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Tactical Air War

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5 hours ago, StG77_HvB said:

Halfway through the campaign I found I had sufficient material for a video. It's refreshing to fly Blue after staying Red the better part of a year, and pleasant to fly some missions with people I had become accustomed to running from frequently. It has also reinforced the opinion that the Pe-2 is the Ground Attack aircraft 'par excellence' in terms of pilot survival.

Take a ride down the rabbit hole..... the colors...... the colors......

CONTENTS:

Down the Rabbit Hole - Hippie Heaven - Pig Be Trippin' - A Vicious Engagement - A Familiar Cast of Characters and some New Faces - Why Contact Fuzes are a Bad Idea - DYATLOVO AF; Devourer of Aircraft - and as always, Lots of Dead Tanks. Custom skins by StG77_Jeeves and szelljr. 

 

NSFW

1. Profanity

2. Bikinis

3. Custom skins show full swastikas.

 

 

1:42, I LOVE THIS!

Great video! Keep it up!!

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Posted (edited)

So I was looking at Cpt_Siddy's log this evening and he just showed the last 2 missions in a row on map #366 as being KILLED.  However, he is still showing 2.23 lives remaining.  How is this possible?  So if you start with 3.0 lives and are killed twice then you should be left with 1.0 life left, right?  What do I not understand with the lives system?

 

Edit: Okay, was given the answer based on a previous entry somewhere in this forum:

when he is in bigger team X when he is in smaller team where X = #smaller_team/#bigger_team. Example: Axis players: 28, Allied players: 20 so X for Allied is 20/28 = 0.71 [lives lost].

 

Edited by SCG_Limbo

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5 hours ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

Stick jerking is really a bad move when i am at 700kph :P

 

If you shake it more than once you're playing with yourself!

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Second time my ping got me kicked, I don't have bad connection, but sometimes for just few seconds (no more than 30-40)  my internet goes sloth and then keeps working as usual.
It happened to my in my first sortie on final, and I just had the same right now after a good mission few meter from my airfield AGAIN!
I was not damaged, neither attacked by bandits, simple and clean mission.
I don't have the chance (time) to fly very much and this thing is getting my stats way worse than I normally do, not feeling like helping my mates.
Is there any way to fix this problem? not talking about calling the internet provider but to just fix those sorties?

Thank you all.

 

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9 hours ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

 

This is normal levels of TAW balance here, not even bad. 

It seems that auto balance no longer works. There are a lot of blue ones and they are all in the air, and airfields are not even closed. And where is the turn to take off?

And right now you can’t log into the server

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Posted (edited)
1 час назад, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 сказал:

It seems that auto balance no longer works. There are a lot of blue ones and they are all in the air, and airfields are not even closed. And where is the turn to take off?

And right now you can’t log into the server

 

Balance system may not work for small amounts of players on server (it is 11 players now). 

Queue worked properly yesterday evening and all the time i was playing before.

I’m able to log in right now

12 часов назад, [TWB]Sketch сказал:

http://www.thewetbandits.org/smf/index.php?topic=285.0

 

Over the last seven days, there has been consistently more blue players.

I’d say the number of blue pilots remains quite stable, but last day much less red pilots online. There are should be a reason, but I don’t see any

Edited by WG_Magners

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Hi all.

 

Please Admin, consider minimun quorum. 

 

Is a bit sad, see how maps are lost with quorums like 10:3  , especially when map is on critical stage.

 

thx

 

:)

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15 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Tumu said:

Hi all.

 

Please Admin, consider minimun quorum. 

 

Is a bit sad, see how maps are lost with quorums like 10:3  , especially when map is on critical stage.

 

thx

 

:)


Not again^^. Nobody joins when a quorum is active

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7 minutes ago, DerSheriff said:

Not again^^. Nobody joins when a quorum is active

Then you should enter an automatic balance for a small number of players.
When you play 1 vs 11 it's not fair

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The problem I encountered is that a server starts with 10 russians and 20 LW's. The extra lufties that join in cannot spawn, and so there is effectively roughly 20 vs 10 in the air, which is arguably unbalanced but not roffelstomp one-sided.

However, then russians start to leave server, so it goes to smt like 20 vs 4, which is where the germans take huge leaps forward mapwise.

 

 

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It just doesn't make sense to play when opponents are 4 or 5 times bigger.
I'd rather spend my time on something else.
I really liked the game when there was a balance of players. There was a real and honest fight. Now it is not

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

It just doesn't make sense to play when opponents are 4 or 5 times bigger.
I'd rather spend my time on something else.
I really liked the game when there was a balance of players. There was a real and honest fight. Now it is not

 

I logged in to fly Blue and saw 2SS Lawyer1 was flying alone against I think 10-11 opponents, so I switched to Red to help him out. Not surprisingly we got bounced before getting lined up on the target. I don't blame guys for wanting to fly for the team they registered for, and I'm just as guilty as anybody for piling on sometimes. Neither do I blame guys who don't want to fly when their team is down to one AF; you're just asking for an ass stomp and I get that. The new balance mechanism has improved things a lot IMHO, but I can't think of a fix for a 10-11 vs. 1 situation that wouldn't make people scream bloody murder.

Edited by StG77_HvB
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HvB

Of course, no blame against any player  _)

Solution is minimum quorum i think

:)

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Tumu said:

Solution is minimum quorum i think

That was tried on Campaign 4, I think, back in 2016, and like Der Sheriff said, it was universally unpopular. If you look back on this thread to that time there are 2-3 pages of non-stop bitching about it.

Edited by StG77_HvB

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...  the task of admins isnt easy. For every decision allways will be a group claiming.

 

:)

 

Allways we can try be " democrats " but i know open this doors is a risk ..... I am ok if admins hold the power of decisions.

 

For reference i take the old ADW .

 

I think this is not a question about how many pages of claims we had or will be have. No needs start a battle of claims on forum.

 

The question is.... .  On theory , TAW is a competition betwen 2 teams but actually a team can win a map , practicaly playing alone.

Where is the competition here? 

 

:)

 

 

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2 hours ago, StG77_HvB said:

That was tried on Campaign 4, I think, back in 2016, and like Der Sheriff said, it was universally unpopular. If you look back on this thread to that time there are 2-3 pages of non-stop bitching about it.

I think the real balance system is good. You just need to make it start working when 5 or more players appear in one of the teams.
I mean the queue for the take-off and closure of airfields.
In my opinion this will be enough.

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Posted (edited)

Call reds to fly TAW. There is a plenty of them on WOL at US and SA peak. This kind of quorum is cowardice against western players cause they cant play EU time. I know why reds low numbers, most reds are turn and burners and prefer to fly WOL where they do not have to spend time and SA navigating. They Just want to do manoeuvres almost Impossible IRL whirlwinding without fatigue or g tolerance.

Make a call for reds flying wol.

Edited by =BLW=Tales
Correction

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Tales.

i Understand your point of view, but i cant agree. 

 

Unafortunally we dont live on a beutiful world where people simply helps to peoble when is required. For this reasson , society requires laws. In this case TAW need rules ;)

 

From my point of view, call reds to play something they dislike to play no have sense, no matter reassons for not want play. Maybe is because you and yours are the best pilots of the world  ;) or simply they no have enought level to fly or interest. Really i dont know. We are here for enjoy time. The only thing i really can do is simply, if i have time play , and trusth me i dont care to much quorums if i want to play.  Call reds for play is like wait from blues they no play because practically no have resistance. Solution is on rules. For that i adress to admins for a re-consideration.

 

About imposible maneuvors. I understand you too. On blue side you can find same kind of players.  New features anounced will be great for stop this crazy stile.

 

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TAW manual says depot buildings are counted as tanks in 3:1 ratio. Does it means for the team score they are counted like 9 destroyed buildings = 3 destroyed tanks? 

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Tumu said:

Tales.

i Understand your point of view, but i cant agree. 

 

Unafortunally we dont live on a beutiful world where people simply helps to peoble when is required. For this reasson , society requires laws. In this case TAW need rules ;)

 

From my point of view, call reds to play something they dislike to play no have sense, no matter reassons for not want play. Maybe is because you and yours are the best pilots of the world  ;) or simply they no have enought level to fly or interest. Really i dont know. We are here for enjoy time. The only thing i really can do is simply, if i have time play , and trusth me i dont care to much quorums if i want to play.  Call reds for play is like wait from blues they no play because practically no have resistance. Solution is on rules. For that i adress to admins for a re-consideration.

 

About imposible maneuvors. I understand you too. On blue side you can find same kind of players.  New features anounced will be great for stop this crazy stile.

 

I'm not so succesfull as fighter but I'm reaching more success as dive bomber/attacker. Pounding some ground targets and sometimes getting AK during sorties defending as a pack. Stuka, mainly, is slow but have huge lift. Turn and burn low and slow against a pack of 3-4 stukas on defensive circle is deadly.

Edited by =BLW=Tales
correct

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1 hour ago, =BLW=Tales said:

Call reds to fly TAW. There is a plenty of them on WOL at US and SA peak. This kind of quorum is cowardice against western players cause they cant play EU time. I know why reds low numbers, most reds are turn and burners and prefer to fly WOL where they do not have to spend time and SA navigating. They Just want to do manoeuvres almost Impossible IRL whirlwinding without fatigue or g tolerance.

Make a call for reds flying wol.

 

Cowardice? Why dont you fly reds then and help solve the problem?

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Riksen said:

 

Cowardice? Why dont you fly reds then and help solve the problem?

 

16 minutes ago, Riksen said:

 

Cowardice? Why dont you fly reds then and help solve the problem?

My squad flies blue. I like to fly as squad and team tactics. I like to help my squadmates and advice them to break when enemy closing fast and firing range and dont ask to fly straight only to be easier to me to make a kill. The success of my squad is my success. If i got 3 kills but my squad is shotdown, dead or captured is not success. I'm just stating that with such quorum players on US and SA time will not play since reds our time are most flying WoL.

Edited by =BLW=Tales
correct

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52 minutes ago, =BLW=Tales said:

 

My squad flies blue. I like to fly as squad and team tactics. I like to help my squadmates and advice them to break when enemy closing fast and firing range and dont ask to fly straight only to be easier to me to make a kill. The success of my squad is my success. If i got 3 kills but my squad is shotdown, dead or captured is not success. I'm just stating that with such quorum players on US and SA time will not play since reds our time are most flying WoL.

 

I understand your preference for flying blue and I resort your decision bUT you have to understand there are more LW players overall in the IL-2 community than VVS players. This is specially true for the US prime time. There are some campaigns in which some squadrons switch sides and this often helps balance US prime time hours but when this doesnt happen the balance is affected. What the admins of TAW have created is an attempt to maintain the overall gameplay balance of the campaign to offset times when the balance is off like we see in the US prime time and not an coward attack or attempt to affect only LW players. It is meant as mechanism to keep it fair. If you decide to fly exclusively blue as you stated, which is fine, you have to acknowledge there will be most likely more of you than VVS players when such scenarios happen in a campaign and the balancer will kick in to keep things fair. If you dont like that, then Im afraid you either have to wait your turn to join or fly VVS where, btw, you can also help your squadmates, advice then to break, and be successful together.

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31 minutes ago, Riksen said:

 

I understand your preference for flying blue and I resort your decision bUT you have to understand there are more LW players overall in the IL-2 community than VVS players. This is specially true for the US prime time. There are some campaigns in which some squadrons switch sides and this often helps balance US prime time hours but when this doesnt happen the balance is affected. What the admins of TAW have created is an attempt to maintain the overall gameplay balance of the campaign to offset times when the balance is off like we see in the US prime time and not an coward attack or attempt to affect only LW players. It is meant as mechanism to keep it fair. If you decide to fly exclusively blue as you stated, which is fine, you have to acknowledge there will be most likely more of you than VVS players when such scenarios happen in a campaign and the balancer will kick in to keep things fair. If you dont like that, then Im afraid you either have to wait your turn to join or fly VVS where, btw, you can also help your squadmates, advice then to break, and be successful together.

And just to add to this, there really is no 'cowardice' possible here. There are no real-life consequences to dying in TAW, and there are no commanding officers who are going to have you shot for not flying missions. It's a video game. People play when they have time and when they find it to be fun and engaging.

TAW, as a server, has a lot of incentives to value your virtual life (medals for streaks, awards for campaigns, a limit on lives per map) and your planes (having limited numbers of aircraft and making it harder to get access to good aircraft). It also incentivizes you to get into combat with the CM system. TAW also has barriers to entry such as registration to limit trolls who don't care about the game and are just there to goof off.

All of this makes players more likely to fly smarter and take less unnecessary risks. This is what people want - a competitive server where people don't do stupid things or make unrealistic suicidal attacks. This is great! Right?

Except no incentive is given to fly missions where you are almost guaranteed to die or be captured. All the incentives go the other way - if the numbers are stacked like crazy and you value your online life and planeset, your smart move is to simply not fly. 

Combine all these incentives with the fact that getting repeatedly shot down when you have no chance to realistically fight back can be extremely frustrating, and you have a recipe for people not playing, simply because they don't find it to be fun. 

VVS players aren't 'cowards' for not wanting to throw themselves into the jaws of the Luftwaffe  when outnumbered three or four or even ten to one. They're responding to the incentives of TAW in exactly the way you'd expect. Making it out like there's some kind of lack of moral fibre among VVS flyers is missing the entire point. 






 

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Posted (edited)

Ok. But very strict quorum rules can be a server killer for US and South America timezone. If with today rules people get frustrated cause cant fly and  then jump to WoL, so with more strict rules they will vanish. How we can donate to server? Maybe server owners should offer (from donations) a few modules or prize to best ranked reds on US and SA timezone at end of war as an incentive. :)

Edited by =BLW=Tales

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Last evening it was 14-2. I jumped in the server without looking at the player numbers, only to load the map and sigh. 

Came back in the server using my Red account - only to have to wait 10 minutes to spawn. More heavy sighing. 

 

I think at the very least this wait time should be significantly reduced, especially if we're going to keep seeing a lack of players on one particular side. What's worse than not flying your top choice for that day? Having to wait 10 minutes staring at a timer because you're actually doing the right thing. 

 

It's pretty obvious by now who the major factors are responsible for this situation. To be fair, they're well within their right to only fly for one side - this is just a video game. But to knowingly do that and then come in the thread and complain about the situation because it makes it less enjoyable for him? That's some serious cojones. 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, =BLW=Tales said:

Ok. But very strict quorum rules can be a server killer for US and South America timezone. If with today rules people get frustrated cause cant fly and so jump to WoL if rules about quorum becomes more strict so US and SA timezones will cant play.

 

You are correct. It can but not necessarily the admins fault. The solution will always rest with the players themselves. If you are not willing to play for the other team and every single campaign you choose to play for the outnumbering side, I'm sorry to say but you are the issue. The TAW admins are trying their best to accomodate everyone and still make it a fair campaign and perhaps there is more that can be done like Redkestrel suggested but, in the end, the solution rests within the player base we have.

 

3 minutes ago, StG77_Kondor said:

Last evening it was 14-2. I jumped in the server without looking at the player numbers, only to load the map and sigh. 

Came back in the server using my Red account - only to have to wait 10 minutes to spawn. More heavy sighing. 

 

I think at the very least this wait time should be significantly reduced, especially if we're going to keep seeing a lack of players on one particular side. What's worse than not flying your top choice for that day? Having to wait 10 minutes staring at a timer because you're actually doing the right thing. 

 

It's pretty obvious by now who the major factors are responsible for this situation. To be fair, they're well within their right to only fly for one side - this is just a video game. But to knowingly do that and then come in the thread and complain about the situation because it makes it less enjoyable for him? That's some serious cojones. 

 

Precisely.

Edited by Riksen
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Posted (edited)

It would be nice if owners open a patron account so use the incomings to give prizes (certificates, badges, collector planes for the best ranked/streak players). Most prizes to the side heavily outnumbered. I would contribute with U$20 myself since i want to play. The better way to do is creating separate bomber, fighter and attack categories with separate lives for each one. The player should be flying a squad (separate squads) for bomber, another for fighter, another for attacker. One life each. Calculating rank based on the average of ones streaks or using the average of the 3 best streaks. For attackers and bombers ground streak should be basis, AK streak is to eliminate a tie. The inverse for fighters. I am being constructive so we can have a better server. I do not believe strict quorum rules is a way, we should be thinking in ways to incentive people to come and fly the correct way and not by preventig them to fly.

Edited by =BLW=Tales

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, =BLW=Tales said:

It would be nice if owners open a patron account so use the incomings to give prizes (certificates, badges, collector planes for the best ranked/streak players). Most prizes to the side heavily outnumbered. I would contribute with U$20 myself since i want to play. The better way to do is creating separate bomber, fighter and attack categories with separate lives for each one. The player should be flying a squad (separate squads) for bomber, another for fighter, another for attacker. One life each. Calculating rank based on the average of ones streaks. For attackers and bombers ground streak should be basis, AK streak is to eliminate a tie. The inverse for fighters. I am being constructive so we can have a better server. I do not believe strict quorum rules is a way, we should be thinking in ways to incentive people to come and fly the correct way and not by preventig them to fly.


There are already people who have gone out of their way to find ways to cheat and bend the rules so they could be on the front page with tons of medals or to help one side win. Introducing money to the equation is a bad horrible idea. 

 

The way to attract more consistent players is to not view the other side as a means to get medals and awards. And maybe, just maybe, more people would fly if they knew that the pilot on the other side would be willing to fly with your team if the numbers were not balanced; instead of demanding that players from other servers join to fly because they are just 'turn and burners'. 

Edited by StG77_Kondor
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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, StG77_Kondor said:


There are already people who have gone out of their way to find ways to cheat and bend the rules so they could be on the front page with tons of medals or to help one side win. Introducing money to the equation is a bad horrible idea. 

 

The way to attract more consistent players is to not view the other side as a means to get medals and awards. And maybe, just maybe, more people would fly if they knew that the pilot on the other side would be willing to fly with your team if the numbers were not balanced; instead of demanding that players from other servers join to fly because they are just 'turn and burners'. 

I fly blue because is easy to get in comms when my squad mates are flying. Since they fly blue i fly with them. Its difficult to get in comms with another squads or people on US timezone. TAW TS only have a bunch of players at EU timezone. IL2 Official TS and others are completely empty at US timezones. I do not know where this guys are flying. When you ask where people are getting on comms on chat, complete silence. Ok. They want to fly alone with their mates. So I will fly with those and side of i can get in comms. It not pleasant to fly alone or using team chat.

Add more targets so the side outnumbered have more options to bombing missions so they can evade and will be more difficult to the greater side to cover all locations. Nonethless we are trying, most of time, to bomb. Why they want to face the greater side on fighters face to face? Since we are bombing they can go and bomb completely safe another place. snot my vault if a red jumps on a fighter and want to jump between 3-4-5 enemies bombing. They think a bunch of stukas or 110 are defenseless? Most of blue on US timezone are bombing since its ridiculous to get a fighter on an empty server. The map is big if you plan right you can go there almost undected. At US timezones there is no more than 10 blue average, most bombers/attackers, it is impossible to with these numbers to cover the map and break red from bombing undetected.

Edited by =BLW=Tales
correction

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As a person who doesn't fly TAW, or at least hasn't for a good long while now, I feel I can add to this discussion. To put it simply and directly, I don't fly TAW because I don't see that there is much point in my doing so. When I come online there are significantly more Blue than Red on. I don't want to add to, what I see as, the biggest problem in the multiplayer aspect of the game so I'd end up flying Red; this is not unique to TAW but generally true on all servers most of the time. It is worse on TAW due to the limitations and constraints placed on players in the forms of aircraft and now life limits. Why would I throw myself into a situation where I A) Have limited resources and B) Have little real opportunity to affect the mission situation as there are 3, 4 or sometimes 10 other players opposing me. Further condition B compounds condition A as the only way to effectively generate more planes for my use is to have mission success that is unlikely due to condition B. The most likely scenario I'd find myself in flying on the Red team is a desperate last stand, a kind of Alamo. Desperate last stands can be fun. When it is the norm, though it isn't fun. It is tedious. I can't imagine it is much more fun knowing that the battle is a forgone conclusion, either. That is it. It isn't because I can't 'turn and burn like a WOL noob'. You can do that on TAW. It is because there is no point. It is like a Globetrotters' game and I just can't be asked to play the role of the Washington Generals for the sake of your entertainment. It would seem I'm not alone in that.

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26 minutes ago, =BLW=Tales said:

I fly blue because is easy to get in comms when my squad mates are flying. Since they fly blue i fly with them. Its difficult to get in comms with another squads or people on US timezone. TAW TS only have a bunch of players at EU timezone. IL2 Official TS and others are completely empty at US timezones. I do not know where this guys are flying. When you ask where people are getting on comms on chat, complete silence. Ok. They want to fly alone with their mates. So I will fly with those and side of i can get in comms. It not pleasant to fly alone or using team chat.

Add more targets so the side outnumbered have more options to bombing missions so they can evade and will be more difficult to the greater side to cover all locations. Nonethless we are trying, most of time, to bomb. Why they want to face the greater side on fighters face to face? Since we are bombing they can go and bomb completely safe another place. snot my vault if a red jumps on a fighter and want to jump between 3-4-5 enemies bombing. They think a bunch of stukas or 110 are defenseless? Most of blue on US timezone are bombing since its ridiculous to get a fighter on an empty server. The map is big if you plan right you can go there almost undected. At US timezones there is no more than 10 blue average, most bombers/attackers, it is impossible to with these numbers to cover the map and break red from bombing undetected.

The problem is not that the reds are afraid of the blue. The problem is that TAW is a server where two teams compete. The purpose of all this is your victory on the map and in the war.
I can not repel the attack on my airfield when there are 10 blue, but only 1.
No matter how bravely I fly it is simply unrealistic.
It turns out that there is no competition in the skill of the pilots of the teams,
and competition in the number of players.
Is it interesting for you to play when you have no opponents?
You are neither better nor bolder. You are simply more. That's all your virtues.

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Posted (edited)

If reds continue to think like that: I will not fly cause outnumbered they will continue outnumbered. Have you heard about local superiority instead superiority itself. Call your friends, fly together, go to same place, attack together and get out. One advantage of taw is no icon. So Blue to get there will take time to locate themselves, gather and navigate there. Instead of that on wol someone writes "they are xyze". All press O, see icon, add power and reach there in no time, degenarating on huge furball.

Five person at same place can do better than a bunch of spread on the map.

Icons on give less margin to work local superiority concept.

Icons on give less margin to work local superiority concept. 

I would fly even If outnumbered If with 3 ir more pack. Im on vacation but i cant findo mates at EU timezone. Maybe i should join an EU group for a period. You guys should come out from your cave for public TS hehehe

Edited by =BLW=Tales
Coorect

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23 minutes ago, =BLW=Tales said:

If reds continue to think like that: I will not fly cause outnumbered they will continue outnumbered. Have you heard about local superiority instead superiority itself. Call your friends, fly together, go to same place, attack together and get out. One advantage of taw is no icon. So Blue to get there will take time to locate themselves, gather and navigate there. Instead of that on wol someone writes "they are xyze". All press O, see icon, add power and reach there in no time, degenarating on huge furball.

Five person at same place can do better than a bunch of spread on the map.

Icons on give less margin to work local superiority concept.

Icons on give less margin to work local superiority concept. 

I would fly even If outnumbered If with 3 ir more pack. Im on vacation but i cant findo mates at EU timezone. Maybe i should join an EU group for a period. You guys should come out from your cave for public TS hehehe

You win in your time zone only because there are more of you. There is no valor in this. You are offered to make the game fair. Fight with equal numbers. Achieve victory honestly.

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Posted (edited)

I AM saying i would fly outnumbered If i find mates att EU time. I understand general numbers equal in servers but even equal numbers i would manage to have local superiority, energy advantage, strike and run, fight on my own terms. War is not to be fair is about tactical and strategy. If you are outnumbered manage a plan to counter. Two or three maps before we were being cornered but we took off decide to vanish the last red tanks. (We were without tanks). We lost but we tried. TAW is amazing server since they do not have unrealistic features that turns strategy and tactical decisions in vain.

Edited by =BLW=Tales

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