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Tactical Air War

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On 12/19/2019 at 8:18 AM, Cpt_Siddy said:

VVS team having life advantage, say 4 or 5 life instead of 3?

Active players on VVS side burn trough the lifes quite fast even when we are outnumbered thanks to this new pilot modelling. 

 

I would be more motivated to tactical-air-warring if there was a way to earn extra lives (up to 5).   Perhaps something like a .01 for air and ground kills and .02 gain for completed combat missions.  That way you could still  "20 hour wait" die but, if you played it smart you could juggle the life counter to stay above 0.

Edited by Mobile_BBQ

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@1./JG42flesch

 

Of course your reaction will be negative. I wouldn't expect any less from a cry baby like you.

 

Anyways, my message is not aimed at individuals with half a brain like you but those that can engage in a constructive conversation to solve the issue and make the campaign better to all.

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I'm not really all that in favor of giving one team a 'handicap' advantage over the other per se, but there has to be a way to inspire more participation amongst VVS players.  The lives system as it currently is really sucks the motivation right out of it for me.  I wouldn't care if it was tweaked equally for both sides.  If it made enough sense, VVS participation might go up enough that Axis horde rushes might balance out without any need to adjust actual battle results.

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Riksen, for me is good idea....

 

But i think this system cant  be used .... or maybe from devs have some good ideas.... but applying your system....

 

for example... for destroy a column if player ratio is 1;3  ... same column need be destroyed 3 times  ¿spawn 3 times? or u destroy once all and at the end counts like only be destroyed 1/3 of it ? mmmm not easy ...... and at the end.... ratio playes is variable along the mission.... not easy to implement the ratio players to objective destroy... maybe on supplys or arifields is posible... but for tanks, AT or columns i dont see.

 

:)

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@Mobile_BBQ

 

S! sir. What does not make sense to you with the life system? I think it is an important feature to help the outnumbered side if they managed to get a kill. It is much easier to get an aerial victory when you team is staked against the other hence it will give less of a penalty to the pilot being killed in the outnumbered team. I think it is pretty fair and gives a small incentive for the guys in outnumbered team to stay in the server and fight on. Is this the part that you consider confusing?

6 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Tumu said:

Riksen, for me is good idea....

 

But i think this system cant  be used .... or maybe from devs have some good ideas.... but applying your system....

 

for example... for destroy a column if player ratio is 1;3  ... same column need be destroyed 3 times  ¿spawn 3 times? or u destroy once all and at the end counts like only be destroyed 1/3 of it ? mmmm not easy ...... and at the end.... ratio playes is variable along the mission.... not easy to implement the ratio players to objective destroy... maybe on supplys or arifields is posible... but for tanks, AT or columns i dont see.

 

:)

 

You are right. The ratio is variable during the mission but for this system to work we would have to use the total player count at the end of the mission and not a single point during the mission. So if the mission started with 30 LW x 10 VVS but later became 40 VVS x 20 LW then the final count of players would be balanced and therefore not apply any offsets to the result. Only the final count would mater. Also, in order to properly do so, the system could establish a minimum count or ratio to kick in. For example if the final  player count difference is not higher than 10, then the system would not kick in and this would account for the fact that it will always be some difference in number of players and small difference should be expected.

 

Thank you for the input BTW.

Edited by Riksen

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4 hours ago, Raven109 said:

Again, this is a game,  just like WT is (as much as you don't want it to be, it still is). 

If you really want to play the game of applying real life morals to it, then tell me how you feel about strafing defenseless trucks, locomotives (on the ground mind you), arty positions, etc. Or is this ok? Do you sleep at night?

"Strafing non-real pixel pilot on the ground, not ok -> strafing other non-real pixel troops on the ground, ok" How does that work?

"There is no gain shooting a down pilot." There is no loss either, it's a game.

I'm not gonna talk about honoring real life people through generic pilot skins in a game.

Do not mix reality with games, they are very far apart, that's my point. 

 

No one is mixing reality with anything. Your analogy fails because this is a virtual war and what you describe is part of an actual war. Shooting down pilots was not part of the actual war. As I said, among pilots there was a code. This is not like WT. WT is for gamers looking to feed their little egos. This is a combat flight simulators. it simulates flight and reenact WWII combat. When you act outside of what was done, then you are just a gamer. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Pict said:

 

You don't have an option, and as far as the good guys / bad guys thing is concerned, I am serious, it's laughable and I'm not alone in thinking that.

 

 

Pre-empting such debate I made a poll some time time back in an effort to gauge which way people would go after BoBP was released, so I have been following this for quite a while and I don't think it's as clear cut as some seem to believe.

 

I was referring to this specific discussion. I am sure the topic is something discussed more than once. 

 

1 hour ago, RFG_Hisl said:

Sorry, I can hardly keep myself from laughing.
Chutekilling and groundkilling are the order of the day with the friendly support of the Devs.
The II./JG51 cited by Olbi has a large part in this, but it is not the only JG with this behavior.

 

I have no idea why you limping me in with II./JG51. I am not a part of that group whatsoever, nor are all JG members part of a hierarchical structure. I am not any more able to "correct" their behavior anymore than I can correct yours any other pilot on the server. If any pilot is shooting down pilots they dishonor themselves by not honoring the pilots that fought (and some cases) died in World War II. 

 

BTW, I belong to 6 Luftflotte (which has the following Gruppen: I./TG3, II./KG55, III./SG77, and IV./JG51.) You will not have any member of ^ Luftflotte bring dishonor to men and women who fought in WW2. 

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3 minutes ago, Riksen said:

@Mobile_BBQ

 

S! sir. What does not make sense to you with the life system? I think it is an important feature to help the outnumbered side if they managed to get a kill. It is much easier to get an aerial victory when you team is staked against the other hence it will give less of a penalty to the pilot being killed in the outnumbered team. I think it is pretty fair and gives a small incentive for the guys in outnumbered team to stay in the server and fight on. Is this the part that you consider confusing?

 

There is a currently way to somewhat get an extra (fraction) of a life so you could essentially get 4 lives if the counter doesn't reach 0.  Correct me if I'm wrong here, but it's all based on team balance.  I don't see any way to earn extra fractions of a life through my own actions. For example, being at .99 of a life basically half as good as having 1.01 of a life. If there was a way one's own successful actions could add to the fraction, it would be great.  If I had .99 of a life and could do something like a transport mission to earn an extra .02 towards it, converting it to 1.01, I would at least be a bit more optimistic about knowing my evening might not amount to 1 flight > I'm dead > other server. 

As it currently stands, I view TAW as "too much stress for too little reward" or more accurately "too much stress with no ability to earn reward in an area that - at least for me - matters.". 

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1 minute ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

 

There is a currently way to somewhat get an extra (fraction) of a life so you could essentially get 4 lives if the counter doesn't reach 0.  Correct me if I'm wrong here, but it's all based on team balance.  I don't see any way to earn extra fractions of a life through my own actions. For example, being at .99 of a life basically half as good as having 1.01 of a life. If there was a way one's own successful actions could add to the fraction, it would be great.  If I had .99 of a life and could do something like a transport mission to earn an extra .02 towards it, converting it to 1.01, I would at least be a bit more optimistic about knowing my evening might not amount to 1 flight > I'm dead > other server. 

As it currently stands, I view TAW as "too much stress for too little reward" or more accurately "too much stress with no ability to earn reward in an area that - at least for me - matters.". 

 

I see what you mean now. Thank you for the description. 

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2 hours ago, RFG_Hisl said:


The II./JG51 cited by Olbi has a large part in this, but it is not the only JG with this behavior.

One guy.  In our squad.  Shot a chute once.  

 

Now it's all of us?  

 

That's a pretty wide brush you are painting us with.  I didn't and do not defend the behaviour of the offender.  It was a cheesy and crappy thing to do.  But we are also individuals, just like the rest of you.  One does not speak for us all, and one players actions do not define us all.

Carry on.

 

 

 

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There cannot be a symmetrical solution to the team balance issue.  Axis will always be stacked, at least on the eastern front.  Any solutions have to take this into account and not merely reinforce success as they currently do, especially since success comes more easily when you have total technological and numerical superiority.  It's not exactly a coincidence that often half the Axis team are majors/colonels and above while half the VVS team are sergeants.

 

38 minutes ago, JG51_Beazil said:

One guy.  In our squad.  Shot a chute once.  

 

Now it's all of us?  

 

That's a pretty wide brush you are painting us with.  I didn't and do not defend the behaviour of the offender.  It was a cheesy and crappy thing to do.  But we are also individuals, just like the rest of you.  One does not speak for us all, and one players actions do not define us all.

Carry on.

 

 

 

 

I've seen the kid called out multiple times in chat for shooting people in their parachutes.  I personally don't care at all, but Ogg previously said that your group does not permit such "behaviour" and that he had gotten a stern talking to.  You can't have your moral high ground and eat your cake at the same time.  Carry on.

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1 hour ago, IV./JG51-Anton_Hafner said:

No one is mixing reality with anything. Your analogy fails because this is a virtual war and what you describe is part of an actual war. Shooting down pilots was not part of the actual war. As I said, among pilots there was a code. This is not like WT. WT is for gamers looking to feed their little egos. This is a combat flight simulators. it simulates flight and reenact WWII combat. When you act outside of what was done, then you are just a gamer. 

 

How are you not mixing it? You're saying that it didn't happen in reality (you don't have proof for that by the way), so it shouldn't happen in a game as well. The original poster was also disgusted. About being strafed in a game....

 

You do know that people who play this game, also play WT, right? There is no moral high-ground, not sure why you keep repeating stuff about WT. You're talking about gamers like they are lesser people (You're playing a game -> you're a gamer... stop telling me - and yourself for that matter - that this is WW2 reality... it's not, not even close).

 

Really? You want to force moral "realism" on a public dogfight server? How about cockpit realism, FM realism, DM realism, roster realism, lack of ammo/fuel realism (i.e logistics realism), how about spending hours patrolling and landing without any contact realism? How about following your flight leader's orders realism, covering his back realism instead of free hunting?

 

As I see it, the original poster got shot down (by his own fault, getting in a situation of 1 v 4), and came here to complain... invoking chivalry, of all the reasons why he should not be strafed - in a game, on a public server. Chivalry.... war.... troops on the Eastern front would beg to differ. So would the ones on the Western front.

 

This issue has gotten more attention it deserves. Have fun....

 

 

Edited by Raven109
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32 minutes ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

There cannot be a symmetrical solution to the team balance issue.  Axis will always be stacked, at least on the eastern front.  Any solutions have to take this into account and not merely reinforce success as they currently do, especially since success comes more easily when you have total technological and numerical superiority.  It's not exactly a coincidence that often half the Axis team are majors/colonels and above while half the VVS team are sergeants.

 

So...  Add ways to earn extra lives through successful actions/combat missions (give a fraction of a life per each cm/AK/GK) , keep the current "life bonus" for the outnumbered team and also add a multiplier to the outnumbered team's ability to earn those fractions of a life so they can build them faster.  If VVS is outnumbered, then they will have more lives to use before they hit the 20 hour wall.  If it somehow is Axis that is outnumbered, then they get the same benefit.   Maybe a symmetrical application of this particular item might be enough.   

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3 hours ago, IV./JG51-Anton_Hafner said:

 

No one is mixing reality with anything. Your analogy fails because this is a virtual war and what you describe is part of an actual war. Shooting down pilots was not part of the actual war. 

 

Wait wait, in a previous post you said that you have students that you recommend history books to, and then you write this little nugget here? Poor delusional Anton with visions of chivalry in the air, have a quick read about intentions vs reality in the air in WWII: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_parachutists

 

 

“You will not have any member of ^ Luftflotte bring dishonor to men and women who fought in WW2.”

 

Lol, delusional AND pompous.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Raven109 said:

 

How are you not mixing it? You're saying that it didn't happen in reality (you don't have proof for that by the way), so it shouldn't happen in a game as well. The original poster was also disgusted. About being strafed in a game....

 

You do know that people who play this game, also play WT, right? There is no moral high-ground, not sure why you keep repeating stuff about WT. You're talking about gamers like they are lesser people (You're playing a game -> you're a gamer... stop telling me - and yourself for that matter - that this is WW2 reality... it's not, not even close).

 

Really? You want to force moral "realism" on a public dogfight server? How about cockpit realism, FM realism, DM realism, roster realism, lack of ammo/fuel realism (i.e logistics realism), how about spending hours patrolling and landing without any contact realism? How about following your flight leader's orders realism, covering his back realism instead of free hunting?

 

As I see it, the original poster got shot down (by his own fault, getting in a situation of 1 v 4), and came here to complain... invoking chivalry, of all the reasons why he should not be strafed - in a game, on a public server. Chivalry.... war.... troops on the Eastern front would beg to differ. So would the ones on the Western front.

 

This issue has gotten more attention it deserves. Have fun....

 

 

Need to comment on this...
Yes, I got in combat with 4 enemies to protect our defense. Actually I was ALONE in the red side against more than 10 players in the blue side.
Do you want me to stop playing because of it or sit back and do nothing? 
And read my post properly, I didn't complain about balancing; instead of complaining about balancing, I chose to fight.
What I complained about is how sucks our community would become if we have more players with such a sick attitude.
I know people like you would find millions of reasons for excuse.
I care about our community of virtual pilots, traditions, culture, respect, terms that you probably have a little knowledge of.
TAW is a server that positions itself as close to realism as possible. Pilots are a specific group of people who respect each other.
It's a public server so what? According to you if it's a public server then everything is allowed?
You want to be a maniac, a villain, a ganster then go play other games created specifically for people who love it. But our community should be built on different principles.
Games/servers like this are a close reflection of real life. It's like driving, it exposes your personality, your way of looking at other people.
If you choose to play simulators you choose to have as close simulation of real life as possible, with everything that comes with it.
The guy decided to shoot an unarmed, defenceless guy sitting on the ground posing no threats at all to him. From my point of view, 
by shooting the man in my position it's like fulfilling his ego to humiliate a person who can't protect himself by using the advantage of this position.
That's why I really hate such people and there is no way I consider him a virtual pilot, he is a cancer to our community and probably with the high chance behaves similarly in real life.
 

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43 minutes ago, Olbi said:

Need to comment on this...
Yes, I got in combat with 4 enemies to protect our defense. Actually I was ALONE in the red side against more than 10 players in the blue side.
Do you want me to stop playing because of it or sit back and do nothing? 
And read my post properly, I didn't complain about balancing; instead of complaining about balancing, I chose to fight.
What I complained about is how sucks our community would become if we have more players with such a sick attitude.
I know people like you would find millions of reasons for excuse.
I care about our community of virtual pilots, traditions, culture, respect, terms that you probably have a little knowledge of.
TAW is a server that positions itself as close to realism as possible. Pilots are a specific group of people who respect each other.
It's a public server so what? According to you if it's a public server then everything is allowed?
You want to be a maniac, a villain, a ganster then go play other games created specifically for people who love it. But our community should be built on different principles.
Games/servers like this are a close reflection of real life. It's like driving, it exposes your personality, your way of looking at other people.
If you choose to play simulators you choose to have as close simulation of real life as possible, with everything that comes with it.
The guy decided to shoot an unarmed, defenceless guy sitting on the ground posing no threats at all to him. From my point of view, 
by shooting the man in my position it's like fulfilling his ego to humiliate a person who can't protect himself by using the advantage of this position.
That's why I really hate such people and there is no way I consider him a virtual pilot, he is a cancer to our community and probably with the high chance behaves similarly in real life.
 

 

I'm sorry, but you don't seem to be separating reality from game.... I really hope you're still in your VVS/Allied character and you are role playing.

 

On a side note, I said nothing about balancing. Anyway, good luck...

Edited by Raven109
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5 hours ago, Raven109 said:

 

How are you not mixing it? You're saying that it didn't happen in reality (you don't have proof for that by the way), so it shouldn't happen in a game as well. The original poster was also disgusted. About being strafed in a game....

 

You do know that people who play this game, also play WT, right? There is no moral high-ground, not sure why you keep repeating stuff about WT. You're talking about gamers like they are lesser people (You're playing a game -> you're a gamer... stop telling me - and yourself for that matter - that this is WW2 reality... it's not, not even close).

 

Really? You want to force moral "realism" on a public dogfight server? How about cockpit realism, FM realism, DM realism, roster realism, lack of ammo/fuel realism (i.e logistics realism), how about spending hours patrolling and landing without any contact realism? How about following your flight leader's orders realism, covering his back realism instead of free hunting?

 

As I see it, the original poster got shot down (by his own fault, getting in a situation of 1 v 4), and came here to complain... invoking chivalry, of all the reasons why he should not be strafed - in a game, on a public server. Chivalry.... war.... troops on the Eastern front would beg to differ. So would the ones on the Western front.

 

This issue has gotten more attention it deserves. Have fun....

 

 

 

You are making a lot of silly assumptions. The fact that I recognize that there are different kind of players with seeking a different kind of experience doesn't mean nor do I believe that one is better over the other. it is only a difference. In another game I am modder. I try mod a more historical game. In my battle mod people complain that the units route too early and with too many men. They obviously want every unit to fight to the last man. Unfortunately, militia would never do that. I recognize that he wants a certain experience. He wants a gaming experience, not a historical experience. 

 

The same is true in this genre. You could argue there are multiple approaches. Some use the game as a vehicle to experience aviation in World War 2 and participate in non specific groups that fly aircraft from both sides of the war. Then there are those seeking milsim and role- playing portraying specific units. There are many who fly in squadrons or in a Rotte/ wingman and there are plenty of groups and discord channels where you can seek a wingman. You should never have t fly alone if you do not want to. I recognize pilots personal choice to do so. Oh BTW, there were plenty of times when groups of air crafts encountered a single aircraft. If you read some of the combat reports, you ill know that. 

 

Last time I checked TAW is an "expert" server, so you have much of the realities you mentioned above. If you do not want full realism then TAW ain't for you. There are servers where you could have a more "gaming" experience. TAW attempts to replicate as much realism as possible. Unfortunately (fortunately) we are all "Lazarus."

 

3 hours ago, WokeUpDead said:

 

Wait wait, in a previous post you said that you have students that you recommend history books to, and then you write this little nugget here? Poor delusional Anton with visions of chivalry in the air, have a quick read about intentions vs reality in the air in WWII: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_parachutists

 

 

“You will not have any member of ^ Luftflotte bring dishonor to men and women who fought in WW2.”

 

 

If you had paid closer attention o detail you would have noticed I was talking about strafing down pilots. I made zero comments regarding shooting parachutists. (Note I removed your juvenile remark. Keep it civil or don't respond at all). 

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1 hour ago, IV./JG51-Anton_Hafner said:

 

If you had paid closer attention o detail you would have noticed I was talking about strafing down pilots. I made zero comments regarding shooting parachutists. (Note I removed your juvenile remark. Keep it civil or don't respond at all). 

 

First of all, the words in your post were "Shooting down pilots was not part of the actual war" which cannot be interpreted in any other way than "shooting down parachutes." You don't "shoot down" pilots on the ground, you strafe them.

 

Second, and speaking of paying closer attention to detail, if you had read the link I posted you would have read about cases of fighter pilots strafing downed pilots on the ground as well.

 

And thirdly, "pompous and deluded" is not juvenile at all, it's a very accurate way to describe someone who prattles on about "bringing dishonor" to WWII veterans through a game, and tries to lecture from a position of knowledge and civility while not actually knowing facts that are key to the discussion.

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OK, so here's some more stats related to TAW I'd like to see:

 

Since the beginning of this campaign, how many posts are actually being made to suggest ways to tweak and improve gameplay + deal with huge player balance shifts vs. how many posts are about "muh etiquette" and "muh morality"?  

 

Another reason I've been avoiding TAW.  This particular portion of the community is so far up its own ass posting diatribes that any suggestions given to improve the actual gameplay mechanics are swiftly buried. 

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1 hour ago, WokeUpDead said:

 

First of all, the words in your post were "Shooting down pilots was not part of the actual war" which cannot be interpreted in any other way than "shooting down parachutes." You don't "shoot down" pilots on the ground, you strafe them.

 

Second, and speaking of paying closer attention to detail, if you had read the link I posted you would have read about cases of fighter pilots strafing downed pilots on the ground as well.

 

And thirdly, "pompous and deluded" is not juvenile at all, it's a very accurate way to describe someone who prattles on about "bringing dishonor" to WWII veterans through a game, and tries to lecture from a position of knowledge and civility while not actually knowing facts that are key to the discussion.

 

Yes, I read the article, but it chooses cherry pick incidences and passes it off as if it was a normal act during the war. I assume you actually could actually read fallacious arguments, but I should have known better. 

 

It is clear when I said shooting down pilots I was referring to strafing. 

 

O agree with Adolf Galland, it was/ still is murder. It is outside the bounds of War in which the article is actually about. So, you are actually making the case that it should not be part of the "game." Thank you! 

 

 

51 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

OK, so here's some more stats related to TAW I'd like to see:

 

Since the beginning of this campaign, how many posts are actually being made to suggest ways to tweak and improve gameplay + deal with huge player balance shifts vs. how many posts are about "muh etiquette" and "muh morality"?  

 

Another reason I've been avoiding TAW.  This particular portion of the community is so far up its own ass posting diatribes that any suggestions given to improve the actual gameplay mechanics are swiftly buried. 

 

Or maybe we do not agree with your suggestions or maybe we do not see an issue as you do. I would take any points made that is ignore to be a point that no one feel is an issue, not that we are too up our own butts. 

 

Not too long ago I suggested that the plane-sets should reflect what your preferences are (Primary fighter - access to all fighters) Secondary -Bomber/transport- access to 50%) and tertiary attacker - access to 25% of those planes). I think I git one half interested comment. Apparently a TAW admin responded to another pot after mine and nothing was said. I guess he was a snob. Damn him! <-- this is facetious for the slow witted. 

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1 hour ago, IV./JG51-Anton_Hafner said:

 

Yes, I read the article, but it chooses cherry pick incidences and passes it off as if it was a normal act during the war. I assume you actually could actually read fallacious arguments, but I should have known better. 

 

. It is clear when I said shooting down pilots I was referring to strafing

 

O agree with Adolf Galland, it was/ still is murder. It is outside the bounds of War in which the article is actually about. So, you are actually making the case that it should not be part of the "game." Thank you! 

 

That article is not a full list of reported parachute killing incidents, it selected some to illustrate a big issue. A full list of reported chute kills would be very long, and a true list that includes unreported incidents would be much longer still, since dead mean tell no tales. It was as normal an act as many other unsavoury things during the war.

 

”It is clear when I said shooting down pilots I was referring to strafing.” What is clear is that your communication skills need more work.

 

Good for Galland, but he was part of an airforce where fighter pilots shot parachutists from day one and strafed columns of civilians a couple days after.

 

And I’m not using the article as an argument for or against the inclusion of chute killing in the game; I used it to show you that despite your delusions of war skies being full of chivalrous knights, parachute shooting and even strafing of downed pilots happened, from September 1, 1939 right to the last days of the war.

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2 hours ago, IV./JG51-Anton_Hafner said:

 

Or maybe we do not agree with your suggestions or maybe we do not see an issue as you do. I would take any points made that is ignore to be a point that no one feel is an issue, not that we are too up our own butts. 

 

Not too long ago I suggested that the plane-sets should reflect what your preferences are (Primary fighter - access to all fighters) Secondary -Bomber/transport- access to 50%) and tertiary attacker - access to 25% of those planes). I think I git one half interested comment. Apparently a TAW admin responded to another pot after mine and nothing was said. I guess he was a snob. Damn him! <-- this is facetious for the slow witted. 

 

Or maybe, I'm making suggestions that concern gameplay in search of trying to find solutions to keep team balance more even over all time zones and individual mission periods instead of going right to the edge of being off topic. 

 

If what I see as an issue isn't really the thing that needs fixing, that's ok.  It's what I thought I'd start with for a suggestion.  If something else does the trick, then more power to that fix.   

Edited by Mobile_BBQ

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1 hour ago, WokeUpDead said:

 

That article is not a full list of reported parachute killing incidents, it selected some to illustrate a big issue. A full list of reported chute kills would be very long, and a true list that includes unreported incidents would be much longer still, since dead mean tell no tales. It was as normal an act as many other unsavoury things during the war.

 

”It is clear when I said shooting down pilots I was referring to strafing.” What is clear is that your communication skills need more work.

 

Good for Galland, but he was part of an airforce where fighter pilots shot parachutists from day one and strafed columns of civilians a couple days after.

 

And I’m not using the article as an argument for or against the inclusion of chute killing in the game; I used it to show you that despite your delusions of war skies being full of chivalrous knights, parachute shooting and even strafing of downed pilots happened, from September 1, 1939 right to the last days of the war.

 

My communication is just fine when someone do not make suppositions and strawman arguments. Of coruse, you didn't stop there, you had to throw in a red herring for good measure. 

You cannot make an argument based on cherry picking and then claim that they may be a lot unreported. The article is stating that it did happen not how common it was. That is a big difference. I look forward to your next ad hom. 

 

1 hour ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

 

Or maybe, I'm making suggestions that concern gameplay in search of trying to find solutions to keep team balance more even over all time zones and individual mission periods instead of going right to the edge of being off topic. 

 

If what I see as an issue isn't really the thing that needs fixing, that's ok.  It's what I thought I'd start with for a suggestion.  If something else does the trick, then more power to that fix.   

 

I understand your motivation. The problem you made is assuming a non-response to your suggestion is that people do not care about making the server better. 

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10 minutes ago, IV./JG51-Anton_Hafner said:

 

 

My communication is just fine when someone do not make suppositions and strawman arguments. Of coruse, you didn't stop there, you had to throw in a red herring for good measure. 

You cannot make an argument based on cherry picking and then claim that they may be a lot unreported. The article is stating that it did happen not how common it was. That is a big difference. I look forward to your next ad hom. 

 

"My communication is just fine."  You wrote "shooting down pilots" but said you meant "strafing" and you consider this "fine" communication? Just say you made an oopsie and meant to say strafing.

 

The article is hardly cherry picking and clearly states how common it was, here are some excerpts:

  • about the September campaign it says " there were a number of incidents" when referring to Germans shooting at parachutes,
  • "it is true that some pilots still finished off parachuting Germans" when talking about Polish pilots in the Battle of Britain,
  • "Some USAAF fighter pilots claimed they received unwritten orders from their officers to shoot enemy airmen parachuting over their own territory" in 1942
  • "both German and American pilots did shoot enemy airmen in their parachutes, albeit infrequently,"
  • "Several German sources (examples in article) claim that American pilots frequently practiced shooting at parachutes, especially closer to the end of the war when Germany had more planes than pilots
  • "While some American aviators shot enemy airmen in parachutes..."
  • "There were episodes of shooting parachuting aircrew in the Mediterranean theater"
  • "The Japanese gained a bad reputation among the Allies in the Pacific for shooting enemy airmen dangling in their parachutes."

That's not cherry-picking, that's a pattern of behaviour throughout the war by all sides. Anyway, your first statement was absolute: "Shooting down pilots was not part of the actual war," when that's clearly not true. You then said that by "shooting down" you meant "strafing," fine, but that happened too. It was all a part of war just like terror bombings, strafing of civilians, suicide attacks, and other frequent and very un-chivalrous behaviour.

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Yes, still the same bad argument. Everyone of those quotes are vague and non-specific. Words like, "reports" or "some" or a "number of." Whenever I read stuff like that  am suspicious. Where are the exact numbers? Again, in your own article it regard s such behavior as "inhumane." The original argument is that it should be allowed because it is "just a game." Now the argument is that it happened, "sometimes."  Moreover, I never use any absolute terms, except to say there was a code of honor among pilots and the "inhumane" behavior was considered to be immoral or unethical. Your own source makes this argument. 

 

I give you credit you at least refrained from another juvenile ad hom this time. 

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1 hour ago, IV./JG51-Anton_Hafner said:

Yes, still the same bad argument. Everyone of those quotes are vague and non-specific. Words like, "reports" or "some" or a "number of." Whenever I read stuff like that  am suspicious. Where are the exact numbers? Again, in your own article it regard s such behavior as "inhumane." The original argument is that it should be allowed because it is "just a game." Now the argument is that it happened, "sometimes."  Moreover, I never use any absolute terms, except to say there was a code of honor among pilots and the "inhumane" behavior was considered to be immoral or unethical. Your own source makes this argument. 

 

I give you credit you at least refrained from another juvenile ad hom this time. 

 

The sources for all those quotes are right the article's references.

 

You never use absolute terms? What is this: "Shooting down pilots was not part of the actual war." That seems absolute to me. 

 

You follow that by "among pilots there was a code," but it's clear that the code was ignored often and by all sides, and so if you want to "reenact WWII combat" then chute killing is part of it.

 

I'd like to stop calling you pompous, but that last sentence is almost a definition of it. Thank you for the "credit," sire.

Edited by WokeUpDead
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18 hours ago, IV./JG51-Anton_Hafner said:

This is not like WT. WT is for gamers looking to feed their little egos

10 hours ago, IV./JG51-Anton_Hafner said:

The fact that I recognize that there are different kind of players with seeking a different kind of experience doesn't mean nor do I believe that one is better over the other.

 

You have a funny way of "recognizing" different kinds of players. In some parts of the world, this is called looking down upon people, and insulting them. So much for my "silly assumption"... I'm not gonna discuss the rest of your last post addressed to me. It's like you quoted me and then answered something else. Totally unrelated. I never said anything about 1 v 4 not being realistic, etc.... 

 

22 hours ago, IV./JG51-Anton_Hafner said:

I don't believe pilots killed down pilots on the ground. Somewhere there is a photo of a down pilot with other pilots shaking hands and talking. 

3 hours ago, IV./JG51-Anton_Hafner said:

You cannot make an argument based on cherry picking and then claim that they may be a lot unreported.

3 hours ago, IV./JG51-Anton_Hafner said:

The article is stating that it did happen not how common it was.

 

@IV./JG51-Anton_Hafner, do you see the irony of your statements? "Somewhere there is a photo"? Is that supposed to be proof?

 

You cherry pick a photo to base your belief that bad things didn't happen during Total War. Even if the photo exists (<<somewhere>>, as you scientifically put it), one occurrence does not a rule make.

 

Then @WokeUpDead brings some evidence that it did happen. Nobody said that it was the rule, by the way - that is your own addition. Your expectation, that murder during war is well document is out of this world. Not many normal beings, let alone one who is a murderer will readily and publicly admit to shooting defenseless people, even during war. 

 

Then you go and dismiss the articles, saying that it actually did happen, but didn't happen a lot. You just lost the debate here.

 

I'm sorry, but you are disingenuous. You go and choose your meaning from what is written and dismiss paragraphs which don't fit you discourse. As a consequence you are wasting everybody's time. You're not trying to find the truth, but rather you are trying to push your own version of the truth, lying in the process.

 

You also don't believe actual pilots reports, choosing to believe your own view of what happened - because what? Were you there? That is saying a lot.

 

You can go and search gun cam clips. You'll find videos where belly landed planes are strafed (during the process of belly landing and/or after - when the pilot is defenseless). Those clips are from the Western front, which was considered the "clean" front. If not even that convinces you that there was a chance that it did happen, then ... good luck with the pink view.

 

Having said this, TAW could add a killed pilot counter, if it's not much of a hassle. But this should only happen if the server can actually discriminate between pilots killed in their cockpits, while in air or landed, and bailed out pilots. This discussion is really about a minor detail of the whole game play.

 

11 hours ago, IV./JG51-Anton_Hafner said:

If you had paid closer attention o detail you would have noticed I was talking about strafing down pilots. I made zero comments regarding shooting parachutists.

 

Just for laughs, @IV./JG51-Anton_Hafner what's the difference between chute killing and strafing. Is it ok to do one, but not the other? You seem to differentiate between the two, is it just so you can "win" the debate?

 

When you answer, please try to address what I wrote, not something that you invented, like your last post to me.

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I am reading some posts and am in an amazement on some of the subjects. Is this not a game? Some people are really upset?Am I missing something here?Is there prize money? I just started playing on the Multiplayer this weekend, played a lot on my own. getting shot down a lot but having a ball. Built my own computer just for this game and my thanks to all involved. Hopefully I will not be known as air fodder. My fav is the Yak 1. Now I have teamspeak how does it work is it a group thing or do you have to have it one on one?

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dear admins,

another question:

blue is out of tanks! am i right to assume, that this means blue cannot win this map anymore, because no matter, whether red runs out of tanks themselves or out of planes (more likely)...the map will anyway end as a draw!? 🤔

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3 hours ago, dukethejuke said:

I am reading some posts and am in an amazement on some of the subjects. Is this not a game? Some people are really upset?Am I missing something here?Is there prize money? I just started playing on the Multiplayer this weekend, played a lot on my own. getting shot down a lot but having a ball. Built my own computer just for this game and my thanks to all involved. Hopefully I will not be known as air fodder. My fav is the Yak 1. Now I have teamspeak how does it work is it a group thing or do you have to have it one on one?

Sometimes people tend to take this too seriously, I agree. Welcome to the game! In teamspeak you can chat with multiple people if that`s what you mean.

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3 hours ago, dukethejuke said:

I am reading some posts and am in an amazement on some of the subjects. Is this not a game? Some people are really upset?Am I missing something here?Is there prize money? I just started playing on the Multiplayer this weekend, played a lot on my own. getting shot down a lot but having a ball. Built my own computer just for this game and my thanks to all involved. Hopefully I will not be known as air fodder. My fav is the Yak 1. Now I have teamspeak how does it work is it a group thing or do you have to have it one on one?

 

Yes, it's still a game. There are some that transformed it into a cult of some sorts it seems.

 

Anyway, welcome, and have fun.

 

Team speak has something like chat rooms/channels. Some channels are dedicated to specialized groups (e.g friends flying together) and some are the global channels, where anyone can join and speak.

 

You'll have to input the TAW teamspeak address into your team speak client to join TAW's specific team speak server.

Edited by Raven109

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43 минуты назад, =19GvFAB=Vlad-Executor сказал:

image.png.0d5b17422f16b7a43a18d1ce597cc492.png

 

What? How?

 

 

How did Map#3 suddenly ended in a draw?

- There surely were planes left on both sides, so is that because both sides ran out of tanks???

 

- Yes, Tank's limit for both sides was exceeded.

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, =LG=Cygi said:

Tears ...

 

Are you sad because you didnt get the chance to shoot my chute?

Edited by Riksen
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52 minutes ago, =19GvFAB=Vlad-Executor said:

 

How did Map#3 suddenly ended in a draw?

- There surely were planes left on both sides, so is that because both sides ran out of tanks???

 

- Yes, Tank's limit for both sides was exceeded.

 

 

 


Good point Executor. If tanks define victory, then we should be in map #6 by now.

Also, TAW manual needs an update; new info is not there, and tanks deciding win victory (or draw) not there neither.

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@=LG=Kathon hi there; a question. Blue side had ran out of tanks for a couple of map rolls but still victory was not conceeded to VVS; now all of a sudden LW has more tanks showing there. How is this possible? What am i missing?

 

Thanks in advance.

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it is surely not automatically a win for the side that still has tanks, but it should ultimately deny a win for the side that has lost all tanks as only tanks can capture objectives....obsolete anyway as blue just got a 135+ tank boost 😠

Edited by Paulshow2

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1 hour ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

@=LG=Kathon hi there; a question. Blue side had ran out of tanks for a couple of map rolls but still victory was not conceeded to VVS; now all of a sudden LW has more tanks showing there. How is this possible? What am i missing?

 

Thanks in advance.


Tanks are not a win condition anymore, running out of tanks means no more tank convoys are spawned, essentially negating the ability to gain terrain. The increase in resources must have been because of a warehouse spawning in one of the missions without being destroyed, both teams received increased resources.

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