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Tactical Air War

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1 hour ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

VVS team having life advantage, say 4 or 5 life instead of 3?

Active players on VVS side burn trough the lifes quite fast even when we are outnumbered thanks to this new pilot modelling. 

it's not about lives is about the fact that seeing 40 vs 20 on the server makes vvs players not willing to take part anymore for the campaign 
the russian campagn had the german tecnologically advanted but outnumbered where the vvs could have a chance thanks to their numbers in TAW the germans always have Tecnological advance and numbers, tell me whats fun and exciting of having 6 germans at 7000 altitude while you are three yaks 69 trying to defend your airport at a lower altitude

the server should limit how many germans there could be contemporary

or at least if they are more than the VVS, force em to fly bombers too

Edited by =GEMINI=Hawkmoon98
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6 minutes ago, =GEMINI=Hawkmoon98 said:

it's not about lives is about the fact that seeing 40 vs 20 on the server makes vvs players not willing to take part anymore for the campaign 
the russian campagn had the german tecnologically advanted but outnumbered where the vvs could have a chance thanks to their numbers in TAW the germans always have Tecnological advance and numbers, tell me whats fun and exciting of having 6 germans at 7000 altitude while you are three yaks 69 trying to defend your airport at a lower altitude

the server should limit how many germans there could be contemporary

or at least if they are more than the VVS, force em to fly bombers too

 

 

I dont mind the Germans at 9,5km. Up there they are mostly harmless and useless. I prefer them there because that's how VVS wins maps. 

If you force Germans in to bombers, the maps will be over in day or two. 

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Guys ..... Some of our squad usually flies this server.  It's a good server.  But we are an American squad and have been flying Russian $$$$ for 5 years.  Now we have the option to not fly Russian $$$$ in combat box.  Why would we want to fly Russian $$$$ again.  Lol.  I think that is the big problem in the american time zone.  

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I am an American and I prefer Germany. If not Germany, then I will definitely go Commie. The only US plane that interest me is the P-38. Perssonally, I like the bad boys. If there was a PTO, I will fly the Japanese planes. 

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2 hours ago, IV./JG51-Anton_Hafner said:

Perssonally, I like the bad boys.


Then you should fly USAF...or stop watching Hollywood movies 😁
 

3 hours ago, =GEMINI=Hawkmoon98 said:

it's not about lives is about the fact that seeing 40 vs 20 on the server makes vvs players not willing to take part anymore for the campaign 
the russian campagn had the german tecnologically advanted but outnumbered where the vvs could have a chance thanks to their numbers in TAW the germans always have Tecnological advance and numbers

 

You have a point here, and i agree when you spend a lot of time from map #1, the situation you describe starts to be a bit tiring by map #4/5. Even worse, VVS little tech goodies (vya23 map #3 - M82F map #5) are blocked by admins, while LW fighters have no restrictions.

Siddy is right too, current physyology and HE modelling is making things worse.

 

... 

Edited by 666GIAP_Chimango
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Two destroyed objects in the mission log, and zero ground kill in the summary stats string? How can it be possible?

 

stat.jpg

Edited by ITAF_Maven65
corrected image

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On 12/9/2019 at 3:17 PM, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

 

 Sadly, this makes real-world tactics like treetop altitude strikes totally impossible as the AI can see through trees/obstacles and even shoots through them.  So meta tactics specially adapted to this environment are developed, and you must use them to have any chance of survival.

 

 

There could be set of two AAA's - super sharp shooting enabled at short distance and worse for longer distance. Should it be a solution?

Edited by 1stCL/rudidlo

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11 hours ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

VVS team having life advantage, say 4 or 5 life instead of 3?

Active players on VVS side burn trough the lifes quite fast even when we are outnumbered thanks to this new pilot modelling. 

Whichever side I’m on I would want more lives :).  However, isn’t the partial/fraction life penalty when you’re on the outnumbered side already taking care of this?

 

If you’re outnumbered 15-7 for example, you could die/get captured 6 times (assuming you started with 3 lives) and still be able to keep flying - i.e. 7/15= 0.47 * 6 = 2.82 lives used, or 0.18 remaining.  All this depending on the average numbers on each team (or however the admins have set it up).

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16 hours ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

current physyology and HE modelling is making things worse.

+1

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16 hours ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:


Then you should fly USAF...or stop watching Hollywood movies 😁

 

LOL, I love the irony here ( though you are completely unaware of it). I teach history and I tell my students if you want to learn history, then read a book. If you want to be entertain, watch movies. 

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Physiology in itself is a great feature. I`m amazed if someone thinks it has made air combat less realistic. But the HE effectiveness against pilots is another thing, it could be decreased on both sides.  

 

Edit: I`m heading out for holidays today, so probably not going to TAW for a while. Merry christmas to each and everyone!

Edited by LLv24_Zami

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20 hours ago, IV./JG51-Anton_Hafner said:

I am an American... Commie.

 

You don't say?

 

 

Anyway, the balance has gotten much, much worse this map, yes.

 

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51 minutes ago, LLv24_Zami said:

Physiology in itself is a great feature. I`m amazed if someone thinks it has made air combat less realistic.

 

It is not about "realistic" or "not realistic". It is only about how you can use Yak1 vs 109f4 or g2 exactly on TAW server for the map No5 (or 4).

 

I suggest that La5 should be used with a "M82F"  feature for these 2 maps.

 

P.S: Just some stats: only 14 VVS players in TOP 50 (18 in 50 for kills) for experience points. That says everything about a plane set situation.

 

Edited by Norz
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26 minutes ago, Norz said:

 

It is not about "realistic" or "not realistic". It is only about how you can use Yak1 vs 109f4 or g2 exactly on TAW server for the map No5 (or 4).

 

I suggest that La5 should be used with a "M82F"  feature for these 2 maps.

 

P.S: Just some stats: only 14 VVS players in TOP 50 (18 in 50 for kills) for experience points. That says everything about a plane set situation.

 

I did not talk about the plane set. By all means, adjust it if it's necessary.

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42 minutes ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

 

You don't say?

 

I actually didn't. 

21 hours ago, IV./JG51-Anton_Hafner said:

I am an American and I prefer Germany. If not Germany, then I will definitely go Commie. 

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3 minutes ago, IV./JG51-Anton_Hafner said:

 

 

I actually didn't. 

 

 

The joke is that with that verbiage you leave little doubt where you're from.

Edited by 7.GShAP/Silas
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I was being facetious. The joke is actually on you. I worded that way to play on the stereotype. There is a reason for that. I was responding to an "American" regarding "playing" the Soviet Union. i supposed the joke is on you given it apparently went over your head. <-- sorry this sounds obnoxious. that isn't my intention. 

 

As I said, I find "playing" the US to be boring. Like I said, the P-38 fascinates me, but i could never playing in MP. I would be bored with the portrayal.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Norz said:

 

It is not about "realistic" or "not realistic". It is only about how you can use Yak1 vs 109f4 or g2 exactly on TAW server for the map No5 (or 4).

 

I suggest that La5 should be used with a "M82F"  feature for these 2 maps.

 

P.S: Just some stats: only 14 VVS players in TOP 50 (18 in 50 for kills) for experience points. That says everything about a plane set situation.

 


Exactly; and even though physyology it's a great idea, it's like the visuals and plane spotting right now: horribly done, needs a lot of tuning. Currently is more detrimental to gamplay than helpful or "realistic". And about numbers, first time i recall a VVS squad not being in the top 5 in fighters by map #5, or even a VVS pilot there, adding to what you posted here. Numbers are very teling, if someone wants to ignore how new patch affected VVS fighters...well, there not worse blind that the one who is not willing to see.

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1 hour ago, IV./JG51-Anton_Hafner said:

I was being facetious

 

Almost, but I'd say more like faecestious :biggrin: (I enjoy word games, sorry)

 

The good guy / bad guy mantra is simply laughable outside of the propaganda petri dish in which it thrives, in a similar way to the idea of books being history and movies being entertainment. Some books can tell you more about what didn't happen than what did, while some movies are archaeological treasure troves but are still mostly propaganda hog wash. Good guys and bad guys are like propaganda, in that they are all found on all sides and in all books and all movies to some extent.

 

In essence, what you need to do if you want discover what really happened, is keep an open mind, read and watch whatever you can on a subject, then try to distance yourself from it and apply some cool objective thinking, never being afraid to come back to it years later and look at it again, possibly with new info, and certainly with a different mindset.

 

Even then you will struggle to get anything like the full clear picture of what happened, but you will be streets ahead of the guy with the Xmas cracker one liner on the subject.

 

Fortunately none of this applies to good old TAW :biggrin: , talking of which, I really need to get airborne again :rolleyes:

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Here you have the answer why VVS not willing to fly that often now, why Pe2s are wiped out like never before, or il2 seem made of crystal glass. I added this video to the complaint section where we are discussing the degrading experience we have on the Eastern Front in VVS side after last patch by devs:
 


EDIT: in this case i edit cause apparently the engine is not stopped by the hit on the wing, but by an almost not noticeable hit (7.92mm maybe) on the engine area. So i correct myself, i can´t confirm this till further and proper tests are done.

Edited by 666GIAP_Chimango
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About the physics, I'll just leave this comment here. Figure it out yourselves about the blindness: 

 

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Typical derailing strategy by Zammi, you should be a politician! 😁 I post an irrefutable video of the exagerated effect of a 20mm hit, and you choose to put the atention on the G effects, which have nothing to do with HE and physyology.

Change your nickname to =LLv24=Stevie Wonder mate 

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7 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

Typical derailing strategy by Zammi, you should be a politician! 😁 I post an irrefutable video of the exagerated effect of a 20mm hit, and you choose to put the atention on the G effects, which have nothing to do with HE and physyology.

Change your nickname to =LLv24=Stevie Wonder mate 

What the hell are you talking about? Physiology is G effects :D 😄

 

Effects of 20mm on pilot is another topic. Get a grip man 😄

 

Edit: I don`t know what you should be named but it seems that you don`t understand anything I say. Maybe it`s the language, don`t know

Edited by LLv24_Zami

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8 minutes ago, LLv24_Zami said:

Effects of 20mm on pilot is another topic. Get a grip man 😄

 

Correction, not only pilot but plane performance as well. And it's the one affecting the most making VVS experience degrading; and it's the one posted in the video, and it's the one you try to derail from quoting something motoadve said about G-effects, which btw, i agree with him and had no problem accepting he was right. Try it sometime, if you accept you are not right sometimes won't hurt you...the oppsoite is a sign of weakness.

You are covering the sun with the hand.

 

 

...

Edited by 666GIAP_Chimango
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21 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

 

Correction, not only pilot but plane performance as well. And it's the one affecting the most making VVS experience degrading; and it's the one posted in the video, and it's the one you try to derail from quoting something motoadve said about G-effects, which btw, i agree with him and had no problem accepting he was right. Try it sometime, if you accept you are not right sometimes won't hurt you...the oppsoite is a sign of weakness.

You are covering the sun with the hand.

 

 

...

I haven't commented your video with a single word because I haven't watched it yet. 

 

But it seems that we agree on pilot physiology, great! Pilot physiology does not affect plane performance.

Edited by LLv24_Zami

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Is it me, or does the campaign seem to moving by a lot slower than previous ones? Did TAW take an attendance hit? I, myself haven't been flying as much as I'd like to.

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12 minutes ago, -332FG-Hank_DG said:

Is it me, or does the campaign seem to moving by a lot slower than previous ones? Did TAW take an attendance hit? I, myself haven't been flying as much as I'd like to.

lot of vvs left out due to balance and other issues, personally i'm not going to play this current taw due to the same old uber-hartmans guys who fly only germans fighters, germany has technology advance and numbers, so tbh playing vvs is not entertaining and exciting at all

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3 hours ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

 

Correction, not only pilot but plane performance as well. And it's the one affecting the most making VVS experience degrading; and it's the one posted in the video, and it's the one you try to derail from quoting something motoadve said about G-effects, which btw, i agree with him and had no problem accepting he was right. Try it sometime, if you accept you are not right sometimes won't hurt you...the oppsoite is a sign of weakness.

You are covering the sun with the hand.

 

 

...

 

Gotta admit, I thought you were talking about perceived issues with the G-Force modeling as well. I don't see an issue with it, seems very well done and realistic. 

 

Now that I understand you are talking about the modelling of pilot black-out due to injured pilot, I absolutely agree. It is way over-done. It should be an extremely remote chance that a pilot blacks out from shock damage. Unless the pilot has taken a direct hit to the body with a cannon round in which case he should be dead or blacked out instantly pretty much every time. Currently it is very frustrating and unrealistic that pilots are blacking out from all manner of splash damage and appendage hits with MG. That said, they could maybe revise this effect to introduce a temporary slight reduction in vision and plane control which would be fairly realistic to the amount of shock and disorientation incurred when you've just taken a serious injury. 

Edited by SCG_Wulfe
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11 hours ago, Pict said:

 

Almost, but I'd say more like faecestious :biggrin: (I enjoy word games, sorry)

 

The good guy / bad guy mantra is simply laughable outside of the propaganda petri dish in which it thrives, in a similar way to the idea of books being history and movies being entertainment. Some books can tell you more about what didn't happen than what did, while some movies are archaeological treasure troves but are still mostly propaganda hog wash. Good guys and bad guys are like propaganda, in that they are all found on all sides and in all books and all movies to some extent.

 

In essence, what you need to do if you want discover what really happened, is keep an open mind, read and watch whatever you can on a subject, then try to distance yourself from it and apply some cool objective thinking, never being afraid to come back to it years later and look at it again, possibly with new info, and certainly with a different mindset.

 

Even then you will struggle to get anything like the full clear picture of what happened, but you will be streets ahead of the guy with the Xmas cracker one liner on the subject.

 

Fortunately none of this applies to good old TAW :biggrin: , talking of which, I really need to get airborne again :rolleyes:

 

First, leave the straw man alone. 

Second, chill out; not everything needs to be aver analyzed. 

Thirdly, if you bothered to follow the actual conversation, the argument that was being made is that since BoBP there are people less interested in playing the Soviets, specifically Americans. I don't mind people jumping in, but if you going to try to be serious, at least know the context. 

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Interesting observation for TAW admins.

I noticed in my recent sorties the damage exceeded 100% yet the red plane continued flying.

In one case it flew for 5mins after such damage and ditched getting another 60%, in another one Pe was even able to land with damage more than 100%.

Is it a new feature of red aircraft or just a bug in how the server registers and evaluates hits?

Edited by 72AG_Obi

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Today I was shot down by one of a pilot, not big deal, it happens, I was 1 vs 4 or 5.

But, interesting what happens after. After I ditched and sitting on a ground counting 15sec delay, one of them II./JG51 Castell deliberately turned around and killed the pilot before I was able to leave the map.

I read lots of comments about chute killing but... this behavior made me so sick of this clear intention to kill the pilot after the fight was over that I question now if the community of virtual pilots is as bad as other games ones. 

I am sure there will be lots of followers of such shit behavior but I don't care, I need to speak up this.

TAW administrators if they want to maintain good spirit of this server, need to deal with it, probably to decrease the timer to 5-10secs so such people wouldn't have a chance to fulfill their sick blood thirsty dreams.

To add... I fly both sides but now thinking to play only the red one to avoid having such a team mate, I feel so disgusting to fly with him on the same team.

Edited by Olbi
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So, it's ok to jump and kill your virtual pilot in your cockpit, but not ok to jump and kill your virtual pilot on the ground? What changed? The medium? I hope you realize that this is a <<<game>>>! It's not real. Nothing is getting killed.

 

Enjoy the game, usually the purpose is to have fun.

Edited by Raven109
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I don't believe pilots killed down pilots on the ground. Somewhere there is a photo of a down pilot with other pilots shaking hands and talking. 

It should be noted that once you down a plane, you score a victory There is no gain shooting a down pilot. 

 

I think dismissing the behavior does a great disservice to the men and women who fought in the skies. Your behavior should always honor those pilots. If don't understand this, then you should probably play WT instead. 

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Again, this is a game,  just like WT is (as much as you don't want it to be, it still is). 

 

If you really want to play the game of applying real life morals to it, then tell me how you feel about strafing defenseless trucks, locomotives (on the ground mind you), arty positions, etc. Or is this ok? Do you sleep at night?

 

"Strafing non-real pixel pilot on the ground, not ok -> strafing other non-real pixel troops on the ground, ok" How does that work?

 

"There is no gain shooting a down pilot." There is no loss either, it's a game.

 

I'm not gonna talk about honoring real life people through generic pilot skins in a game.

 

Do not mix reality with games, they are very far apart, that's my point. 

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4 hours ago, 72AG_Obi said:

Interesting observation for TAW admins.

I noticed in my recent sorties the damage exceeded 100% yet the red plane continued flying.

In one case it flew for 5mins after such damage and ditched getting another 60%, in another one Pe was even able to land with damage more than 100%.

Is it a new feature of red aircraft or just a bug in how the server registers and evaluates hits?

I think its how the server is counting the damage - for example today one plane had a rudder pannel shot of (100percent damage) but he managed to land and while bouncing on the ground his whole tail separated -additional damage after that 100 percent.

 

Generally You can get 100 damage, like list rudder, aerlions , shut down engines but still glide home and land 

Edited by Carl_infar

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9 hours ago, IV./JG51-Anton_Hafner said:

I don't mind people jumping in, but if you going to try to be serious

 

You don't have an option, and as far as the good guys / bad guys thing is concerned, I am serious, it's laughable and I'm not alone in thinking that.

 

9 hours ago, IV./JG51-Anton_Hafner said:

if you bothered to follow the actual conversation, the argument that was being made is that since BoBP there are people less interested in playing the Soviets, specifically Americans

 

Pre-empting such debate I made a poll some time time back in an effort to gauge which way people would go after BoBP was released, so I have been following this for quite a while and I don't think it's as clear cut as some seem to believe.

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3 hours ago, IV./JG51-Anton_Hafner said:

I don't believe pilots killed down pilots on the ground. Somewhere there is a photo of a down pilot with other pilots shaking hands and talking. 

It should be noted that once you down a plane, you score a victory There is no gain shooting a down pilot. 

 

I think dismissing the behavior does a great disservice to the men and women who fought in the skies. Your behavior should always honor those pilots. If don't understand this, then you should probably play WT instead. 

Sorry, I can hardly keep myself from laughing.
Chutekilling and groundkilling are the order of the day with the friendly support of the Devs.
The II./JG51 cited by Olbi has a large part in this, but it is not the only JG with this behavior.

Edited by RFG_Hisl

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To admins of TAW,

 

This version of TAW, like many before, we experience the LW stack that is prevalent most of the time, specially during EST mornings and evenings. It seems the decision to allow the unbalance based on squadrons has made the issue worse. I understand the importance of letting squadron members play together but some sort of offset should be implemented when the difference is absurd (one of my last missions there were 12 of us against 44 LW). I see that the life system already helps that somewhat but I think there should be more in regards to the ground war as well. What do you think about decreasing the amount of ground kills when one of the sides has a ratio higher than 2:1 for a mission. For example, if the whole mission had 30 LW players and 10 VVS players, the total ground destruction associated with the LW would be divided by 3. So if LW destroyed 30 tanks in that mission, the offset feature would decrease that to 10. This would help to prevent the crazy advances we see take place during hours which most unbalance takes places. Maybe this feature could only apply for the total pool of ground vehicles only so the players would still retain their real amount of vehicles destroyed. So in the example above, if all those 30 tanks were destroyed by a single LW player, he would still retain his 30 tank kills but when the system calculates the tank pool, damage to the advancing tank column, and nap progression, it divides the number by 3.

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On 12/19/2019 at 8:18 AM, Cpt_Siddy said:

VVS team having life advantage, say 4 or 5 life instead of 3?

Active players on VVS side burn trough the lifes quite fast even when we are outnumbered thanks to this new pilot modelling. 

 

I would be more motivated to tactical-air-warring if there was a way to earn extra lives (up to 5).   Perhaps something like a .01 for air and ground kills and .02 gain for completed combat missions.  That way you could still  "20 hour wait" die but, if you played it smart you could juggle the life counter to stay above 0.

Edited by Mobile_BBQ

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