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MaxM

Is there modding support?

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Hi,

I'm looking to buy this game but wondering if there's modding ability beyond the usual skinning for singleplayer? e.g. can I fine tune FMs / loadouts of my planes?

Or is it all "locked" to keep up MP?

Edited by MaxM

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e.g. can I fine tune FMs / loadouts of my planes?

 

No

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It is locked up as you say in the OP, i assume it is  indeed to mainatian a "homogenous" product, specially for multiplayer.

 

however, i would encourage you to buy the game, its incredibly fun on its current state and exciting times are ahead!

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There are some minor modable things which are not officially being supported but in general mods are not possible right now.

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We don't currently have official support for a Mods On mode. That may change in the future, but not sure yet.

 

Jason

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We don't currently have official support for a Mods On mode. That may change in the future, but not sure yet.

 

Jason

Sweet baby Jesus a glimmer of hope!

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Hi,

I'm looking to buy this game but wondering if there's modding ability beyond the usual skinning for singleplayer? e.g. can I fine tune FMs / loadouts of my planes?

Or is it all "locked" to keep up MP?

Even if IL2 allowed a Mods On mode like Rise of Flight, the FM are off limits for modding. Indeed they should be since allowing that degree of alteration would basically destroy the game online. Also modding like that would mean hacking the game code.

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As usual in this regard you are wrong sharpe.

Or rather as some would say, you're not even wrong.

Il2 online gaming flourished for many, many years due to modders and mod teams like team diadalos.

Not only does it keep the product in a continuous state of evolution rather than stagnation, it keeps the product relevant, keeps copies selling, and swells the player base with enticing new aircraft and maps that might be cost prohibitive for the developer to produce.

It is without doubt a win win. Developers win because people buy the base game to support the new mods, players (offline) win because there is a constant stream of new content, and onliners win because their ranks are entirely dependent on off liners venturing into online play.

Every other successful flight sim is modded to the hilt-il2 '46, DCS to an astonishing degree, and RoF less so. Furthermore sims like Il2 Cliffs of Dover have been nearly entirely rebuilt by modders, fixing their numerous problems and turning them into competitive sims. CoD went from DoA to now where groups like the ACG, with over a hundred active pilots play it exclusively, all because of modders.

Everyone wins, no one looses, no brainer.

Edited by 5./JG26_Dots
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Sharpe isn't wrong.

 

We can never allow mods to FMs because our mods are not .ini files or in any other easily editable format. You would need access to our source code and that's not happening. Sorry but this is one area we cannot allow modding.

 

If we allow modding it will be for other parts of the sim as with ROF, but maybe a bit further if possible.

 

Mods in a general sense can be a good thing, hence my plan to bring back a Mods On mode. But all out modding and access to all files can be self defeating in the long run.

 

Jason

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Sharpe isn't wrong.

 

We can never allow mods to FMs because our mods are not .ini files or in any other easily editable format. You would need access to our source code and that's not happening. Sorry but this is one area we cannot allow modding.

 

If we allow modding it will be for other parts of the sim as with ROF, but maybe a bit further if possible.

 

Mods in a general sense can be a good thing, hence my plan to bring back a Mods On mode. But all out modding and access to all files can be self defeating in the long run.

 

Jason

 

So the only reason i have not yet deleted this game is gone.

 

Well, at least now it's clear, thanks.

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So the only reason i have not yet deleted this game is gone.

 

Well, at least now it's clear, thanks.

 

Gosh.  What will you after that then?

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So the only reason i have not yet deleted this game is gone.

 

Well, at least now it's clear, thanks.

I'm not sure what is wrong with that policy. And even forgetting about source code, Flight Models are extremely hard to make and few have set of skills and knowledge to actually work on them. I can totally see random people thinking they know the better and messing with this, I saw enough of random people flight models in 1946 which had major flaws. Or recent "developments" in War Thunder where some folks play with .blk files and think they can improve flight models only to get things worse. 

 

Modes On is good idea to allow community to expand the content, but some things should be left internal only. 

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Modes On is good idea to allow community to expand the content, but some things should be left internal only.
  Couldn't agree more.

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As usual in this regard you are wrong sharpe.

Or rather as some would say, you're not even wrong.

Il2 online gaming flourished for many, many years due to modders and mod teams like team diadalos.

Not only does it keep the product in a continuous state of evolution rather than stagnation, it keeps the product relevant, keeps copies selling, and swells the player base with enticing new aircraft and maps that might be cost prohibitive for the developer to produce.

It is without doubt a win win. Developers win because people buy the base game to support the new mods, players (offline) win because there is a constant stream of new content, and onliners win because their ranks are entirely dependent on off liners venturing into online play.

Every other successful flight sim is modded to the hilt-il2 '46, DCS to an astonishing degree, and RoF less so. Furthermore sims like Il2 Cliffs of Dover have been nearly entirely rebuilt by modders, fixing their numerous problems and turning them into competitive sims. CoD went from DoA to now where groups like the ACG, with over a hundred active pilots play it exclusively, all because of modders.

Everyone wins, no one looses, no brainer.

You're getting the history and reasons for modding in these past games all misunderstood.

IL-2 1946 never officially supported modding when it had developer support. It was eventually hacked, not modded. Then development ceased and Team D took over. The uncontrolled modding splintered up the game though.

Cliffs of Dover went belly up and official support was discontinued. Then TF stepped in as modders. But that's because the developer had abandoned it.

These games didn't use modding to survive, they turned to it as a last resort or were hacked.

Those situations above don't apply to the new IL-2 series since it has active developer support. There may be interesting embellishments provided by modders if that mode becomes available but it's not crucial for the game to survive.

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Gosh.  What will you after that then?

 

Something operatic I would imagine.

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Seems like a sensible way to bring modifications to the game without splintering the multiplayer.

 

Jason, I wonder if you guys have considered implementing a revenue sharing option for high quality use generated content? Content that could be added to the official stream of the game. I know its early in the process but it appears (from the outside at least) that this was a success for War Thunder as a recent He219 addition was created by third party and then sold as a Premium item in their game store.

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Jason, I wonder if you guys have considered implementing a revenue sharing option for high quality use generated content? Content that could be added to the official stream of the game.

Well to some sort this already happened with the Ilya Morumets in RoF or the recently implemented Ai units here in BoS. The creator of the Morumets definetly was paid for the model before it was being worked on by 777 to make it game compatible.


I'm glad mod support will be considered for future developments of BoS. My personal wish for it is to become more open than it is in RoF which is limited by FMod and protected texture files.

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Seems like a sensible way to bring modifications to the game without splintering the multiplayer.

There is. It's the "Mods Off" mode. Combat flight sims like this one are too poorly attended in multiplayer to support multiple versions of the game created by modding. Just look at RoF, enable Mods On and then look for servers. There won't be any. There just aren't enough players and people just want to get online and join a game without dealing with the trouble of mods.

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In IL-2 1946 the vast majority of mods were made for offline players.

 

Most of the mods did not even run online.HSFX and the UP 3 REDUX

for online play.(I like the word redux in the new UP 3 version they are

redoing it for online play)

 

I think if mods do come to this game it will be becuase of an

overwhelming majority of offline players like in 1946.

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In IL-2 1946 the vast majority of mods were made for offline players.

 

Most of the mods did not even run online.HSFX and the UP 3 REDUX

for online play.(I like the word redux in the new UP 3 version they are

redoing it for online play)

 

I think if mods do come to this game it will be becuase of an

overwhelming majority of offline players like in 1946.

 

and thus we arrive at the pivotal point of mods in a sim like this:

 

-- offline mods, the more the merrier, go nuts why not? the only "safety first" consideration would be to make absolutely sure these mod openings are not exploitable in ways that'd affect the multiplayer experience of others (i.e. client side stuff only)

 

 

-- online mods, well - here be dragons - even if it is possible to arrive at a technical solution for securing those, the userbase split factor would almost certainly leave any who attempts staring at a bunch of empty servers... our MP crowd is small enough that it even has a "dead hour" at certain hours across more/less populated timezones -- as soon as there's but a single factor separating those who can join up in a given mod server and those who gotta go and setup a bunch of stuff before they can - such mod server will surely be empty or inhabited by a sole lonely optimist about 99.9% of the time... 

 

 

but another fact is -- some modding support in a game like this is almost non-optional in a sense, hear me out (this has happened before to a game which I am closely connected with the developers*

 

 * that game would be KSP, and the (now former) lead dev happens to be my twin brother, so there I said it...

 

in that particular case,  it once happened that a very curious player once figured out a way he could "hack" the game and insert whatever code he wanted into it - which being C#, it's mostly safe in a general sense, but still this would result in some potentially game breaking approaches by more aggressive modders, leading to all sorts of issues

 

fortunately, this modder was a nice person, and privately contacted the devs (my brother) and pointed out this possibility he had uncovered, and also shared with them how he did it

 

so they hired him

 

 

the premise for that is that,  by proving the modding community with the tools needed for modding, they also provided the whole community with an "official way of making mods" - which evolved into a pretty comprehensive SDK as the early access game built on

 

this made for a thriving modding community that has been actively "bred" to incorporate a lot of constructive common concepts, such as their rule of "all plugins must have their source code published", which hugely bolsters the learning of new modders as well as prevents anyone trying to make a mod that does "a little more than advertised"

 

it also ensures a level of standardization that above all else, promotes a very high degree of mod-to-mod compatibility, so one can very easily pile on a huge mass of user made stuff without having the game simply crash right up front 

 

 

and the moral there was:  by supporting players with such an SDK, they had also won the implicit cooperation of all modders to stick to an official set of standard practices - as the need for hack-modding is eliminated, so is the risk of game-breakers, cheats, exploits and whatnot arising from those mods

 

 

it's a win-win and then win some more on top solution

 

 

so, that's just a thought I'd like to share with you guys, this is also my professional opinion on this issue, as I am a game programmer too... 

 

 

cheers

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and thus we arrive at the pivotal point of mods in a sim like this:

 

-- offline mods, the more the merrier, go nuts why not? the only "safety first" consideration would be to make absolutely sure these mod openings are not exploitable in ways that'd affect the multiplayer experience of others (i.e. client side stuff only)

 

 

-- online mods, well - here be dragons - even if it is possible to arrive at a technical solution for securing those, the userbase split factor would almost certainly leave any who attempts staring at a bunch of empty servers... our MP crowd is small enough that it even has a "dead hour" at certain hours across more/less populated timezones -- as soon as there's but a single factor separating those who can join up in a given mod server and those who gotta go and setup a bunch of stuff before they can - such mod server will surely be empty or inhabited by a sole lonely optimist about 99.9% of the time... 

 

 

but another fact is -- some modding support in a game like this is almost non-optional in a sense, hear me out (this has happened before to a game which I am closely connected with the developers*) 

 

 * that game would be KSP, and the (now former) lead dev happens to be my twin brother, so there I said it...

 

in that particular case,  it once happened that a very curious player once figured out a way he could "hack" the game and insert whatever code he wanted into it - which being C#, it's mostly safe in a general sense, but still this would result in some potentially game breaking approaches by more aggressive modders, leading to all sorts of issues

 

fortunately, this modder was a nice person, and privately contacted the devs (my brother) and pointed out this possibility he had uncovered, and also shared with them how he did it

 

so they hired him

 

 

the premise for that is that,  by proving the modding community with the tools needed for modding, they also provided the whole community with an "official way of making mods" - which evolved into a pretty comprehensive SDK as the early access game built on

 

this made for a thriving modding community that has been actively "bred" to incorporate a lot of constructive common concepts, such as their rule of "all plugins must have their source code published", which hugely bolsters the learning of new modders as well as prevents anyone trying to make a mod that does "a little more than advertised"

 

it also ensures a level of standardization that above all else, promotes a very high degree of mod-to-mod compatibility, so one can very easily pile on a huge mass of user made stuff without having the game simply crash right up front 

 

 

and the moral there was:  by supporting players with such an SDK, they had also won the implicit cooperation of all modders to stick to an official set of standard practices - as the need for hack-modding is eliminated, so is the risk of game-breakers, cheats, exploits and whatnot arising from those mods

 

 

it's a win-win and then win some more on top solution

 

 

so, that's just a thought I'd like to share with you guys, this is also my professional opinion on this issue, as I am a game programmer too... 

 

 

cheers

 

Thanks for sharing that!

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There is. It's the "Mods Off" mode. Combat flight sims like this one are too poorly attended in multiplayer to support multiple versions of the game created by modding. Just look at RoF, enable Mods On and then look for servers. There won't be any. There just aren't enough players and people just want to get online and join a game without dealing with the trouble of mods.

I agree. This is also an obstacle for new players who want to try MP. The less installing and hassle you need to play online, the better.

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Mods in general cause splintering in MP player base and mod management is a huge work hour hog in mod-heavy games (e.g. ARMA series). Creating SDKs and solid online modding mechanics require manpower, and the limitations in availability of funding limit the available manpower. How many developers and coders are attached to the game? How does the project management prioritize the planned content? Do they focus on unitary out-of-the-box experience and multiplayer or flexible and often unstable single player content?

 

That, and mods can be a curse too. Take a look at Il-2 1946. SP mods are certainly what keep this game still relevant but in multi the mods cause constant issues. Personally the wild mod west is a big downer in 1946 since it makes playing multi so damn difficult. I have something like 6 parallel installations of Il-2 1946 - from CUP to SAS to non-UP3 to HSFX to whatever. Depending on which server I'd like to fly, the allowed modset requires choosing a correct installation path with a specific setting. This also requires manual control transfer, Hyperlobby switcharoo and in general makes participating in games a hassle. Not to mention the time-consuming act of installing mods in proper order into separate folders with competing activation programs. Despite this you can run into unforeseen issues if some of your packs is not up to date, which you will notice in situ. 

Edited by ElPerk

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