Jump to content
=LG=Kathon

Tactical Air War

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, =BLW=Tales said:

We should primarly use 37mm Cannon.

 

Bad conclusion. Please use x3 250kg bombs. You need only 120 seconds to destroy 3 tanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Norz said:

 

Bad conclusion. Please use x3 250kg bombs. You need only 120 seconds to destroy 3 tanks.

Yes but in case of moving and spreading  off roads units changing directions requires more precision using bombs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Norz said:

Are you so lazy to scroll 9 pages?

 

Ok, now how many of these 497 users are russian and how many are german?

 

Get back to me next week with your results, thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Tony_Kito said:

 

Ok, now how many of these 497 users are russian and how many are german?

 

Get back to me next week with your results, thanks.

 

It was my question to you. Sorry, but I do not like to do your work.

57 minutes ago, Norz said:

I hope you can calculate the number of the players with 0 hours on your own.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Norz said:

 

It was my question to you. Sorry, but I do not like to do your work.

 

You're asking him to present evidence that would back up your point? How does that work?

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Norz said:

 

Bad conclusion. Please use x3 250kg bombs. You need only 120 seconds to destroy 3 tanks.

Yes but in case of moving and spreading  off roads units changing directions requires more precision using bombs.

Yes the balance feature should use total hours played as source cause registered users is not active users

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, /top_lad/CaptainJack said:

You're asking him to present evidence that would back up your point? How does that work?

 

He wrote

 

"By the way, you're not taking into account the fact that the USSR team has 889 registered users, while the Luftwaffe has 1163.

So proportionately, USSR players fly more attackers than LW ones, so your argument is basically null."

 

Unfortunatelly it is not possible to discuss it without right numbers. So, my quesion is: how many players did something (specially with the ground targets)? I think that the TOP 200 is enough to make some conclusions. If you want, we can discuss it with TOP 400 or TOP 500. But definatly not with the number of the registered players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Norz said:

 

He wrote

 

"By the way, you're not taking into account the fact that the USSR team has 889 registered users, while the Luftwaffe has 1163.

So proportionately, USSR players fly more attackers than LW ones, so your argument is basically null."

 

Unfortunatelly it is not possible to discuss it without right numbers. So, my quesion is: how many players did something (specially with the ground targets)? I think that the TOP 200 is enough to make some conclusions. If you want, we can discuss it with TOP 400 or TOP 500. But definatly not with the number of the registered players.

You're trying to use the data to prove him wrong but you're asking him to provide it though. That isn't how it works.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Norz said:

Unfortunatelly it is not possible to discuss it without right numbers.

 

This is some BS excuse to just stall and waste my time, and I'm not falling for it. No one is.

 

You lost. Take the L and just guide yourself to the nearest exit. This ain't russian bias, this ain't Pe-2 laser gunners, this ain't any of your fantasies for why the germans lost the last round. It's plain and simple: Fighters keep flying at 8k meters doing imaginary CAP while the russians have wave after wave of Peshkas pounding away on your ground targets. With an advantage of roughly 300 players (though admittedly, yes there are those who didn't fly) you can only muster 8 more ground attackers in the Top 200 than the russians.

 

Stop jerking yourself off and face the facts.

  • Haha 4
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Norz said:

 

LOL.

 

Please, can someone explain this person what is the contrail?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail

He's making a sarcastic jab at the fact that German fighters often just climb to space and then complain when they can't see the attackers who are on the deck, I don't understand how the post indicates he has no idea what a contrail is

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Tony_Kito said:

 

Is that your comeback?

 

Please send us a picture with a lot of contrails in the TAW mission. I hope now you know what is that and you can check the attitute to get it. Do not forget about your "8k".

Edited by Norz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salutations,

 

Always keep in mind that this is just a game😑

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Devs please use hours played as balance feature. It should adjust troughout the map. Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Norz said:

Please send us a picture with a lot of contrails in the TAW mission. I hope now you know what is that and you can check the attitute to get it.


Speak english please.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Tony_Kito said:


Speak english please.

Do you known automated correction feature? You are offensive and poor of appointments.

You say that you have better things to do but you are still here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, =BLW=Tales said:

Do you known automated correction feature? You are offensive and poor of appointments.

You say that you have better things to do but you are still here.

what did he mean by this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Norz said:

 

It was my question to you. Sorry, but I do not like to do your work.

 

 Haha what a troll 🤣

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, /top_lad/CaptainJack said:

 the post indicates he has no idea what a contrail is

For the person who see no difference between 300 and  500 players everything is possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Norz said:

For the person who see no difference between 300 and  500 players everything is possible.

You're not even making a coherent point, Please go be a troll elsewhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, /top_lad/CaptainJack said:

You're not even making a coherent point, Please go be a troll elsewhere.

 

Sorry, can I see your stat for this round? Maybe you cannot read, but it is the  topic about the TAW project. 

Edited by Norz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Norz said:

 

Only one question. Is it really so hard to open the "Statistics" page, sort it by Ground Targets and score the number of red and blue players?

 

Ok, I did it for you.

 

TOP 200: 96 reds, 104 blue.

 

Not sure how this is relevant.  I was going off previous round stats provided by LG where it showed the number of sorties by aircraft type, showing that Reds flew a lot more sorties with Pe-2’s and to a lesser degree I’ll-2’s vs Blues flying Bf-110’s and to a lesser degree Ju-88s.  What you are talking about above shows ground units of all types destroyed, not just those that are in tank columns.  Nor does it show what types of aircraft all these pilots flew.

 

5 hours ago, Norz said:

 

Based on the statistics.

 

Please make the mission with 10 tanks and we will score how much time do I need to kill them with Pe2 and you with Bf 110.

 

Well, I’d be flying the Ju-88 more with its superior (to the Pe-2) bomb load, first of all :) ... and I’m fairly confident I’d wipe out 10 tanks in a Ju-88 faster than a Pe-2.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Norz said:

It is exactly why the 104 players in TOP 200 (Ground targets) are blue playes, right? 

Why take as much as the TOP-200 GK? In my opinion, it's enough to look at the TOP-25 GK. In it, 10 blue pilots destroyed approximately 5650 GKs and 15 red pilots destroyed almost 7100 GKs.
Just what can these numbers tell us? GK is not only tanks, but also buildings, cars, static aircraft, cars, anti-aircraft guns.
For example, I now have 816 GKs, but only 36 of them are tanks and this is for all three maps.
Your statistics do not tell us absolutely nothing about the causes of the defeat of the blue on the third map.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, AKA_Relent said:

Well, I’d be flying the Ju-88 more with its superior (to the Pe-2) bomb load, first of all :) ... and I’m fairly confident I’d wipe out 10 tanks in a Ju-88 faster than a Pe-2.

 

No problem. Please send me the map (mission) with the tank column (the same conditions as on the TAW server, the same level of the AAAs). You will see that you are wrong.

26 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

Why take as much as the TOP-200 GK?

 

To show that there are no difference at all between the red and blue players. I mean it is a wrong point to say that one team is more focused on the ground targets than another one.

Edited by Norz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would just like to say I have been very much enjoying this TAW campaign. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, [_FLAPS_]Diggun said:

I would just like to say I have been very much enjoying this TAW campaign. 

 

Blasphemy! How dare you voice enjoying the TAW campaign. 😁

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Norz said:

To show that there are no difference at all between the red and blue players. I mean it is a wrong point to say that one team is more focused on the ground targets than another one.

You can destroy ground targets, but you can destroy the "correct" ground targets. The effect will be completely different.
I have seen many times why for some reason defensive positions were bombed while the tank column was already destroyed. I am sure that these guys have a lot of killed ground targets, but the sense in destroying these goals is not very big.

The mere amount of ground targets destroyed means absolutely nothing.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

The mere amount of ground targets destroyed means absolutely nothing.

 

Was it possible to win on the map #3 with the x2 more ground targets as the red team had? I am 100% positive. I hope you understand the difference between my point of view and your "amount of ground targets destroyed means absolutely nothing"

Edited by Norz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Norz said:

Was it possible to win on the map #3 with the x2 more ground targets as the red team had? I am 100% positive

This is not at all obvious. There are secondary ground targets, the destruction of which brings victory a little.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Pict said:

 

This "idea" that the Pe-2 is "OP" (over powered is my best guess) as a guy @gemanuel1 who just tried to shoot me down in my Pe-2 with his 109F-4 claimed in the chat on the last mission of map#3, is a silly idea.

 

This fellow who had just shot down an IL2, attacked me and hit me a few times, then sat on my 6 o'clock until my AI gunners shot him down. He sat there for over 12 seconds, all the while his plane and pilot were taking damage and one of my AI gunners even reported that he ran out of ammo :rofl: , then claimed in the chat that the Pe-2 AI gunners have this magical one hit kill ability :wacko:

 

Just look at the log and you can see he had plenty of time to evade or even head home, but he just sat here taking hits for 12 seconds plus!

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=47745&name=Pict

 

 

You evidently don't know how to read stats correctly then my friend.  Let me explain some important parts you fail to realize (I'll just cut to the times of critical events).  Sorry PICT taken from your stats so you know it's right.
First attack entitlement 22.08.2019 11:36:01 DAMAGED 0.01% BF109 F-4 Plane gemanuel1 

Pilot Gemanuel1 was damaged by PE2 rear gunner before reaching firing range for the F4 weapons.

 

Second attack entitlement 22.08.2019 11:36:59  WAS DAMAGED 0.19% BF109 F-4 Plane gemanuel1

Meaning Pilot Gemanuel1 flew for almost 1 full second (.97 seconds mathematically) sustaining .65% damage before landing a first round causing 0.19% damage to PE2

 

Third attack entitlement 22.08.2019 11:37:55  DAMAGED 0.42% BF109 F-4 Plane gemanuel1 

The AI super sniper tailgunner of PE2 hits pilot Gemanuel1 

 

Fourth attack entitlement 22.08.2019 11:37:56  DAMAGED 0.07% BOT PILOT F-4 Plane gemanuel1 

Now just in case you didn't know BOT PILOT means the pilot is dead and his sortie has ended.  29 contact hits from SAE3 to SAE4 in .01 seconds meaning the AI can fire 174,000 Rounds per minute or 2,900 rounds per second. Since the PE2 is hoisting around what is basically the 50cal BMG the cyclic rate should only be 450-600 Rounds per minute or 10 rounds per second (After checking facts 17 rounds per second for the Berezin).  So not only is he a super sniper but he hoists a  (inaccurate description to follow)50cal that can shoot 5 times faster than a modern 50 cal( back to real life).  So we have Ivan with a Vulcan sitting in the Tail now. (Yes that was sarcasm)

 

EDIT: just to be accurate the tail gunner caused 68 damage reports in the death to the pilot.  Again a Berezin that IRL fires 17 rounds per second hit the pilot 68 time in 1/100 of a second. 

Second EDIT: Gemanuel1 plane crashed at 22.08.2019 11:38:23. so your gunner was firing at dead air if it fired for 12 seconds

Third EDIT:  Damn I'm finding all sorts of stuff about the 12.7 Berezin.  It's a bit faster than I had originally thought but still far below what happens in this game. And as for wielding around that much weight accurately wow not only were they super snipers they were champion athletes in weight training events.

Mass 21.5 kilograms (47.4 lb)

Cartridge 12.7×108mm
Action Gas
Rate of fire 800–1050 RPM
Muzzle velocity 814 m/s (2,670 ft/s)
Feed system Belt-fed
Sights Iron sights

Accuracy with this type of recoil????

 

From the time the German pilot Gemanuel1 attacked and was hit with the first round he was dead 01:55 (less than two) seconds later.

German pilot Gemanuel1 caused 4.33% damage to the PE2 before he was killed and sent packing with a death in the stats page.

This is just another reason for all manned positions in aircraft, should be just that, Manned and not AI controlled.  If I was killed by another player because they were a damn good shot with that 12.7mm Berezin tail gun then I couldn't say anything.  But when the AI controls the accuracy of the weapon then it's no longer a fair game.  Let us German pilots fly PE2s also. 

Next time around TAW please turn off the AI completely.  I'll even take a vulture or two buzzing an airfield because they have no AI to fly through.  If I wanted to just fight computers then I'd be off playing StarCraft2.

 

Edited by JG51_Ogg
fixing a fact
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Norz said:

 

Was it possible to win on the map #3 with the x2 more ground targets as the red team had? I am 100% positive. I hope you understand the difference between my point of view and your "amount of ground targets destroyed means absolutely nothing"

In theory you could destroy ten times the ground targets as the other side, but if the other side is constantly killing your tanks and you are not killing their tanks, their tanks will capture your cities and drive you off the map. 

As an example, if the VVS hammers the defenses of every city possible and destroys them completely, it won't mean a thing if their tank columns get wiped out and the enemy tank columns advance unharmed. 

It is possible to attain victory over your opponent while suffering vastly more casualties and lost materiel. For reference...see the Eastern Front of WWII. 

The Axis ran out of tanks before the VVS did last map, and the Soviet tank counteroffensive wasn't blunted sufficiently by the Luftwaffe. That's it, there's no magic there. If the Axis had 50 or 100 more tanks they probably would have won the last map. What the Luftwaffe needed to do when they ran out of tanks was to hammer Soviet tank columns until they ran out of tanks, or blitz the remaining soviet airfields to close them before the soviets could counterattack. Or both, really. Often the numbers are sufficient that it would be possible to do both

Axis strength lies in superior fighters and level bombers that can carry heavier loadouts, and in having the ability to capture territory via paratrooper. VVS strength lies in superior tank-killing aircraft and ...well, really that's it, the fighters are worse performing and the bombers available carry smaller loadouts than their axis counterparts, at least until the A20 appears.

Map #3 was decided by tanks. Aircraft losses and ground target losses were roughly the same, pilot losses were higher for the Luftwaffe but never came close to being the deciding factor (as was true for Map #1 and Map #2).
 

As far as the Pe-2 goes...when I fly the Pe-2, and I am intercepted by fighters, my survival rate is 0% (EDIT: somewhere between 20 and 40%, depending on if you count landing in three pieces beside the runway survival, and one time where a 110 hit me with his tail gunner). The survival rate of fighters attacking me in this campaign is 84% (yes, I went back and did the math) (EDIT: Actually more like 90%!). The single fighter my gunners killed was an E-7 that hung around on my tail for 17 seconds straight (EDIT - 16 seconds for those counting) - and it felt much longer than that. 

But in 75% of my Pe-2 sorties I encountered no fighter opposition whatsoever, and on repeat attacks on targets the flak is usually damaged or gone. So realistically, I could fly without any gunner protection whatsoever, and most of the time it wouldn't matter, I was just bomb trucking. The Pe-2s supposed strengths don't come into play, in fact its hampered by its anemic bomb load compared to contemporaries.



 

Edited by RedKestrel
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

IAs far as the Pe-2 goes...when I fly the Pe-2, and I am intercepted by fighters, my survival rate is 0%. The survival rate of fighters attacking me in this campaign is 84% (yes, I went back and did the math). The single fighter my gunners killed was an E-7 that hung around on my tail for 17 seconds straight - and it felt much longer than that. 
 

 

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=42889&name=RedKestrel

 

Did you get home? As I can see, you did. So, what did you say....0%?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, JG51_Ogg said:

You evidently don't know how to read stats correctly then my friend.  Let me explain some important parts you fail to realize (I'll just cut to the times of critical events).  Sorry PICT taken from your stats so you know it's right.

 

You can chop the stats up to suit your argument and call me your friend when you actually accuse me of being stupid or even telling lies, all the while having the nerve to apologize for being right :rolleyes: but that doesn't change what happened, nor how it was recorded in the log, nor how I said it above.

 

He sat there for over 12 seconds and paid the price for that. Hardly surprising when you look at his overall performance up to that point, as it's a beginners mistake to sit on a bombers 6 o'clock for 2 seconds, let alone 12.

 

If you really think the Pe-2 AI gunners are not correct and "can fire 174,000 Rounds per minute" you should address that complaint with the developer not me. See how go there with your quasi arithmetic :wacko:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, JG51_Ogg said:

EDIT: just to be accurate the tail gunner caused 68 damage reports in the death to the pilot.  Again a Berezin that IRL fires 17 rounds per second hit the pilot 68 time in 1/100 of a second. 

Defensive armament Pe-2 35 ser.:

Top: 7.62mm machine gun "ShKAS", 750 rounds, 1800 rounds per minute

Belly: 12.7mm machine gun "UB", 200 rounds, 1000 rounds per minute

Side: 7.62mm machine gun "ShKAS", 225 rounds, 1800 rounds per minute

 

It seems to me that you summarize the hits on the plane and the pilots, although it is possible the same bullet

First, a bullet pierces the plane, and then it hits the pilot

I understand how annoying it is to be killed by an AI shooter. But I hope you do not ask to remove anti-aircraft guns from the game?
I would suggest not taking into account in the pilot’s statistics the air kills that were received by his gunners. It’s all the same to me as a bomber pilot who shoots down a fighter attacking me. I do not boast of such kills.
It is reasonable to award an AK only if the player himself controlled the gunner. This is the only change I would ask for.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Norz said:

 

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=42889&name=RedKestrel

 

Did you get home? As I can see, you did. So, what did you say....0%?

Oh yeah, that one! I missed that sortie. I crashed near the airfield, there's no way that one should have counted as a landing, my plane was in more than three pieces when I came to a stop. That plane was toast. Both engines were shot to hell, I was leaking fuel from six places, my pitch control was gone, and when I dropped my gear only one wheel went down (and my left engine died on final). The guy who attacked me should have gotten credit for the kill, the damage he did was fatal. I had assumed he had, the game noted me as "shot down".

Two 109F-4s attacked me on that sortie, neither of them were destroyed by my gunners or even significantly harmed (and one of the guys attacked another Pe-2 Ser. 87 in the same sortie, and landed safely later on).

So the survival rate for fighters attacking me is almost 90%, and the one guy I did manage to kill made a very long dead-six on me. See the 109E-7 here:

https://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=8805&name=RedKestrel

His attack starts at 2:55:51 and he peppers me with LMG fire until 2:56:07 (16 seconds!) before ANY of my gunners FINALLY manage to hit him (though he killed my gunner shortly afterward). 

The "Sniper AI" is completely random and a problem with all flak and all rear gunners. Regardless of setting or gun the gunners sometimes make impossible or absurd shots, the Pe-2 just has a good FOV for the tail gunner and, in the 87, the best HMG in the game mounted in the back. I'm sure at some point they'll fix the absurdity of some of the gunners, but lets not pretend that there aren't absolute dud gunners too. If there weren't, my gunners would be more useful.
 

2 hours ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

Defensive armament Pe-2 35 ser.:

Top: 7.62mm machine gun "ShKAS", 750 rounds, 1800 rounds per minute

Belly: 12.7mm machine gun "UB", 200 rounds, 1000 rounds per minute

Side: 7.62mm machine gun "ShKAS", 225 rounds, 1800 rounds per minute

 

It seems to me that you summarize the hits on the plane and the pilots, although it is possible the same bullet

First, a bullet pierces the plane, and then it hits the pilot

And the 12.7mm has some explosive rounds to it, so the fragments may count for individual damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Pict said:

 

You can chop the stats up to suit your argument and call me your friend when you actually accuse me of being stupid or even telling lies, all the while having the nerve to apologize for being right :rolleyes: but that doesn't change what happened, nor how it was recorded in the log, nor how I said it above.

 

He sat there for over 12 seconds and paid the price for that. Hardly surprising when you look at his overall performance up to that point, as it's a beginners mistake to sit on a bombers 6 o'clock for 2 seconds, let alone 12.

 

If you really think the Pe-2 AI gunners are not correct and "can fire 174,000 Rounds per minute" you should address that complaint with the developer not me. See how go there with your quasi arithmetic :wacko:

I didn't "CHOP THEM UP" to suit my needs.  I simply changed what was 637 lines (yes I counted them to be accurate) of damage to 4 critical events that happen to coincide with critical hits to both you and Gemanuel1.  Now if you'd like we can go back and ask TAW for the specific coding to be pulled and shown of the hits and what pieces of each aircraft were hit with what bullet (or Fragment since @RedKestrel pointed out possible explosive rounds).  Some of them are possibly pieces of the engine failing ETC:

The fact remains that all Tail Gunners are AI because most bomber pilots know they don't want someone there who isn't picture perfect.  There's a tick mark in the setup to not allow human players into your aircraft.  The reason every bomber pilot checks it is because they know the AI is perfect and can kill everything that comes near.  

To my point here is my camera film from a 110E2 Killing 2 LAGG5 with the tail gunner when they bounced me.  And it's even worse when the 110 is an G2 and can sustain speeds above 500Km/H on the deck.  If I had a human gunner how long would I have lasted?  Yes I said remove the AI option from aircraft and make them manned positions.  Even the lowly 7.7mm tailgun when AI is deadly to attackers when the 110 is flow PE2 style.

 

 

Edited by JG51_Ogg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Love the team balance on TAW... Amazing the Allies are winning when it's constantly a huge mismatch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, JG51_Ogg said:

I didn't "CHOP THEM UP" to suit my needs.  I simply changed what was 637 lines (yes I counted them to be accurate) of damage to 4 critical events that happen to coincide with critical hits to both you and Gemanuel1

 

That's my definition of "chop them up to suit your needs" like it or lump it.

 

Anyhow there were no "critical hits", I landed at my base & he got slowly minced in a 12 second plus stream of bullets, that he could easily avoided, to the point he bailed out.

 

Your video demonstrates poor technique in flying, gunnery and ground attack in general. Making a second pass on a hot target is a basic mistake and you made at least two, which is just asking to be shot down, either by the AAA or any enemy fighter nearby who you may as well have turned your nav. lights on for and popped all your flares.

 

It may be your joystick sensitivity, but you are all over the place, which will slow you down lots when speed is life in ground attack. This is clearly seen in your spray n' prey strafing, pointless when your target is a bridge and you should have big enough bombs to take it out and anything nearby like AAA. Wasting cannon rounds just puts your bomb aiming off and leaves you with less ammo to defend yourself on the way home.

 

And you want to compare this to what? I don't fly like that in my Pe-2 or anything else.

 

Like your arithmetic, "can fire 174,000 Rounds per minute", enough said.

Edited by Pict
Spelling, tweaking etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Artificial gunners have been a controversy "forever". I was a founder of ICI (we did the game warbirds) and recall the challenge of getting game balance correct.

 

History tells us that gunners were amazingly inaccurate. Number of rounds fired against number of claims of kills (adjusted for inaccurate claims after war) tells the whole story.

 

My belief is the developers are trying to do there best but unfortunately there are flaws

 

The gunner is optimized only when the opposing fighter is locked up perfectly at the 12 oclock position. Even then then they're  not really accurate with the plane not being a stable platform and the guns not being a precise weapon when on full automatic fire.

 

If it is a plane vs gunner shootout in the 12 position, I would bet on the fighters multiple weapons vs the simple MG the gunner has. How the gunner survives more than a second or two in the unarmored rear position in this scenario is beyond me.

 

Accuracy falls off dramatically as the gunner has to shoot in deflection . Even 10-15 degrees offset from straight ahead (behind)  throws accuracy out the window. Any more than that it just doesn't happen.  Im not seeing the fall off in accuracy myself and those planes who have a broad (vs limited) traverse of guns have an unfair advantage.

 

The PE from my limited experience is amazing effective in shooting highly accurate "extremely deadly" deflection shots. It makes it "overly" effective. Some will call it a cheat. I prefer to see the allied side taking advantage of the current modeling. The PE did not display the air dominance in the actual battle as it does in the game. If there are settings available they should be turned down to bring them more back into balance.

 

bob (jokkr)

jokk in WB, AW, and AH

 

 

Edited by JG51_jokkr
spelling correction

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...