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Tactical Air War

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1 minute ago, Daneelas said:

This is not helpful. This obviously is not the way to do it. Still, I am looking for a video on how to do it.

i think it's mostly about staying out from the gunner's arc of fire

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4 minutes ago, Prancingkiller2 said:

i think it's mostly about staying out from the gunner's arc of fire

Yeah, but then that validates the point of the people saying that AI is too accurate. If you pass within the arc and get hit consistently, that means the accuracy of the gunner is very high - which I doubt it was the case.

I would like to find some videos where the fighter passes through the firing arc of the gunner and still manages to down Pe-2 with good tactics.

Edited by Daneelas

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2 minutes ago, Daneelas said:

Yeah, but then that validates the point of the people saying that AI is too accurate. If you pass within the arc and get hit consistently, that means the accuracy of the gunner is very high - which I doubt it was the case.

I would like to find some videos where the fighter passes through the firing arc of the gunner and still manages to down Pe-2 with good tactics.

that's what is all about, yes gunners are too accurate because the only way to attack without getting hard damaged right now is not getting into the arc of fire at all

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As it's almost lunchtime here, I figured now would be a good time to reheat a comment I made yesterday (and eat it) :biggrin:

 

eatmywords.thumb.jpg.f2a36aa527c362df83525eb3e4ca7267.jpg

Edited by Pict
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Dear server admins.

Your settings for the flak do not have to be set to "laser guided". It ruins the game!

Cheers

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Where can I find some active squads (Blues) that might accept a new pilot? I am experienced as a pilot, but had not been very active in multiplayer, would like to fly regularly.

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guy's it's all fine, i'd bet half of you will stop flying on TAW if the gunner had less accuracy and you actually needed to talk and organize with other people on TS to get cover instead of typing on the forum like little girls, defending the only thing that keeps you alive without doing anything but flying straight home, force gunners to be human controlled, everything solved.

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44 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Loke said:

Dear server admins.

Your settings for the flak do not have to be set to "laser guided". It ruins the game!

Cheers

On the contrary, it makes the game much more interesting. I was just hit by an anti-aircraft gun as I was diving into the airfield. But I think it's fair. I was in a hurry and made a mistake, so I died. All fair. Anti-aircraft guns are easy to deceive, it's just ordinary stupid bots. You just need to think a little how to beat them

7 minutes ago, Prancingkiller2 said:

guy's it's all fine, i'd bet half of you will stop flying on TAW if the gunner had less accuracy and you actually needed to talk and organize with other people on TS to get cover instead of typing on the forum like little girls, defending the only thing that keeps you alive without doing anything but flying straight home, force gunners to be human controlled, everything solved.

Try the Berloga server. There are no anti-aircraft guns and gunners. I think it's perfect. You should definitely like it there)

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52 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

On the contrary, it makes the game much more interesting. I was just hit by an anti-aircraft gun as I was diving into the airfield. But I think it's fair. I was in a hurry and made a mistake, so I died. All fair. Anti-aircraft guns are easy to deceive, it's just ordinary stupid bots. You just need to think a little how to beat them

Try the Berloga server. There are no anti-aircraft guns and gunners. I think it's perfect. You should definitely like it there)

try not typing stupid things for a day, you'll feel better, and everyone will be grateful

Edited by Prancingkiller2

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33 minutes ago, Prancingkiller2 said:

try not typing stupid things for a day, you'll feel better, and everyone will be grateful

I'll give you some advice. Just play on the server or don't play if you don't like it, but please don't abuse the forum in different nonsense)

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Just now, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

I'll give you some advice. Just play on the server or don't play if you don't like it, but please don't abuse the forum in different nonsense)

im reporting problems that have been noticed by most of the pilots out there, that's what the forum is about, what makes it bad is people like you starting no sense arguing with senseless arguments, so just let admins get the reports and they'll do what they can to accomplish everyone. 

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23 minutes ago, Prancingkiller2 said:

im reporting problems

You reported only one problem - you do not know how to properly attack bombers. This is your private problem. I don't know how the administration can help you with that )

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5 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

You reported only one problem - you do not know how to properly attack bombers. This is your private problem. I don't know how the administration can help you with that )

Can you please a link to a video showing how it is done properly?

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I already put up a track file on page 381 showing my way of attacking bombers, it was a LaGG-3 against a few He-111's but the same principle applies.

 

Avoid the 6 o'clock area period.

Attack from high 1 or 11 and dive on a course perpendicular to the bomber at roughly 45 deg., no turning or jinking, just maintain best possible speed, fire and continue through till well clear.

Use speed to climb back up on other side and repeat till bomber is shot down.

Avoid getting too close to the bomber. The closer you are, the more sky you fill in the gunners sights, the easier you are to hit.

Take your time, you dictate the timing of the attacks, lose your patience & lose your life.

If you misjudge and appear to be getting too close or in the 6 area, dive and break off.

 

What this all does is make it hard for the gunners to hit you as you are continually tracking in 3 axis and at high speed, while still giving you plenty of opportunity to line up a fairly easy deflection shot at the bombers weakest points, ie., cockpit, engines & fuel tanks.

 

=============================

 

On the other hand to attack from the rear makes you an easy target for the gunners as you are not tracking at speed in any direction and appear virtually stationary when compared to the technique above.

Don't forget to subtract the speed of the bomber from any speed you have when you attack from behind.

The bomber presents it's smallest profile from behind, so is easy to miss and it's pilot is well protected by armor from the 6 o'clock too.

 

===========================

 

Tracks are way better than videos as you can study the action from all angles. If you want a demonstration track made, just pick the aircraft you want to see in the track and I will do it later for you when I get a little time.

Edited by Pict
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39 minutes ago, Daneelas said:

Can you please a link to a video showing how it is done properly?

Ask better this have those pilots, who shot down my PE2 in this campaign on TAW. Many did it without getting damaged. 
But I know exactly how not to do it.  Not fly for PE2 in sektor of fire gunners on straight and long. They will definitely knock you down in this case. But it's not their fault, it's your fault.

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1 hour ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

You reported only one problem - you do not know how to properly attack bombers. This is your private problem. I don't know how the administration can help you with that )

i reported the problem that i've seen reported by many guys and all the people i can talk with that are flying TAW, and have seen that in server chat aswell many many times, so if everyone see something that you dont, better consider wearing a gooood pair of big big glasses and stop talking shit

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26 minutes ago, Prancingkiller2 said:

i reported the problem that i've seen reported by many guys and all the people i can talk with that are flying TAW, and have seen that in server chat aswell many many times, so if everyone see something that you dont, better consider wearing a gooood pair of big big glasses and stop talking shit

Stop looking for the reasons for your failures in other places. Look for its in yourself

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28 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

Stop looking for the reasons for your failures in other places. Look for its in yourself

stop replying to reports that does not require your response, since nobody asked your opinion (which is pretty much irrelevant and insignificant since it's wrong) 

if there was any moderator around you would have been warned by long time in any other forum

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22 minutes ago, Prancingkiller2 said:

stop replying to reports that does not require your response, since nobody asked your opinion (which is pretty much irrelevant and insignificant since it's wrong) 

if there was any moderator around you would have been warned by long time in any other forum

Several other people besides me have shown you that you are mistaken. But you simply ignore the opinions of others and try to imagine your personal weaknesses as if it were a common problem.

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Nope, most of the people on the server think exactly what i did wrote, and they could not be listened cause they dont wanna mess on the forum with people like you, waiting from morning to evening that somebody type something to reply with senseless rensponses, and btw, you have not been shot down by any fighter since 17 flights, and in the meantime you got a 109 F-2 with a single shot and you survived another sortie against another F-2 and an E-7 attacking you and you even destroyed one of them, but i guess i dont need to link the logs since you can remember it, even if you'll not post this kind of logs right? this gunners are hitting every time they can, and avoid being in the fire arc isnt a solution of the problem that the aiming is way too much accurate, that's only a work-around that makes the bomber survive in single sorties much more often then they should.

 

that's not even encouraging the teamwork and the communication between players on the same side.

Edited by Prancingkiller2

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6 minutes ago, Prancingkiller2 said:

Nope, most of the people on the server think exactly what i did wrote, and they could not be listened cause they dont wanna mess on the forum with people like you, waiting from morning to evening that somebody type something to reply with senseless rensponses, and btw, you have not been shot down by any fighter since 17 flights, and in the meantime you got a 109 F-2 with a single shot and you survived another sortie against another F-2 and an E-7 attacking you and you even destroyed one of them, but i guess i dont need to link the logs since you can remember it, even if you'll not post this kind of logs right? this gunners are hitting every time they can, and avoid being in the fire arc isnt a solution of the problem that the aiming is way too much accurate, that's only a work-around that makes the bomber survive in single sorties much more often then they should.

 

that's not even encouraging the teamwork and the communication between players on the same side.

Just your fantasies about teamwork. I fly perfectly in a team and cooperate, but even in spite of this, they regularly shoot me down.
Only pilots with a low skill complain about gunners.
And I would not argue with you if my gunners shot down every fighter who would try to attack me.
But unfortunately they shot down only the careless and impatient, and there are few of them. Good fighters shoot me down more often than I would like.
Stop already showing your powerlessness and complaining about the gunners.

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Nope, i see many Pe-2 going alone and coming back home safely, the reason why the people do that is because they feel so safe doing that and that's because 109's pilot with 1 life (or that wanna stay alive in general)  will most likely avoid even trying to attack them, i've seen that personally, i'm flying red and i've seen that happening many times. Bad things leads to bad habits.

that's also the reason why you didnt get shot down by fighter since 16 flights (regularly) and the last 2 engagements you even went back home safely with 2 AA kills.

Now, you only fly Pe-2 looking at your stats, and you dont know anything about fighter  (that's more then sure by the things you say..) so you've never seen the other side of the thing, i fly both and actually even Pe-2 so i know exactly what i'm talking about.

You are just a kid trying to defend your way to have fun abusing over powered things (maybe you should try something else like League of legends, might fit better for you)

I'm the kind of guy that if i find myself on the Pe-2 with a super aiming gunner im already reporting that to the admins because i feel it's completely wrong and not fun.

 

Edited by Prancingkiller2

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29 minutes ago, Prancingkiller2 said:

Nope, i see many Pe-2 going alone and coming back home safely, the reason why the people do that is because they feel so safe doing that and that's because 109's pilot with 1 life (or that wanna stay alive in general)  will most likely avoid even trying to attack them, i've seen that personally, i'm flying red and i've seen that happening many times. Bad things leads to bad habits.

that's also the reason why you didnt get shot down by fighter since 16 flights (regularly) and the last 2 engagements you even went back home safely with 2 AA kills.

Now, you only fly Pe-2 looking at your stats, and you dont know anything about fighter  (that's more then sure by the things you say..) so you've never seen the other side of the thing, i fly both and actually even Pe-2 so i know exactly what i'm talking about.

You are just a kid trying to defend your way to have fun abusing over powered things (maybe you should try something else like League of legends, might fit better for you)

I'm the kind of guy that if i find myself on the Pe-2 with a super aiming gunner im already reporting that to the admins because i feel it's completely wrong and not fun.

 

If you are a good fighter, then you would be glad when you see a lone bomber. Its present for you.
If you are not able to shoot down a lone bomber, then just go and train)

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2 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

If you are a good fighter, then you would be glad when you see a lone bomber. Its present for you.
If you are not able to shoot down a lone bomber, then just go and train)

you're just pretending to not understand what the problem is, trying to look even more dumb than how you actually are.. such a childish behaviour

 

i'll copy paste for you: 

You are just a kid trying to defend your way to have fun abusing over powered things (maybe you should try something else like League of legends, might fit better for you)

I'm the kind of guy that if i find myself on the Pe-2 with a super aiming gunner im already reporting that to the admins because i feel it's completely wrong and not fun.

Edited by Prancingkiller2

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28 minutes ago, Prancingkiller2 said:

you're just pretending to not understand what the problem is, trying to look even more dumb than how you actually are.. such a childish behaviour

 

i'll copy paste for you: 

You are just a kid trying to defend your way to have fun abusing over powered things (maybe you should try something else like League of legends, might fit better for you)

I'm the kind of guy that if i find myself on the Pe-2 with a super aiming gunner im already reporting that to the admins because i feel it's completely wrong and not fun.

Keep looking to justify your low skill, it's funny)

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2 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

Keep looking to justify your low skill, it's funny)

I think you just need to read everything again, because the problem is that clear that even one of your kind should understand..

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3 minutes ago, Prancingkiller2 said:

I think you just need to read everything again, because the problem is that clear that even one of your kind should understand..

You do not need to read anything else, everything is clear. You expressed your opinion, some of the participants responded to it.
If the server administration considers it necessary to change something because you don’t know how to shoot down bombers, they will do it.
But, I think that if it is important for them that as many bombers as possible fly on the server,
then they won’t change anything.

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5 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

You do not need to read anything else, everything is clear. You expressed your opinion, some of the participants responded to it.
If the server administration considers it necessary to change something because you don’t know how to shoot down bombers, they will do it.
But, I think that if it is important for them that as many bombers as possible fly on the server,
then they won’t change anything.

We'll see what's important, since that thing have been reported by many pilots, and it's defended by Pe-2 pilots who have all interests to keep It as it is.

Edited by Prancingkiller2

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33 minutes ago, Prancingkiller2 said:

We'll see what's important, since that thing have been reported by many pilots, and it's defended by Pe-2 pilots who have all interests to keep It as it is.

Pelots Pe2 know best how good pilots shoot down this plane. Pe2 pilots are very surprised that fighters with a weak skill, instead of training, are asked to lower the accuracy of gunners.
If you cannot become good enough in a game, then try to change its rules. Nice try, but I would say again - don't cry,
and go train and become stronger).

I hope that the administration will not change the rules because of the pitiful complaints of several inept players.

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Congratulations to all LW and VVS for very intense first 2 maps! And specially to VVS who focused in important tasks, and let us come back in map #2 from what it first looked as an almost imposible win. It was very close, so great victory!

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9 hours ago, =LG=Mad_Mikhael said:

Yes, in theory, properly attacking Pe-2 is easy, but in reality, it is more complicated. Patience means time, and in our virtual war scenario, you often don't have time to properly attack. It's even more difficult in the first maps since E-7 and F-2 are not much faster the Pe-2.

 

Most things are easy when you know how to do them, if in reality you don't apply that knowledge then you are back at square one and things get difficult again.

 

Patience for any hunter means survival. Victory or defeat in TAW as I understand it is not based on time, but attrition, so your comment makes no sense. What would you prefer, adding 5 minutes to your sortie to deprive your enemy of one bomber or cutting 5 minutes off your sortie to get shot down and deprive your side of a fighter?

 

If you are faster than the bomber you can shoot it down no problem. But only if you have the sense and the patience to first of all put yourself ahead of the bomber, so that when you attack you don't loose the speed of the bomber from your attack, but potentially add it to your attack.

 

Controversially, if you have no idea what you are doing and no patience to find out, you are almost sure to wind up behind the bomber and can subtract the bombers speed from your attack speed with the usual devastating suicidal results. Plenty of time to moan on the forum then, eh?

 

It's not rocket science ;) 

Edited by Pict
Spelling, tweaking etc.
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3 hours ago, Prancingkiller2 said:

 

You are just a kid trying to defend your way to have fun abusing over powered things (maybe you should try something else like League of legends, might fit better for you)

I'm the kind of guy that if i find myself on the Pe-2 with a super aiming gunner im already reporting that to the admins because i feel it's completely wrong and not fun.

 

When you calm down and look at what you wrote with calm mind, boy will you feel silly...

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40 minutes ago, Pict said:

 

 

You don't get my point. It's late and I don't want waste too much time for this, so no fancy sentences in proper english.

40 minutes ago, Pict said:

Patience for any hunter means survival. Victory or defeat in TAW as I understand it is not based on time, but attrition, so your comment makes no sense. What would you prefer, adding 5 minutes to your sortie to deprive your enemy of one bomber or cutting 5 minutes off your sortie to get shot down and deprive your side of a fighter?

 

If you are faster than the bomber you can shoot it down no problem. But only if you have the sense and the patience to first of all put yourself ahead of the bomber, so that when you

attack you don't loose the speed of the bomber from your attack, but potentially add it to your attack.

 

Controversially, if you have no idea what you are doing and no patience to find out, you are almost sure to wind up behind the bomber and can subtract the bombers speed from your attack speed with the usual devastating suicidal results. Plenty of time to moan on the forum then, eh?

 

It's not rocket science ;) 

In theory, yes. Practice? You are barely faster and in 5mins you are too late to attack Pe2 before bomb drop. Or after drop, you are chasing enemy deep in enemy territory. Or you have enemy fighters on you. If you put yourself ahead, attack from head on, gain again distance ahead of him, attack, repeat one more time, you are deep in enemy territory, over his strongpoint or airfield.

I did a lot of head on passes in this campaing against Pe-2. It's not working that well. Closing speed is very high, litle window to aim and open fire and if you score hits it's often not enough. And of course sometimes after passing bomber on head-on with 600km/h, while he is doing around 400km/h, gunner scores a hit 🤨

My point is. Yes, in theory your advice is good, but in practice, right now on TAW, not really. Frontline targets and airfields are too close together. Often there is no time for patience. Following your advice is leading to not attacking bombers at all, since you have no speed and time to put yourself ahead and attack from bomber 1/11.
But generaly I think people are getting to close to bombers. I've seen in my replays a lot of flying behind bomber and firing from 200m and closer. But again, easy to say, open fire from 500m and break off at 300m, harder to apply and scoring hits. But possible.

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i'd say you're all kids defending your mommy gunner because that's the only thing that keeps you alive lol, try flying with a human gunner that does not automatically spot enemies and does not hit instantly every time he can, i guess you'll not uh? just kids having fun here i guess..

2 hours ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

 

When you calm down and look at what you wrote with calm mind, boy will you feel silly...

that's exactly the correct definition, nothing more, nothing less man.. and im getting the same response i would get from a kid if i tried to take his best toy away from him 😂

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My squadron flew on the red side couple of TAWs ago. Not surprisingly, they won. When discussing about it with them, couple of things came up clearly.

Here it is, winning recipe for the red side:

 

1. You have to actually fly instead of complaining about the server bias and stuff on the forums.

 

2. Fly the Pe-2 a lot. And a little more. You take it, bomb, shoot some planes down and come home.

 

There you go :dance:

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7 hours ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

When you calm down and look at what you wrote with calm mind, boy will you feel silly...

Don't pay any attention to him. He looks like a little girl who decided to play hockey but found she couldn't skate. So she asks to remove the ice, sticks and pucks, and just run on the grass with the ball.Don't pay any attention to him. He looks like a little girl who decided to play hockey but found she couldn't skate. So she asks to remove the ice, sticks and pucks, and just run on the grass with the ball, because it's more fun ))

 

29 minutes ago, LLv24_Zami said:

Not surprisingly, they won.

The fight was very intense until the very last mission. The tennis side won through perseverance and organization, as well as the right choice of priorities. She managed to turn the tide of the battle also because at night and in the morning European time more red.

If you have long play on the TAW, you must remember, red team very rarely has won the map1 and a little more often map 2. Pe2 always one and the exact same, planeset have not changed. Can be the case in people, not only in the aircraft?

6 hours ago, =LG=Mad_Mikhael said:

Frontline targets and airfields are too close together. Often there is no time for patience.

You can disable nearby airfields and then the enemy will have to fly from afar. Everyone saw how it works on the last map.

Yesterday, when we were flying to bomb the airfield, we were intercepted halfway by a fighter. He didn't shoot us down, but he forced us to drop the bombs and return to base. If he had been a stupid and greedy pilot, he could have lost his life and his plane. But he just prevented us from completing the task. So the next time we went with a cover of fighters.

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26 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

Don't pay any attention to him. He looks like a little girl who decided to play hockey but found she couldn't skate. So she asks to remove the ice, sticks and pucks, and just run on the grass with the ball

You should tuck that in. Your sexism is showing a little. My AAA travel girl is toe dragging boys and going bar down weekly. She’ll never make the NHL but is tracking for elite amateur status as a 10yo.

 

#wheelsnipecelly

 

 

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38 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

 

The fight was very intense until the very last mission. The tennis side won through perseverance and organization, as well as the right choice of priorities. She managed to turn the tide of the battle also because at night and in the morning European time more red.

If you have long play on the TAW, you must remember, red team very rarely has won the map1 and a little more often map 2. Pe2 always one and the exact same, planeset have not changed. Can be the case in people, not only in the aircraft?

Red hasn't won first maps because they haven't been flying them. They've been focusing complaining how unfair the setup is.

 

I just said what impression that TAW gave us in all simplicity about the useful tactics.

 

People are flying the machines, true. In that case, maybe it's about people also when the blues win. Not the usual server bias 😉

Edited by LLv24_Zami

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