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=LG=Kathon

Tactical Air War

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49 minutes ago, LLv24_Zami said:

People are flying the machines, true. In that case, maybe it's about people also when the blues win. Not the usual server bias¬†ūüėČ

The only injustice I remember is the endless paratroopers. Red really couldn't resist it.

When the paratroopers was limited, the chances of the parties to win equalized, now the outcome of the war is decided by the people in both teams, who can use the advantage of their machines.

And although numerical superiority continues to play a big role, the last few campaigns on TAW are conducted in a very intense struggle, where until the last moment it is not clear who will eventually win.

I think that everyone is bored playing against an opponent who does not resist.

Yesterday, both teams kept the chance to win map#2 until the very last mission. It seems to me that this is the intensity of the struggle and attracts many people to this server.

Edited by =2ndSS=Lawyer1
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30 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

The only injustice I remember is the endless paratroopers. Red really couldn't resist it.

When the paratroopers was limited, the chances of the parties to win equalized, now the outcome of the war is decided by the people in both teams, who can use the advantage of their machines.

And although numerical superiority continues to play a big role, the last few campaigns on TAW are conducted in a very intense struggle, where until the last moment it is not clear who will eventually win.

I think that everyone is bored playing against an opponent who does not resist.

Yesterday, both teams kept the chance to win map#2 until the very last mission. It seems to me that this is the intensity of the struggle and attracts many people to this server.

I remember a lot more injustice mentioned  (in general, not referring to you).

But it's great if we are past that stage now and we can enjoy this as it is. A fun game and server, not to be taken too seriously though. 

 

Well played for the first maps.

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a few more seconds and I fall asleep...

 

 

I love this taw because it has the necessary difficulty, the raid is prioritized, because if you fly you only eat shit.

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11 hours ago, =LG=Mad_Mikhael said:

In theory, yes. Practice? You are barely faster and in 5mins you are too late to attack Pe2 before bomb drop. Or after drop, you are chasing enemy deep in enemy territory. Or you have enemy fighters on you. If you put yourself ahead, attack from head on, gain again distance ahead of him, attack, repeat one more time, you are deep in enemy territory, over his strongpoint or airfield.

 

First thing I want be really clear about is that I never use head on attacks, and never have I advocated the use of head on attacks. This is for many reasons.

 

1. Closing speed significantly reduces the time window available to you to line up and maintain any kind of useful gun run.

2. The Pe-2 is well armed from the front, so you stand a chance of taking hits.

3. Like from 6 o'clock you are only moving in one axis, so appear relatively stationary in the other two, making you an easier target.

4. Again like from 6 o'clock, your have the smallest profile of the bomber to shoot at.

5. Your ability to convert your speed to get back to you initial attack point is zero.

6. You're inevitably going to end up in the Pe-2's 6 o'clock area, so have a high probability of taking hits from the rear gunners.

 

=====================

 

I spent a short while last night testing my attack technique against a Pe-2-35 with Bf-109E-7 and the Macchi 202 (the historically correctly armed version, ie., without the 20mm cannon pods! ) and found that I had no problem with speed to get myself in an advantageous position to the bombers, and during my repeated attacks maintain that advantage with  engine manifold pressure set at around 1.1 ata.

I had no problem avoiding the Pe-2 gunners, while quickly getting decent hits on it, enough to stop one engine in 2 passes, which is usually enough to down a Pe-2.

 

I limited my attacks in the 109 to one side only, coming from the right, as the offset gun-sight is easier to work with like this, therefore more effective. But this didn't cost me much time.

 

===========================

 

The whole debate here stems from people who complain that bomber gunner AI is too accurate and others who disagree. Therefore it is not a question of time, nor front-lines, nor fighter cover, nor clouds.

 

Example. Last night while testing as I said above, I was late to collect my wife from the train...for that I got shot down and not by any AI :) However, it had zero bearing on the effectiveness of the bomber gunner AI, or my ability to avoid them while shooting down their bomber.

 

So I agree with what you are saying, but it has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the AI gunners. Such is life is about all I can offer there.

 

11 hours ago, =LG=Mad_Mikhael said:

I did a lot of head on passes in this campaing against Pe-2. It's not working that well. Closing speed is very high, litle window to aim and open fire and if you score hits it's often not enough. And of course sometimes after passing bomber on head-on with 600km/h, while he is doing around 400km/h, gunner scores a hit ūü§®

 

Like I said above, I neither use nor advocated head on attacks for the reasons I outlined. This can be seen in the track I posted and in the advice I have given previously.

 

11 hours ago, =LG=Mad_Mikhael said:

My point is. Yes, in theory your advice is good, but in practice, right now on TAW, not really. Frontline targets and airfields are too close together. Often there is no time for patience. Following your advice is leading to not attacking bombers at all, since you have no speed and time to put yourself ahead and attack from bomber 1/11.
But generaly I think people are getting to close to bombers. I've seen in my replays a lot of flying behind bomber and firing from 200m and closer. But again, easy to say, open fire from 500m and break off at 300m, harder to apply and scoring hits. But possible.

 

I think you misunderstand my advice, which does not include head on attacks. I attack from high to one side and slightly ahead, a decent distance away from the bomber, the roll in towards it at approximately 90 deg to the bombers course, aiming ahead and diving at up to 45 deg. I avoid getting too close and avoid the 6 o'clock. I push on through to the other side and once clear, zoom climb and turn onto the bombers heading for a repeat attack, if needed. I call this the "high sided attack". It has zero to do with head on attack style.

 

I made a track about this, I don't really want or have the time to make a video.

 

I'll up load it again later if your interested. 

 

 

Edited by Pict
Spelling, tweaking etc.
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16 minutes ago, Prancingkiller2 said:

Is there an AI accuracy level or "difficulty" that control the gunner accuracy?

Yes there is.

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6 minutes ago, Prancingkiller2 said:

And what settings do we have on TAW now?

I don't know. Iirc there's ace, veteran, normal and rookie AI levels. WoL for example uses ace level, which is insane. I don't think TAW uses ace though. Normal level gunner is most realistic imo.

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3 minutes ago, Prancingkiller2 said:

so let's wait to see if anyone knows what level we have on TAW.. i have some suspect

 

Mostly novice, there is some RnG that let it be medium difficulty sometimes, but you have no way of knowing what skill level gunner you have at your back.

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2 hours ago, Ala13_UnopaUno_VR said:

 

 

 

a few more seconds and I fall asleep...

 

 

I love this taw because it has the necessary difficulty, the raid is prioritized, because if you fly you only eat shit.

 

 

Nice video editing.  Que chévere!

 

Edited by 7.GShAP/Silas

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On 8/3/2019 at 8:08 PM, =LG=Kathon said:

All gunners are set the same:

25%/50%/25%/0% low/normal/high/ace

 

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"Mostly novice"

"medium difficulty sometimes"

 

you guys are pathetic, you dont even know what you're talking about and you reply

so i guess when you meet an high skill gunner you can't even get in turret arc of fire because that's the one i've seen that is going to hit everytime it's geometrically possible, nice.

So not only you have an automatic system behind you that will automatically spot any plane that is going to attack you, but you may also have the one with super aim that is going to kill him on the first shot if you're lucky enough, does that even fit into a PvP scenario? no, since you can have friendly fighters behind you just waiting for your Gunner Bot to start screaming and nobody even need to spot any bandit, you know that they are engaging. Use human gunners.

Edited by Prancingkiller2

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11 minutes ago, Prancingkiller2 said:

"Mostly novice"

"medium difficulty sometimes"

 

you guys are pathetic, you dont even know what you're talking about and you reply

so i guess when you meet an high skill gunner you can't even get in turret arc of fire because that's the one i've seen that is going to hit everytime it's geometrically possible, nice.

So not only you have an automatic system behind you that will automatically spot any plane that is going to attack you, but you may also have the one with super aim that is going to kill him on the first shot if you're lucky enough, does that even fit into a PvP scenario? no, since you can have friendly fighters behind you just waiting for your Gunner Bot to start screaming and nobody even need to spot any bandit, you know that they are engaging. Use human gunners.

Quit acting like a baby and take a look: 

 

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About  all the long debate about gunners.

Prancingkiller i agree with u and many pilots , attack to bombers is a very risky task . Not easy.  I think your main problem is focus this problem on Pe2 . For me, AI gunnery is insane for all gunners, and all fighters suffer a great risk. I assure you, when you fly on red side u will suffer the same problems.

 

I read some post ago, something relationship to TAW improvements. For me, TAW is allways heding to better experience.

 

Now , with the announcement of BoNormandy , u can see some IA objects very interstings.... V-1 , C47 and B26 .... some of them , maybe some day becomes flyable i hope. But on meantime.... how we can profit this toys for TAW???

I only can imagine... my knolowge about programing is 0 , but i hope on future, when Air Marshal was avaliable , maybe TAW can use it for order some IA functions like supplys ( C-47 , ju-52 ) raids ( IA bombers and flyable bombers controlled by IA ) , etc, etc.

The inclusion of IA missions under especific parameters, ordered by Marshall, i think will add a  very interesting options to TAW.

 

greetings all.

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I agree, i fly mostly Red and i fly Pe-2, since we dont see many blue bombers im talking about the Pe-2 but i refer to gunners in general, Pe-2 is just very common, to fight against as blue and to fly with as Red, im enjoying TAW a lot that's why im spending time on the forum to report things that would improve the experience for most part of us, if i wasnt interested or i was the only one with that gunner's opinion, i wouldnt be here

Edited by Prancingkiller2

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I advise all copmlaining about the gunners to swich to that position themselves. Than see how easy is to hit a fighter coming from dead six or high six. You just point the gun more or less in the path and let it rip.

So many people say that they come from the sides and other bullshit but in 90percen cases that i've seen on all Taws they just come from high 6 and continue till they pass the bombers...

 

After, some of those people instead of improving their skills just come and whine on forums...

Check the video's of expirienced flyjers like Sheriff who for example on one of the previous Taws didnt loose even 1 plane to gunners (when the gunners were set to higher skills level than are now) while shooting down tons of pe2s

 

 

 

Edited by Carl_infar
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4 minutes ago, Carl_infar said:

I advise all copmlaining about the gunners to swich to that position themselves. I for example in most and see how easy is to hit a fighter coming from dead six or high six. You just point the gun more or less in the path and let it rip.

So many people say that they come from the sides and other bullshit but in 90percen cases that i've seen on all Taws they just come from high 6 and continue till they pass the bombers...

 

After, some of those people instead of improving their skills just come and whine on forums...

Check the video's of expirienced flyjers like Sheriff who for example on one of the previous Taws didnt loose even 1 plane to gunners (when the gunners were set to higher skills level than are now) while shooting down tons of pe2s

 

 

 

i feel like i need to post that again, diving from high to low with that angle and you can imagine the crossing speed from left to right

gunner.thumb.png.96f0affb8304fd287f0d8388d73ac55e.png

 

and another huge advantage of the AI gunner is the automatic spotting by the way

Edited by Prancingkiller2

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Still a more or less straight line while passing close to the bomber i guess...

 

And why shouldnt the gunners spot, are thay a baggage?

 

Anyway if You would put so much effort in training and looking for correct tactic, than You are putting in forum whining , You would be fare better off.

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Don't waste your time hanging out with this crazy dude who fights against AI.

He can't defeat gunners on the server, so he decided to try to beat them on the forum )

Edited by =2ndSS=Lawyer1
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Anyone "reporting a problem" is required to provide a track to be analysed or face the ignore user button.

 

Spoiler

ignorant_user.JPG.2fe2c6ee1e2ca5571eddbe6d48045055.JPG

 

Easy & effective solution as long as everyone stops quoting him he will effectively disappear. Hockey puck is on his half of the ice :) 

Edited by Pict
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it's not a straight line if you look from his point of view, lol 

not even replying to Lawver anymore since it's just like talking to a problematic kid.. and im not here to waste time with kids.. 

yeah your gunner should definitely be able to see through things and spot everything, even fighters diving from the sun, sure dude.

i provided an ACMI file and a pic for example, but if you're replying with useless shit yeah, better to ignore and not reply

 

 

Edited by Prancingkiller2

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55 minutes ago, Carl_infar said:

So many people say that they come from the sides and other bullshit but in 90percen cases that i've seen on all Taws they just come from high 6 and continue till they pass the bombers...

 

Very true, simply because they lack the patience required to get it right.  My grandfather was a WWI pilot, Royal Flying Corps. Two of his favorite phrases were. "It's easy when you know how" and "practice makes perfect".

 

The knowledge is freely available as is the ability to practice it, so it's a lack of something else. I say patience, but that can easily be translated as laziness or just having been spoiled as a child. Only thing I can tolerate less than a spoiled child, is a spoiled adult.

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i've been in flight sim communities since long time enough to be able distinguish the guys that likes to fly easy with as few risks as possible (like flying only Pe-2 for many reasons..) and some of them are so scared if you remove some of their surreal protection which is the only thing that keep them flying that they would pretend to not see an OP gunner if they would shot down a fighter from 10 Km far. And you can easily distinguish them by the attachment that they keep on the things that allow them to "game the sim" such a high skilled AI gunner in a PvP scenario.  As told you, fly with human gunners, if it's that easy to shot down fighters with rear gun and you can easily spot fighter diving from everywhere from the back, what's the problem?

Edited by Prancingkiller2

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14 minutes ago, Prancingkiller2 said:

i provided an ACMI file and a pic for example,

 

Track file that can play in game (no substitute) please, or I push "the button"  :biggrin:

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you think i care more about uploading big file from work because you can't download Tacview or that you will block me? honestly dude, i'm afraid i dont really care about you..

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Hmm Reds fighting each other over Pe2 gunners. All those telling Prancingkiller2 to train, may want to know that Prancingkiller2 has flown 41hrs as VVS. So... :dance:

 

That said, may also add that it is true that very often Pe-2s are not even engaged and ignored by the well skilled LW pilots. In many situations they are indeed impossible to shoot down without losing your own life. Say 500+ kph shallow dive. I have seen them being ignored very often, so that beforementioned assumption is correct. Now...:popcorm:

 

ūüó£ÔłŹ

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I don't need or want a 3rd party software. You need to prove your allegations about the flight model with a "game track record", those are the rules (18)

 

Spoiler

rule18.thumb.JPG.499c9b2cadf46606d271d6238150fdfc.JPG

 

11 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

So... :dance:

 

So what? Since when did quantity mean quality?

Edited by Pict

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Sadly, that's the difference between casual players that would abuse OP things as much as they can, fighting to keep their OP things running and feeling good gaming their sim, and players that care about the  serious simulation side of the thing that if they fly the Pe-2 and see fighters not engaging scared of gunners, they see that it's wrong and they report trying to get things fixed, yes it's that sad as it looks.

Edited by Prancingkiller2

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6 minutes ago, Pict said:

So what? When did quantity ever equal quality?

 

"Quantity has a quality all of it's own." - Joseph Stalin.  :P

 

29 minutes ago, Prancingkiller2 said:

you think i care more about uploading big file from work....

 

This forum fight has been going on for nearly 3 days with regular posting, nearly hourly, at all hours of the day, from all involved.  Unless you have a job as a Meth tester for a street gang, I doubt you actually have a job.  

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1 minute ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

 

"Quantity has a quality all of it's own." - Joseph Stalin.  :P

 

 

This forum fight has been going on for nearly 3 days with regular posting, nearly hourly, at all hours of the day, from all involved.  Unless you have a job as a Meth tester for a street gang, I doubt you ac

Won't reply to stupid post, that should be moderated out

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19 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Hmm Reds fighting each other over Pe2 gunners. All those telling Prancingkiller2 to train, may want to know that Prancingkiller2 has flown 41hrs as VVS. So... :dance:

 

That said, may also add that it is true that very often Pe-2s are not even engaged and ignored by the well skilled LW pilots. In many situations they are indeed impossible to shoot down without losing your own life. Say 500+ kph shallow dive. I have seen them being ignored very often, so that beforementioned assumption is correct. Now...:popcorm:

 

ūüó£ÔłŹ

I only go after them if I know their rear gunner is out of ammo.  So, mostly ignore them.  I'm not skilled at shooting them down, and I have only an hour every few days to play, so I'm surely not going to practice instead of play. I have to accept that if I go in a straight line at any angle near a bomber, I'm dead.

 

The gunnery is pretty hilarious a lot of times and I don't see it changing anytime soon, so it is what it is.

 

What gets me annoyed is the auto-spotting every bomber with a crew gets.  Even when a fighter is above clouds you get a notification.... talk about "gamey".  It's the same reason MP is so important to a lot of people, because SP you can't play any tricks on AI.

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5 minutes ago, Prancingkiller2 said:

Won't reply to stupid post, that should be moderated out

 

But....  the Stalin quote is historical.

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27 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

 

 

That said, may also add that it is true that very often Pe-2s are not even engaged and ignored by the well skilled LW pilots.

 

Remember on the first map when half SCG, inducing you hanged on my 6 for like 10km?  :crazy:

 

:dance:

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11 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

nearly 3 days

 

Since when did years decades become days?  :biggrin:

Edited by Pict

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