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22 июня, День скорби.

Приветствуем наших русских товарищей.

Надеемся на то, что связь наших народов станет еще крепче.

 

*Salute*

 

 

22.Juni, ein Jahrestag der Schande. Ein Gruss an unsere russischen Kammeraden. Auf dass sich unsere Völker noch viel mehr annähern mögen.

Salute

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It's strange this date appears/is discussed in newspapers and iNET communities less and less....

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22 июня, День скорби.

Приветствуем наших русских товарищей.

Надеемся на то, что связь наших народов станет еще крепче.

 

*Salute*

 

 

22.Juni, ein Jahrestag der Schande. Ein Gruss an unsere russischen Kammeraden. Auf dass sich unsere Völker noch viel mehr annähern mögen.

Salute

 

I don`t understand the language, but I guess this about the German attack on Russia in 1941?

 

Oh wait that`s TODAY!

Edited by seafireliv

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I don`t understand the language, but I guess this about the German attack on Russia in 1941?

 

Oh wait that`s TODAY!

Probably.

 

But it is in wrong place, history thread would be more appropriate. 

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I don`t understand the language, but I guess this about the German attack on Russia in 1941?

 

Oh wait that`s TODAY!

 

Indeed. Today is the 75th anniversary.

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22.Juni, ein Jahrestag der Schande. Ein Gruss an unsere russischen Kammeraden. Auf dass sich unsere Völker noch viel mehr annähern mögen.

Salute

 

0_71d92_baa9e466_XL.jpg

 

Text, scrached on Brest Fortress wall: "I am dying, but not give up. Good bie, Motherland. 20/VII-41".

 

Thanks for this words, friend. There is not even one family here, in ex-USSR coutries, that didnt lost an ancector in that World Tragedy. My family lost 8 men (of 9 - last was heavy wounded and retired in febr.1943). And same situation in Germany - that tragedy took a heavy tool among Your people.

 

Generation of our grandfathers did all the best to finish that war.

 

Our generation's task - to not let it repeat. We have many differences, but we must be friendly, and never took arms again.

 

John 13 : 34 - “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."

 

P.S. Lucas, could You please translate this:

74 года назад началась Великая Отечественная Война.

Несмотря на то, что к ней готовились с начала 30-х годов, началась она для нас крайне неудачно и цена заплаченная за Победу была немаленькой.

И поэтому для нашего народа 22 июня стало самый черным днем календаря, точно так же как 9 мая стало самым светлым праздником.

О причинах поражений и их последствиях я уже писал довольно подробно 4 года назад http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/409268.html и не вижу смысла сейчас пережевывать все это по второму разу.

 

Ничто сейчас так не объединяет самых разных людей, как память о той войне, живых свидетелей которой осталось так мало. Ни куцая государственная идеология, ни религия, ни современная масс.культура не могут предложит чего-то подобного. Последний "Бессмертный полк" хорошо показал, что именно память о войне остается пожалуй центральным элементом общественного сознания, причем сознания настоящего, подлинного, где Великая Отечественная Война остается краеугольным камнем национальной памяти. Сколько было попыток облить акцию грязью, что мол это все по заказу чиновников или по умыслу либералов, но реальность оказалось несколько иной.

 

Споры на тему кто виноват, периодически продолжаются и сегодня, что говорит о болезненности темы и о тех ранах, которые нанесла война нашему народу. Это по сути обратная сторона медали - победа в Великой Отечественной Войне оставила после себя такие невидимые скрепы, которые пережили даже уничтожение Советского Союза. А тяжелое начало войны, оставило память о страшных поражениях, которые перенесло наше государство и наша армия, прежде чем враг был остановлен и разгромлен.

 

Для тех, кто близко не изучает предвоенный период и начало войны, главными вопросами по прежнему остаются - как все это допустили и как после всего произошедшего удалось победить. В 80-е, эти вопросы использовали для подрыва государства, наравне с другими проблемными темами отечественной истории. В 90-е - они были частью упоротого антисоветского дискурса, который генерировал невменяемые мифы один глупее другого. В "нулевые", наметился определенный прогресс, при всех проблемах отечественной исторической науки, она нашла с себе силы перевести дискуссию из пропагандистского в историческое русло. От криков - во всем виноват Сталин пришлось отказаться, начали копаться в архивах, систематизировать известные документы, очищать историю от советской апологетики и умолчания и антисоветской чернухи. В итоге, постепенно вырисовывалась более реалистичная картина начала войны, где вопросы-загадки начали получать необходимые ответы, где уже были видны как объективные причины поражений, так и субъективные ошибки Сталина, Генерального Штаба, Наркомата обороны, командований округов, вплоть до отдельных частей и подразделений, которые не выполнили приказ.

 

Вопрос о том, можно ли было начать войну по другому, остался уделом альтернативной истории. Мы никогда доподлинно не узнаем, можно ли было готовится по другому - этот вопрос всегда будет в сфере гаданий и предположений. Можно сколько угодно говорить, что подготовились недостаточно, а с другой стороны всегда есть вероятность, что если бы не эта подготовка, нас бы просто смели с исторической цены и такой страны как Россия больше бы не было на карте. Поэтому тут у нас всегда будет ситуация субъективной оценки.

Лично я считал и считаю, что подготовка к войне, при всех допущенных стратегических и управленческих ошибках, позволила СССР выстоять в 1941 году и победить в войне.Ошибки искупались в ходе войны кровью и потерянными территориями. Нам пришлось на ходу учиться у лучшей армии Европы и мы выучились, ибо только став лучшей армией Европы, можно было разбить немцев. Нами была заплачена самая большая цена из всех участников войны и о ней конечно нужно и должно помнить, только не в стиле заламывания рук и подлых вопросов, а не лучше ли было сдать Ленинград немцам или не лучше ли было вообще проиграть, чтобы ездить на хороших немецких машинах. 22 июня мы вспоминаем наши огромные жертвы как часть Великой Победы.

 

И именно в этот день о них стоит вспоминать в первую очередь, потому что именно с началом войны связан ее трагический характер. У нас некоторое время пытались превратить День Победы в скорбное действо, подменив праздник Победы скорбью по погибшим, лишь бы вычеркнуть из памяти нашего народа память о Победе и Красном Флаге над Берлином. Людей долго и упорно пытались оторвать от этой победы, потому что она мешала и мешает превращению народа в общественный субстрат иванов не помнящих родства. Известно чего хотели - что наш народ, это народ-исторический неудачник, который свернул со столбовой цивилизационной колеи, что наши правители кровавые гады и палачи, что победили мы только завалив противника трупами, а потом всех победителей засунули в лагеря. Вот та матрица, которую пытались установить, чтобы народ поверил, что его историческая судьба кончена, что его цивилизационная неудача окончательна и обжалованию не подлежит. Но не вышло, мы помним и будем помнить. Победы наших предков, служат нам напоминаем о том, что если правильно ставить цели и совокупными усилиями их реализовывать, наш народ способен на великие свершения меняющие мир.

 

Вспоминая нашу Великую Победу, надо обязательно помнить и 22 июня 1941, которое напоминает нам о цене этой победе и исторической трагедии, которую нашему народу пришлось пережить. Возможно, по образцу с "Бессмертный полком", когда по улицам наших городов плывут бесконечные потоки ушедших в бессмертие лиц, со временем будет реализована какая-то объединяющая страну акция памяти, напоминающая нам, что советский народ тогда был един не только в час Победы, но и в те страшные месяцы военных катастроф, когда Советский Союз уже списали со счетов и берлинская пропаганда упивалась мыслью, что русские уже никогда не поднимутся. Но советский народ ведомый русским народом и под руководством Сталина был сделан из другого теста. Он нашел в себе силы подняться после чудовищных ударов, от которых разваливались европейские государства и одолеть самого страшного врага в нашей истории.

 

Помните этот день, когда известные и неизвестные герои погибая, но не сдаваясь, начали в самый черный час нашего поражения, ковать будущую Победу, которую мы празднуем 9 мая. Трудный и долгий путь к ней начался 74 года назад.

Мир праху всех защитников нашей Родины.

Edited by I./ZG1_Panzerbar
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Our generation's task - to not let it repeat. We have many differences, but we must be friendly, and never took arms again.

 

Second that  :)

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Here you go, Panzerbar:

 

75 years ago, the Great Patriotic War began.

 

Despite preparing for it since the beginning of the 1930s, for us it began badly and the price paid for the Victory was not small.

 

Thus, for our people, the 22nd June became the darkest day in the calendar, just like the 9th May became the brightest holiday.

 

On the causes for disaster and their consequences I have already written in detail five years ago (http://colonelcassad...com/409268.html) and I see no reason to go over that again right now.

 

There is nothing that unites different people today like the memories of that war, of which few witnesses remain alive. No politics, no religion nor mass culture can offer anything comparable. The last march of the “Immortal Regiment” has shown well that the very memory of the war remains a central element of our common sense, our perception of the present, of reality, wherein the Great Patriotic War remains a cornerstone of our national memory.

 

Many attempts have been made to discredit the action, saying the war happened due to 'government officers' or by the 'will of liberals', but the reality was very different.


Discussions on who is to blame occasionally pop up even today, and this speaks volumes about how painful the theme still is, and of the scale of the wounds this war left in our people. On the other side of the coin, the victory in the Great Patriotic War left as its legacy strong ties that have survived even the destruction of the Soviet Union. And the hard beginning of the war left a memory of horrible defeats suffered by our government and our army, before the enemy was stopped and destroyed.


To those who have not closely studied the pre-war and early war period, the main questions asked are still how was this allowed to happen, and how, after all that, was victory possible. In the 1980s, these questions, together with troublesome parts of our history, were used to undermine the government. In the 1990s, they were often included in anti-Soviet discourse which generated many myths, each dumber than the one before. The 2000s marked a time of progress, when after all the problems in the past, the study of our history found itself backtracked into a honest discussion free of propaganda and the rewriting of history. The shouts of 'it's all Stalin's fault' had to back down, and researchers started to dig through archives, systematising famous documents, and cleaning history of Soviet apologetics, censure, and anti-Soviet foul play. As a result, a more realistic picture of the war started to form, where the pieces of the puzzle started settling and the answers to questions showed up, from the objective facts down to subjective mistakes of Stalin, the General Staff, the Commissariat of Defence, the military district commanders, down to individual units and groups which did not follow orders through.


 

The question on if it was possible to have had the war begin a different way remained the legacy of alternative history. We will never know if it was possible to have prepared differently, and this question shall forever remain shrouded in guesses and propositions. One can say all the want that the preparation and training done were not sufficient, but on the other hand there is also the probability that if it wasn't for this training we would simply have paid the historical price and a country such as Russia would not be on the map today. Thus, here we will always have a subjective assessment of the situation.


Personally, I thought and still think that the preparations made for the war, despite all the strategic and management mistakes, allowed the Soviet Union to survive in 1941 and win the war. Errors during the war were paid in blood and lost territories. We had to learn from the best army in Europe and from them we learned that only by becoming the best army in Europe we could defeat the Germans. We paid the highest price among the participants of the war, and we need and should remember it not with pens in hand and in dastardly questions like “would it have been better to surrender Leningrad” or “would it have been better to surrender so we could ride on nice German cars”. On the 22nd June, we remember our great sacrifices as parts of the Great Victory.

 

In this particular day we need to remember these sacrifices because the tragic character of the war is linked to its very beginning. For many years some here have tried to change Victory Day into an act of mourning, to change the holiday of victory as a mourning to those killed, if only to erase from our people's memory the remembrance of Victory and the Red Banner waving over Berlin. People have tried long and hard to distance themselves from this victory because it interfered and interferes the transformation of people into a social sub-extract of nobodies who don't remember their origins. Famously they wanted to sell that our people became a nation or historically losers which destroyed the rut of civilisation, that our leadership were bloodthirsty bastards and murderers, that we only won by turning around dead bodies and then stuck the winners into prison camps. This is the matrix which tried to make people believe that their historical destiny was over, that their civilisation was a failure and that this cannot be changed. But it didn't happen – we remember and we will remember. The victories of our ancestors remind us that if we set common goals and ways to realise them, our people are capable of great things that can change the world.

 

When remembering our Great Victory, we must always remember the 22nd June 1941, which shows us the price of this victory and the historical tragedy our people had to survive. Perhaps, based on the “Immortal Regiment”'s model where an endless stream of people flow through the streets of our cities holding the immortal faces, we will sometime have an action to remind us that the Soviet people were not only united in the Victory hour, but also in the horrific months of military catastrophes, when the Soviet Union was counted as finished and the Berlin propagandists were already spreading that the Russians shall never rise up. But the Soviet people, let by the Russian people and under the leadership of Stalin were made of a different matter. Our nation found the strength in itself to stand up to these monstrous attacks which destroyed many European countries, and defeated the worst enemy in our history.

 

Remember this day, when the known and unknown heroes were killed but never gave up, and started, in the darkest hour of our defeats, to forge the future Victory which we celebrate on 9th May. The hard and long road to it started 75th years ago.

 

Peace be upon all the defenders of our Country.

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75 years ago.

 

I`ve watched a lot of docus on this war and the horrors of it. For younger people like myself, it`s still hard to imagine what the people of that time only 75 years ago must have gone through. We today really can`t appreciate the magnitude.

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Thanks for the translation Lucas.For those who don't understand Russian. Whoever wrote that original text,thanks. Very well written and I agree with the message completely. We,civilised peoples of 21st century must not allow the history to repeat. Amen.

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[Edited]

 

Totally uncalled for.

Edited by Bearcat

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Mate, if you have nothing to add but to summarise the death of 27 million people into "strong Russia tosh" then keep out and go piss at someone else's mourning day.

 

It's called respect, please have some.

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Mate, if you have nothing to add but to summarise the death of 27 million people into "strong Russia tosh" then keep out and go piss at someone else's mourning day.

 

It's called respect, please have some.

 

[Edited]

Edited by Bearcat

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[Edited]

 

I think, urinating a memory of 27 fallen people is:

 

This. Especially, a memory of over 2,5 millions of soviet soldiers, who are buried outside USSR, in liberated Europe.

 

post-1464-0-38458100-1466638864_thumb.jpg

 

post-1464-0-41680600-1466638868_thumb.jpg

 

post-1464-0-53821500-1466638877_thumb.png

 

post-1464-0-46030400-1466639089_thumb.jpg

Edited by Bearcat
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Tell us more about these pictures Panzerbar.  What do they show?

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[Edited]

 

1. Count some. I dont know even one.

 

2. There were no national harrasment/persecutions on people, because they are jews, in Soviet Union. We didnt not Concentration camps for Jews, like Nazi Germany did, or Democratic UK did, during WWII.

 

3.1. What is simultaneous splitting? It happened on 30 september 1938, when Czechoslowakia was occupied by Germany and Poland

3.2. Soviet Russia vs coalition of Poland+Germans+"White Army" in 1918-1930 - I may remind You, that war started when Polish army invaded in Russia, supported by Germans, White Army and other, including USA+Japan (in Vladivostok, Far east of Russia), and UK + USA armies in Murmansk (North of Russia).

3.3. Germany and USSR were not allies. AS You may know, germans fought against soviets in Spain. USSR and 3rd Reich had Nonagression pact. This is quite differ from "Allies".

 

Gentlemen, let not be this thread fall into russophobic course. If You dont want to tell something, just dont, pls.

Thx.

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[Edited]

Edited by Bearcat

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If this were a Pearl Harbor thread, or a D Day thread, or a Horoshima thread, or a BoB thread.. or a Dresden thread ... olr any other thread memorializing any part of the horror that was WWII I would expect the same level of respect for the history as I do in this one. The next person who brings this thread anywhere close to current events will earn a minumum 3 day ban and a possible locked thread. Keep it historic .... as in WWII historic .. or do not post.

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What is going on in this thread? :blink:

 

 

Half of the posts have been scensored and I guess rightfully. This leaves me a bit baffled.

 

June 22, 1941 was when hell broke lose. The eastern front was something unprecedented. The racial, antisemitic and anti-slavic/bolshevic war of extermination was the soul of the eastern front. You could hate stalin or not but the germans would kill you anyway if you were of no use for them. People don't just miraculously make room for 'Lebensraum im Osten' and the Thousand-Year Reich. People there knew they needed to fight and they had no choice.

 

As Joachim Fest said in his biography of Hitler:

» wie sehr der Feldzug auch strategisch mit dem Gesamtkrieg verbunden war, bedeutet er doch dem Wesen und der Moral nach etwas gänzlich Neues; gleichsam den dritten Weltkrieg «.

("As much as the campaign was strategically connected to the overall war, it meant by the nature and morality of it something entirely new:  so to speak, World War III .")

 

 

Everyone should remember what happed from that day on and everyone should be reminded that it's everybodies duty to stop this from ever happening again. The lives lost from that day on should not be used for propaganda purposes and hate for todays political atmosphere is of no matter here.

 

Let's hope this world turns out to something better in the future.

Edited by 71st_AH_Jordan

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1. Count some. I dont know even one.

 

2. There were no national harrasment/persecutions on people, because they are jews, in Soviet Union. We didnt not Concentration camps for Jews, like Nazi Germany did, or Democratic UK did, during WWII.

 

3.1. What is simultaneous splitting? It happened on 30 september 1938, when Czechoslowakia was occupied by Germany and Poland

3.2. Soviet Russia vs coalition of Poland+Germans+"White Army" in 1918-1930 - I may remind You, that war started when Polish army invaded in Russia, supported by Germans, White Army and other, including USA+Japan (in Vladivostok, Far east of Russia), and UK + USA armies in Murmansk (North of Russia).

3.3. Germany and USSR were not allies. AS You may know, germans fought against soviets in Spain. USSR and 3rd Reich had Nonagression pact. This is quite differ from "Allies".

 

Gentlemen, let not be this thread fall into russophobic course. If You dont want to tell something, just dont, pls.

Thx.

Wrong- the USSR and Germany were Allies  at the begining of WW II. Additionally, The USSR unprovoked invaded Poland on 9-17 in accordance with an agreement it entered into with Germany. The battle with Poland ended  10-6, so they fought with Germany for more than half of this battle. 

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Finnland fought along with Nazi Germany from june 1941 to september 1944 against USSR. According to Your logic, was Finnland an Ally to Germany?

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According to Your logic, was Finnland an Ally to Germany?

 

Is this some sort of trick question? Of course they were. 

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Is this some sort of trick question? Of course they were. 

 

Yes, its a trick question.

 

 

 

During the Continuation War (1941–1944) Finland was co-belligerent with Nazi Germany against the Soviet Union. Details here.

 

Co-belligerence is the waging of a war in cooperation against a common enemy without a formal treaty of military alliance.

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I was at a former East Prussian - Lithuanian border point a couple of years ago and noticed this stone.

 

LT%20EPr_zpsgq4cvcta.png

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It says that on that spot first border guardsman has been killed at 4:00 morning 22nd June 1941. It was NKVD unit.

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šlovė didvyriams - Glory to heroes (lithuanian).

 

Your name it yet unknown

Your feat is immortal

 

In this very place, at 4:00 am, on 22 june 1941, 

first guardsman of 12th Outpost, 3rd Comandature,

of  106th Border Regiment of NKVD USSR, has been killed.

And Great Pathriotic War started.

 

 

Thx Brano for translate.

 

I just added the details.

This memory stone is not in Poland, but in Lithuania.

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