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Tactical Air War

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Forbidding the VYa because it is used differently ingame than IRL is not a good idea imho. You will need to be fairly close to the tank for the 23mm rounds to pierce through the weakest spots on a tanks armor. In real life a pilot would likely pull up a lot earlier and virtual pilots don't face fear of death when going down on an enemy column. Thats why the VYa can be used more efficiently ingame. Aditionally the VYa was the standard armament for the Il-2. Going for historical accuracy and then forbidding the historically accurate weapon does not make sense. 

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I use 350 meters convergence and pull up of the strafing run at about 100 meters most of the time. Still the full AP load works quite well against PzIII/PzIV. At that ranges I'm even able to destroy Pz38 frontally with three to four hits. This can't be supported by any real data or evidence. I know the VYa canons were standard late in the war but the problem is that their ingame performance is absolutelly inaccurate. It´s the same like we would have 500 kg bombs destroying heavy tanks by exploding 100 meters off the point blank.

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Forbidding the VYa because it is used differently ingame than IRL is not a good idea imho. You will need to be fairly close to the tank for the 23mm rounds to pierce through the weakest spots on a tanks armor. In real life a pilot would likely pull up a lot earlier and virtual pilots don't face fear of death when going down on an enemy column. Thats why the VYa can be used more efficiently ingame. Aditionally the VYa was the standard armament for the Il-2. Going for historical accuracy and then forbidding the historically accurate weapon does not make sense.
 

 

Virtual pilots flying their aircraft in a way that was never done IRL is a historical inaccuracy in itself, is it not? Your assumption may be correct. Unfortunately, I've yet to see evidence to back it up, but I am still investigating the issue. The other possibilities are that the simulated VYa gun or AP shell is over powered, the impact angles of shell on armor are not accurately represented in-game, or the Axis armor thickness in the simulation is not representative of the historical reality. 

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I use 350 meters convergence and pull up of the strafing run at about 100 meters most of the time. Still the full AP load works quite well against PzIII/PzIV. At that ranges I'm even able to destroy Pz38 frontally with three to four hits. This can't be supported by any real data or evidence. I know the VYa canons were standard late in the war but the problem is that their ingame performance is absolutelly inaccurate. It´s the same like we would have 500 kg bombs destroying heavy tanks by exploding 100 meters off the point blank.

3 or 4 hits? I frequently tank bust in using these and 3 or 4 isn't possible even with the larger cannons. Can you please post a video?

 

The lowest I've killed a tank with is about 5-7 volleys, so that puts it at 10-14 rounds total.

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Ban VYA + 37mm Stuka/110 until ~1943 planeset? Also ban all SC 1000 and larger bombs?

Not sure if I'd be a big fan of this, but hey - darts on a board. 

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Ban VYA + 37mm Stuka/110 until ~1943 planeset? Also ban all SC 1000 and larger bombs?

 

Not sure if I'd be a big fan of this, but hey - darts on a board. 

 

I don't agree with big bombs restrictions: LW have enough problems in winning a map. If you'll desable their bigger payloads, they won't have a chance. Same for the stuka 37mms.

I agree in increase the pilots kills number or disable it completely. Increase also vehicles and aircrafts number.

I also suggest to make harder to achieve the best planes each map. So doing this we will maybe find some macchis and p-40s flying.

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Now that the tank limit is gone I think the issue with the 23mm is less severe. And from what I read in the early IL-2 production there were different factories, one(s) producing it with ShVAK and the other(s) producing it with the Vya-23.

 

I use 350 meters convergence and pull up of the strafing run at about 100 meters most of the time. Still the full AP load works quite well against PzIII/PzIV. At that ranges I'm even able to destroy Pz38 frontally with three to four hits. This can't be supported by any real data or evidence.

 

The early-mid Panzer 38 (t) variants had 25mm of frontal armor, the later E and F variants got it's armor updated to medium tank standards (50mm in the front, 30mm in the sides). Which is the version we have in IL-2?

 

 

This whole topic about the Vya-23 is interesting indeed so I will see if I can get some calculations from which distance (and angles) the AP round would be able to penetrate 30, 20,15 and 10mm German armor plates

Edited by SuperEtendard

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The other possibilities are that the simulated VYa gun or AP shell is over powered

 

I think both are the case. I know its other gun, but take an La5 with full AP then compared to full HE belt, on the HE there will be a lot more sparkles. Meanwhile with the Vya gun every plane is simply blown up with 1 or 2 rounds, with either AP or HE. Even with the 37mm which is supposed to do more damage than 23mm you wont see the kinda damage you can reliable do with the Vya guns.

 

The AP explanation also contributes as to why german cannons seems lackluster in terms of damage performance, since they carry more HE in their belt compared to the russians.

Edited by JAGER_Staiger

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 Even with the 37mm which is supposed to do more damage than 23mm you wont see the kinda damage you can reliable do with the Vya guns.

 

This is just not true. As I long time VYa user I can tell you that. Btw: A VYa round weights ~ 200 gramms, travels at 900m/s and the VYa sends out 600s of those per minute. ;)

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Just want to point out the JU87G -> 1943 suggestion is historical.  Would really put me in a pickle for destroying tanks since that is my go to when we have CM+1 Stuka, but if we are going to try and move to a historical plane set it is worth considering or push to 1942 to meet in the middle for 1 campaign.

 

Edited by Roo5ter

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New TAW campaign starts 12.03.2017 on Sunday morning. 

 

 

Changes and new features:

  • New map "Moscow_South"
  • Campaign last 7 maps
  • No tanks limit
  • 74 slots for players
  • Airfield is closed (only closed) when is damaged more than 75%. When airfield is damaged more then 85% then it's destroyed completely (no AA and buildings) and is ready to be captured in the next mission.
  • New simple probability to capture enemy airfield by paratroops: probability % = airfield damage % 
  • To destroy bridge objective no need to destroy dugout (only bridge destruction is needed)
  • Level of supply by trains is now depended also by level of depot's destruction. (reduction up to 30% when depot destroyed)
  • New plane set proposed by StG77_HvB:

planeset_v1_4_5.jpg

* VYa23 and Sh37 for IL-2 may be unavailable on some airfields.

 

 

 

Registration is open.

 

GOOD LUCK!

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With these conditions you could just restrict access for Reds to the server.

Edited by SDVr_DecabrisT

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Great News!!!

Will we see any Battle of Kuban planes this campaign or in a next one?

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  • New plane set proposed by StG77_HvB:

Why do you deprive players of the opportunity to fly on early aircraft?

Many people want to fly on Emil, MC202 against I-16. All these Yak-1, 109F4 are already fed up on other servers, now you are adapting to them and already on the second card give the opportunity to take them, why? At least 2 cards let fly in pleasure. Why do you need MC.202 on the second map? Sense, if you already have 109F4?

 

Correct the number of planes on the first card until the war began, please.
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It is very bad that there is no possibility of flying on early aircraft (I16 vs E7). It was one of the chips of the TAW

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I like all the implemented changes from my predominantly VVS perspective, actually. It's a bit of a shame that there is no pure E-7 vs I-16 environment, but then again, it's extremely annoying to deal with Pe-2s in that environment, so I get it. Very much looking forward to the new campaign, I'll change sides like always and play German tho. :) Thank god for not adding the 190 A-5, that thing is OP as all hell right now. :D

 

Thank you very much for all your efforts, despite having less time on your hands, Kathon. Keep up the good work.

Edited by JG4_Etherlight

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Why do you deprive players of the opportunity to fly on early aircraft?
Many people want to fly on Emil, MC202 against I-16. All these Yak-1, 109F4 are already fed up on other servers, now you are adapting to them and already on the second card give the opportunity to take them, why? At least 2 cards let fly in pleasure. Why do you need MC.202 on the second map? Sense, if you already have 109F4?
 
Correct the number of planes on the first card until the war began, please.

 

The Lavochkin-Gorbunov-Gudkov LaGG-3 (Лавочкин-Горбунов-Гудков ЛаГГ-3) was a Soviet fighter aircraft of World War II. It was a refinement of the earlier LaGG-1, and was one of the most modern aircraft available to the Soviet Air Force at the time of Germany's invasion in 1941.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavochkin-Gorbunov-Gudkov_LaGG-3

 

Looks like it was fixed to me.  Surely it won't make things any easier for the Luftwaffe but the team did state they wanted to move towards a more historical engagement.

 

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The Lavochkin-Gorbunov-Gudkov LaGG-3 (Лавочкин-Горбунов-Гудков ЛаГГ-3) was a Soviet fighter aircraft of World War II. It was a refinement of the earlier LaGG-1, and was one of the most modern aircraft available to the Soviet Air Force at the time of Germany's invasion in 1941.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavochkin-Gorbunov-Gudkov_LaGG-3

 

Looks like it was fixed to me.  Surely it won't make things any easier for the Luftwaffe but the team did state they wanted to move towards a more historical engagement.

 

 

TIL World War II was a thing

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There comes the argument between not having it at all or having a somewhat improved variant.

The Ju87D3 was really late in 1941 I think.  Maybe early 42 but I need to try and find a source.  Restricting the 20mm on the LaGG is pretty close and the best solution imo since it keeps some variety in the plane set and isn't far from reality.

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There comes the argument between not having it at all or having a somewhat improved variant.

 

 LIES

 

 

Why do you deprive players of the opportunity to fly on early aircraft?
Many people want to fly on Emil, MC202 against I-16. 

 

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Friends, dont be care about historical facts,  historicity isn´t the objective for planetset, objective is provide some balance and playability.

 

)

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Why do you deprive players of the opportunity to fly on early aircraft?
 

LaGG-3 29 ser. and Yak-1 69 ser. were made in second part of 1942

 

 

There comes the argument between not having it at all or having a somewhat improved variant....   ....Restricting the 20mm on the LaGG is pretty close and the best solution imo since it keeps some variety in the plane set and isn't far from reality.

I should have said restricting 'to the' but the point still stands. 

 

Friends, dont be care about historical facts,  historicity isn´t the objective for planetset, objective is provide some balance and playability.

 

)

In response to this, obviously Kathon's intent is to move to a more historical plane set since he specifically referenced HvBs post - https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/21029-tactical-air-war/page-75?do=findComment&comment=442131

Edited by StG77_Roo5ter

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It is very bad that there is no possibility of flying on early aircraft (I16 vs E7). It was one of the chips of the TAW

Absolute agreed - it was one of the advantages of TAW overall the others that one could fly a historical plane set and not these some what childish "uber fighter vs. the rest" hustle... Would be bad if TAW goes this way as well...

 

A good (and historical correct) thing is that the JU 88 is available from the first map on...

Edited by Geleitzug

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awwwww its so nice to have TAW back :) ill be out flying. Thanks

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do i have to unload cargo in ju52 to resupply/repair? Or just despawn?

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As much as i like to see TAW back, i'm worried about it's future.

Besides very limited personal hangar and high value of virtual life (do like it both), one of the main features of TAW... it always has been about supporting ground forces. Protecting friendly, attempts to weaken enemy... Cause it's ground forces that wins wars, not planes. Airforces is just the support. TAW was exactly about it. But from this edition - it's not anymore. 

 

Sequence of changes in rules is very disappointing. LG, don't take it personal, please. I do appreciate all of your work, and do believe TAW still can be the best war-project, created by BoS/M/K community. 

All the following is addressed to LW-side in general. Side, which has been pushing and lobbying all of those changes.

 

Guys, I've seen almost every TAW campaign so far. Let's take a look back and revise main changes from start to start.

- One of the first campaigns. Limit for pilot deaths was 400 (as far as i remember). More than enough i would say. But careless Ju-87 drivers and some 109's -"i_m_gonna_turnfight_you_on_deck" managed to reach the goal. Result: Now we have 900 pilot for side limit... Impossible to loose so much. Can be deleted from map restrictions as well.

- Next one campaign (third?) Score 2:2 by map wins. Fifth map (3 wins was campaign win condition). Red side is pressed to the shore of Volga river (it was only Stalingrad map in rotation). Last 3 red airfields... And Red's won due the LW side managed to loose 900 aircrafts during the map! (Sketch, you probably can remember this last evening ;) ) A lot of airframes actually... huge amount! And what's next? Now we have limit of 1300 airframes per map ) Can be crossed out from real_2_achieve limitations.

- Do i need to remind what happened with tank limits? Now we don't have it at all... 

 

Last campaign was finished in 2 weeks. And everyone was complaining it's too fast. This one should be won by LW in one week. Recepy is easier than ever: Just few organised bomb raids. Disable and Close airfield. Paradrop it. Due to lowered damage % and simplified mechanic of paradrop-capturing, even under-average LW pilot would be able to do it. Repeat.  

24 hours for capturing all red airfields on map should be more than enough. 7 map campaign * 24 hour per map = 1 week. Congratulations!

 

You don't need to attack red columns or defence positions. Actually you don't even need to cap your own ground forces - they  don't matter anymore, thanks to your whines... Just bomb. drop. repeat. 1 week. And if you wouldn't achieve that having Ju88 from first map and F4 (the best plane in game so far) from second...  Well. Then probably you should ask about forbidding to fly red-side on this server for good. 

 

But question is, would you enjoy it?

 

All this - imho. 

 

 

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The fact that Luftwaffe is closing down map1 so quickly has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the number of tank kills no longer wins the map. At least three out of the four airfields we've captured at the time of this writing were captured by tanks (I didn't witness the fourth). Tanks that the VVS could have killed if there were 1) similar numbers on each side, and 2) people actually trying to kill them.

Things would not be progressing this fast if there was opposition.

 

The biggest problem of this server is the highly disporportionate numbers of LW vs VVS. Until those numbers get at least remotely balanced, there's no way the actual mechanics of the server can be balanced. Unless we want to balance it with those differences in mind of course.

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Things I learned on the 1st hour of this campaign:

 

1) LW bombers are incredibly predictable.

2) Ratta is my new favorite plane in any sim. Never flew it before this round (ok, maybe once on WoL for sh1ts n' gigs).

3) TrackIR is not my friend. Both my deaths are directly related to the sun shining on the window behind me and locking my view for several seconds... lol.

 

 

I find guys are worrying far too much about the macro issues. Yes, there's a place and time to "what if" everything. But it seems like people think that is 24/7! I just feel like some have lost the joy of sim flying due to some rule they deem silly. Smile!

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The fact that Luftwaffe is closing down map1 so quickly has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the number of tank kills no longer wins the map. At least three out of the four airfields we've captured at the time of this writing were captured by tanks (I didn't witness the fourth). Tanks that the VVS could have killed if there were 1) similar numbers on each side, and 2) people actually trying to kill them.

Things would not be progressing this fast if there was opposition.

 

The biggest problem of this server is the highly disporportionate numbers of LW vs VVS. Until those numbers get at least remotely balanced, there's no way the actual mechanics of the server can be balanced. Unless we want to balance it with those differences in mind of course.

 

That's pretty much spot on. I was flying the last 2 or 3 TAW campaigns as VVS, because the numbers were so terribly onesided, although I always want to switch every campaign from one side to the other. This time I decided to play LW, because it cannot be my job to always play the balancer in these situations and I finally wanted to experience the campaign from a German perspective again. Unfortunately things seem to be even worse now and I do not see a good campaign ahead of us. Alas, if we as a community flatout refuse to provide an even remotely balanced experience on TAW, we'll probably lose it. Not that the server will be switched off, but I cannot imagine that the few brave souls on the VVS side will play the punchingball for LW for much longer.

 

Quite disappointing to be honest.

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3) TrackIR is not my friend. Both my deaths are directly related to the sun shining on the window behind me and locking my view for several seconds... lol.

 

 

Crashed my hurricane today during our campaign mission because the sun confused my trackir, and it decided that I really, really, needed to examine the seat plate of my rotol equipped hurricane right as I touched down for landing.

 

Flight sims: Best played in a basement, or closet. Isn't this hobby great, or what :)

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do i have to unload cargo in ju52 to resupply/repair? Or just despawn?

 

Thought you had to open cargo door (canopy key) and then use your default key for bombs to off load cargo.

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That's pretty much spot on. I was flying the last 2 or 3 TAW campaigns as VVS, because the numbers were so terribly onesided, although I always want to switch every campaign from one side to the other. This time I decided to play LW, because it cannot be my job to always play the balancer in these situations and I finally wanted to experience the campaign from a German perspective again. Unfortunately things seem to be even worse now and I do not see a good campaign ahead of us. Alas, if we as a community flatout refuse to provide an even remotely balanced experience on TAW, we'll probably lose it. Not that the server will be switched off, but I cannot imagine that the few brave souls on the VVS side will play the punchingball for LW for much longer.

 

Quite disappointing to be honest.

How sad, was looking forward to a new round.

 

Same thing on other servers. All historical correctness (that we want) aside: We play online to have a good time. Getting whacked by superior aircraft time after time against 3vs1 numbers, that gets boring after a while.

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