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Tactical Air War

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I'm a single player at heart, and find that multiplayer on an interesting server like TAW is the perfect substitute for the lack of a dynamic campaign in BOX. I consider all you unknown strangers like a way more interesting and realistic form of AI ;), therefore don't get my panties in a bunch when I'm shot down. Having fun is what counts! :biggrin:

 

Until you run out of planes, accidentally crash-land your transport plane and are out of the server as you can't play anymore :)

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I have trouble believing this is "talent" - sorry to his many sycophants and fan-club out there, but this man is very suspicious to be up to something unsportsmanlike

 

 

I have examined the flight logs and compared one of his sorties to a few of the "average pilot" (a set of randomly chosen others) - just to see if a pattern would emerge

 

this is extremely fishy, see: http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=2102&name=MK.MrX  and compare with http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=2112&name=III./JG5_Hummel0512

 

 

the vast majority of hits are not on the plane - but on the PILOT - on the receiving end, however - they register otherwise... this could be a server quirk, but it doesn't end there

 

 

let's see someone else, for reference (our "control set"), this is what a "normal" engagement should appear like: http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=1159&name=19//curiousGamblerr -- there is a small percentage of hits to the pilot, but proportional to the small size of this target compared to the rest of the aircraft... 

 

 

you can believe whatever you want - but the numbers do reveal a statistical anomaly which is absurd to deny -- whether or not this means cheating is not my call to decide - but I will add my suspicions to the many already manifested before, and then it's up to the admins for what to make of it

Edited by 19//Moach

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What do you think about increasing a little the mission time? Current is too little to accomplish seriously most of the tasks we can actually do on your server...  Expecially if you are russian and terribly outnumbered!

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The disparity in blue vs red #'s seems to be showing - and blue has lost almost double pilots and way behind on planes. If blue can't totally wipe out reds with this planeset...well it's going to be another russian tidal wave from the beginning :)

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Until you run out of planes, accidentally crash-land your transport plane and are out of the server as you can't play anymore :)

 

Then it means it's time to go to sleep, read a good book (on the Eastern Front of course :cool:) or maybe check out what's happening in WOL or Random Expert :)

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the vast majority of hits are not on the plane - but on the PILOT - on the receiving end, however - they register otherwise... this could be a server quirk, but it doesn't end there

 

 

Looks to me like fire damage or bleeding out - the damage will continue to be inflicted until death.  Happens to me all the time even though I was only hit maybe once or twice.

 

 

On the server as a whole:

 

Balance was dismal throughout the first day. I'm hoping Pand publishes his stats for this campaign, will be interesting to see. When asked if any of the Germs wanted to switch, they all said no. This was after, in a 45 v 12 situation, a squadron of 109s descended on our Pe-2 flight a grid out of our rear airfield. Clearly they had checked the "dots" and seeing us all spawning there decided to come murder us. 

 

 

This is why I'm not opposed to the idea of being able to have a second account.  I know lots of folks aren't in favour, but it's worth a test.  I'm not a map-mover on my own and can really only help out when on comms.  I'm hoping side-switching doesn't reverse the efforts of one side or the other, but only helps move to level the playing field in the instances of 45 vs 12...

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This is why I'm not opposed to the idea of being able to have a second account.  I know lots of folks aren't in favour, but it's worth a test.  I'm not a map-mover on my own and can really only help out when on comms.  I'm hoping side-switching doesn't reverse the efforts of one side or the other, but only helps move to level the playing field in the instances of 45 vs 12...

 

Works splendidly.

 

OXqKuug.jpg

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just 20 minutes before was something like 34 vs 7.

From "the ten principles of economy":

3 individuals respond to incentives

 

Set a lot of incentives for flying reds or/and disincentives for being LF

Edited by =FEW=ayamoth89

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Works splendidly.

 

OXqKuug.jpg

 

Never said it would work, just that I hoped...

Edited by II./JG77_Tuesday

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Think the current plane set is having a negative effect on red side. 

 i-16 is way better then e-7, pe-2 is great same for IL-2, so what do you mean?

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 i-16 is way better then e-7, pe-2 is great same for IL-2, so what do you mean?

 

I agree with you - but maybe the russian players beg to differ? E7 can be shot down by all three of the russian planes. 

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Did i mention any names?

The fact that you assume those people means you thin its them :|..

LMAO..
 

Edited by =WFPK=Sshadow14

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the planeset has very little to do with it -- it's not the one you're chasing that kills you, it's his three buddies coming up on your tail

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Did i mention any names?

 

The fact that you assume those people means you thin its them :|..

 

LMAO..

 

 

Then who are you talking about? If you've been around these forums for any amount of time, when people mention suspected cheaters, they usually mean X, and he is #1 on TAW at the moment. It's not crazy to make the assumption that's who you meant.

  • Upvote 2

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I find it massively ironic that people jump on to defend an individual by name against assumptions and make the assumption that we are talking about that individual in the first place. lol

 

I won't name names because that's not the point.  The point is that the server admins should be made aware of instances of even suspected (not proven cause quite frankly there is currently no tools or ways for a player to prove anything) cheating because out of everyone they are going to have the best chances of determining it through i suppose log files, replays etc..

 

 

 

 

 

You realize that statistical anti-cheat systems (Like FairFight for example) operate not only on K/D or K/hr, but on many variables and only with a significantly higher amounts of data than a niche-game like this could provide? The really interesting stats like headshot ratio, accuracy etc. don't really apply here, since there is no known "Aimbot" from what I know. So a statistical outlier, if not beyond realistical probability, does not prove hacking, no. ^^ I am more easily convinced by behaviour than by stats in this game, to be honest, which, unfortunately, is hard to prove.

 

 

in my opinion and based on my observations, there are known people on their server who can quite definitively be shown to be exploiting/cheating in a way that will not help the health of this server however it comes down to the server owners to invest time in doing that. 

Unfortunately we don't have good tools for anti cheat, unfortunately the game design has holes in it that allow cheating potential (client side elements) so that does leave only a few ways of determining cheating. One is statistical, the other is behavioural. Neither can create a 100% proof. But they are really the only options and should probably be used by server admins.

if such issues are ignored due to 'no evidence' then its only the server that suffers as players go elsewhere. 

And yes i agree with you, i am more convinced by behaviour also, unfortunately it is by its very nature anecdotal unless recorded in very large samples (so that statistical probability and pattern are considered too!). and even then somehow has to be linked with the suspect by name which is hard in a server that doesnt show names or who killed who :)

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i-16 is way better then e-7, pe-2 is great same for IL-2, so what do you mean?

I agree with you - but maybe the russian players beg to differ? E7 can be shot down by all three of the russian planes.

 

Depends on the pilot, not the plane. The I16 is well matched against the E7, not superior.

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Its easy..

Take off
Spot enemy first
(I am in advantageous position I attack them)
(I am not in Advantageous Position i Disco or emergency land, Then take off again head back to same area with more advantage now kill that person)

1 of the common basic exploits.

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Well I loved idea about early planes and Moscow planes. But what I see again... make me change my mind. This ambitious setup or full balanced server I choose latter, even If that means copy some wol, so be it.

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I joined last campaign too late to get any conclusion. But what I saw there and here on forum was the discussion regarding the low number on LW side. Right now the situation seems to be upside down. I really doubt the current plane set has anything to do with. I-16 and 109E-7 are good match to each other. Yes the 109 still holds the card of disengaging off the fight (in theory) since it's marginally faster at deck and can dive faster. But other options are on the I-16 side (climb, turn, armament). Close support planes are balanced too. 110 and Il-2 in good balance though both are totally different. Stuka is the special case but its usage under the TAW environment is questionable. As I see it the difference between both side's bombers is marginal too since TAW is heavily tactically oriented (and that's for the best IMO).

 

For all that reason I think it's too early to determine the server population. There are too many factors need to be considered. Like in example there are some squads flying for VVS last time but are now on LW side. Or the common myth that I-16 vs 109E-7 is uneven set favoring blue side resulting in some players are waiting for next maps. Et cetera, et cetera. All have their impact on situation. Not even single campaign time span should not be fully representative in terms of players distribution. So making conclusions on two days period is just silly.

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Btw as you can see now the situation when there are low numbers on server and all these few people are flying on one side virtually unopposed has way more significant impact on map situation than when there is 30 vs 10 situation during the EU evening. 

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Btw as you can see now the situation when there are low numbers on server and all these few people are flying on one side virtually unopposed has way more significant impact on map situation than when there is 30 vs 10 situation during the EU evening. 

 

exactly my point. Yesterday evening I had the feeling that LW was bombing the hell out of VVS. And we didn't move the frontline significantly. 

Today I wake up, check the frontline drinking my coffee and ... starits is red. I just don't get it. :)

 

Seriously, someone please explain to me what I'm missing. We bombed the defenses, we bombed the tanks. We bombed the supply targets (train stations etc.)

 

This ain't a rant. I just want  to understand. Since the campaign started I almost always flew in a wing and we did either bombing defenses, tanks or CAP over important targets. I refuse to accept that this has no effect on the advancement of the LW.

 

Fly safe

Emu

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emuyen... objectives need be destroyed.

 

Last nigh we atack a complete tank column.... only 1 tank survive.... on next hour the column was beside our base ( we cant take off from this base ) , column was resupply ( not was entire again but recover 3 AAA ans some tanks ) . we need atack again for completly destroy.

 

U need destroy completly your objectives. 

 

System works ok.

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emuyen... objectives need be destroyed.

 

Last nigh we atack a complete tank column.... only 1 tank survive.... on next hour the column was beside our base ( we cant take off from this base ) , column was resupply ( not was entire again but recover 3 AAA ans some tanks ) . we need atack again for completly destroy.

 

U need destroy completly your objectives. 

 

System works ok.

 

Tumu the server works fine. I love TAW! I never said that this is a server side problem.

 

I reformulate my question: What the hell is LW dowing with 30 pilots but no advancement?

I see a lot of effort from various pilots: Guides are done. Big wings are coordinated. There is are constructive discussions about different topics. Newbies are almost everywhere welcome. I take me again as an example: my skills improved by a huge amount since I started playing because on teamspeak I always got help.

 

So my question is: What causes a stall in advancement if so much know-how is represented on the LW side?

 

Again: like many others I'm trying to figure out to do a good service next time I log in.

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emuyen... objectives need be destroyed.

 

Last nigh we atack a complete tank column.... only 1 tank survive.... on next hour the column was beside our base ( we cant take off from this base ) , column was resupply ( not was entire again but recover 3 AAA ans some tanks ) . we need atack again for completly destroy.

 

U need destroy completly your objectives. 

 

System works ok.

 

I think you have to destroy all tanks to stop the column advance. Once just a single tank survive, the column advance (though slow down) and it's supplied on next mission from its own supply trucks and supply columns.

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I'm fairly new on this fantastic server. First let me thank the server-admins for their fantastic work.

I'm still on the learning curve regarding rules and tactics on this great server.

 

One point which is not fully understood from me is how plane replenishment really works.

Yesterday I've shredded all two of my beloved Bf110-E2.

To recover from that situation I was flying supply to damaged airfields with the Ju52.

In my statistics I can see that I have been credited with four sucessful  missions.

The info column shows "+1CM" for each of this sorties.

My hope was that after three missions one of the Bf110 would be replenished but the counter is still locked to zero.

Could please somebody explain what I'm missing or what went wrong on my side to get back that Bf110?

 

Thank you in advance!

 

/Axel

 

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I'm fairly new on this fantastic server. First let me thank the server-admins for their fantastic work.

I'm still on the learning curve regarding rules and tactics on this great server.

 

One point which is not fully understood from me is how plane replenishment really works.

Yesterday I've shredded all two of my beloved Bf110-E2.

To recover from that situation I was flying supply to damaged airfields with the Ju52.

In my statistics I can see that I have been credited with four sucessful  missions.

The info column shows "+1CM" for each of this sorties.

My hope was that after three missions one of the Bf110 would be replenished but the counter is still locked to zero.

Could please somebody explain what I'm missing or what went wrong on my side to get back that Bf110?

 

Thank you in advance!

 

/Axel

 

Hi Axel

 

There is a replenishment order I think.

 

After your 3 Missions you got replenished +1 HE111 (+1CM +He 111 H-6)

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot.php?name=I./ZG15_Axel

 

So you would need to do 2 more missions to get your beloved 110 back.

 

Btw. did you know that long bombing missions credit you multiple missions?

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot.php?name=Emuyen

 

Look at my 13.02.2017 18:45 mission. After my semi-victorious bombing raid on train station I got 3 combat missions at once. (I first lost orientation over the thick clouds and then had dificulties level-bombing due to low altitude). Try to hit strategic points instead of replenishing only. Alternatively grab a E7 and do a short and fast Jabo Mission on a defense. It is still more valuable.

 

If you want we can team up next time!

Edited by Emuyen

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I'm fairly new on this fantastic server. First let me thank the server-admins for their fantastic work.

I'm still on the learning curve regarding rules and tactics on this great server.

 

One point which is not fully understood from me is how plane replenishment really works.

Yesterday I've shredded all two of my beloved Bf110-E2.

To recover from that situation I was flying supply to damaged airfields with the Ju52.

In my statistics I can see that I have been credited with four sucessful  missions.

The info column shows "+1CM" for each of this sorties.

My hope was that after three missions one of the Bf110 would be replenished but the counter is still locked to zero.

Could please somebody explain what I'm missing or what went wrong on my side to get back that Bf110?

 

Thank you in advance!

 

/Axel

Go to your profile page

http://taw.stg2.de/login.php?page=pilot

 

And make sure that only that the Preferred planes

Fighters

 

 

is checked. And not bomber.

 

The 110 is classified as fighter ( so is the ju87 i think. ) for some reason. 

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Hi Axel

 

There is a replenishment order I think.

 

After your 3 Missions you got replenished +1 HE111 (+1CM +He 111 H-6[/size])

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot.php?name=I./ZG15_Axel

 

So you would need to do 2 more missions to get your beloved 110 back.

 

Btw. did you know that long bombing missions credit you multiple missions?

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot.php?name=Emuyen

 

Look at my 13.02.2017 18:45 mission. After my semi-victorious bombing raid on train station I got 3 combat missions at once. (I first lost orientation over the thick clouds and then had dificulties level-bombing due to low altitude). Try to hit strategic points instead of replenishing only. Alternatively grab a E7 and do a short and fast Jabo Mission on a defense. It is still more valuable.

 

If you want we can team up next time!

When you get three combat missions in one flight, how can that be less effectiv than a fighter sortie that will not gove you as many combat missions?

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Yesterday we switched to red and we had a blast. Just my expieriences from yesterday:

1. Sortie:
Takeoff from a front airfield with 2 i16s. Entcountered withing minutes a big formation of 110s and 109s all heading to a defensive pos.
One of the escorts had the landing gear extended, the other was oblivious. Sadly we couldn't reach the 110s in time.

2. Sortie
a lone Stuka attacks the full defended airfield, is not wrecked by the aa and I hunt it down and he had to ditch. (no official kill for me to my surprise)

3.
Lone 109 on the deck, doesnt move, doesnt evade. Shot down and pilot killed.
Later diving onto a flight of 4 109s. After a while chasing them, we realize we cant catch them. Even in cruise they were at that alt too fast. So we split S and rtb. They never saw us.

4.
We take off in 2 i16s and 2 il2s in a destroyer role.
After waiting at our targets for the super big german attack we get bored and we go over to a offensive mission plan and attack a supply column.
We get completely reckt. One Il2s gets back to base rest is shot down, I had to bail out. we got surprised by a handful of 109s and one 110.

But in the first 3 sorties... damn the LW was blind and looked hapless. The defenses we defended were rarely attacked surprisingly.
They attacked tanks and supply colums first. Which is funny as that is stopping an offensive of the enemy and is not a offensive action against the enemy.
The germans are basically defending while they should be able to attack easily.
 

Edited by TheRedSheriff
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When you get three combat missions in one flight, how can that be less effectiv than a fighter sortie that will not gove you as many combat missions?

 

Jordan sorry. I meant it is usually more valuable THAN flying just supply missions. Unless the airfield is very badly damaged. Or what do you mean? I'm don't think I understand your question correctly.

 

Yesterday we switched to red and we had a blast. Just my expieriences from yesterday:

 

1. Sortie:

Takeoff from a front airfield with 2 i16s. Entcountered withing minutes a big formation of 110s and 109s all heading to a defensive pos.

One of the escorts had the landing gear extended, the other was oblivious. Sadly we couldn't reach the 110s in time.

 

2. Sortie

a lone Stuka attacks the full defended airfield, is not wrecked by the aa and I hunt it down and he had to ditch. (no official kill for me to my surprise)

 

3.

Lone 109 on the deck, doesnt move, doesnt evade. Shot down and pilot killed.

Later diving onto a flight of 4 109s. After a while chasing them, we realize we cant catch them. Even in cruise they were at that alt too fast. So we split S and rtb. They never saw us.

 

4.

We take off in 2 i16s and 2 il2s in a destroyer role.

After waiting at our targets for the super big german attack we get bored and we go over to a offensive mission plan and attack a supply column.

We get completely reckt. One Il2s gets back to base rest is shot down, I had to bail out. we got surprised by a handful of 109s and one 110.

 

But in the first 3 sorties... damn the LW was blind and looked hapless. The defenses we defended were rarely attacked surprisingly.

They attacked tanks and supply colums first. Which is funny as that is stopping an offensive of the enemy and is not a offensive action against the enemy.

The germans are basically defending while they should be able to attack easily.

 

 

That explains some of my questions.

Edited by Emuyen

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...

The defenses we defended were rarely attacked surprisingly.

They attacked tanks and supply colums first. Which is funny as that is stopping an offensive of the enemy and is not a offensive action against the enemy.

The germans are basically defending while they should be able to attack easily.

 

 

This is true to some degree at least. I agree that I've seen lots of LW planes over red tank columns and these are often damaged destroyed. But I was attacking defense positions for two or three times yet and they looked virtually undamaged. On the other hand during all missions I've flown so far, the red tank column was very close to our town/airfields, therefore attacks against were reasonable solutions.

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Yesterday we switched to red and we had a blast. Just my expieriences from yesterday:

 

1. Sortie:

Takeoff from a front airfield with 2 i16s. Entcountered withing minutes a big formation of 110s and 109s all heading to a defensive pos.

One of the escorts had the landing gear extended, the other was oblivious. Sadly we couldn't reach the 110s in time.

 

2. Sortie

a lone Stuka attacks the full defended airfield, is not wrecked by the aa and I hunt it down and he had to ditch. (no official kill for me to my surprise)

 

3.

Lone 109 on the deck, doesnt move, doesnt evade. Shot down and pilot killed.

Later diving onto a flight of 4 109s. After a while chasing them, we realize we cant catch them. Even in cruise they were at that alt too fast. So we split S and rtb. They never saw us.

 

4.

We take off in 2 i16s and 2 il2s in a destroyer role.

After waiting at our targets for the super big german attack we get bored and we go over to a offensive mission plan and attack a supply column.

We get completely reckt. One Il2s gets back to base rest is shot down, I had to bail out. we got surprised by a handful of 109s and one 110.

 

But in the first 3 sorties... damn the LW was blind and looked hapless. The defenses we defended were rarely attacked surprisingly.

They attacked tanks and supply colums first. Which is funny as that is stopping an offensive of the enemy and is not a offensive action against the enemy.

The germans are basically defending while they should be able to attack easily.

 

 

Sorry you lost me! "They attacked tanks and supply colums first. Which is funny as that is stopping an offensive of the enemy and is not a offensive action against the enemy"  Therefore, from you write up it would appear that you are just on the defensive as your stats do not reflect much in the way of ground offensive action, or is it defensive offensive action as per your quote "The defenses we defended were rarely attacked surprisingly", or were you being offensive by being defensive and just camping objectives waiting for easy prey as you believe that "The germans are basically defending while they should be able to attack easily."  Therefore, Is that not what are are doing, also?

 

I for one would like to see the other sides objectives removed from the map, thus the map would only show what your side has to attack and in an order of priority as to focus the attack, rather than a free for all. This would stop the other side from knowing what you had to attack and defend and vise-versa.  Perhaps this way we would see more players trying to attack ground objectives, rather than just hanging around in their own territory waiting for the other side to show up, as happens in another server!  Anyway, my recent experience is that most players want to fly fighters, so I guess this campaign will be won on aircraft or pilot loses, which is a shame as the TAW guys appear to have taken so much time and effort to bring lots of other objectives etc to the game.  However, only time will tell.

 

Regards

 

Regards

Edited by Haza

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Haza, When one side has big numerical advantage he can and should focus on attacking. You can let your ground defense position deal with the tank column. And focus your attacks on the enemy defensive position.

And yes. The side that is at disadvantage should focus on defending his defence positions. When you are at disadvantage you focus on surviving.

 

As thing look now this map will be won on number off tanks destroyed.

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Its easy..

 

Take off

Spot enemy first

(I am in advantageous position I attack them)

(I am not in Advantageous Position i Disco or emergency land, Then take off again head back to same area with more advantage now kill that person)

 

1 of the common basic exploits.

Don't you lose the plane you disco in?

 

exactly my point. Yesterday evening I had the feeling that LW was bombing the hell out of VVS. And we didn't move the frontline significantly. 

Today I wake up, check the frontline drinking my coffee and ... starits is red. I just don't get it. :)

 

Seriously, someone please explain to me what I'm missing. We bombed the defenses, we bombed the tanks. We bombed the supply targets (train stations etc.)

 

This ain't a rant. I just want  to understand. Since the campaign started I almost always flew in a wing and we did either bombing defenses, tanks or CAP over important targets. I refuse to accept that this has no effect on the advancement of the LW.

 

Fly safe

Emu

Well, you didn't mention destroying enemy defenses.

 

If you destroy everything but don't destroy the enemy's defenses, the line won't move because they will still stop your advancing tanks.

 

The biggest bang for buck when it comes to moving the lines: Protect friendly tanks and destroy enemy defensive positions(AT guns and howitzers)

 

All other targets only serve to slow tanks or lower their numbers.

 

This is the way I understand it at least

But in the first 3 sorties... damn the LW was blind and looked hapless. The defenses we defended were rarely attacked surprisingly.

They attacked tanks and supply colums first. Which is funny as that is stopping an offensive of the enemy and is not a offensive action against the enemy.

The germans are basically defending while they should be able to attack easily.

 

Sherrif here explains what I'm trying to say pretty well

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Don't you lose the plane you disco in?

 

Well, you didn't mention destroying enemy defenses.

 

If you destroy everything but don't destroy the enemy's defenses, the line won't move because they will still stop your advancing tanks.

 

The biggest bang for buck when it comes to moving the lines: Protect friendly tanks and destroy enemy defensive positions(AT guns and howitzers)

 

All other targets only serve to slow tanks or lower their numbers.

 

 

Scojo what is unclear to me is if the icon has to disappear on the map. 

 

Example:

 

 

 

Defense line consist of three positions around the city. The main strength of defense are anti-tanks artillery and tanks. Then dugouts and armored vehicles like Sd.Kfz. 251 and BM13 at the front line. You should destroy as many as possible of those objects.

 

 

and 

 

 

 

Train stations. If train on the station is destroyed then nearby city will not be supplied from it. Destroy as many wagons as possible.

 

- So if we destroy the train completely but fail to destroy the hangars then the city gets resupplied or not?

 

- If we destroy the guns but not the bunkers does it count as destroyed or not?

 

Yesterday I destroyed the train wagons but didn't touch the hangars. Is that enough?

Edited by Emuyen

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I don't know about anything other than defenses/tanks, but I remember hearing several people say that tank and defensive gun numbers are taken into account at map end to determine a winner. If attacking tanks have a significant number advantage, the line moves.

 

I don't know what numbers count as significant and to be 100% sure on what I said, an admin would have to confirm.

 

I guess we could test it but that would be a long and difficult process lol

Edited by 71st_AH_Scojo

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