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I think something is wrong with ground kill accreditation.  I've run 3 bomber sorties, 1 on a train column and 2 on a defensive position, and I'm not getting any damage reports in the log.  I know for a fact I set SOMETHING on fire on the first defense bomb run, but absolutely nothing is showing up.  I'm only getting credit for a combat sortie, so I guess the server script knows I dropped bombs relatively close to a target.  Does anyone know what is possibly the cause? 

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5 часов назад, CamusB455 сказал:

I think something is wrong with ground kill accreditation.  I've run 3 bomber sorties, 1 on a train column and 2 on a defensive position, and I'm not getting any damage reports in the log.  I know for a fact I set SOMETHING on fire on the first defense bomb run, but absolutely nothing is showing up.  I'm only getting credit for a combat sortie, so I guess the server script knows I dropped bombs relatively close to a target.  Does anyone know what is possibly the cause? 

 

As I know not everything that can burn at objectives is counted as targets. Targets are tanks, artillery, trucks, AA and so on. I guess your bombs destroyed some “decorative” stuff.

The other reason could be you burnt already destroyed tank or attacked a closed objective

11 часов назад, SCG_Limbo сказал:

Do you have to destroy ** both ** depots for any  effects to take place  as written in the rules or are there effects before then?

 

 

These effects take place according to the percentage of damage of depots. More damage = more effects

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, CamusB455 said:

I think something is wrong with ground kill accreditation.  I've run 3 bomber sorties, 1 on a train column and 2 on a defensive position, and I'm not getting any damage reports in the log.  I know for a fact I set SOMETHING on fire on the first defense bomb run, but absolutely nothing is showing up.  I'm only getting credit for a combat sortie, so I guess the server script knows I dropped bombs relatively close to a target.  Does anyone know what is possibly the cause? 

 

I've experienced the same thing tonight, where I see fires burning after dropping on a defensive position, for example, only to get nothing credited.

 

In my case, I think it had something to do with the state of the defensive position.  I hit one of the Bashinko defensive positions, which on the web site is listed as "Poor"  However, the position looked fairly fresh, but I think since it's poor, it might be that not everything that is "destroyable" counts towards that objective.  I would like to see the relative health of a defensive position (i.e. None, Poor, Average, Good) dictate how many objects actually spawn, and that each object is destroyable and counts towards that position.  Right now, if you hit a defensive position that is poor for example, it's sort of a crap shoot in terms of what you will get credit for, IMO, even if it looks "fresh".

Edited by AKA_Relent

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6 hours ago, AKA_Relent said:

 

I've experienced the same thing tonight, where I see fires burning after dropping on a defensive position, for example, only to get nothing credited.

 

In my case, I think it had something to do with the state of the defensive position.  I hit one of the Bashinko defensive positions, which on the web site is listed as "Poor"  However, the position looked fairly fresh, but I think since it's poor, it might be that not everything that is "destroyable" counts towards that objective.  I would like to see the relative health of a defensive position (i.e. None, Poor, Average, Good) dictate how many objects actually spawn, and that each object is destroyable and counts towards that position.  Right now, if you hit a defensive position that is poor for example, it's sort of a crap shoot in terms of what you will get credit for, IMO, even if it looks "fresh".

This has happened to me when I hit a heavily damaged defensive position; lots of fires and smoke, only 1 ground kill (a truck). The dugouts require pretty well direct hits from bombs to kill them, and a lot of the surrounding boxes and other stuff don't appear to be actual targets. The defense position looks big and sprawling but there's only a scattering of 'real' targets and the dugouts are hard to kill. That seems to be the issue.

 

Last night I hit a pristine defensive position in much the same way, planted 4 250kg bombs and got 12 ground kills - trucks, a light tank, some AA, and damaged (but didn't destroy) a few of the dugouts.


With the train, I believe ONLY the train cars themselves are considered legit targets, the various other stuff like trucks around the area is not part of the target. 


I don't know if it would be better to go after defense positions with the 500kg to try and kill the dugouts or just go with more 100 kg and try and scatter shot them...

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9 hours ago, WG_Magners said:

These effects take place according to the percentage of damage of depots. More damage = more effects

 

Okay, thanks Magners and I was assuming as such but here's what the rules state:

 

If two enemy depots are completely destroyed then:

· number of enemy vehicles in tank and supply convoy is reduced by 30%

etc.

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onwards comrades, together to victory! :)

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6 minutes ago, Benti said:

onwards comrades, together to victory! :)

Looking good for the reds I have to say. Axis is out of tanks and they're losing aircraft faster than us. With my aircraft loss rates it may be better for me to stay away from flying for a night or two so they don't catch up!

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41 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Looking good for the reds I have to say. Axis is out of tanks and they're losing aircraft faster than us. With my aircraft loss rates it may be better for me to stay away from flying for a night or two so they don't catch up!

If you'd like I should have some time for one bombing mission later. We can fly a bit and bomb a few axis aircraft! :)

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1.JaVA_CaptChanceless

 

Sorry i hit u over  bridge when are under atack, sorry.

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Our squadron is new to the server and one of our guys was shot down in a 110.  He respawned as a gunner of one of the remaining flight and he was kicked.   He then waited five minutes and spawned in his 109 and it kicked him and said he had a 20 hour time penalty.  Does anyone know why this is?

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15 minutes ago, WIS-Redcoat said:

Our squadron is new to the server and one of our guys was shot down in a 110.  He respawned as a gunner of one of the remaining flight and he was kicked.   He then waited five minutes and spawned in his 109 and it kicked him and said he had a 20 hour time penalty.  Does anyone know why this is?

 

Yes. He probably ran out of lives. Once your life counter reaches 0, you get a 20 hr ban. After that, the user automatically gains 1 life to his name.

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35 minutes ago, WIS-Redcoat said:

Our squadron is new to the server and one of our guys was shot down in a 110.  He respawned as a gunner of one of the remaining flight and he was kicked.   He then waited five minutes and spawned in his 109 and it kicked him and said he had a 20 hour time penalty.  Does anyone know why this is?

I don't believe player gunners are allowed in TAW.  I know it's not in the "rules" section of the manual, but, honestly, most of the game mechanics aren't very well explained and have to be picked up by reading the thread and catching tidbits on teamspeak.  Like the Cardboard defensive positions with real targets hiding among the fake ones like an impossible game of "where's waldo".  Brilliant. 

I know why the three lives rule is in place, but it's a hell of a time finding out about that once it happens, I'd imagine.

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3 hours ago, CamusB455 said:

I don't believe player gunners are allowed in TAW.  I know it's not in the "rules" section of the manual, but, honestly, most of the game mechanics aren't very well explained and have to be picked up by reading the thread and catching tidbits on teamspeak.  Like the Cardboard defensive positions with real targets hiding among the fake ones like an impossible game of "where's waldo".  Brilliant. 

I know why the three lives rule is in place, but it's a hell of a time finding out about that once it happens, I'd imagine.

The Defenses in particular are frustrating targets. We hammered them tonight several times and half the time despite good hits and lots of stuff on fire we had no ground kills to speak of. It’s hard to know if you’re just not hitting things, if it’s a bug or if you need to bring bigger bombs. And then sometimes you hit them and the scoreboard lights up like a Christmas tree.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

The Defenses in particular are frustrating targets. We hammered them tonight several times and half the time despite good hits and lots of stuff on fire we had no ground kills to speak of. It’s hard to know if you’re just not hitting things, if it’s a bug or if you need to bring bigger bombs. And then sometimes you hit them and the scoreboard lights up like a Christmas tree.

 

 

 

In addition, and this isn't TAW's fault but the fault of BoS in general, the items within a defense object are clustered ridiculously closely together. A single bombing run should not be able to hit both ends of a system of trenches, bunkers, etc.

Edited by WokeUpDead

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Posted (edited)
1 час назад, RedKestrel сказал:

The Defenses in particular are frustrating targets. We hammered them tonight several times and half the time despite good hits and lots of stuff on fire we had no ground kills to speak of. It’s hard to know if you’re just not hitting things, if it’s a bug or if you need to bring bigger bombs. And then sometimes you hit them and the scoreboard lights up like a Christmas tree.

 

 

 

You can find what counted as real targets in Manual:

 

13D442B9-21B2-4C87-ABCC-EFE40FE36518.jpeg

 

so my tactics in destroying defenses is to kill AAA first (dive attacks from 3000m with 500kg bombs works pretty good), then tanks by dropping big bombs (usually every defense position has 2 tanks placed in the first line). After killing tanks I bomb dugouts by little ones, sometimes it gets some stuff staying around (like trucks). Keep in mind it is important to destroy all tanks and anti-tanks guns otherwise you can destroy near to everything at defense but it will be still alive

Edited by WG_Magners
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13 minutes ago, morhysnougat said:

Hi fellow pilots, i just got Chute shot on purpose, is it forbidden by server?

Just in case is the link of the sortie here :  http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=32755&name=morhysnougat

 

happend to me as well at the beginning of the campaign. A tip: As soon as you bail, click the mission end button. Unfortunately there are quite a few 109 pilots going for the chute kills.
Even though I'm sure that there are reds who do the same.

 

S!

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Ok thank you guys for your answers and tips!

That was not pretty but rules are rules,

See you in the skies!

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6 hours ago, WG_Magners said:

 

You can find what counted as real targets in Manual:

 

13D442B9-21B2-4C87-ABCC-EFE40FE36518.jpeg

 

so my tactics in destroying defenses is to kill AAA first (dive attacks from 3000m with 500kg bombs works pretty good), then tanks by dropping big bombs (usually every defense position has 2 tanks placed in the first line). After killing tanks I bomb dugouts by little ones, sometimes it gets some stuff staying around (like trucks). Keep in mind it is important to destroy all tanks and anti-tanks guns otherwise you can destroy near to everything at defense but it will be still alive

Yes, I know. The issue we were having was that we were hitting the dugouts, often with direct hits, and not seeing 'kills'. Its unclear if the dugouts were already "dead" or if we were just not hitting them hard enough. My stats for the last two missions showed no damage dealt at all, even though my fellow attackers saw bursts directly on target.

In any case, we all got our CMs for long enough flights and the defenses were mauled badly enough that our tanks took the city. C'est le geurre, I suppose. 
 

1 hour ago, Benti said:

happend to me as well at the beginning of the campaign. A tip: As soon as you bail, click the mission end button. Unfortunately there are quite a few 109 pilots going for the chute kills.
Even though I'm sure that there are reds who do the same.

 

S!

Chute-killing is one of those things that has an impact on the map in theory, but in practice it looks like aircraft are going to run out first almost every time. Its not hard to see why.

Chute killing is not always even feasible if you are in active combat, or if you lose sight of the chute. So even if everybody chute killed at every opportunity, enemy aircraft would still run out first because there would always be times when you shot down a craft and couldn't follow up on the pilot, or when the pilot elected to stay with the craft and try and ditch.

Doesn't seem worth pissing off people you might be flying with next map by shooting their pilot, especially if he might get captured anyway. Some people take it personally and it doesn't really accomplish much.

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1 hour ago, RedKestrel said:

Chute-killing is one of those things that has an impact on the map in theory, but in practice it looks like aircraft are going to run out first almost every time. Its not hard to see why.

Chute killing is not always even feasible if you are in active combat, or if you lose sight of the chute. So even if everybody chute killed at every opportunity, enemy aircraft would still run out first because there would always be times when you shot down a craft and couldn't follow up on the pilot, or when the pilot elected to stay with the craft and try and ditch.

Doesn't seem worth pissing off people you might be flying with next map by shooting their pilot, especially if he might get captured anyway. Some people take it personally and it doesn't really accomplish much.

 

I agree completely. There is no point apart from pissing people off, but then again trolls will be trolls 😕

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Benti said:

 

I agree completely. There is no point apart from pissing people off, but then again trolls will be trolls 😕

Whether someone likes it or not, it makes sense. In earlier TAW campaigns, maps were repeatedly lost due to the loss of all pilots.
In addition, killing another player as a result, you send him a penalty kick to rest for 20 hours. It also helps your team.
Everyone decides for himself whether he will use this tool to achieve victory .

Edited by =2ndSS=Lawyer1
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

Whether someone likes it or not, it makes sense. In earlier TAW campaigns, maps were repeatedly lost due to the loss of all pilots.
In addition, killing another player as a result, you send him a penalty kick to rest for 20 hours. It also helps your team.
Everyone decides for himself whether he will use this tool to achieve victory .

This time around though, it looks like 1 pilot is lost for every 2 aircraft lost. Axis are 8 planes from losing at  the moment but they have almost 300 spare pilots. That's a lot of chute killing. 

EDIT: To be clear, I meant that a lot more chute killing would have to be done in order to make up for those 300 spare pilots and win the map. Did not mean to imply that all pilot deaths were chute kills, that's obviously not the case.

I'm not going to take it personal if someone shoots me up when I bail out. I die often enough that my streak is never all that significant and the way the math currently works pilot deaths aren't impacting the campaign much, so I don't really care. The community is small enough that I don't feel like rocking the boat in case someone is more invested than me, but as you said, to each their own.

 

Edited by RedKestrel

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2 часа назад, RedKestrel сказал:

This time around though, it looks like 1 pilot is lost for every 2 aircraft lost. Axis are 8 planes from losing at  the moment but they have almost 300 spare pilots. That's a lot of chute killing. 

I'm not going to take it personal if someone shoots me up when I bail out. I die often enough that my streak is never all that significant and the way the math currently works pilot deaths aren't impacting the campaign much, so I don't really care. The community is small enough that I don't feel like rocking the boat in case someone is more invested than me, but as you said, to each their own.

 

Reds have much less chances to get captured then blues. I think it is the main reason why blue pilots kill chutes

4 часа назад, RedKestrel сказал:

The issue we were having was that we were hitting the dugouts, often with direct hits, and not seeing 'kills'. Its unclear if the dugouts were already "dead" or if we were just not hitting them hard enough. My stats for the last two missions showed no damage dealt at all, even though my fellow attackers saw bursts directly on target.
 

 

Are you confident enough in visual identifying “fresh” and “destroyed” dugouts? 

I know a lot of people who have troubles with it and sometimes I have such problem, especially in bad weather conditions.

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4 minutes ago, WG_Magners said:

 

Reds have much less chances to get captured then blues. I think it is the main reason why blue pilots kill chutes

Its still not helping them much at the moment. On Map#2 They would have had to kill, like, 500 red pilots to win the map. They would have had to kill nearly every pilot they shot down to reach the pilot limit. Just doesn't seem all that feasible. At least with current numbers.

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I put together "Twilight Zone", first entry in TAW XIX Diaries. It captures various moments from several sorties that I and my fellow Letka pilots flew last sunday evening.

 

 

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4 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

This time around though, it looks like 1 pilot is lost for every 2 aircraft lost. Axis are 8 planes from losing at  the moment but they have almost 300 spare pilots. That's a lot of chute killing.

 

How in the world can you infer the relative amount of chute killing going on when there are so many other factors that can determine pilot death like augering into the ground or taking a bullet while in the plane?

 

2 hours ago, WG_Magners said:

Reds have much less chances to get captured then blues. I think it is the main reason why blue pilots kill chutes.

 

Do you really think that blue engages in more in chute killing than reds?  I know that SCG has a strict policy against chute killing under any circumstances and I assume this also holds true for other large blue squadrons like JG4.  I'd be willing to bet that its the other way around but I have really no way of verifying (beyond individually parsing sortie logs with a computer program).

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, WG_Magners said:

Are you confident enough in visual identifying “fresh” and “destroyed” dugouts? 

I know a lot of people who have troubles with it and sometimes I have such problem, especially in bad weather conditions.

 

The problem with dugouts as I see it is that the difference between a live and dead dugout is very subtle, and you need to get fairly close and/or zoom in to tell.  There are more splotches in a dead dugout, and the color is slightly darker, but it’s not obvious (which it should be, IMO), like what you get when a hangar is destroyed (I.e. blackened structure caved in on itself).

 

Thus, if you are diving into a defensive position, you can’t always tell until you are about ready to drop.  Then there likely isn’t enough time to adjust and try to hit the dugouts you think are still alive - plus with the AA shooting at you, and likely defensive fighters in the area, so I usually just want to hit and run as opposed to circle back and try again :).

Edited by AKA_Relent

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3 minutes ago, SCG_Limbo said:

 

How in the world can you infer the relative amount of chute killing going on when there are so many other factors that can determine pilot death like augering into the ground or taking a bullet while in the plane?

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that all or most pilot deaths were due to chute killing. Rather, that a lot MORE chute killing would have to be done for it to make a difference in how the campaign turns out. Let me try and explain better.

Last map Axis lost 1380 planes (the limit) and I think around 630-ish pilots to all causes. The pilot limit for the axis was 900. So pilot death or capture was roughly a 50/50 shot for every aircraft lost. There were 750 times where a plane was destroyed and the pilot didn't die. (this ignores planes destroyed on the ground, I don't know how common this is but lets disregard those losses to make a best case scenario here in terms of bail-outs). Assuming all those pilots bailed out, the soviets would have had to kill 270 of the 750 to reach the pilot limit at the same time they reached the aircraft limit. That's a lot of chutes to, uh, shoot.

Now, how many times do people see an enemy pilot bail out of his craft, and have enough time to turn around, line up on him, and shoot him up before he exits or hits the ground? And kept him in sight long enough to kill him? AND not had enemy fighters on their butt? Not very often, I would guess. And how many of those planes were shot down by AA with no enemies around to kill the pilot in his chute? And of course many of the pilots of shot down aircraft who survive ditch in friendly territory rather than bailing out, or simply land with a totally shot up plane that counts as destroyed in the stats.

So the opportunity to chute-kill is actually even more limited than this. It starts to approach practical impossibility to win a map by chute-killing pilots before aircraft attrition wins you the map anyway. Would there even BE enough opportunities to chute kill to make a difference?

I suspect that even if people chute-killed every pilot that they practically could,  plane attrition or the front line would still decide the map. SCG's policy is (IMO) a good one and looks to cost nothing in terms of likelihood of victory with the added bonus of fewer hard feelings. 

I have no idea how much chute killing is/isn't done, as I've stated before as it just doesn't seem worth it for the grief it causes. Just guessing, but I think its a very small percentage of overall pilot deaths.

2 hours ago, WG_Magners said:

 

Reds have much less chances to get captured then blues. I think it is the main reason why blue pilots kill chutes

 

Are you confident enough in visual identifying “fresh” and “destroyed” dugouts? 

I know a lot of people who have troubles with it and sometimes I have such problem, especially in bad weather conditions.

Honestly, not really. From where I was sitting it was nearly impossible to tell destroyed bunkers and dugouts from live ones. For all I knew there was one dugout left that we just weren't hitting and the target was staying on the map because of that.

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The Bug that the germans have a F-4 from the get go in this map is still not fixed. The planeset states 0/1

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, DerSheriff said:

The Bug that the germans have a F-4 from the get go in this map is still not fixed. The planeset states 0/1

 

Thank you for bringing that up - I was wondering, as I noticed I/others got a Yak1 0/1 and thought blue was supposed to get an F-4 0/1 as well.

 

Actually, it looks like the manual was changed, now it’s 1/1 for the F-4, and 1/2 for the Macchi...

Edited by AKA_Relent

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Anyone else having issues downloading the files from the server? Mine is just constantly hanging on download.

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12 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Anyone else having issues downloading the files from the server? Mine is just constantly hanging on download.

Try removing the offending files from your computer and then redownload them. I'm not near the computer but it should be something like: 

 

C:/~/1C Studios/IL2 Great Battles/bin/multiplayer/<---FILESHERE--->

 

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2 hours ago, [TWB]Sketch said:

Try removing the offending files from your computer and then redownload them. I'm not near the computer but it should be something like: 

 


C:/~/1C Studios/IL2 Great Battles/bin/multiplayer/<---FILESHERE--->

 

Thanks. It managed to work itself out after I flapped around in combat Box for a bit.

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12 hours ago, SCG_Limbo said:

 

 

 

Do you really think that blue engages in more in chute killing than reds?  I know that SCG has a strict policy against chute killing under any circumstances and I assume this also holds true for other large blue squadrons like JG4.  I'd be willing to bet that its the other way around but I have really no way of verifying (beyond individually parsing sortie logs with a computer program).


Strictly forbidden to shoot at any downed pilot in Ala13 squadron.
But I have seen some people doing it,  both sides, got killed myself,  but actually more often by mistake (keep shooting while bailing) than on purpose.

From here I'd like to congratulate Gemini squadron for yesterday's late night sortie, you were right on the spot at the right moment to screw our mission, very, very good aiming too.

Even if you got shooted down you completely achieved your mission.

Well done, hope we DON'T see you soon 😂

 



 

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1 hour ago, =IS=Rammzess said:

It is necessary to balance the chances of being captured for both sides.

Why? The Red Team is fighting over its own territory.

 

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I think i was mistake... because i remember i read before , both sides have same % to be captured... but i dont find changelog. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
7 часов назад, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 сказал:

Why? The Red Team is fighting over its own territory.

 

1. There are no maps with a "blue" territory in the game. Where is the balance?
2. Pilots returning from enemy territory were first questioned and investigated, and not sent back on a combat mission. Could be shot for treason. Where is historicism?
If we have a balance of pilots, then there must be a balance of captivity!

6 часов назад, 666GIAP_Tumu сказал:

I think i was mistake... because i remember i read before , both sides have same % to be captured... but i dont find changelog. 

 

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/21029-tactical-air-war/?do=findComment&comment=742742

 

Edited by =IS=Rammzess

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