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La5 vs Lagg vs Yak

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Not suggesting compressed, glued wood is the same as 'stacked'. It's not of course and at no stage have I suggested otherwise. But if you're suggesting that through the act of compression, laminated wood takes on the characteristics of a super hero, I'd like to see the 'evidence'.

.

I get where you're coming from.

This is not my area of expertise, but I do know that angle can be the difference between almost no effect and penetration - especially with a laminated material.

 

Aluminum gives up the ghost rather easily.

Edited by Gambit21
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What I can say from my perspective as an old advance gunner (25mm-125mm) is that AP will do more damage in hitting metal (worst aluminium) then wood... even at this time the speed of the bullet was too slow for making thermo-fusion (dunno the word exact in english). In hitting the structure the AP will bring a lot of debris ( small part) in a very high temperature. The debris from wood (around)will be mostly non-effective...but debris of aluminium very hot will do.

 

And during the first part of WW2 because of the powder and the sabot was not there until 43-44. The best weapon should be inside of 20-30mm depend of the cartridge.

The HE should (in my poiny of view ) do more damage then now but even now it's very hard to calculate damage and everything from HE for a lot of reasons so I can imagine the nightmare for the dev.

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Was it only one factory that made IL-2's which had metal wings? I would think that the rest with wooden/mixed construction wings and fuselage would not have got the reputation for being reasonably tough to bring down, if the large wooden areas were particularly fragile compared to aluminium/alloy. A vast amount of IL-2's were shot down but there is lots of anecdotal evidence of techniques from both German and Finnish pilots which were not "shoot at the big wooden parts"

 

Just a thought

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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The best part about flying 109s is that you can always blame yourself for your opponent successes ; ) 

 

Over the years I've found that holds true for all aircraft 99% of the time.

Even if the reason is that you should have ran home instead of engaged in that circumstance - it generally comes back to your own error at some juncture.

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Thank you for being more explicit and less cryptic than me; just wanted to highlight some of the hypocrisy going on here. In my *opinion*, it is easier to make mistakes, and therefore by definition easier to catch others making mistakes. I try to push the limits of what my plane can do outside of the way it was intended to fly. Sometimes I see VVS aircraft do things that "amaze" me, but I will never say I was shot down because of "x". I am notorious for complaining, but I never rationalize my failures that way. Who cares though

What is the point of this gobbledygook here bud?

 

The only hypocrisy here is your posturing about red planes without ever bloody well having flown them on the server. If you are notorious for complaining- then don't, for your own sake as well as ours who have to read that constant codswallop in chat. You're complaining because you're trying to rationalize.

 

It's cognitive dissonance you're suffering from here champ.

Edited by boaty_McBoatface

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To use wood for planes, it's traditional, it's old school, it's solid and it's fun to fly the planes. The only disadvantage is the weight and a colony of termites.................. :biggrin:

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LaGG 3, or as the Soviet pilots called it, the "varnished guaranteed coffin"

 

Fun to fly for us, not so much for them I suspect!

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Our LaGG-3 series 29 is still a nice bit better than the 1941 one which really got that reputation. You can sort of simulate it by limiting the engine to 89% throttle (960 mmHg) and add 2 x 50Kg bombs (the bombs + pylons add a total of 120 Kg which is more or less the weight difference between the variants). I know it's not really the same but with what we have in the sim is the best we can get for now.

With those settings I get around 460 km/h top speed at the deck and 10 m/s climbrate... close to the spec sheet in that website about La/LaGG variants... and yeah it's bad. It gives me the impression some of the real pilots had back then... that I would prefer to fly a late I-16 in comparison... the speed gain is marginal and the cost in agility, climbrate and visibility isn't worth it. And that without the production problems... which could make the planes even slower than that.

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Nope, Nope Nope, Nopenopenopenopenopenope.

 

The early LaGG-3s were really rather good. 500 on the Deck and almost 580 at 5k. It was heavy, but the Firepower was amazing. 

 

The Problematic Generations were those produced when Production was moved around, inexperienced Workers came as replacement etc, and inbetween the Factories there were massive differences in Quality. Siberia simply didn't have the right cllmate to produce Wood Laminates. 

 

The biggest Problems weren't in the Performance though, but in the Quality of the Airframe. They simply weren't built very well, which lead to rotting parts, yellowing canopies etc. 

The Engines also didn't Function very well in the Winter. And the Fuselage and Wing Panels weren't fitted well at all. 

Add to that rather heavy Controls at Speed and you have yourself a Reputation. 

 

However, they got their Act together for the late Series LaGG-3 which were really good again. 

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Nope, Nope Nope, Nopenopenopenopenopenope.

 

The early LaGG-3s were really rather good. 500 on the Deck and almost 580 at 5k. It was heavy, but the Firepower was amazing. 

 

The Problematic Generations were those produced when Production was moved around, inexperienced Workers came as replacement etc, and inbetween the Factories there were massive differences in Quality. Siberia simply didn't have the right cllmate to produce Wood Laminates. 

 

The biggest Problems weren't in the Performance though, but in the Quality of the Airframe. They simply weren't built very well, which lead to rotting parts, yellowing canopies etc. 

The Engines also didn't Function very well in the Winter. And the Fuselage and Wing Panels weren't fitted well at all. 

Add to that rather heavy Controls at Speed and you have yourself a Reputation. 

 

However, they got their Act together for the late Series LaGG-3 which were really good again. 

 

Well with the "early 1941" I mean those that got problems in their construction, which were most of those after the first produced.

 

The speeds you mention are listed for the series 1 to 3 in that website, from then on up to the series 28 it says ~475 at the deck and ~550 at 4.8k. Then we have the PF engine series 29 which regained the sea level speed of 507 kmh at the deck and 566 km/h top speed (alt not clarified), those listed speeds for the 29 are similar to the ones in game (505 at the deck and 573 at 4k) , same for the La-5 without boost, I guess it can be trusted.

 

Then in Black Cross Red Star it's mentioned that although the early LaGG was supposed to have around 560 km/h top speed, some production variants couldn't manage to go past 505 km/h, I guess this is at 5k so at the deck it would be much lower.

 

So in the end we have a systematic performance decrease (like going from 500 to 470 at the deck for the later 1941 series) but then we have the ones that were worse (from the already decreased 560 km/h at altitude, to ~500 km/h)

Edited by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

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Aw man, guess you're right. Nothing more I can say here 

 

I used to be bad on that chat with complaining too man. So much better off without looking and joining in that bollocks. 

 

Press the H key.

 

Regards

Edited by boaty_McBoatface

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Aw would you look at that, he feels bad now. Trying to teach me a lesson for a post I made months ago 

 

 

The post was only a couple days ago.

 

You need help buddy. There were a few of us there for you in chat willing to show some empathy and understanding when you went complete and utter doolally- even so far as defending you. Anyone could see you were having a full-on mental breakdown, and you know well yourself it wasn't the only instance.

 

The biggest barrier to yourself is accepting and admitting you need help. All the best- I really hope you can get on top of these demons.

 

Nobody wants to see that in chat again.

 

Regards 

Edited by boaty_McBoatface

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The post was only a couple days ago.

 

You need help buddy. There were a few of us there for you in chat willing to show some empathy and understanding when you went complete and utter doolally- even so far as defending you. Anyone could see you were having a full-on mental breakdown, and you know well yourself it wasn't the only instance.

 

The biggest barrier to yourself is accepting and admitting you need help. All the best- I really hope you can get on top of these demons.

 

Regards 

 

 

Yeah.  Didn't really want to be part of the subject drift here, or call out any particular individuals online behavior, but yeah that guy really needs to dial it back.

 

 

Just keep the hud/chat off, use compass in cockpit. Spares you of a lot of diddle-e-doo !

 

I like to see the chat window.  It tells me who I shot down, who shoots me down, people calling out contacts, saying where they are going, etc.  Nobody should have to turn that off completely just because there is a raving lunatic in there making some commentary or complaint every 10 seconds.  We need to have a button next to the ban button that allows us to ignore indvidual chatterboxes and weirdos.

Edited by Iceworm
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