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It seems that a lot of the squads who flew Russian (and won) last campaign - even though the numbers were still unbalanced then - switched side to blue. Could it be they knew [space intentionally left blank so as not to single out any persons] would be flying blue this campaign? Could it be they didn't want to have to fly against [space intentionally left blank so as not to single out any persons]?

Maybe I'm being too cynical, but comparing the top 15 squads this campaign to the last, several switched from red. "Blue lost even when they outnumbered red by 10-15-20-25-30 pilots! I know! I'll switch to blue...

 

Some pilots tried to fix the wrong problem. Instead of going - well I wonder why the team with higher player counts is getting TRASHED (the only close one was Map #1), why is that? 

  • Lack of coordination! (false) Could it be better? Like everything in life. Is it the reason for 5-0? I have a bridge to sell you in the desert. 
  • Blue pilots on average are newer pilots with less hours? Mostly accurate. But red also has it's fair share of new pilots. I've seen calls out to the chat to explain 'how to taxi red plane' often.
  • Maybe the IL-2's ability to destroy tank columns easily is a bit OP? Mostly accurate.
  • Maybe certain people have no lives and play this server over 6-8 hours a day?

So what's the reason? How did red with lower numbers constantly not only beat, but embarrass the opposition? The answer is so simple and staring at all of us in the face...yet...

The silver lining is, maybe now a lot of these squads who have flown red previously and are now flying blue can see for themselves there is very good coordination. The problem never was that blue team is 'lol so stupid'. 

Edited by StG77_Kondor

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It seems that a lot of the squads who flew Russian (and won) last campaign - even though the numbers were still unbalanced then - switched side to blue. Could it be they knew [space intentionally left blank so as not to single out any persons] would be flying blue this campaign? 

no

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Kondor..... this edition have many changes.

 

Im sure if some squads with excelent aces on it, change to blue, the balance move to blue... but there are more questionable changes for this edition, under my point of view.

 

Tank limit its one of this points. Ammo limitation its another....

 

I think.

 

:)

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Kondor..... this edition have many changes.
 
Im sure if some squads with excelent aces on it, change to blue, the balance move to blue... but there are more questionable changes for this edition, under my point of view.
 
Tank limit its one of this points. Ammo limitation its another....
 
I think.
 
:)

 

 

You got it right, but flipped priorities. If blue was already outnumbering red, and still losing...why switch to blue if you were flying red? Especially if you were one of many complaining (justifiably - even if results didn't match the #s) about team balance during the last war?

 

The good news is, the changes you may not like, are easy changes to change back, or modify in a way to make everyone (lol...ok maybe MOST) people happy. The real challenge is trying to solve the balance issue. We've had good ideas from several so far, including Roo5ter. It doesn't take much to get the top representatives of say, the top 25 squads in terms of server participation, to make sure both red and blue are more equally represented. 

 

EDIT: When I say 'you' I don't mean you personally. Just red pilots who switched to blue for this campaign. :)

Edited by StG77_Kondor

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If blue was already outnumbering red, and still losing...why switch to blue if you were flying red? Especially if you were one of many complaining (justifiably - even if results didn't match the #s) about team balance during the last war?

 

 

Because many red players always have to play red for it to produce balance but also want to fly LW from time to time? I played all rounds of TAW on the red side and would like to play LW too some time but some guys here think that they have more right to fly LW than others ;)

Edited by 216th_Jordan
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You got the same problem in Random expert server , it was often full with 65 blue and 15 red. It is nothing to be done about it. But it for sure kill some of the fun

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...It's a bit of a shame. I'm short on time right now and when I find some hours I fly BlueFlag because TAW right now feels dirty like a Bukake-Party...

 

Isn't it the same in Blueflag though? 40 vs. 10 most of the time, I presume? Red seems to have a serious image problem...

Edited by DerNeueMensch

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Isn't it the same in Blueflag though? 40 vs. 10 most of the time, I presume? Red seems to have a serious image problem...

Don't tell me about Blueflag. Its the same shit over there and even REDs are smaller in numbers they still push BLUE to map border :) 

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Well to be fair, when it's 40-10, it's effectively only about 15-10.

 

Only 10 of that 40 are consistently flying attack/bomber, and the 30 fighters will mostly be in the wrong place. Those fighters that do find something to shoot down, of the 5 on the reds tail, 2-3 are useless as the red will be shot down or chased away regardless.

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I can't wait til next campaign when we are theorycrafting on why Blue is getting shut out 5-0!

j/k... kinda..... maybe.... we will see.

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I don't really see the changing of the tank limit as a bad idea, firstly 1400 planes vs 400 tanks? Those numbers not totally inaccurate, however this is player vs AI that is conveniently placed in columns on roads (yeah you still wanna use roads in tanks but you get the point, you dont have to search them and they are static and nicely bunched up)

The problem with the tank victory is it basically was a victory for the side that is being pushed if they simply held out for long enough, there is no way of telling your tanks where to go and was basically a question of Nightowls and Bumrushing enemy tanks when they got close to active AFs before the enemy could even get there, I'm speaking of a whole convoy lasting less than 10-15 mins  after restart. 

(a minor improvement for that would be that tank convoys would not aim to attack active AF)

 

-If you kill tanks there should be less tanks the enemy has available, I've seen ~200 tanks been killed in 1-2 nightshifts if they pushed for it.

 

on the IL2 having 23mm removed firstly * VYa23 and Sh37 for IL-2 may be unavailable on some airfields.

People act like there are no 23mms around, and if they are available everywhere they are going to be used everywhere (mostly to shred recreational pilots flying 109s)... Il2 still carries 6x 100kg bombs and AT rockets (admitedly very hard to direct hit)

And really the most easy and reliable way of killing tanks is these bombs which is more potent than the german attackers unless you have a god using 50kg bombracks to nail those in less than a 1m radius around the tank.

Also the 23mm needs shots placed at less than 300m, with (from time to time really hard gusty) wind and potential squirrels surrounding the tanks the average joe will need time to get some tankkills. Dshks and 37mm shred any german plane while the Il2 being the Il2, in a headon you better aim for the wings or tailfin :P

 

Now before every Il2 aces gets mad at me and LW pilots will still say IL2 still OP: moar softtargets please, ships, trainstations, logistic points and potentially more reconnaissance required, it always has been beneficial to the vvs not to attack the german army in obvious spots.

 

+1 on coop TAW german numbers are proven to be inflated after competency from vvs swapped over and maps rolls in 1-2 days.  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 

How does the faction change work excatly? Change the Profile at 1CGS to have the same name but a modified squadtag and PM admins?

Edited by =FEW=N3croo

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I can't wait til next campaign when we are theorycrafting on why Blue is getting shut out 5-0!

 

j/k... kinda..... maybe.... we will see.

I think going through 2 campaigns with no mission changes would help us learn more about the real issues. If we change the mission parameters each campaign while people are also switching sides, we'll have to limit ourselves to only theorycrafting since we will have too many variables at play to make a correct analysis

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Because many red players always have to play red for it to produce balance but also want to fly LW from time to time? I played all rounds of TAW on the red side and would like to play LW too some time but some guys here think that they have more right to fly LW than others ;)

This!

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Red seems to have a serious image problem...

 

We have a great deal of people not relating to Russian WW 2 aircraft, you find them in US and some places in western Europe. When we go PTO , these people will migrate to US side and the problem then will be filling up the Japanese side, especially the general purpose aircrafts. This time I will choose what I want , not what the majority wants. For me Russian planes is what I like best, so I am personally ok with things, I just aint satisfied with the rate of FM revising Red side got 

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Because many red players always have to play red for it to produce balance but also want to fly LW from time to time? I played all rounds of TAW on the red side and would like to play LW too some time but some guys here think that they have more right to fly LW than others

 

with more you mean exclusively  ;), A max row of 1 campaign in LW then you have to switch and get into the cold water of managing radiators and mixtures!

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We have a great deal of people not relating to Russian WW 2 aircraft, you find them in US and some places in western Europe.

 

IMO they are just too lazy to fiddle with prop pitch, mixture and rads. That stuff is auto on most LW rides.

All the political high horse posturing just makes me laugh :biggrin:

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on the IL2 having 23mm removed firstly * VYa23 and Sh37 for IL-2 may be unavailable on some airfields.

People act like there are no 23mms around, and if they are available everywhere they are going to be used everywhere (mostly to shred recreational pilots flying 109s)... Il2 still carries 6x 100kg bombs and AT rockets (admitedly very hard to direct hit)

 

 

Just a thought.  What if different levels of significance were placed on different airfields?  For example, your paved double runway airfield had all aircraft and all mods.

 

Backwater airfields that are dirt with 1 runway were somewhat limited when it came to 1k bombs, 37mm or whatever.  Just a thought.  Would take a lot of time to plan and implement so I'm really just speaking out loud on something not likely to be here in the near future.  Not trying to get into some very specific conversation about this and that but wouldn't mind hearing opinions on the overall idea and possible cause and effect.

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How does the faction change work excatly? Change the Profile at 1CGS to have the same name but a modified squadtag and PM admins?

In your account on the IL-2 website, change your name. Then create a TAW account with that name. Then log into the game and play on the server.

 

From then on you can switch back and forth between accounts by just changing your account name on the IL-2 website.

 

If you're not in a squadron, you can easily do this while keeping the same core name by just editing the squadron tag

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IMO they are just too lazy to fiddle with prop pitch, mixture and rads. That stuff is auto on most LW rides.

All the political high horse posturing just makes me laugh :biggrin:

Can we please stop with soviet planes mythical engine management, it's easy like driving a car. Yay, radiator management.. so hard.. with WARNING ICON popping up on screen  :clapping:  So elite skills  :lol:

Second, please use correct terms, USSR planes got Constant Speed Propellers, pilot is controlling RPM and MP, not a prop pitch.

Third, please stop with politics. For you it's funny, for someone it's a bad memories from childhood and from grandparents stories.

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Can we please stop with soviet planes mythical engine management, it's easy like driving a car. Yay, radiator management.. so hard.. with WARNING ICON popping up on screen  :clapping:  So elite skills  :lol:

Second, please use correct terms, USSR planes got Constant Speed Propellers, pilot is controlling RPM and MP, not a prop pitch.

Third, please stop with politics. For you it's funny, for someone it's a bad memories from childhood and from grandparents stories.

 

As with many Italians, my family, both on my mother's and father's side, had its share of civilian victims of allied bombings. There were about 150.000 Italian civilians killed, most women and children and old people.

So I'm far from making fun of anybody's family war memories.

 

However it was almost 80 years ago, and it does not prevent me from enjoying a game that happens to be a WW2 combat flight simulation. If I were in anyway still haunted by those memories I would steer well clear of BOX or any other game of the sort, and I suppose the same of all other forum participants.

 

And I can't help finding rather comic that grown up men refuse to play the game on one side or the other due to political reasons. But to each his own, I guess :)

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I never said it removed the need for balance. My point was that restricting someone to a specific team has a more negative effect on people's enjoyment since here the tools (the aircraft) given to each team are different and many people want to play on a certain team for those tools

 

 

Because many red players always have to play red for it to produce balance but also want to fly LW from time to time? I played all rounds of TAW on the red side and would like to play LW too some time but some guys here think that they have more right to fly LW than others ;)

 

I am very pro choice. Off course it is best if everybody can just hop into the plane he/she/it likes. And offcourse it is somewhat negative if you are assigned to one side. But I actually would, too, would like to play blue. But the problem is, that if just some of the people who do switch sides and balance teams go blue, we suddently don´t have any game at all, because the overhang of "LW ONLY!!!11!" players is so much more massive then the crowd willing to play both sides. The "I only play red!11!" crowd is nearly nonexistent at this time...

 

I used to be a quite active particpant on the friday night bomber flights for blue in 109s before I started Pe2 antics, because the side imbalance in general population servers was so glaring. But if "willing and able to fly red" auto-equals red side, because otherwise you can´t have a meaningful game at all, it is time to think about balancing mechanism. It may force some ideologically motivated people away, but it will still generate more and better gameplay then "superonesidedmassakresim... " And no 40 vs 10 is not effectively 15 vs 10, try it and you will see..

And the BS about the "soo superior red planes" stops, too, because if you have to fly them, you see that while some aspects are overpositive modeled, overall the LW has simply the better planes. Best bomber, best bomb loads, best blast radius, best fighters, best fighterbomber.. only the Ju87 is piss poor if flown as ground attacker on the deck, compared to the Il2s...

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Anyway, I'm off to join the blues in our 30+ JU88 bombing raid.

...

It felt fantastic thank you.

It was a shame as nobody even bothered to make a video about it.

 

LOL, hazaman, you are trying too hard. Everybody here knows you are just acting out your dreamgameplay fantasies on the forum and that that "30+ J88" raid did not take place...

Not because of the probabilty of lag, such a formation would cause in BoS nor the guys crashing on takeoff, but simply because we ALL here know that even at 50:3 2/3rds of the german team are still in 109s ;=) 

 

but I do got another "hitting the ground targets hard without getting eaten by flak" vid for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JjvSNqH-N8&lc

Edited by Monostripezebra

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(...) And I can't help finding rather comic that grown up men refuse to play the game on one side or the other due to political reasons. But to each his own, I guess :)

To be honest, I agree with you. But world is a strange place.

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To be honest, I agree with you. But world is a strange place.

 

Indeed.

My grandparents told me about real bombs falling on top of them and their children; if they could see me now dropping 500 kg bombs for fun, they'd be horrified :(

Maybe I should drop this hobby and take up origami or something :biggrin:

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I have given thought to the issue of allowing changing of sides during a campaign and the current stats.  Right now, in order to change sides during a campaign, you have to have two pilot IDs due to the stat structure.  You also have to change IDs on the website to access the other pilot ID.  I am not a programmer (I don't even stay at Holiday Inns) but I have worked with them in the past on interface, processes, etc. and i think the following would work nicely.

 

The way I see this could work in the stats, hopefully with little re-write as possible, is that all pilots would have two stat pages or tabs, one for each side.  All the information as currently presented on your pilot for planes, awards, statistics and sorties would stay the same, only you would have two such "sheets".  You'd be given the normal plane set for each side at the beginning of each map.  The appropriate sheet would be updated depending on which side you flew in a sortie.  Only that side would gain from a successful sortie and if you die, only that side would suffer.  You could, essentially, have two careers going at the same time.  Totals from both sheets would then be combined to arrive at pilot and squad totals in the Statistics Overview (instead of two different pilots IDs) and on the Map page where it shows top five fighter, bomber, etc.

 

This would do away with the need to have two pilot IDs and the need to reset your ID on the website.  All of the rest of the rules for CM, time outs, award of aircraft, etc. would stay the same.  Why bother?  I really believe, based on other server experience, that pilots would not only balance the server more closely but also jump to the aid the losing side, which may prolong map rotation, for good or bad.  This is more likely to happen if one can make the choice which side to fly at the time they are in the game and looking at the Briefing Map.  I also believe it would be better than some forced "auto" balance.

 

My $.50 worth.

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Salute Gents!

 

Below are the statistics I have collected from Tour001 through Tour007 which is still in progress.  I believe the single most driver of the unbalanced teams is allowing the pilots to swap back and forth between Germany and Russian.   It drives more score whoring than usual due to the lack of commitment to their country/coalition.  It's far easier to pad your stats when the numbers are grossly in your favor.

 

Here's the data and ratios:

Tour Averages           German     Russian     Ratio G:R
Tour01                   10.35        7.11     1.45:1.00
Tour02                   13.62        9.80     1.39:1.00
Tour03                   13.89       14.10     1.00:1.02
Tour04                   13.06       11.24     1.16:1.00
Tour05                    4.28        3.72     1.15:1:00
Tour06                    9.66        6.90     1.40:1.00
Tour07 (in progress)     12.98        6.22     2.09:1.00        (in progress so far)

Here are the Charts:

Tour001:

post-24105-0-01057700-1489714279_thumb.jpg

 

Tour002:

post-24105-0-62402600-1489714280_thumb.jpg

 

Tour003:

post-24105-0-96134200-1489714282_thumb.jpg

 

Tour004:

post-24105-0-54011400-1489714284_thumb.jpg

 

Tour005:

post-24105-0-55174200-1489714286_thumb.jpg

 

Tour006:

post-24105-0-57573700-1489714288_thumb.jpg

 

Tour007-In Progress:

post-24105-0-50584400-1489714290_thumb.jpg

 

I hope this provides some insight.

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Or maybe just more signed up for LW this time because the tank kill limit was taken off or some other factor.  Not sure I can make the leap from correlation to causation being switch overs.  The only way to know for sure is to review actual data on the number of people with two pilot IDs, and the number of times flown in each.  I believe this is a very small number, but then again I have no hard evidence either.  It would be very helpful to know that data.  If anyone has this info it is probably only the admins.

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Stick, the data is there. The last campaign and this one have been, in so far as I'm aware, the only ones where players had the option to switch sides. Campaigns 1-5 show fairly even team numbers. The sixth and seventh is where you start to see large, consistent, player counts on one side. This suggests that the two, stacked teams and being able to switch sides, are related. I don't think that stat padding is the motivator for it though. To be perfectly frank I don't have the slightest clue why it is happening. I would think that allowing people to change sides would result in more balance in a combat sim: If I want to fight there has to be an enemy, if my team has a higher percentage of the total population there are fewer legitimate targets for me to shot so I should change teams making targets easier to find. Obviously the TAW community's common sense differs from my own. It is interesting, and I would very much like to know why this is.

Edited by Disarray

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Isn't it the same in Blueflag though? 40 vs. 10 most of the time, I presume? Red seems to have a serious image problem...

 

 

Don't tell me about Blueflag. Its the same shit over there and even REDs are smaller in numbers they still push BLUE to map border :)

 

Yes that's right.

 

Blue has the same problem like LW. They have the famous F15 and A10 and the Huey and so on. And I think this applies to everybody, to me, to you and to almost everyone starting with Flight Sim. We tend to fly first what we know. Since IL2 and DCS have a steep learning curve, it take some time and effort to understand the details of the planes and slowly one might start to understand the pro and con of the enemy aircraft. At some point, at least for me, I started to wonder how it is to fly them.

 

So at least for western hobby-pilots, they use the stronk russian planes when they already have a couple of houndreds of hours of flight excercise. This may explain too why usually reds have better statistics then blues... or reformulated, why LW usually has more attrition in pilots or planes.

 

But this are hypothesis based on obersavtions. What do the more experienced bitter vets think? 

In every case, tutorials like the ones of HVB and Sheriff are highly geniuine to improve the skill of every willing beginner-pilot. And they encourage to try new stuff because they provide theoretical help in a entertaining way.

 

Summary:

Thank god it's friday and you guys are a hell of a great community. :D 

Edited by Emuyen
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Lots of weird theories ... For my part, I am simply a practically only red pilot because I always used to choose the side with less pilots. After some years then you get used to it, you will get 1 out of 100 flights on axis side, that's just how it is. I absolutely don't care about the plane I am given. Just take it as a challenge to survive in whatever crate you get....

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Lots of weird theories ... For my part, I am simply a practically only red pilot because I always used to choose the side with less pilots. After some years then you get used to it, you will get 1 out of 100 flights on axis side, that's just how it is. I absolutely don't care about the plane I am given. Just take it as a challenge to survive in whatever crate you get....

 

This is me as well, except I occasionally say f*** it and fly LW when I really want to

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Stick, the data is there. The last campaign and this one have been, in so far as I'm aware, the only ones where players had the option to switch sides. Campaigns 1-5 show fairly even team numbers. The sixth and seventh is where you start to see large, consistent, player counts on one side. This suggests that the two, stacked teams and being able to switch sides, are related. I don't think that stat padding is the motivator for it though. To be perfectly frank I don't have the slightest clue why it is happening. I would think that allowing people to change sides would result in more balance in a combat sim: If I want to fight there has to be an enemy, if my team has a higher percentage of the total population there are fewer legitimate targets for me to shot so I should change teams making targets easier to find. Obviously the TAW community's common sense differs from my own. It is interesting, and I would very much like to know why this is.

 

I disagree with your assumption based on the data below.  

 

Campaign pilot averages from Pand's post:

 

#...........LW.........VVS......Total

1-5:........11..........9.2.......20.2

6-7:........11.3.......6.6.......17.9

% Chg..+2.7%..-28.0%..-11.4%

 

The significant decrease in VVS pilots (28%) in the last two campaigns (where switching is allowed) is not reflected with an offsetting significant increase to LW pilots for those two campaigns.   The number of LW pilots appears fairly consistent.  Pilots do not appear to be switching as much as they are just leaving.

 

There is however still no "proof" of why the change.  For example, not having total tank kills per map could be a disincentive for VVS pilots.  If the "switch theory" is valid, then the theory should also apply to the other full real campaign server, Random Expert+, where pilots can fly either side.  Although I can't access prior stats for that server, to the best of my recollection, there were fairly balanced sides there but I could be wrong.  If I am correct, this would also tend to discount the switch theory.

Edited by 12.OIAE_Stick-95

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Apparently the campaign will last 7 maps, so the Axis basically bruteforced the victory already with 4 maps won.

Edited by Traitor

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