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Tactical Air War

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1 hour ago, SKG210_Werner_Molders said:

 

I don't aim to become the infallible ground attacker of the LW but I would like to have, at least, the chance to engage this kind of targets alo if I fly alone or with other 2-3 players. ( not all units are big ones ).

There is actually not any kind of efforts made by the LW virtual units to fly coordinated missions so, that you like it or not, if you are not part of a big unit you are forced to fly alone or in 2-3 max ( if you're lucky to find this number of " free " players ) and so of consequence, due to this, there's no chance to survive this kind of encounters in any way actually if you approach them in small numbers.

 

 

 

I've been flying Jabo almost all my life in IL2 (quite a lot), I have to say, flying alone or reduced groups it's almost always suicide, you don't need snipers manning the AAA, it's just maths, every single AAA would be turning to you as soon they "activate" and chances are, you are going to get hit.
After that, being badly hit or just receiving few holes in the fuselage is a matter of luck, mine is the unlucky side mostly.


There's a technique to attack in pair objetives capped with AAA, but it takes time and air superiority, things that normally Taw won't give you.

I think requesting help on chat could kinda help you in your lone/reduce sorties, we always ask, and most of the time few people reply and try to help.
Nevertheless it's not like planning an attack on your TS with your mates, but trust me, it helps having few hunters over your head taking care of possible CAP in zone.
 

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Ala13_elchinodecai said:

 

 

 

I've been flying Jabo almost all my life in IL2 (quite a lot), I have to say, flying alone or reduced groups it's almost always suicide, you don't need snipers manning the AAA, it's just maths, every single AAA would be turning to you as soon they "activate" and chances are, you are going to get hit.
After that, being badly hit or just receiving few holes in the fuselage is a matter of luck, mine is the unlucky side mostly.


There's a technique to attack in pair objetives capped with AAA, but it takes time and air superiority, things that normally Taw won't give you.

I think requesting help on chat could kinda help you in your lone/reduce sorties, we always ask, and most of the time few people reply and try to help.
Nevertheless it's not like planning an attack on your TS with your mates, but trust me, it helps having few hunters over your head taking care of possible CAP in zone.
 

Also if I highly appreciate your reply and advice ( advice are always more than welcome here ) this is not what I was intending with my post.

Although I have only 97 hours of play in this game ( I've bought Battle of Stalingrad in 2016 if I remeber correctly but I've started playing it just recently ) I have a long history of playing online and in particular with the Bf 110 ( about 5700 hours of flight using the Bf 110 in Il-2 Cliffs of Dover, just to quote one ) and I have also a big passion about what were the best tacticts that were used by real pilots performing this task ( or the ones that are the best to be used in a game ) so I know pretty well how to reduce to the mininum the risks linked to a low level attack ( and as you know you can be trained about it as much as you want but there is always the " imponderable " that could happen at any time )...but here, with the current levels of skill of the AI gunners, the story is different...you can use whatever " deception " tactic against the flak you want, and the AAA fire will allways hit you with a precision of the 99% of the times also if you fly in a horizontal line in respect to them ( so to offer a small fast moving target in respect to them ).

Here the wrong thing, said in brief, is not the tactic used or the skill of the attacking pilot but the fact that is an artificial aiming bot firing at you that always will predict with a 100% accuracy your presumed next position during the attack, so due to this, the AI gunner will be always able to hit you like if you are fixed point in the sky....and that's absolutely wrong if your intention is to try to recreate a WW2 " realistic " environment. The flak fire was dangerous, in certain areas very heavy but in the whole WW2 it has never been a perfect science able to hit the attacking plane with an accuracy so high as we have actually in the campaign. I hope you get the point of what I mean. S!

Edited by SKG210_Werner_Molders
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Posted (edited)

i just got banned for taking too long to piss between maps. now i can't get back in at all.

Edited by =AVG77=REDMAN
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16 minutes ago, SKG210_Werner_Molders said:

Also if I highly appreciate your reply and advice ( advice are always more than welcome here ) this is not what I was intending with my post.

Although I have only 97 hours of play in this game ( I've bought Battle of Stalingrad in 2016 if I remeber correctly but I've started playing it just recently ) I have a long history of playing online and in particular with the Bf 110 ( about 5700 hours of flight using the Bf 110 in Il-2 Cliffs of Dover, just to quote one ) and I have also a big passion about what were the best tacticts that were used by real pilots performing this task ( or the ones that are the best to be used in a game ) so I know pretty well how to reduce to the mininum the risks linked to a low level attack ( and as you know you can be trained about it as much as you want but there is always the " imponderable " that could happen at any time )...but here, with the current levels of skill of the AI gunners, the story is different...you can use whatever " deception " tactic against the flak you want, and the AAA fire will allways hit you with a precision of the 99% of the times also if you fly in a horizontal line in respect to them ( so to offer a small fast moving target in respect to them ).

Here the wrong thing, said in brief, is not the tactic used or the skill of the attacking pilot but the fact that is an artificial aiming bot firing at you that always will predict with a 100% accuracy your presumed next position during the attack, so due to this, the AI gunner will be always able to hit you like if you are fixed point in the sky....and that's absolutely wrong if your intention is to try to recreate a WW2 " realistic " environment. The flak fire was dangerous, in certain areas very heavy but in the whole WW2 it has never been a perfect science able to hit the attacking plane with an accuracy so high as we have actually in the campaign. I hope you get the point of what I mean. S!

Check costal command black friday od 1945 and what happens when the target is under attack by small groups at a time and from one direction instead od the whole squadron attacking and swaping the defences from different directions.

 

In taw the attacks are not like in real life by  squadrons but done by smallgroups or single planes against aaa which for the targets IT protects is quite numerous.

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, =AVG77=REDMAN said:

i just got banned for taking too long to piss between maps. now i can't get back in at all.

If I were a betting person, I'd think that was an unintended consequence.  A funny and probably frustrating one, to be sure.  At least changes are being made to better reflect the vision the hosts have for this server.  I hope your issue gets resolved soon.

Edited by JG51_Beazil

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Carl_infar said:

Check costal command black friday od 1945 and what happens when the target is under attack by small groups at a time and from one direction instead od the whole squadron attacking and swaping the defences from different directions.

 

In taw the attacks are not like in real life by  squadrons but done by smallgroups or single planes against aaa which for the targets IT protects is quite numerous.

Well this is quite anecdotal...as you can quote this example I can quote 100 others where that didn't happened ( and so we will end up only " defending " our points of view going forward on this line and not solving the real game " problem " ).

In addition, in my opinion, it has not a lot of sense trying to fully replicate what happened in WW2 in a game due to the fact that, for the best that you can get close to it, it will be ( fortunately! ) never the same as the real war for obvious reasons.

 

Somehow, taking into account this and the fact that we are speaking of a game, we can surely speak about the gameplay and at least trying to find a " sweet spot " that could better match the game dynamics and players preferences.

I presume that no one of us want the exact same thing as it was the real aerial war ( so otherwise the first time that you will be killed in a game sortie, you should stop playing it because you have been " killed " ) but we can possibly find a balance between what were the historical events and the gameplay in a game that we play, all, well sit on our game chairs and in front of our PC screens. ;)

Edited by SKG210_Werner_Molders

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44 minutes ago, SKG210_Werner_Molders said:

Also if I highly appreciate your reply and advice ( advice are always more than welcome here ) this is not what I was intending with my post.

Although I have only 97 hours of play in this game ( I've bought Battle of Stalingrad in 2016 if I remeber correctly but I've started playing it just recently ) I have a long history of playing online and in particular with the Bf 110 ( about 5700 hours of flight using the Bf 110 in Il-2 Cliffs of Dover, just to quote one ) and I have also a big passion about what were the best tacticts that were used by real pilots performing this task ( or the ones that are the best to be used in a game ) so I know pretty well how to reduce to the mininum the risks linked to a low level attack ( and as you know you can be trained about it as much as you want but there is always the " imponderable " that could happen at any time )...but here, with the current levels of skill of the AI gunners, the story is different...you can use whatever " deception " tactic against the flak you want, and the AAA fire will allways hit you with a precision of the 99% of the times also if you fly in a horizontal line in respect to them ( so to offer a small fast moving target in respect to them ).

Here the wrong thing, said in brief, is not the tactic used or the skill of the attacking pilot but the fact that is an artificial aiming bot firing at you that always will predict with a 100% accuracy your presumed next position during the attack, so due to this, the AI gunner will be always able to hit you like if you are fixed point in the sky....and that's absolutely wrong if your intention is to try to recreate a WW2 " realistic " environment. The flak fire was dangerous, in certain areas very heavy but in the whole WW2 it has never been a perfect science able to hit the attacking plane with an accuracy so high as we have actually in the campaign. I hope you get the point of what I mean. S!

Flying the Battle of Britain model Bf-110s (a.k.a. the "escort fighter that needed it's own escort fighters") is a bit different than the light bomber/destroyer models they were reassigned to being on the Eastern Front....but that's besides the point.  

 

I'm still going to say what I posted on the previous page of this thread most likely stands.  If you're getting hit extremely easily, you might want to rethink your tactics.  I've flown in enemy territory a few times at different altitudes with I-16s and Pe-2s - both of which underperform in most ways compared to a 110 and have yet to eat a direct hit from a flak burst.  Then again I don't fly with autolevel on ever, nor do I stay glued to one heading or alt for very long.  Even if it's small variations and as long as it's not a predictable, even zig-zag, I have no problem. 

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

Flying the Battle of Britain model Bf-110s (a.k.a. the "escort fighter that needed it's own escort fighters") is a bit different than the light bomber/destroyer models they were reassigned to being on the Eastern Front....but that's besides the point.  

 

I'm still going to say what I posted on the previous page of this thread most likely stands.  If you're getting hit extremely easily, you might want to rethink your tactics.  I've flown in enemy territory a few times at different altitudes with I-16s and Pe-2s - both of which underperform in most ways compared to a 110 and have yet to eat a direct hit from a flak burst.  Then again I don't fly with autolevel on ever, nor do I stay glued to one heading or alt for very long.  Even if it's small variations and as long as it's not a predictable, even zig-zag, I have no problem. 

As said above there seems to be quite a difference in the AI gunners levels that you encounter if you fly Red that " apparently " seems to be more " easy " ( and also the movements of the front line seems to reflect this ) about attacking enemy flak columns. Maybe I'm wrong ( and I hope it's so ) but this should be at least checked\tested.

At least here on the Blue side the two times I've attemped to get close to an enemy vehicle column, alone, I'm been shoot by " snipers " well away from being even close to it ( and the AI gunners didn't have a clear visual on me because they were firing in a forest between trees )...and permit me to say that I have the " feeling " that this happened not due to a wrong approach tactic or due to " unlucky events ".

40 minutes ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

Flying the Battle of Britain model Bf-110s (a.k.a. the "escort fighter that needed it's own escort fighters") 

 

 

The worst quote you can ever  have put in emphasis. This demonstrates only to have a very general ( wrong ) idea about the Bf 110 due to Allied  " of part " litterature and disinformationn and little knowledge about the real Bf 110 facts and events. Read with attention the historical mission reports of the pilots flying the Bf 110s ( and of their units ) and you will at least starting questioning your " reliable source of information " that you have read until now about the Bf 110. 

Your quote is correct pretty much like saying that the correct designation of the Bf 110 is Me 110...You should let read your quote above to the Bf 110 pilot that shot down 5 Spitfires in one sortie during the BoB... 😂 ;) S!

Edited by SKG210_Werner_Molders
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4 hours ago, SKG210_Werner_Molders said:

I can assure you that doing the same thing on the Blue side corresponds to a mere suicide if you fly alone or in 2-3.

 

I experienced the same thing flying red yesterday, but I’m fine with it. The alternative is a single pilot in a fully loaded IL-2 or 110 destroying half of a target area in one sortie. 

 

There are still many viable ways to hit a target and survive:

 

1) Take our the fixed AA positions from mid-altitude level bombing first

 

or

 

2) Come in fast and hard and be satisfied with just one pass over the target (that’s what the Soviets learned, hence the IL-10 wasn’t able to carry as much ordinance as the IL-2, because it wasn’t meant to hang around over the target long)

 

or

 

3) Use chat to organize a flight of 2-3 attackers plus one or two fighters to cover and distract the AA

 

or

 

4) Learn how to execute curving diving attacks that lessen the chance of getting hit on the attack run. This is hard but it works when executed well.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Norz said:

 

My proposal is to sell +1 live for 1€ (kidding). 

 

I think that this limitation (only 3 lives pro map)  will reduce the number of players. For me, personally, 3*8 lives is not good idea at all.

 

I think gaining 1 life every 2 map rotations (~4 hrs) is better. Now it is 24 hour ban regenerates 1 life, ~12 map rotations. This will not workout well for the weekend warriors among us.

 

What Norz is what I think is going to happen. which will hurt the side with the fewer pilots in the air.

Edited by JG7_X-Man
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Any new guys to TAW should check out H’s ground attacker handbook. He’s leant it all the hard way. You can download the PDF through these forums for free and/or follow the link below this video on his YouTube page.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, AirshowDisaster said:

 

Are you kidding? TAW is, like, filled to absolute capacity for nearly half the day every day and almost the entire weekend. Why lie? The only time it's ever 'dead' is around 6am GMT which is understandable considering it's European audience.



There is roughly 6 to 8 hour period depending on week day/weekend day where servers are filled to the gills. 
The life and balance system actually help during those times. If you die during peak hours, give way to the next pilot. 

During the slow times, the balance system helps against the 20 - 5 team stacks but the life system absolutely punish people flying then. No matter what side you are on, there is no need to punish active players needlessly during those times. There is no reason to limit peoples access to server if they are not losing 3 lifes/2h by doing the META GAMER thing (suicide bombing/strafing of AF etc...). Even losing one life every other day to ground attacking will squeeze players out, and totally needlessly. Instead of punishing yoloing, you punish players with normal attrition rates for average ground attacker (statistically). 

 

This life system needs some refinement, because right now it causes problems for the 18 hours of the slow part of the day and work only for the 8 congested ones. 
I understand that it was prolly designed for the peaks, but man, not everyone play during the peaks. And off peak hours, the life system totally fails. 
Changing it to add extra life every 20h, up to 3/3 lifes would go long way to make it better in my humble opinion. 

Edited by CptSiddy
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Why, if we do not have more lives, not be able to recover them by making cargo flights ?

If you are dead at the front, as much as you can stay active behind the front.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Carl_infar said:

Funny to see people who state that they dont fly current taw but still come and drop their 5cents ... 

 

 

Oh don't worry, I flew the current TAW today, and after dropping my "5cents", I also dropped a couple tons of bombs and 1 and half Red aircraft. That's hilarious! :lol:

Edited by =BAIT=CG_Justin

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6 hours ago, SKG210_Werner_Molders said:

 

Your quote is correct pretty much like saying that the correct designation of the Bf 110 is Me 110...You should let read your quote above to the Bf 110 pilot that shot down 5 Spitfires in one sortie during the BoB... 😂 ;) S!

"Bf" and "Me" designations are interchangeable based on what documents were created about them during the war.  One factory office would refer to it as Bf, another war department office would refer to the same planes as Me.  Same difference depending on who wrote the documents.

 

As for the110 pilot who you say performed an "Ace in a flight" in real combat....   I'd attribute that more to fine airmanship much more than the plane (except for ammo capacity). It is a fact that the Bf/Me 110 was pulled from the BoB due to poor performance and the realization that it couldn't fulfill it's originally intended purpose as a "heavy fighter".  The reason why it shows up on the Eastern Front in newer models is due to the fact that it was reassigned as a fast ground attacker and tank destroyer.

 

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3 hours ago, Axurit said:

Why, if we do not have more lives, not be able to recover them by making cargo flights ?

If you are dead at the front, as much as you can stay active behind the front.

 

Actually, IMO this is a good idea - at least this way, if you are out of lives and have to wait 24 hours to fly a combat aircraft that can contribute to offensive/defensive activities, you can still contribute flying transport missions, plus as suggested maybe earn lives, a single life or even a partial life after so many transport missions.

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6 minutes ago, AKA_Relent said:

 

Actually, IMO this is a good idea - at least this way, if you are out of lives and have to wait 24 hours to fly a combat aircraft that can contribute to offensive/defensive activities, you can still contribute flying transport missions, plus as suggested maybe earn lives, a single life or even a partial life after so many transport missions.

Good idea but.....what to do with the server overcrowding problem...?

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13 minutes ago, =FPS=Cutlass said:

Good idea but.....what to do with the server overcrowding problem...?

Yeah, maybe the 0 lives pilots can only join (and of course can only pick a transport plane) if the server is only partially (e.g. 50% or less) full.  I don't know.. just an idea to allow folks that want to contribute to do so.  Otherwise the 24 hour wait can sometimes end up being 48 hours - assuming, for example, you lost your last life at the end of your usual night of flying, just before bed.  So that means that basically you can't fly the next night but have to wait another night.  This way you may have something to do/contribute.

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Posted (edited)

I initially was unsure of 3 lives rule....now im a believer, play like your life matters, it's not hard.  Keep it!

Edited by Banzaii
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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Banzaii said:

I initially was unsure of 3 lives rule....now im a believer, play like your life matters, it's not hard.  Keep it!

 

I hope you get field bombed by XJammer :^) 

 

Our favorite Power gamer doing the gods work! 

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot.php?name=red110

 

 

20 player kills for 3 deaths... this has all the potential to go places :^) 

Edited by CptSiddy
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15 minutes ago, Banzaii said:

I initially was unsure of 3 lives rule....now im a believer, play like your life matters, it's not hard.  Keep it!

 

Oh, rest assured, I do.   I've noticed others do as well and get punished anyway.  This is becoming Wings of Ban-erty.

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11 minutes ago, Banzaii said:

I initially was unsure of 3 lives rule....now im a believer, play like your life matters, it's not hard.  Keep it!

 

Yeah its great.... I jumped on TAW last night with Justin and Hardekoning. Took out 3 AA guns in my 110 and was on my way to tanks. Got jumped by 2 ratas that promptly made mince meat of me. Oh well, I bailed and was enjoying the beautiful sunrise until one of them (Riksen or GIFTHART) chutekilled me.😬😬😬😬😬

 

I left and flew on KOTA with Shadow and Yorkshire.... there were only 3 people online and I still thoroughly enjoyed it. I can see why a lot of people enjoy single player missions.

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, CptSiddy said:

 

I hope you get field bombed by XJammer :^) 

 

Our favorite Power gamer doing the gods work! 

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot.php?name=red110

 

 

20 player kills for 3 deaths... this has all the potential to go places :^) 

 


Yeah, I lost one life to the xJammer Express earlier tonight in just that fashion.  Never had a chance.    😄

Honestly, field raids don't bother me too much, but what annoys me is when it's always in the last few seconds of a mission so any possibility of retaliation is off the table.   I'd love pilots over enemy territory or at least near major airfields when the round ends to risk capture.   The last minute one-way missions in which the attacker bombs the crap out of a field or warehouse and magically teleports back home safely feels bad. 

 

Edited by [JG52t]whitecrow

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3 minutes ago, [JG52t]whitecrow said:


Yeah, I lost one life to the xJammer Express earlier tonight in just that fashion.  Never had a chance.    😄

Honestly, field raids don't bother me too much, but what annoys me is when it's always in the last few seconds of a mission so any possibility of retaliation is off the table.   I'd love pilots over enemy territory or at least near major airfields when the round ends to risk capture.   The last minute one-way missions in which the attacker magically teleports back home safely feels bad. 

 

 

 

Right now he is doing it alone, now imagine if he starts to build up following...  

 

The life system in its current forms paints an obvious bulls eye to be exploited. I will predict it will not survive in its current form for long. 

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1 hour ago, AKA_Relent said:

Oui, peut-être que les pilotes à 0 vies ne peuvent rejoindre (et bien sûr, ne peuvent choisir un avion de transport) que si le serveur n'est que partiellement (par exemple, 50% ou moins). Je ne sais pas .. juste une idée pour permettre aux gens qui veulent contribuer de le faire. Sinon, l'attente de 24 heures peut parfois durer jusqu'à 48 heures - en supposant, par exemple, que vous ayez perdu votre dernière vie à la fin de votre nuit de vol habituelle, juste avant de vous coucher. Cela signifie donc que, fondamentalement, vous ne pouvez pas prendre l'avion la nuit suivante mais devez attendre une autre nuit. De cette façon, vous pouvez avoir quelque chose à faire / contribuer.

 

That's exactly it, last night I lost 2 lives, so I stopped playing, for fear of not being able to play today.
And if I lose the last one tonight I can not play until Friday.

The time we have to play is reduced for some people, it should not keep as TAW experience to watch others play, because an idiot hit you on the taxi.

The rule of 3 lives is good, but we must have the opportunity to find them flying, not watching the time that is precious.

The cargo flight is beneficial for the conduct of the campaign, this is an opportunity to make it as interesting for the player.

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Make any deaths before take off not count towards your life counter sounds pretty reasonable.

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2 minutes ago, -332FG-Garven said:

Make any deaths before take off not count towards your life counter sounds pretty reasonable.

How about landing? 

 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, CptSiddy said:

How about landing? 

 

Meh. not necessary IMO.  Your not clumped together with a bunch of others in a predetermined spot on landing and you can hit the gas if you see a bomber bearing down on you. 

Edited by -332FG-Garven

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, -332FG-Garven said:

Meh. not necessary IMO.  Your not clumped together in a predetermined spot on landing and you can hit the gas if you see a bomber bearing down on you. 

 

 

Well, i think bombing a pilot barracks from field should give 50% chance of  -1 life to any players who has last landed on that field (and are offline currently)

 

It is realistikkikikik :crazy:

Edited by CptSiddy
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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, CptSiddy said:

 

 

Well, i think bombing a pilot barracks from field give 50% chance  -1 life to any players who has used that field in last 2 maps. 

 

It is realistikkikikik :crazy:

I don't know about you, but I don't spend nights at the airbase I land at;).

Edited by -332FG-Garven

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Just now, -332FG-Garven said:

I don't know about you, but I don't spend nights at base;).

 

You do if you are in hostile country and any young lass might be a part of partisan underground resistance. 

 

But hey, lets have an option to tick on your profile "dont spend a night at base" and then you will have 30% of getting captured by partisans and 20% chance of getting Syphilis and fly with 50% pilot wounded state red smudgy screen and scream uncontrollably every time you pee :biggrin:

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2 hours ago, Balancer said:

 

You do if you are in hostile country and any young lass might be a part of partisan underground resistance. 

 

But hey, lets have an option to tick on your profile "dont spend a night at base" and then you will have 30% of getting captured by partisans and 20% chance of getting Syphilis and fly with 50% pilot wounded state red smudgy screen and scream uncontrollably every time you pee :biggrin:

 

Damn that got dark really fast. 🧟🧟🧟

 

Insert some US Army VD training videos here! 🤣🤣🤣

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I have to say - I hate to opine a day after I said I wouldnt - I noticed a lot less players at times last night.  The thing is though I dont have a solution! The lives are totally necessary IMO - it makes the server what it is.  

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2 hours ago, Rekt said:

 

Insert some US Army VD training videos here! 🤣🤣🤣

 

Saw 1 from the WW2 era that had the best quote:   "It's like showering with your rain gear on!".  

Just now, Sublime said:

I have to say - I hate to opine a day after I said I wouldnt - I noticed a lot less players at times last night.  The thing is though I dont have a solution! The lives are totally necessary IMO - it makes the server what it is.  

There's not even away to punch some bricks and get a 1up, though, come to think of it, 24 hour bans might make you want to punch some bricks.... 

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9 minutes ago, ITAF_Rani said:

One question are custom skins available in the server?

Yes. 

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