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Tactical Air War

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Infinite pe2 means we hardly see IL-2s. 

Same for the 110s 500kg bombs... We never see Stukas with the 1t bomb. And the 1.8t isn't even there. Meta is main fighter + 110/pe2 spam .Unfortunate :(

 

 

Instead of having X amount of planes available, why not just do it same way as wings of liberty did and limit the planes in the airfields themselves to a X number/2h.

This way you don't have to rage at "new people", lone wolfs and your preferred group that is responsible for all bad in TAW for depletion of the global plane pool of F-4's and focus on the game, one mission at the time. 

 

The the issues with these systems, the global pool or per map refresh basis is the first come, first served and the depletion of global stock pool by people "with no real business in occupying the high end machines..". either way it will make things less fun.

Perhaps limiting the most popular planes like Pe-2 and other offenders might be a compromise, yet there still will be tears and resentment over that "other dude who took my plane". 

 

Right now the mechanics of TAW pit people against people in somewhat constructive manner for the campaign... even tho it gets challenged by the day with this new life system. Having people in same team compete over finite recourse will surely foster sportsmanship and brotherly love.  

Edited by CptSiddy
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22 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

 we hardly see IL-2s. 

 

 

That feeling when the name of the game is literally IL-2 Sturmovik 🤣

 

I don't know how TAW is at the moment, but in general I've found the accuracy of heavy AA in this game obviates the Sturmovik's armor to the point where one is better off just taking a fragile but fast fighter to get in and out before they can respond. It is kind of sad.

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I would like to fly the Il-2 more, but don't want to risk it unless I can get good fighter cover.  Flew it once this campaign so far and got gang banged by 109's even with I-16's in the area.

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I flew an IL-2 in the rain and very low and thick cloud cover yesterday, it was great. It forced me to do some blind navigating and to change my tactics hitting the target. Thumbs up to occasional bad weather maps.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

Replacing one excuse with another?

 

Sure, burnt BBQ, I'll make sure to not make suggestions on the basis of realism next time.

 

Edited by Banzaii

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Why am I getting the error "Connection Lost"? I have been killed just two times so I don't think it is because of that...

 

Can someone help?

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I can't connect at all to the server, it wasn't full and people were getting in everytime even after me, I was getting kicked at all times even when I shouldn't be kicked... 

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

Replacing one excuse with another?

He isn't making excuses he is stating a fact that red players pretty much spammed the map with pe-2's as it is the only good allied plane in map 1.  It can also be said that there wasn't much effort on the part of blue to hit ground targets as out of the 25 top ground killers after map 1 only 4 were German.  I wouldn't be surprised if the number of people predominately flying Pe-2 sorties rose massively on map one this TAW compared to the previous two.  Now had blue countered with equal amounts of 110 spam map one would still be hanging in balance.  If you want a realistic mix of aircraft  types flown the total number of aircraft available should broken down to number of specific types. Keep in mind this would also result in limited numbers of 109's available so that could result in more prey for allied fighter pilots and less infinite 109 spam to contend with.  It would be cool to implement a supply system where airfields had to be replenished by aircraft ferried from the airfield next to the depot.

Edited by -332FG-Garven

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Is there a special TAW-program to piss off all, who want to fly Germans or Level Bombers by giving every map an "overcast" (russian turnfighter-) weather? We had it Wednesday three times in a row.

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12 minutes ago, JG4_Karl_Gratz said:

Is there a special TAW-program to piss off all, who want to fly Germans or Level Bombers by giving every map an "overcast" (russian turnfighter-) weather? We had it Wednesday three times in a row.

In the autumn of 1941 around Moscow was very rainy weather.

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23 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

In the autumn of 1941 around Moscow was very rainy weather.

C´mon, this is a game, that should make fun, not a historical weather report

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9 minutes ago, JG4_Karl_Gratz said:

C´mon, this is a game, that should make fun, not a historical weather report

Yes, and I like this game with bad weather.

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2 hours ago, -332FG-Garven said:

He isn't making excuses he is stating a fact that red players pretty much spammed the map with pe-2's as it is the only good allied plane in map 1.  It can also be said that there wasn't much effort on the part of blue to hit ground targets as out of the 25 top ground killers after map 1 only 4 were German.  I wouldn't be surprised if the number of people predominately flying Pe-2 sorties rose massively on map one this TAW compared to the previous two.  Now had blue countered with equal amounts of 110 spam map one would still be hanging in balance.  If you want a realistic mix of aircraft  types flown the total number of aircraft available should broken down to number of specific types. Keep in mind this would also result in limited numbers of 109's available so that could result in more prey for allied fighter pilots and less infinite 109 spam to contend with.  It would be cool to implement a supply system where airfields had to be replenished by aircraft ferried from the airfield next to the depot.

 

There are reports available that include the numbers of aircraft delivered to the Eastern front by date and type; a war campaign server in the 1946 game made use of them to limit aircraft numbers. But if you think realistic aircraft numbers will stop Pe-2 spamming then you will be disappointed: the Soviets really did have a lot of them even in June 1941.

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Posted (edited)

Got 4 buildings in the kill log but sortie still ended up as 0 GK?

2019_5_15__20_4_47.jpg

2019_5_15__20_4_47.jpg

Edited by =KG76=flyus747

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, =KG76=flyus747 said:

Got 4 buildings in the kill log but sortie still ended up as 0 GK?

 

I'm at the point where I don't even look at the in-game (Tab) kill sheet anymore because the discrepancies with the website stats have become so frequent. However, if you end the mission dead or captured any air/ground kills are not credited.

Edited by StG77_HvB
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41 minutes ago, =KG76=flyus747 said:

Got 4 buildings in the kill log but sortie still ended up as 0 GK?

2019_5_15__20_4_47.jpg

2019_5_15__20_4_47.jpg

You died, therefore gk are not counted 

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Posted (edited)

Remove that life system. It's not good and not fun at all make this server now.

Edited by FinGIAP_Drummerenko
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I have just reported to the devs bug in DServer.exe. If player is banned for 3 min, then even after that time after joining the server he is still automatically kicked by the DServer. (The script works fine and don't kick that players it's the DServer bug).

 

I will have to find some work around for this issue.... ehh....

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4 minutes ago, FinGIAP_Drummerenko said:

Remove that life system. It's not good and not fun at all make this server now.

Maybe you would give some specific arguments why we should do it? 

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2 hours ago, JG4_Karl_Gratz said:

Is there a special TAW-program to piss off all, who want to fly Germans or Level Bombers by giving every map an "overcast" (russian turnfighter-) weather? We had it Wednesday three times in a row.

 

I thought it was a bug, but it was just a probability... small, very small but still it may happen.

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13 minutes ago, FinGIAP_Drummerenko said:

Remove that life system. It's not good and not fun at all make this server now.

 

Well, I have another suggestion: stay alive?

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11 minutes ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

 

Well, I have another suggestion: stay alive?

Or just try... It also make fun and challenge. 

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Anyone else running into this problem?

 

I flew an escort sortie on a level bombing mission that ran just shy of 57 minutes. I landed at my airbase, but the server disconnected me as I was clicking "Finish Mission." As a result, I did not receive credit for a combat mission even though my log in TAW says I landed. It's not the end of the world, but kind of frustrating after such a long sortie.

il-2TAW.JPG

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, =LG=Piciu said:

Maybe you would give some specific arguments why we should do it? 

 

1. It doesn't regulate *only* the trolling behavior it is meant to regulate.  It also punishes bad luck, bad internet connections, those who are less experienced, those with limited real life schedules who might have a bad few flights then must wait much longer than 24 hours for their next bit of free time and those who haven't sacrificed their beloved pets to the gods of "git guud".  

It's not a mechanic to add to game play.  It was never stated as such.  It's a restriction to stop trolls from blowing their whole plane set in a massive suicide vulcher spam, then starting over with the +1 planes given on the next 2 hour round, rinsing and repeating.   It's putting out a campfire with a tsunami.

 

The only people rushing to defend it seem to only have "You better Git Guud" as their defense.  Trust me, if they had a run of bad luck or otherwise that killed them 3 flights in a row and banned them for 24 hours, they're Nazi/Commie-bational fantasies would come to a grinding halt.  Then we'd see some real salt on the forum page. 

 

7 hours ago, Banzaii said:

 

Sure, burnt BBQ, I'll make sure to not make suggestions on the basis of realism next time.

 

 

I refer you to WokeUpDead's response to the topic.  He's said it better than I ever could.

3 hours ago, WokeUpDead said:

 

There are reports available that include the numbers of aircraft delivered to the Eastern front by date and type; a war campaign server in the 1946 game made use of them to limit aircraft numbers. But if you think realistic aircraft numbers will stop Pe-2 spamming then you will be disappointed: the Soviets really did have a lot of them even in June 1941.

  

Edited by =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ
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There is a major flaw with the 3 death rules.. There are less and less inexperienced pilots in the skies to shoot at and every kill is a struggle 😂

Joking aside, it's a nice mechanic, but there is already a limited amount of planes, limited lives are not necessary imho. Or maybe do additional supply runs to get life back or something. 

 

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Just make the 24h in to 20h and the life pool to be 3/3 and not the current 1/1 +2 overhang at start.

 

Badabin, badabum, problem solved. 

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18 minutes ago, Willy__ said:

 

Maybe make it possible to gain up to 3 lives, one every 24h instead of the maximum 1, so its closer to the initial idea ? :unsure:

 

 

Yeah, but 20 instead of 24 because of you die at the end of your flight and have only 1 life, next day you are out of sync with your potential squad and peers. Shaving off 4h will put you in the range of possibly not left behind but is still long enough to make it sting. 

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Well here we go.  Now if you continue to read this maybe you'll understand a few points that are being stated but not understood.  As CO of JG51Molders I have, with the agreement of the leadership, decided to pull our support of the TAW server.  With doing this we will no longer have our squad required to play in the TAW server during the squad night follies.

 

That being said, here is the points being made and being missed by the defenders of the faith.

 

1) Life counter.  A lot of people have real life time frames they need to PLAY the game inside of.  If one day a person has the ability to play 2 maps (4 hours) and dies 3 times because he or she happened to be going to the wrong area with high enemy numbers in 10 minute flight time, their day on the server is over.  Some say "Too bad you died you lose" and "you need to be a better pilot to survive".  Some of you may know about Cliffs of Dover and the ATAG boys.  This "It's our game and we do what we want" mentality is what has forced the mass migration of players from Cliffs to BoX.  Personally I liked Cliffs and we had our own server there, but because of the ATAG/TeamFusion mentality they black balled anyone with a new idea for a server run scenario.  They would ban you from everything ATAG to stop you from even playing with them.  They would short term ban anyone who tried different servers and reported back that it was fun.  Back to the life counter.  You cannot punish someone for being dreadfully inadequate in a flight sim if they don't fly every single day for multiple hours a day.  But this life counter does exactly that.  This goes to many of the following points.

 

2) I see the PE2 spam problem being reported by the Axis players and being poo pooed away by the VVS players.  Very well there may have been a large building of PE2s during this time of the war and it may be factually correct to place that large of an amount of aircraft where they are placed.  But I think the problem being reported as an incorrect problem.  The problem with so many PE2 aircraft brought to the front is that the AI gunners in a PE2 can kill an attacking aircraft before the attackers is within range to fire themselves.  The AI tail gunners also, against moving targets yet, have the accuracy of Vasily Zaitsev  shooting a standing soldier at 50M.  If gunners were so accurate in real life then why even build fighter planes knowing they were fodder for the gun.  Firing 2 12.7mm Mgs at you is bad enough but when they have that accuracy it become ludicrous to put your life counter on the line to attack a PE2 that is flying in the weeds.  The average amount of ammunition fired from a moving bomber/fighter bomber tail-gunner during this time was 3500 rounds for an actual shoot down.  Here it's less than 100 rounds to kill an enemy fighter attacking a PE2.  You're only going to take multiple hits lose an engine then crash before making it home.  You lose a life and then you lose another doing what should be an interesting attack and kill.  Now you're out of your life counter.

 

3) AI AAA is deadly to a fault.  I don't know how many of you have been shot down by enemy AAA in the game and bailed out above 3K altitude but do it sometime.  Watch what happens.  You have a policy that says "don't shoot people in chutes it's not right thing to do".  Even the AI will shoot at you in your chute and kill you if you're the closest enemy to it.  So the AI will kill you for doing the right thing and bailing out.  This from something that can and will attack you from BVR (Beyond visual range) through clouds, over hills, and in valleys.  I didn't realize that AAA during WWii was radar controlled to the point of tracking an enemy it cannot see.  Then why on this virtual earth does it not fire at friendly aircraft also flying above the clouds near them?  Lose three lives over radar controlled 40MM, 20mm, and MG flak and your out because you lost your life counter.

 

4) Experience of players in the game compared to the deaths.  A point in case  The maps started, at the writing of this post, 89 hours ago.  The top 5 pilots have more than 20 hours each.  That's roughly 7 hours a day and one has enough hours to be in the above 8 hours a day category.  How well do you really think a player who plays 2 to 3 hours a week would fare against someone who doubles or triples that daily?  It's a game, it's not real life, and to give someone the death penalty for not being able to compete with a "Professional flight simmer" (what you are called in the gaming world when you practice more than 4 hours a day) while they are a NooB (someone not a professional) is a stupid concept.  The game had a great engine that did punish players for dying.  It took away the aircraft you died in, gave you a five minute time out, and you had to work to get it back.  You would also lose experience points and for those of us that liked the rank system and used it for motivation within the squad it was a great tool.  Now the NooB can be assured when they die they not only get a 5 minute timeout, lose experience rank, and sit a 5 minute timeout but now they are conceptually sent to the closet for not being the top dog.  they lost their life counter.

 

5) The weather.  Yeah the weather being overcast and rainy and snowy all the time (even though it is factually correct) is a bit much.  The ops ran on days such as those described in the thread are of course too much for the gamer who wants to go out find a target from altitude and play with it.  One guy is under the cloud one guy is over and no one gets killed.  Everyone knows the Axis are going to be above the clouds because that is where their air-frames are factually superior and the VVS is under the clouds as their air-frames perform better at slow speed fighting.  Since all the targets are below the clouds you can see how quickly a map gets rolled.  At this pace we'll be done with this campaign by Memorial Day.  Since you won't come up and die and I won't go down and die then you win and the life counter just goes on banning other people who are not so good.

 

6) The defensive posturing that is being brought against those that would have their concerns heard is very much like the shout down mentality of mob rules.  We have the ball, we control the mob, mob go kill anyone with a different point of view.  That's the frustration with all of this nonsense and, for that, is why we JG51Molders have withdrawn our support.  We don't want you to do anything you don't want to do.  However we do want the community that, defends tooth and nail, every single question is being shouted down and pushed aside to understand this is how other sims have lost the respect of the player base.  In Cliffs of Dover today ATAG barely even runs a single full server (they used to have 2 at near capacity).  Many of the other server builders have moved on from Cliffs to DCS and BoX.  This will most likely be my last flight sim as I am getting too old to continue building new machines, set aside time, and enjoy the life I've built for myself.

 

Now if you've made it through this post I hope you have a better understanding of some of the core issues being brought about.  I hope you'll hear the other side of the argument and understand they have concerns that really need to be addressed even if they didn't frame the original statement correctly.  Don't jump on someones post because you didn't understand it and are assuming they are talking about one thing when it's really about another.  Communicate or watch the concept go by the wayside.

 

>S<

JG51_Ogg

CO JG51Molders

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Does the U2VS provide 4% resupply same as the Pe-2?

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I can't believe I'm weighing into an internet forum debate here but here goes...

 

I believe the main reason for the three death rule was because of 'suicide jockey' pilots not caring about their stats or if they get killed. I'm a  ground attack guy, and it's frustrating and unrealistic to have guys who migrate over from the bouncy castle (Wings of Liberty) because they see the TAW server is populated, and then fly a 109 up my ass with their eyes shut and finger on the trigger to ram me. Pretty sure they wouldn't do that in real life. I lose a pilot, and they just say "Meh, that was fun" and go back to Call of Duty or Xhamster or whatever.

 

You have to plan very carefully to succeed in TAW and develop tactics that work. Yes, it's VERY frustrating sometimes, particularly when you are playing with new guys. My suggestion would be to train on another server with them and then fly TAW when you think you are ready. Sometimes I spend 15 minutes just staring at the map trying to figure out not only what targets need hitting, but how to find it without getting bounced, and how to attack it without getting killed. It can be done. If you just take off in your Stuka or IL2 and head straight for the front lines to a tank column you'll probably get killed. Just like you would in real life.

 

If you fly fighters and you are in inferior aircraft or outnumbered then fly some defensive patrols over friendly objectives to pounce on bombers. Then, even if you do get shot down you won't get captured. There's always something that needs doing - try flying a transport mission occasionally. 

 

Here are a few tips for ground attackers. (I'm not being condescending here, I genuinely want to see more people play this server because it's the best and they are always trying to improve it)

 

Try not to fly alone and get on comms.

Never loiter over a target, make one pass and haul ass.

Always dive at high speed when attacking a ground target and stay low coming off.

Try to attack towards friendly lines so you are going fast and low towards home base.

On ingress, navigate to an easy to find feature near the target (an initial point or IP) to avoid getting lost and swanning around in enemy territory.

If you level bomb, fly as high as you can and take a fighter or two with you.

 

Out.

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5 minutes ago, JG51_Ogg said:

Well here we go.  Now if you continue to read this maybe you'll understand a few points that are being stated but not understood.  As CO of JG51Molders I have, with the agreement of the leadership, decided to pull our support of the TAW server.  With doing this we will no longer have our squad required to play in the TAW server during the squad night follies.

 

That being said, here is the points being made and being missed by the defenders of the faith.

 

1) Life counter.  A lot of people have real life time frames they need to PLAY the game inside of.  If one day a person has the ability to play 2 maps (4 hours) and dies 3 times because he or she happened to be going to the wrong area with high enemy numbers in 10 minute flight time, their day on the server is over.  Some say "Too bad you died you lose" and "you need to be a better pilot to survive".  Some of you may know about Cliffs of Dover and the ATAG boys.  This "It's our game and we do what we want" mentality is what has forced the mass migration of players from Cliffs to BoX.  Personally I liked Cliffs and we had our own server there, but because of the ATAG/TeamFusion mentality they black balled anyone with a new idea for a server run scenario.  They would ban you from everything ATAG to stop you from even playing with them.  They would short term ban anyone who tried different servers and reported back that it was fun.  Back to the life counter.  You cannot punish someone for being dreadfully inadequate in a flight sim if they don't fly every single day for multiple hours a day.  But this life counter does exactly that.  This goes to many of the following points.

 

2) I see the PE2 spam problem being reported by the Axis players and being poo pooed away by the VVS players.  Very well there may have been a large building of PE2s during this time of the war and it may be factually correct to place that large of an amount of aircraft where they are placed.  But I think the problem being reported as an incorrect problem.  The problem with so many PE2 aircraft brought to the front is that the AI gunners in a PE2 can kill an attacking aircraft before the attackers is within range to fire themselves.  The AI tail gunners also, against moving targets yet, have the accuracy of Vasily Zaitsev  shooting a standing soldier at 50M.  If gunners were so accurate in real life then why even build fighter planes knowing they were fodder for the gun.  Firing 2 12.7mm Mgs at you is bad enough but when they have that accuracy it become ludicrous to put your life counter on the line to attack a PE2 that is flying in the weeds.  The average amount of ammunition fired from a moving bomber/fighter bomber tail-gunner during this time was 3500 rounds for an actual shoot down.  Here it's less than 100 rounds to kill an enemy fighter attacking a PE2.  You're only going to take multiple hits lose an engine then crash before making it home.  You lose a life and then you lose another doing what should be an interesting attack and kill.  Now you're out of your life counter.

 

3) AI AAA is deadly to a fault.  I don't know how many of you have been shot down by enemy AAA in the game and bailed out above 3K altitude but do it sometime.  Watch what happens.  You have a policy that says "don't shoot people in chutes it's not right thing to do".  Even the AI will shoot at you in your chute and kill you if you're the closest enemy to it.  So the AI will kill you for doing the right thing and bailing out.  This from something that can and will attack you from BVR (Beyond visual range) through clouds, over hills, and in valleys.  I didn't realize that AAA during WWii was radar controlled to the point of tracking an enemy it cannot see.  Then why on this virtual earth does it not fire at friendly aircraft also flying above the clouds near them?  Lose three lives over radar controlled 40MM, 20mm, and MG flak and your out because you lost your life counter.

 

4) Experience of players in the game compared to the deaths.  A point in case  The maps started, at the writing of this post, 89 hours ago.  The top 5 pilots have more than 20 hours each.  That's roughly 7 hours a day and one has enough hours to be in the above 8 hours a day category.  How well do you really think a player who plays 2 to 3 hours a week would fare against someone who doubles or triples that daily?  It's a game, it's not real life, and to give someone the death penalty for not being able to compete with a "Professional flight simmer" (what you are called in the gaming world when you practice more than 4 hours a day) while they are a NooB (someone not a professional) is a stupid concept.  The game had a great engine that did punish players for dying.  It took away the aircraft you died in, gave you a five minute time out, and you had to work to get it back.  You would also lose experience points and for those of us that liked the rank system and used it for motivation within the squad it was a great tool.  Now the NooB can be assured when they die they not only get a 5 minute timeout, lose experience rank, and sit a 5 minute timeout but now they are conceptually sent to the closet for not being the top dog.  they lost their life counter.

 

5) The weather.  Yeah the weather being overcast and rainy and snowy all the time (even though it is factually correct) is a bit much.  The ops ran on days such as those described in the thread are of course too much for the gamer who wants to go out find a target from altitude and play with it.  One guy is under the cloud one guy is over and no one gets killed.  Everyone knows the Axis are going to be above the clouds because that is where their air-frames are factually superior and the VVS is under the clouds as their air-frames perform better at slow speed fighting.  Since all the targets are below the clouds you can see how quickly a map gets rolled.  At this pace we'll be done with this campaign by Memorial Day.  Since you won't come up and die and I won't go down and die then you win and the life counter just goes on banning other people who are not so good.

 

6) The defensive posturing that is being brought against those that would have their concerns heard is very much like the shout down mentality of mob rules.  We have the ball, we control the mob, mob go kill anyone with a different point of view.  That's the frustration with all of this nonsense and, for that, is why we JG51Molders have withdrawn our support.  We don't want you to do anything you don't want to do.  However we do want the community that, defends tooth and nail, every single question is being shouted down and pushed aside to understand this is how other sims have lost the respect of the player base.  In Cliffs of Dover today ATAG barely even runs a single full server (they used to have 2 at near capacity).  Many of the other server builders have moved on from Cliffs to DCS and BoX.  This will most likely be my last flight sim as I am getting too old to continue building new machines, set aside time, and enjoy the life I've built for myself.

 

Now if you've made it through this post I hope you have a better understanding of some of the core issues being brought about.  I hope you'll hear the other side of the argument and understand they have concerns that really need to be addressed even if they didn't frame the original statement correctly.  Don't jump on someones post because you didn't understand it and are assuming they are talking about one thing when it's really about another.  Communicate or watch the concept go by the wayside.

 

>S<

JG51_Ogg

CO JG51Molders

 

1) I agree fully.

 

2) Pe-2 isn't the only gunner that is a sniper.  Pretty much any plane with defensive/turret guns is.  It's not the power of the guns either.  A 110, 111, Stuka or 88 has the same ability to snipe - if you're within the turret's traverse range. The AI for all gunners could use tweaking from the devs.  That said ALOT of hurt feelings about being sniped are purely bad approach and the expectation of a granted victory.

 

3) Yes, Flak did have nearly 40,000 feet range (10+Km) and was, at least in long-controlled territory or areas where the equipment could be transported and set up quickly, radar controlled.  While there was some ability to discern radar signatures of different planes, friendly fire still was (and should be, in game) a thing.  Frontline AAA should be not as often radar controlled (but sometimes) and should rely on forward spotters + the fact that larger raids could be heard incoming 30-45+ minutes before any visual was had. Overcast/heavy weather should inhibit radar effectiveness as well.  

 

4) Once again, I agree

 

5)  Personally, I love instrument only flying in blind weather. But...  I recognize that "study sim" aspects of the game aren't exactly most people's cup of tea.  When you find that your 2 hour window to fly for the night and the weather is too adverse to fly the server you want to be a part of, it sucks.   That said,  previous TAWs had heavy weather with blind conditions in the clouds at 2km to 3km then clear skies above.  Snow was never a full-on whited-out blizzard.  I will say that if Axis pilots can't put up a good fight with all the advantages their planes give them with the ceiling at 2km, that's too bad.  Even non-live it, eat-it, sleep it, pilots should still have enough leeway to work with that.  I agree  600m overcast is a bit much. However, when the Axis planes are on the deck in numbers it's far from a winning situation for this early-war VVS set. 

 

6) I only had very limited time in CloD MP, so I can't offer POV on that.  I do agree that being part of a niche group and being good at what one does, doesn't make it ok to put on the "I'm elite. This is only meant for elites. Piss off.", mentality towards others who don't consume so much of the product to get as constipated as they. 

 

~S~

2 minutes ago, Darbzy said:

I can't believe I'm weighing into an internet forum debate here but here goes...

 

I believe the main reason for the three death rule was because of 'suicide jockey' pilots not caring about their stats or if they get killed. I'm a  ground attack guy, and it's frustrating and unrealistic to have guys who migrate over from the bouncy castle (Wings of Liberty) because they see the TAW server is populated, and then fly a 109 up my ass with their eyes shut and finger on the trigger to ram me. Pretty sure they wouldn't do that in real life. I lose a pilot, and they just say "Meh, that was fun" and go back to Call of Duty or Xhamster or whatever.

 

You have to plan very carefully to succeed in TAW and develop tactics that work. Yes, it's VERY frustrating sometimes, particularly when you are playing with new guys. My suggestion would be to train on another server with them and then fly TAW when you think you are ready. Sometimes I spend 15 minutes just staring at the map trying to figure out not only what targets need hitting, but how to find it without getting bounced, and how to attack it without getting killed. It can be done. If you just take off in your Stuka or IL2 and head straight for the front lines to a tank column you'll probably get killed. Just like you would in real life.

 

If you fly fighters and you are in inferior aircraft or outnumbered then fly some defensive patrols over friendly objectives to pounce on bombers. Then, even if you do get shot down you won't get captured. There's always something that needs doing - try flying a transport mission occasionally. 

 

Here are a few tips for ground attackers. (I'm not being condescending here, I genuinely want to see more people play this server because it's the best and they are always trying to improve it)

 

Try not to fly alone and get on comms.

Never loiter over a target, make one pass and haul ass.

Always dive at high speed when attacking a ground target and stay low coming off.

Try to attack towards friendly lines so you are going fast and low towards home base.

On ingress, navigate to an easy to find feature near the target (an initial point or IP) to avoid getting lost and swanning around in enemy territory.

If you level bomb, fly as high as you can and take a fighter or two with you.

 

Out.

 

Bouncy Castle.....  I knew I should have copyrighted that. 😋

 

Yes, a couple fighters can be enough to confuse the flak tracking if they S-turn around the bomber while it is on a high-alt level run.

 

And... I will bend on my "all should play" stance to say that there should be (and are) some server that require at least intermediate level of skill and pre-mission prep to play.  It could be argued that 'expert only' servers should be a thing too, but honestly, I don't think that TAW should go that far unless it can be a sanctioned (by 1c/777) e-sport for-prizes server.  It appears there just isn't enough worldwide interest for that kind of thing.

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12 minutes ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

 

 

 

Bouncy Castle.....  I knew I should have copyrighted that. 😋

 

 

 

Best description ever lol

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Posted (edited)

Ah, the life counter, the straw that broke the camels back. 

 

This one feature alone will be very divisive subject  :)

Edited by CptSiddy
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The team stackers are enraged.... 🤣

 

Looks like I'll be registering for this TAW!!!! It's been a few campaigns. I look forward to signing up. Damn..... I might even register my blue.

On 5/12/2019 at 4:19 PM, JG51_Beazil said:

Right on.  I'm sorry you feel bullied.  You should see a counselor about your hurt feelings.  And yes, I will fly somewhere else, thanks for your permission and endorsement.  Enjoy your campaign.

I guess I just don't understand why the people running the server enjoy these penalties, lock outs and forced side flying.  Apparently, you do.  Nothing wrong with that.  I'm just not that person.  I'm sure you understand.

I'm done wasting my time here.

PS, Ogg and I are different people responding to different people in this topic.  But hey don't let that stop you from stringing together whatever you like from our posts.  Im sure you are enjoying working yourself up into a rightous rebuttal right now.  I can hardly wait.

 

 

 

 

There where more guys who got sick of the side stack and will return if a fair fight solution has been found. If we lose 8 guys but 15 return..... Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

 

This rage from the stackers has me looking forward to this campaign.

 

On 5/11/2019 at 7:34 PM, JG7_X-Man said:

So, to send a mission of 12 USAAF P-51Ds into combat would be roughly cost: ($550,000 USD)*12 = $6.6+ Million USD (...this is per mission)! Yeah - not cheap!

 

 

You are projecting modern constraints onto total war in order to fit a poor argument. Very wordy explanations to justify removal of something you don't like. It's not even a large %.

 

I will counter your poor $$$ argument with the 8th Air Force just because I enjoy the banter.....

Quantity has a quality all on it's own was the Soviet playbook to drive my point home further.

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16 minutes ago, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

 

There where more guys who got sick of the side stack and will return if a fair fight solution has been found. If we lose 8 guys but 15 return..... Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

 

 

 

 

Can you substantiate your numbers?

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, CptSiddy said:

 

Can you substantiate your numbers?

 

Nope, pure BS. I know myself and quite a few others bailed out. I also know that I'm going to be telling my buddies that TAW might not be a waste of time anymore.

 

Admin also took our fairness gripes seriously enough to piss of quite a few players.

On 5/14/2019 at 12:00 PM, =AVG77=REDMAN said:

i just got banned for taking too long to piss between maps. now i can't get back in at all.

 

Time for the finger treatment!!!

Edited by 7./JG26_Smokejumper

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Posted (edited)

This is my first TAW, and I'm wondering how this could work before the 3 lifes limit ...

What avoided "suicide" pilots from entering and making anything ?

 

My first day was really a shock, I died 4 times and game over.

That gave me 24h to think about my strategies, and why they didn't work on this server.

Since, I didn't die again.

 

I like this 3 lifes system, I think it's what difereciates the most this server from the others.

Sometimes dying is a question of bad luck, but dying 3 times, I think is a problem of Strategy

 

Edited by =SFF=_cercataa
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37 minutes ago, =SFF=_cercataa said:

This is my first TAW, and I'm wondering how this could work before the 3 lifes limit ...

What avoided "suicide" pilots from entering and making anything ?

 

You should do 3 combat missions to get a plane for your suicide anything action. For most of the players it is enough. I am positive that the amount of loss for both teams is the same as it was before.

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3 hours ago, StG77_HvB said:

Does the U2VS provide 4% resupply same as the Pe-2?

Yes.

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6 hours ago, JG51_Ogg said:

Well here we go.  Now if you continue to read this maybe you'll understand a few points that are being stated but not understood.  As CO of JG51Molders I have, with the agreement of the leadership, decided to pull our support of the TAW server.  With doing this we will no longer have our squad required to play in the TAW server during the squad night follies.

 

That being said, here is the points being made and being missed by the defenders of the faith.

 

1) Life counter.  A lot of people have real life time frames they need to PLAY the game inside of.  If one day a person has the ability to play 2 maps (4 hours) and dies 3 times because he or she happened to be going to the wrong area with high enemy numbers in 10 minute flight time, their day on the server is over.  Some say "Too bad you died you lose" and "you need to be a better pilot to survive".  Some of you may know about Cliffs of Dover and the ATAG boys.  This "It's our game and we do what we want" mentality is what has forced the mass migration of players from Cliffs to BoX.  Personally I liked Cliffs and we had our own server there, but because of the ATAG/TeamFusion mentality they black balled anyone with a new idea for a server run scenario.  They would ban you from everything ATAG to stop you from even playing with them.  They would short term ban anyone who tried different servers and reported back that it was fun.  Back to the life counter.  You cannot punish someone for being dreadfully inadequate in a flight sim if they don't fly every single day for multiple hours a day.  But this life counter does exactly that.  This goes to many of the following points.

 

2) I see the PE2 spam problem being reported by the Axis players and being poo pooed away by the VVS players.  Very well there may have been a large building of PE2s during this time of the war and it may be factually correct to place that large of an amount of aircraft where they are placed.  But I think the problem being reported as an incorrect problem.  The problem with so many PE2 aircraft brought to the front is that the AI gunners in a PE2 can kill an attacking aircraft before the attackers is within range to fire themselves.  The AI tail gunners also, against moving targets yet, have the accuracy of Vasily Zaitsev  shooting a standing soldier at 50M.  If gunners were so accurate in real life then why even build fighter planes knowing they were fodder for the gun.  Firing 2 12.7mm Mgs at you is bad enough but when they have that accuracy it become ludicrous to put your life counter on the line to attack a PE2 that is flying in the weeds.  The average amount of ammunition fired from a moving bomber/fighter bomber tail-gunner during this time was 3500 rounds for an actual shoot down.  Here it's less than 100 rounds to kill an enemy fighter attacking a PE2.  You're only going to take multiple hits lose an engine then crash before making it home.  You lose a life and then you lose another doing what should be an interesting attack and kill.  Now you're out of your life counter.

 

3) AI AAA is deadly to a fault.  I don't know how many of you have been shot down by enemy AAA in the game and bailed out above 3K altitude but do it sometime.  Watch what happens.  You have a policy that says "don't shoot people in chutes it's not right thing to do".  Even the AI will shoot at you in your chute and kill you if you're the closest enemy to it.  So the AI will kill you for doing the right thing and bailing out.  This from something that can and will attack you from BVR (Beyond visual range) through clouds, over hills, and in valleys.  I didn't realize that AAA during WWii was radar controlled to the point of tracking an enemy it cannot see.  Then why on this virtual earth does it not fire at friendly aircraft also flying above the clouds near them?  Lose three lives over radar controlled 40MM, 20mm, and MG flak and your out because you lost your life counter.

 

4) Experience of players in the game compared to the deaths.  A point in case  The maps started, at the writing of this post, 89 hours ago.  The top 5 pilots have more than 20 hours each.  That's roughly 7 hours a day and one has enough hours to be in the above 8 hours a day category.  How well do you really think a player who plays 2 to 3 hours a week would fare against someone who doubles or triples that daily?  It's a game, it's not real life, and to give someone the death penalty for not being able to compete with a "Professional flight simmer" (what you are called in the gaming world when you practice more than 4 hours a day) while they are a NooB (someone not a professional) is a stupid concept.  The game had a great engine that did punish players for dying.  It took away the aircraft you died in, gave you a five minute time out, and you had to work to get it back.  You would also lose experience points and for those of us that liked the rank system and used it for motivation within the squad it was a great tool.  Now the NooB can be assured when they die they not only get a 5 minute timeout, lose experience rank, and sit a 5 minute timeout but now they are conceptually sent to the closet for not being the top dog.  they lost their life counter.

 

5) The weather.  Yeah the weather being overcast and rainy and snowy all the time (even though it is factually correct) is a bit much.  The ops ran on days such as those described in the thread are of course too much for the gamer who wants to go out find a target from altitude and play with it.  One guy is under the cloud one guy is over and no one gets killed.  Everyone knows the Axis are going to be above the clouds because that is where their air-frames are factually superior and the VVS is under the clouds as their air-frames perform better at slow speed fighting.  Since all the targets are below the clouds you can see how quickly a map gets rolled.  At this pace we'll be done with this campaign by Memorial Day.  Since you won't come up and die and I won't go down and die then you win and the life counter just goes on banning other people who are not so good.

 

6) The defensive posturing that is being brought against those that would have their concerns heard is very much like the shout down mentality of mob rules.  We have the ball, we control the mob, mob go kill anyone with a different point of view.  That's the frustration with all of this nonsense and, for that, is why we JG51Molders have withdrawn our support.  We don't want you to do anything you don't want to do.  However we do want the community that, defends tooth and nail, every single question is being shouted down and pushed aside to understand this is how other sims have lost the respect of the player base.  In Cliffs of Dover today ATAG barely even runs a single full server (they used to have 2 at near capacity).  Many of the other server builders have moved on from Cliffs to DCS and BoX.  This will most likely be my last flight sim as I am getting too old to continue building new machines, set aside time, and enjoy the life I've built for myself.

 

Now if you've made it through this post I hope you have a better understanding of some of the core issues being brought about.  I hope you'll hear the other side of the argument and understand they have concerns that really need to be addressed even if they didn't frame the original statement correctly.  Don't jump on someones post because you didn't understand it and are assuming they are talking about one thing when it's really about another.  Communicate or watch the concept go by the wayside.

 

>S<

JG51_Ogg

CO JG51Molders

I don’t think I can agree with you. I am not a very good pilot, yet I have died only once this campaign (from a pe2 gunner sniping me while flying 600kph at a 60 degree intersect, so yes, gunners are a bit too strong). And i was rarely flying above 3km, usually right in the fight. 

 

The live system forces you to fly smart & I like that. Almost every time you get shot you can either bail or ditch & not lose a live. It punishes suicide attacks & that is good. 

 

After i was sniper in a 111 at 5km from flak I too thought it was too strong, but after flying some more I don’t think it is more dangerous than before. I have done plenty of bomb runs in a 110 against defenses & bridges and wasn’t hit by flak once. 

 

The 110 is also the solution against pe2s. I never flew it much in past campaigns but now it has become my favorite plane for the first few maps.  You can bomb something & then protect friendly objectives against pe2s. Your armor mostly protects your pilot & the centerline 20mm with unlimited ammo allow you to shoot from far away. I lose an engine from time to time but luckily the 110 can fly home with 1 engine perfectly fine. 

 

The only plane that has a hard time dealing with pe2s are 109 e7 because of their low effective firing range. I’m pretty sure an i16 attacking a 111 or 88 feels the same way...

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