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Tactical Air War

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1 hour ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

@=LG=Kathon hi there; a question. Blue side had ran out of tanks for a couple of map rolls but still victory was not conceeded to VVS; now all of a sudden LW has more tanks showing there. How is this possible? What am i missing?

 

Thanks in advance.


Tanks are not a win condition anymore, running out of tanks means no more tank convoys are spawned, essentially negating the ability to gain terrain. The increase in resources must have been because of a warehouse spawning in one of the missions without being destroyed, both teams received increased resources.

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8 minutes ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:


Tanks are not a win condition anymore, running out of tanks means no more tank convoys are spawned, essentially negating the ability to gain terrain. The increase in resources must have been because of a warehouse spawning in one of the missions without being destroyed, both teams received increased resources.


Agree. Then why if tanks do not decide win conditions, map #3 ended in a draw cause according to Kathon "both sides exceeded tank supplies". If tanks don't decide conditions, in map #3 then it should have continued to till the victory is decided by atrition to either side.

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One small issue found: U-2 seems to be no longer transport plane. However, it is still shown in pilot's stats in transport section.

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Welcome to another edition of Luftwaffe "i do all i can to win" COOP edition

LQv0dmx.jpg

 

Ten minutes into map and already 13-0...actually 14-0 at this moment. I'l be happy shooting at their chutes if needed, and trolling this kind of guys. No respect.

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Hi all,

Can you guys post the win conditions for us and tell us what happens when limits are met?  I'm sure they're posted in an obvious place, but the group I fly with nearly every evening doesn't have them and can't find the update.  We are wondering if the other stats still matter; Aircraft available, pilots available etc.  We were talking a few days ago about trucks hitting the limit but still seeing truck convoys spawning etc.

Love flying TAW! But it would be nice to refresh our minds on the updated mechanics (asking this realizing you all do this for free in your spare time and we really appreciate the campaign.  Nothing else comes close to replicating the teamwork we get to experience on your server.)

 

Thanks

 

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Yes, half the people what you usually are every night. Typical, comparing something that happens isolated to what we have every night. 

Anyway, it won't change, so i'll just accept it, while shoot chutes and troll you in chat.

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Winning conditions are, if I recall correctly (and it’s stated near the top of the manual)

 

- loss of the max aircraft

- loss of the max pilots 

- loss of all airfields (including if you can’t spawn in any of the remaining ones, such as if tanks threaten)

 

Actually, here’s from the manual:

 

The TAW campaign consists of eight maps. The side (Axis or Allied) which wins more maps win the campaign. There are three ways to win a map:

· enemy loses all its cities

· enemy has no open airfields

· enemy exceeds aircraft or pilots limit

Edited by AKA_Relent

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well, we can continue to speculate, or wait for a consolidated answer from an admin 😜

i would "assume" that a side out of tanks can only reach a draw at best (either by killing all enemy tanks as well or draining away all enemy planes) , as they cannot conquer the enemy af's anymore...

so on map#3 once both sides were out of tanks the map automatically ended as a draw...

i was wondering by then, if blue actually stole themselves a certain victory by killing our tanks instead of draining our (red) aircraft, but i figure that is bs and also draining our planes would have caused a draw...

anyway, again all just speculations:

please admins enlighten us, unworthy ones! 😉

- both sides out of tanks = draw

- both sides out of planes = draw

- one side out of tanks, other side out of planes = ???

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On 12/19/2019 at 11:23 PM, ITAF_Maven65 said:

Two destroyed objects in the mission log, and zero ground kill in the summary stats string? How can it be possible?

 

stat.jpg

This is game bug. There are events in the log files that something was destroyed but there is no info about what it was. Also coordination of those unknown objects are bizarre because there aren't any object on the map with that coordination.  

 

 

On 12/21/2019 at 8:26 AM, 72AG_Obi said:

Interesting observation for TAW admins.

I noticed in my recent sorties the damage exceeded 100% yet the red plane continued flying.

In one case it flew for 5mins after such damage and ditched getting another 60%, in another one Pe was even able to land with damage more than 100%.

Is it a new feature of red aircraft or just a bug in how the server registers and evaluates hits?

Could you post links to those sorties. I'm not able to manually check sortie after sortie. 

 

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7 hours ago, Paulshow2 said:

well, we can continue to speculate...

 

- both sides out of tanks = draw

- both sides out of planes = draw

- one side out of tanks, other side out of planes = ???

Not speculating, from the manual (regarding planes and pilots).
 

Not very likely for both sides to run out of planes or pilots at the same time for a draw (it would need to happen during the same mission, since it’s a winning condition.

 

If one side loses all of its planes or pilots, the tanks don’t matter, that side would lost the map.

 

The map (#3) that was a draw was because both sides ran out of tanks before any other winning condition arose (and before any replenishment depot spawned on either side to increase the max limits apparently).  In the current map, it kept going after the Germans ran out of tanks because a winning condition had not been met.  This allowed for a replenishment depot to pop up (on both sides as it were), which upped the maximum numbers and kept the offensives going.

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

Welcome to another edition of Luftwaffe "i do all i can to win" COOP edition

LQv0dmx.jpg

 

Ten minutes into map and already 13-0...actually 14-0 at this moment. I'l be happy shooting at their chutes if needed, and trolling this kind of guys. No respect.

Aw... did you photoshop this? I seem to remember at least three Russians on last night, you included... We have scheduled flight nights and times, and if no one shows up, it's not our fault. We are a bomber group, and only had one fighter for cover, which managed to shoot you and another guy down. Are you still sore about that? Not sure what your beef is, other than you ARE a chute shooter I hear, but you actually have to shoot someone down before you can open up on his chute? Just sayin'...

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Here is the current screen shot.........16-2 right now....real fun

 

Untitled.jpg

Edited by No.322_Cathaoir
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Also wondering why the long lines of communications for blue and with their low production numbers, how does the supply center get its re-supply so fast???

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13 minutes ago, =/Hospiz/=Rosomak67 said:

Maybe all red people sent to Siberia

 

 

They're just falling back to the Volga, to form a new more stable defensive line, forcing the Axis to overextend. Afterwards we all know what happens.

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@=LG=Kathon

With regards to plane set, i can't help but notice that the BF 110 is a +1 aircraft throughout the campaign after map 3. The VVS does not have a twin engine fast aircraft as a +1 aircraft for ground attack. Can someone explain the logic of this?

 

This completely removes any point in including the ju 87 as an attack aircraft for the LW and leaves the LW stacked in both the air to air and the air to ground roles. Through a perspective of historical accuracy, the ju 87 was the most used ground attack aircraft in moscow and stalingrad campaigns and yet I have only encountered one stuka during the  whole  campaign. 

 

Not only does the LW enjoy total fighter aerial superiority after map 1 which is historically accurate and Im fine with,  but LW also  enjoys better air - ground options. The campaign seems stacked IMO and not even asymetrical.

 

Why not remove the +1 for 110s?

 

 

Edited by ACG_Vietkong

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1 hour ago, SCG_Schneemann said:

Aw... did you photoshop this? I seem to remember at least three Russians on last night, you included... We have scheduled flight nights and times, and if no one shows up, it's not our fault. We are a bomber group, and only had one fighter for cover, which managed to shoot you and another guy down. Are you still sore about that? Not sure what your beef is, other than you ARE a chute shooter I hear, but you actually have to shoot someone down before you can open up on his chute? Just sayin'...


Are you always this "precise" in your observations? You are full of b...err...inaccurate comments 😁

 

. When i joined the mission (and took the screenie) it was only 13-0...and at the end of it and through the whole 2hrs of mission it was 14-3. 

. No fighter escort shot me down. I was shot down trying to defend a position and i was sorrounded by 3 FW's (none from your squad) and got KIA at the first shot=> https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=74385&name=666GIAP_Chimango  

. I don't shoot chutes until now, and only i do it when the other side has been stacking the server, you call it "chute killing", i call it justice.


. Sore about being shot down? This TAW at current #5 map i've been killed already 3x times more than any other whole TAW edition...so any greenhorn in a 109 or FW190 can shoot me down now after last patch, with uber performing MG151/20, G limits nerfing VVS best capability, and horrible visuals that degraged my SA 50%. 

. You are a bomber group? Then what were you doing in a 109F4 some nights ago, when while stacking the server, your 4 fightersformation got jumped by a single Lagg-3 from a friend of mine who killed you? https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=64271&name=ECV56_Moro

. And last but not least a beautiful quote: "but you actually have to shoot someone down before you can open up on his chute? Just sayin'. Thank you, you give me the chance to boost my ego replying to this. You seem to imply that i can't shoot shit...then me being the top VVS fighter scorer must be pure magic 😂 https://taw.stg2.de/stats.php?page=0&search_name=&col_name=AK&sort=DESC

 


Bottom line, i remember you Schneemann and other guys from your squad coming to forums hitting your heads against the wall with disgust and horror when viruses like xj*** would do anything to win the competition at all costs, things that were not forbidden but were disrespectful and damaging for the campaign...well, by seeing the server is all day 2:1 and all nights 3:1 to 5:1 and when you see that current mission already has a 15:3 pilots and still you decide to join the server to cause even more disparity and damage, i tell you, you are not very different from that guy.

Keep doing it, it seems you all like COOP missions and still feel good  having good results when there is almost no opposition; yep keep it up...and i will keep shooting at your chutes and having fun with you in chat.

 

 

 

Edited by 666GIAP_Chimango
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Blue will soon be congratulated on the second victory on the map in this campaign.
But I think that they have not so many reasons for joy. This victory goes to them with great difficulty and only thanks to a significant numerical superiority.
It would be interesting to look at the results if the forces of red and blue were at least equal)

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2 hours ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:


Are you always this "precise" in your observations? You are full of b...err...inaccurate comments 😁


. I don't shoot chutes until now, and only i do it when the other side has been stacking the server, you call it "chute killing", i call it justice.

 

. And last but not least a beautiful quote: "but you actually have to shoot someone down before you can open up on his chute? Just sayin'. Thank you, you give me the chance to boost my ego replying to this. You seem to imply that i can't shoot shit...then me being the top VVS fighter scorer must be pure magic 😂 https://taw.stg2.de/stats.php?page=0&search_name=&col_name=AK&sort=DESC

 

Keep doing it, it seems you all like COOP missions and still feel good  having good results when there is almost no opposition; yep keep it up...and i will keep shooting at your chutes and having fun with you in chat.

 

What I noticed when one side had much less pilots, they kept leaving the server probably thinking it's useless to keep up the fight in such unfair balance. I saw the same in both sides. I remember when there 10 reds vs 4 blues, 5mins later when 3 of blues ended their sortie, they just left the server so I left the only one sitting in the server. So if there is 15v5, soon you would find out 0 players instead of 5. Then of course you can make a screenshot of the server players and show your theatrical anger for such an unfair and unbalanced server. 

Chimango, in this campaign you have never flown for the blue side when reds had an advantage in numbers. So why are you crying about blue pilots not willing to switch the side when the numbers are in their favor?!

 

I remember when blues had an advantage, I switched the side to play for reds. Kravixon joked that I was a spy). But I switched because I am not a squad member and free to do whatever I want. Then map ended and the rest of reds decided not to play at all for whatever reason they had so I ended up to fight against 10 people when new map started. And when I tried,  I got shot down and ditched fighting against 4 pilots attacking our defense. Got another comment from Raven blaming me for stupidity to fight against superior number of blue pilots (probably I should have left the server as others and yell about such a bad server balance instead of fighting) and another hero Castell killed my pilot while sitting on the ground waiting for 15sec delay to escape.... How about this story Chimango, should I feel sorry for myself?!)))

 

And about chute killing... good to know you are part of that group of people. We need to know our heroes. Seems when you are angry/unhappy/unsatisfied, your character shows your true nature!

People who deserve to be respected are those whose principles don't change based on the circumstances or mood.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Olbi

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29 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

Blue will soon be congratulated on the second victory on the map in this campaign.


Oh no, this time they won’t. 
 

Ps. Olbi, you “bright” thing, where did i ever mention to switch sides? Your text reading is even worse than your flying.

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1 минуту назад, 666GIAP_Chimango сказал:


Oh no, this time they won’t. 
 

Ps. Olbi, you “bright” thing, where did i ever mention to switch sides? Your text reading is even worse than your flying.

So what do you suggest? Not to fly when you see your team has numeric advantage?

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For the sake of balance/gameplay, one solution would be to stop tracking the campaign progress when there are less than N players on one side, or when there is a player gap larger than N players between the two teams. It's a basic solution, but still better than blaming it on personal preference for a side and/or neutering said side.

 

And/or award bonuses to pilots who choose to fight even when facing adversity (e.g against greater enemy numbers). Something that motivates the pilots to fight, either individual bonuses, or team bonuses, or both.

Edited by Raven109
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46 minutes ago, Raven109 said:

For the sake of balance/gameplay, one solution would be to stop tracking the campaign progress when there are less than N players on one side, or when there is a player gap larger than N players between the two teams. It's a basic solution, but still better than blaming it on personal preference for a side and/or neutering said side.

 

Yes, the quorum solution, I have seen it implemented in one or two of the old 1946 campaign servers. There's some questions about what to do when there's quorum at take-off but not once you're over the target: should kills still count? But those are minor issues and I liked it overall as a solution to unbalanced numbers.

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1 hour ago, Raven109 said:

For the sake of balance/gameplay, one solution would be to stop tracking the campaign progress when there are less than N players on one side, or when there is a player gap larger than N players between the two teams. It's a basic solution, but still better than blaming it on personal preference for a side and/or neutering said side.

 

TAW concept is not new and has been taken from Air Domination War (ADW) back in il2 1946. What you recommend is a very good idea and was applied during ADW, you needed quorums of at least X players by side;  but that system had several issues based on people speculation:

 

. People would speculate when to give or when not to give quorum; that means to give the minimum ammount of players for mission to start tracking the progress of the actions.
. People would abandon the server if they saw the other side had better pilots or better chances to fulfill their tasks, leaving the other side with less impact of their actions in the map.
 

1 hour ago, Raven109 said:

And/or award bonuses to pilots who choose to fight even when facing adversity (e.g against greater enemy numbers). Something that motivates the pilots to fight, either individual bonuses, or team bonuses, or both.

 

Not really sure about this, unless it's based on plane performance as well. I mean, let's suppose there is a 6v2 scenario where 6 people has Yak1, MiG3 and a couple of il2s working a target. Ok, i'm in the side with only 2 pilots but we have FW's...yeah, give me a FW190 and a teammate and the 2 of us can wipe out the full 6 player formation (or most of it) and be untouched. Should we even get more bonuses? No way. The disparity in planes on the Eastern Front has become more obvious after last patch, so even when it's a good idea, seems very difficult to apply it fairly.

 

 

...

Edited by 666GIAP_Chimango

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when reds recognize that they are start to loosing they stop flying. this is why blues have numerical advantage and win. just look at the new map. i thought it is because of holidays but it seems to do nothing with it

Edited by =LG=Coldman
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1 hour ago, WokeUpDead said:

 

Yes, the quorum solution, I have seen it implemented in one or two of the old 1946 campaign servers. There's some questions about what to do when there's quorum at take-off but not once you're over the target: should kills still count? But those are minor issues and I liked it overall as a solution to unbalanced numbers.

 

Yes, there are some ways to deal with losing quorum while on route. One would be to apply a hysteresis to the quorum limit (either time or player number based). Another would be to allow planes that took off during the quorum state, to finish as if there still is quorum, while planes that are taking off after loss of quorum would not progress the campaign anymore. 

 

43 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

 

TAW concept is not new and has been taken from Air Domination War (ADW) back in il2 1946. What you recommend is a very good idea and was applied during ADW, you needed quorums of at least X players by side;  but that system

 had several issues based on people speculation:

 

. People would speculate when to give or when not to give quorum; that means to give the minimum ammount of players for mission to start tracking the progress of the actions.
. People would abandon the server if they saw the other side had better pilots or better chances to fulfill their tasks, leaving the other side with less impact of their actions in the map.
 

 

Not really sure about this, unless it's based on plane performance as well. I mean, let's suppose there is a 6v2 scenario where 6 people has Yak1, MiG3 and a couple of il2s working a target. Ok, i'm in the side with only 2 pilots but we have FW's...yeah, give me a FW190 and a teammate and the 2 of us can wipe out the full 6 player formation (or most of it) and be untouched. Should we even get more bonuses? No way. The disparity in planes on the Eastern Front has become more obvious after last patch, so even when it's a good idea, seems very difficult to apply it fairly.

 

 

Yes, well the quorum limit could be handled with a hysteresis, not just a single hard limit. Also, the server could try and track the rate at which people are leaving the server, if the side which people are leaving from is losing, and so on, and decide what to do with the campaign based on this. 

 

Bonuses could be awarded based on individual experience and/or total team experience. 

 

We'll probably end up using machine learning to manage the campaign.

 

P.S.: Those are just generic ideas, to get people started, I didn't flesh out the whole system.

Edited by Raven109

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17 minutes ago, =LG=Coldman said:

when reds recognize that they are start to loosing they stop flying. this is why blues have numerical advantage and win. just look at the new map. i thought it is because of holidays but it seems to do nothing with it

 

Coming from a member of the squad hosting the campaign, such a huge simplification and narrow view of the whole picture doesn't even deserve a reply.

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34 minutes ago, =LG=Coldman said:

when reds recognize that they are start to loosing they stop flying. this is why blues have numerical advantage and win. just look at the new map. i thought it is because of holidays but it seems to do nothing with it

 

Well, then the questions should be, from my POV : "Why do the Reds start losing? When they start losing, why is there no incentive to keep them in the fight?"

 

36 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

but that system had several issues based on people speculation:

 

Given enough time, any stable (predictable) software system will end up being speculated upon by people. Especially when there's any kind of competition involved.

 

One limitation to any system trying to manage the campaign, is that it cannot become overly intrusive, and shouldn't break immersion too much, while still maintaining the campaign competitive/interesting.

Edited by Raven109
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29 minutes ago, =LG=Coldman said:

when reds recognize that they are start to loosing they stop flying. this is why blues have numerical advantage and win. just look at the new map. i thought it is because of holidays but it seems to do nothing with it


yes of course, the poor germans are always the best players and the most heroics for their willing to fly superior planes  ))))

Edited by =GEMINI=Hawkmoon98
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16 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

 

Coming from a member of the squad hosting the campaign, such a huge simplification and narrow view of the whole picture doesn't even deserve a reply.

and yet you comment :P

 

from my piont of view this campaing is super well balanced. after 5 maps there is draw. Reds won 2 first maps with the most disadvantage in fighters then lucky draw from blue side and 2 wins of the blue side i would say second was a lucky win. when reds was holding last map it was super cool than something happend to attendance of red pilots and they started to loose and circle of death started they start whine and stop flying in the same time...it is not a simplification it is just simple as it is

 

and im not a Dev. im just in squadron with dev in it...so this is my opinion not the TAW dev team

Edited by =LG=Coldman
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Hmm, what happened with map #5?  I hadn’t noticed the plane/pilot attrition numbers of late, but didn’t think either side was that low.  Neither side was out of usable airfields - just curious.

 

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32 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

 

Coming from a member of the squad hosting the campaign, such a huge simplification and narrow view of the whole picture doesn't even deserve a reply.

image.png

 

 

And still you bothered to reply... as you do every time. You've even posted a "proof", it's a pity it is worth nothing - it's the end of a mission, players tend to quit sever if there's not much time to fly again. It's funny, you are very biased when interpreting facts, choosing only those that suit your point of view and completely ignoring and negating the rest. Whining on the forum became your specialty, you are really proficient in that activity.

Now look at your very own signature. Hypocrite - that is correct word for someone like you. Oh, I've recently heard from my squadmates, you disconnected when you were chased. So you are also a coward. Hypocrite and coward - you have lost any respect I had for you, as I have respect for other human beings, but you are no longer a human being for me, and I will not treat you as one, for you are a creature that insults human race by pretending to be called human  You are an abomination called Chimango.

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41 minutes ago, =/Hospiz/=MetalHead said:

~insane ravings~

That's deranged. Get well soon!

Edited by 7.GShAP/Kamm
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At the rate at which people are posting screenshots showing player numbers / team, I think the TAW page could contain a graph tracking those numbers. That could help in identifying whether there really is a problem with player numbers.

Edited by Raven109

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