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LLv34_Untamo

Finnish VirtualPilots - Dynamic War

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Temuri what is the most efficient way to capture enemy airfields ? How do you trigger the front line to move and the mission to rotate before its time ?

 

I was playing as VVS with a couple of friends yesterday. We were trying to figure out the mechanics behind capturing airfields, so operating from klin, we took out the nearby German Depot, and defenses, triggering a tank attack. The tanks broke through, and we continued on to the nearby airfield (beginning with A) and shut it down.

I had a read of the mission briefing, which said you had to wait for the map to rotate, which was still about 3 hours away. On map rotation our defenses were immediately under enemy tank attack, not sure why, because there would have been no time to get our defenses below 50% but we successfully picked off the enemy tanks before we logged, but I've seen you almost single handedly, capture VVS airfields, so wondered how you do it.

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When a tank battle is next to an airfield, like it currently is with Tank Base 1018 next to Alferevo:

Alferevo1018.png

and that tank battle is won, the airfield becomes capturable. There will be text showing "Close and capture airfield" when it is so.

 

However, if there is another tank battle between the current one and the airfield, then the airfield doesn't become capturable. Instead, the next tank battle becomes "contested", i.e. it may be picked to the next mission. "Contested" tank battles are picked to the mission randomly, as we can't have all of them in the mission, it would be too heavy. In addition, we don't have AI or crystal ball to determine which tank bases the players would like to have active in the next mission.

 

The next mission is generated when there is nothing to do in the current mission or the mission time runs out. "Nothing to do" here means that all tank battles are resolved and no airfield is in capturable state. So, to rotate the mission earlier than mission time running out, conquer all enemy tank bases and capture any capturable airfields. 

 

The enemy tank attack you refer to is actually a bug in the system. Untamo is investigating this.

 

Our capturing of the VVS airfields has been about:

1. Check if there's a tank base that is adjacent to an airfield, i.e. one that after winning will put the airfield into capturable state.

2. Check the status of that tank base with the "<field" command, e.g. "<field 1018", and note what is the repair time and which depot/factory the repair is coming from.

3. If the repair time in step 2 is quite low (~<30-50 mins), go and destroy the depot/factory repairing the tank base first. Then check status again. Repeat until there's enough repair time.

4. Destroy the enemy tank base, make sure own tanks reach enemy tank base line.

5. Close and capture airfield.

Edited by LLv34_Temuri

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One addition: if an airfield is in a motti (i.e. it has no connection via tank bases to own working depots/factories), it will immediately become capturable.

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Also Jelly Doughnut if you happen to be reading, I apologize if I seem a little anti social, but I play exclusively in VR and can't easily fly and type at the same time.

What happened on our last encounter ? I was running for home in my IL2, tree dodging, when I saw on chat that you had been killed.  

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There is one thing on there that we found somewhat annoying. We hit a defensive position and reduced it substantially, bunkers, AAA, tanks, arty, etc. This triggered the friendly tank attack. Unfortunately that failed and after a certain point everything in the def position magically reset back to the undamaged state, very frustrating, esp when you are near the target and all the flak respawns. 

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S!

 

To make sure the friendly tanks make it through, almost every defensive unit in the enemy tank base must be detroyed. Especially the indirect fire units, they kill your tanks very efficiently.

 

Check the enemy tank base respawn times first with the "<field" command (for example: "<field 1234")! The respawn times can be really short, if there is a enemy depot/factory close to the tank base. You must destroy that depot/factory to increase the enemy's respawn times. Then the respawn time is determined by the second closest depot/factory etc.

Edited by LLv34_Untamo

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S!

 

We made it so, that the friendly tanks start their attack when the enemy base is at 50% to put pressure on the players, so they can't fuss around a long time :) ... They must destroy the defences fast, otherwise the friendly tanks get pummeled :)

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Yeah, do check the respawn times with the <field command, then go destroy depot/factory before attacking the tank base .. Use the <field command on everything, it helps a lot :)

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Pre dawn attack from the other day.  Really enjoyed this, we don't see enough of this in MP

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well to be fair, my wing mates, in the PE-2's probably softened a few up with their bombs :)

 

Really enjoyed the pre dawn strike though, I suppose the long mission timers make these possible, but it's beautiful seeing your cockpit instruments glowing in the dark, and watching the sun come up

Edited by =11=herne

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I also dropped the number of tank battles taken to a mission to 3, to see if a lighter mission would result in the server not jamming.

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Hey LLv34 guys, 

 

again to your AAA Settings:

 

Please rethink your AAA Settings at Tank Bases, Depots and Factorys, please adjust ther Level. Its just a matter of luck to survive a mission. 

Let them as they are on Airfields or put more AAA on them to prevent an instant lone wolf capture, but the current AAA level is just ridiculously unrealistic. 

They dont need any time to lock you up, they almost dont need time to adjust their aiming, they always have the correct deflection value even at over 1500m (!!!), trust me, this is absolutely stupid and kills any kind of immersion on your server. Dont get me wrong, i love your server, but knowing that even the 100000000% prepared 6 ship mission will end in a desaster cause the AAA acts like 100 Gepard AAA tanks with radar guided deflection calculation f*****s everything up. 

 

Put more AAA on the airfields but PLEASE correct their skill-level. Everyone I know who is flying on your Server has that opinion. 

 

 

Thank you very much, 

 

 

KG33 Momsen

  • Upvote 1

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I also dropped the number of tank battles taken to a mission to 3, to see if a lighter mission would result in the server not jamming.

Apparently not  :dash:

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Hey LLv34 guys, 

 

again to your AAA Settings:

 

Please rethink your AAA Settings at Tank Bases, Depots and Factorys, please adjust ther Level. Its just a matter of luck to survive a mission. 

Let them as they are on Airfields or put more AAA on them to prevent an instant lone wolf capture, but the current AAA level is just ridiculously unrealistic. 

They dont need any time to lock you up, they almost dont need time to adjust their aiming, they always have the correct deflection value even at over 1500m (!!!), trust me, this is absolutely stupid and kills any kind of immersion on your server. Dont get me wrong, i love your server, but knowing that even the 100000000% prepared 6 ship mission will end in a desaster cause the AAA acts like 100 Gepard AAA tanks with radar guided deflection calculation f*****s everything up. 

 

Put more AAA on the airfields but PLEASE correct their skill-level. Everyone I know who is flying on your Server has that opinion. 

 

 

Thank you very much, 

 

 

KG33 Momsen

First of all, thank you for your interest in our server.

 

Currently the AI on tank base AAA is "Normal". German 37 mm and 88 mm (and Russian equivalents) at airfields, depots, and factories is the same, while the 20 mm and the Russian 25 mm at airfields, depots, and factories is "High". If we drop the AI to "Low", they can't hit anything, ever (e.g. the 88s shoot nowhere near the plane in straight and level flight).

 

Options:

- Drop AI to "Low" on tank bases: No, can't do. It would reduce the tank base AAA to mere fireworks display.

- Drop the AI of 88 mm and 37 mm at airfields to "Low": No. Same reason as above. Where's the immersion when you can't even see the 88 puffs when on level autopilot?

- Drop AI of 20 mm and 25 mm at airfields, depots, and factories to "Normal": Maybe, but what I gather from your description is that you feel even "Normal" is too accurate. Correct me if I understood you wrong.

- Reduce the number of AAA pieces on the tank bases. Maybe, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

- Did I miss an option?

 

Personally, I feel there is too big a gap between "Low" and "Normal" AI.

 

It's also a question of tactics. I assume you do attacks more in jabo style than level bombing, based on the altitudes you spoke of before (of course cloud cover is a factor here too). When attacking this way, it's highly advisable to have one or two planes (preferably fighters) drag the AAA, leaving the other planes in the flight time to aim and destroy the AAA pieces.

 

We are able to destroy all the AAA at tank bases alone, when there are no enemy planes harassing us. Sure it will take a couple of round trips to do it with a single plane, but we can do it. So can you. Tactics and practice.

  • Upvote 2

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Hey LLv34 guys, 

 

again to your AAA Settings:...

 

I can personally kill the tank base (depot, airfield etc.) AAA totally alone, without any help. And I am no superhuman to my knowledge. There are proven tactics that let me do this. If I can do it, so can you. We scale the difficulty on this server using ourselves as a scale, and we don't make anything impossible. As said, we can do it alone, so with 6 planes (and correct tactics) it should be a walk in the park.

 

Pro tips:

Use big bombs to silence the AAA. Never fly straight. If you want to level bomb (and fly straight), go high. The level bombing sight in this game lets you easily hit point targets from 5km.

 

My favourite loadout as German to do anti-AAA work: Bf110 G2 with 1000+250kg.

As Russian: Pe-2 2x500kg.

  • Upvote 1

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Had a couple of occasions today where you land, but are not able to click finish flight. Tried leaving and rejoining server but it wouldnt let me rejoin, I guess because server reckons I am still in it ?

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Had a couple of occasions today where you land, but are not able to click finish flight. Tried leaving and rejoining server but it wouldnt let me rejoin, I guess because server reckons I am still in it ?

Yeah, it jammed a couple of times yesterday, after I set the mission to be a little lighter. Raised the number of tank battles back to four. I wish there was a way to debug the dserver.

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I can personally kill the tank base (depot, airfield etc.) AAA totally alone, without any help. And I am no superhuman to my knowledge. There are proven tactics that let me do this. If I can do it, so can you. We scale the difficulty on this server using ourselves as a scale, and we don't make anything impossible. As said, we can do it alone, so with 6 planes (and correct tactics) it should be a walk in the park.

 

Pro tips:

Use big bombs to silence the AAA. Never fly straight. If you want to level bomb (and fly straight), go high. The level bombing sight in this game lets you easily hit point targets from 5km.

 

My favourite loadout as German to do anti-AAA work: Bf110 G2 with 1000+250kg.

As Russian: Pe-2 2x500kg.

 

 

Its good that you can do that alone, but makes no change to the ridiculous unrealistic behaviour of these AAA guns. 

 

I'm flying IL2 for 15 years now and never had so heavy problems getting around AAA installations. The only way to get around them is the "FLAK-Reiter", but if you basically dont have one, you are pretty much dead. 

Next thing: If we loose 3 ships out of six at a distance beyond 1.5km away from our target just because of laser guided-non deflection-radar operated - jesus christ AAA, than its not about tactics, its about the settings. 

 

 

Next thing:

 

Would it be possible to add trains and transport convois operating in the Hinterland? 

To avoid spawning during the mission, you could try to spawn them right at the beginning and "loop" their waypoints. It would add great mission opportunitys and a lot of immersion. 

 

 

Thank you, 

 

Momsen

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Its good that you can do that alone, but makes no change to the ridiculous unrealistic behaviour of these AAA guns. 

 

I'm flying IL2 for 15 years now and never had so heavy problems getting around AAA installations. The only way to get around them is the "FLAK-Reiter", but if you basically dont have one, you are pretty much dead. 

Next thing: If we loose 3 ships out of six at a distance beyond 1.5km away from our target just because of laser guided-non deflection-radar operated - jesus christ AAA, than its not about tactics, its about the settings. 

Like I said earlier, there's too big a gap between "Normal" and "Low" AI. "Normal" AI can hit you, "Low" will not. So at least partially it is about settings.

 

 

Would it be possible to add trains and transport convois operating in the Hinterland? 

To avoid spawning during the mission, you could try to spawn them right at the beginning and "loop" their waypoints. It would add great mission opportunitys and a lot of immersion. 

We did have some convoys and trains a while back. There were some challenges with them. What do you mean by "looping" their waypoints?

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Thinking about AAA... Currently the AAA has unlimited ammo. I'll need to check what mechanics there are for providing more ammunition for the AAA when the ammo is limited.

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My 2 cents on the aaa question:

I think  AAA on normal is good, it should be near suicide to do a solo run on a position.
But the AA is a problem imo. even when approaching with multiple stukas from 2k the light AA will shoot the formation out of the sky, before they are even in position to start the drop.
The problem is that the light AA is consistently able to shoot you out of the sky before you are even able to drop the bombs.
Its far from impossible to attack targets this way, but it sure is very frustrating.
I think the light AA should be put on normal and maybe the AAA on hard, because I think heavy AAA is less consistent on higher skill then the light AA.

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I don't think I've ever been hit on this server by flak popping, but I do sometimes fail to dodge the tracer, and I find that I am actually my own worst enemy, during strafing runs I am target fixated for far too long usually ramming my damn target, and so I rarely get my plane back to the airfield in a serviceable condition lol

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Hello, 

 

I think actually AAA level is good. If level go down, targets will be supereasy.

 

Like some pilot wrote adove... one skilled pilot can kill alone all de AAA .... i try some tests... my best result is kill 5 of 6 AAA in Antitank position with a Lagg3 .... no easy task but im playing alone!!! i can imagine what can i do whit some kind of colaboration.

 

If you planed atack 3 stukas togheter... call a fighter for drag AAA , or change formation for 2 stukas an one Bf for drag AAA for example. 2 Fighters on coordinated atack over AAA position can destroy all AAA very easy.

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Looks also the statistic, the number of pilots die through the flak.

Not by hunters as it was on the eastern front.

There are no targets without flak (convoy, trains, ships, bridges)

How is ever to achieve HS123 in the game

There should be no flak level "high" to depot, tank base.

At airfields with a few levels "High" is ok.

 

1.The game flak is the unrealistic I know shoots at fog 1500m if you can not even see it.

 

2.Flak 72, Flak 61 shoots with closed cloud cover at 3250m target-accurate, He111 the engine.

 

Flak level

"Low" is not to be used. (26 + pilots)

"Normal" is good. (36 + pilots)

"High" is like ACE only for ADW or (74 + pilots)

 

There are so many new, single pilots.

Do you want to lose it?

 

They will vote with the feet.

Edited by 7./SchG.2*SirAthlon
  • Upvote 1

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the point of new single pilots is interesting....  but i assume ( after long time playing and learning ) the fustration is part of learning and most of time cause of proud when things go well.

 

Admins have to decide, from my point of view flack is ok, but is true im veteran ataking to ground.   :)  whatever will be decided about flak,  is fine for me.

Edited by RedEye_Tumu

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Hello, server Admins, first thanks for your very nice Server concept.

But what is total Bullshit is the extrem Flaklevel! Laser guided flak, that cuts the Glaswings or kills immediately, no matter what height or visibility. Is that a Flightsim or a Flaksim?

 

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Hello, server Admins, first thanks for your very nice Server concept.

But what is total Bullshit is the extrem Flaklevel! Laser guided flak, that cuts the Glaswings or kills immediately, no matter what height or visibility. Is that a Flightsim or a Flaksim?

 

me and my squadmates did some sorties on this server yesterday. The AA was dangerous, but not the way you say it.

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