so we will see....

 

 

Hi. This is my review of this joystick:

Thank you Washi! Is there a large deadzone on the centre? Also you are comparing it with T16000M which had very stiff spring on the stick. How is Javelin in that matter? You mentioned it uses less force but Im not sure I got it right. That you meant for the spring stiffness.

Edited by blackram

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Another look at Javelin. Would be cool if some of our polish comrades translate this for us. As croatian I could understand half of what was said but I would like a proper translation, ofcourse.

In the box there is a little surprise which you get along with the stick. I like it hehe

 

Edited by blackram

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I received mail from Ravcore. They are not selling it directly outside Poland. Only for (future) distributor. If there will be. So the only option is if amazon.de has any and that is for hefty 90 Euros.....plus shipping....

 

what a ********

 

How come there are no EU distributors for Gladiator or Ravcore Javelin...not a single one...like nobody cares

Edited by blackram

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So the only option is if amazon.de has any and that is for hefty 90 Euros.....plus shipping....

 

 

To buy OEM's for this price, is more interesting get Gladiator from Amazon.com, even paying more on shipping.

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To buy OEM's for this price, is more interesting get Gladiator from Amazon.com, even paying more on shipping.

True. However I heard that Ravcore Javelin could be bought from Czech webstores so I asked them. It is listed in a few czech webstores. I got a response from one. Apparently the stick isnt in the stock of Czech stores yet but they are considering shipping in other EU countries. 

Edited by blackram

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I'm from Poland and can assist you with purchase (resend to you).

Mate I somehow missed your offer. Nevertheless I ordered one from Czech and it will cost me almost the same amount with taxes and shipping charges. Thank you very much for you kind offer. This community rocks.

I will put my impressions once the stick arrives. I have a great experience with flying gear and I hope I will help some of you in your decisions.

Edited by blackram

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I will put my impressions once the stick arrives. I have a great experience with flying gear and I hope I will help some of you in your decisions.

Will be interestign to hear about it. Just reccieved my Speedlink Airrow and there are some things I'm not very happy about especially considering the price. But I'll go into the details later when I have gathered more flight expirience with it.

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At least two users has issues with OME versions of Gladiator so I cancelled my order for Javelin and I will wait for Gladiator to be (if!) available on amazon.de. Its kinda frustrating for EU customers since majority of ppl cant afford Glad Pro and the regular would be bestseller in EU.

Bah!

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Yes same fake Glad which also have problems.

I refuse to buy (spec for this price) the fake.

If I wouldnt be able to get Glad I wont buy it. Thats it. Maybe and maybe I will ask one community member from US to buy it and resend. He would be able to test it ofcourse for the sake of the favor.

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Hi guys, i'm thinking about buying ravcore javelin - what kind of problems are You talking about?

Thrustmaster t.16000m have simillary price (at least here in Poland) - do You think that oem gladiator is better or worse?

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Hi guys, i'm thinking about buying ravcore javelin - what kind of problems are You talking about?

Thrustmaster t.16000m have simillary price (at least here in Poland) - do You think that oem gladiator is better or worse?

2 out of 3 ppl with whom I spoke had some issues regarding "worning out" of plastics in the centre so teh stick has some "play" around the deadzone. One OEM stick came poorly assembled, also. One guy from Poland doesnt have any probs so far.

I think the biggest isseu is the lack of proper quality control in OEM versions.

I think that 20 bucks difference is not significant so th better option would be VKB Gladiator. The problem is that EU customer cant buy it anywhere now.

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I think that 20 bucks difference is not significant so th better option would be VKB Gladiator. The problem is that EU customer cant buy it anywhere now.

 

Ask the seller in China about shipping cost for your address, it might be worth. sales@vkb-sim.pro

Edited by Sokol1

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Ask the seller in China about shipping cost for your address, it might be worth. sales@vkb-sim.pro

tnx Sokol Ill try that

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tnx Sokol Ill try that

And please let us know something how much it is fir the rest of EU customers who want to import one too.

 

:salute:

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My fears materialized. The Glad is 80 bucks and shipping to EU is 50 USD. Total of 130 USD.  :sorry:

 

I will wait for Amazon.de and see....Amazon.com doesnt ship to EU.

Edited by blackram

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That's bad :( I think i will try ravcore. When living in Poland there is one year door to door warranty, so in case of having faulty one it should be easy to replace. Finger crossed ;)

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