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Tactical Air War

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Posted (edited)
5 минут назад, Pict сказал:

 

The only thing that was clear to me was that you were trying to shut down debate on a forum by trying to humiliate someone about the amount of flying time they had put in, thereby attempting to humiliate everyone else with a similar number of hours.

 

I don't find that cool or acceptable.

 

Clear?

You are not the only one. This is his way to argue or to discuss something that he doesn't agree with, to switch to persona (hours, kills, times, skill level, etc). You will get used to it... just ignore it if you wanna save your time lol 

Edited by 72AGs_Obi
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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, 72AGs_Obi said:

You are not the only one. This is his way to argue or to discuss something that he doesn't agree with, to switch to persona (hours, kills, times, skill level, etc). You will get used to it... just ignore it if you wanna save your time lol 

 

Nice. I like it every time if some talk about numbers or stats will turn to feelings. I prefer to operate with the numbers (hours, kills, times)

Edited by Norz

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7 minutes ago, 72AGs_Obi said:

just ignore it if you wanna save your time

 

Done :)

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Posted (edited)
6 минут назад, Norz сказал:

 

Nice. I like it every time if some talk about numbers or stats will turn to feelings. I prefer to operate with the numbers (hours, kills, times)

Only if numbers have any meaning, otherwise, it is just something that was cut off of the content and used for your advantage. I am done. Thanks Norz, we started wobbling again. No more. 

Edited by 72AGs_Obi
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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, JG4_Kruger said:

Hey Admins, Thank you for this great Campaign!!!

 

Since the last two Campaigns Me and some Squadmembers of JG4 where thinking about changes on the Campaign to prevent Suicidemission, also some of the =LG= Members already heared of them. So here is the result of 4 Month of thinking and discussions within the JG4-Squadron:

 

At first some Points of Understanding:
My understanding is that the Tactical Air War Campaign should have a more "Hardcore-Historical" approach to some degree in comparison other servers in this Game, so with this in mind getting killed or captured shout have a massive impact and to be a real pain for the individual Pilot. I will try to give a Concept to achive this on a "moderate" way that not completely demoralizes people with approaches from other campaigns i flow in, but try to get every one a reason to rethink about every flight before they even take-off.

The Server has the "+1 System" so everyone can fly at least something, this is a good Thing that I will come back later on this. There are Players how fly often an some who can and will not, this must be noted. Also must be noted that some are better Pilots and some are not. There are Bomberpilots and Fighterpilots that face very different Risks on there flights. Also some Pilots doing Operational Tasks within there Squadron and will therefore not be able to constantly shoot down stuff. There are also Pilots who care about the Stats, the XP system and Pilots that do totally not.

All this and possibly a lot more needs to be considered when developing such a change in a given System.

 

The Way you get Aircraft is good in the System that you have and it should not be changed at all, but somehow the gears must be shifted... so which gear will be the right one. I think it should be the Aircrafts you lose not the one you get and I will work with this and the +1 System.

 

The Idea:

1. If a Player gets Killed or Captured, he should lose everything because he is "not there anymore" or "the new guy on the front again". So at first: the People looking at the Stats and XP... all the XP should be completely gone. If you get killed or captured on the last Map with 10000 XP you are at 0!

 

The Pilot already lost all its XP but some of them wont care, so how to be painful to them?

2. The Player was killed or captured, he loses ALL! his aircraft. Sounds hard right?... good. Because he is the new guy, take this old thing and come with us 😄 . A good Pilot is a good Pilot because of his skills, not his Aircraft so he will be soon back up again in his La-5 or Bf 109 G4... what ever he prefers.

When I say ALL I really mean ALL of them so for the maximum next two Hours he is out of the Game by definition... Not even Supply because it can be a Gamechanger to some Point. Time to rethink his actions and what was going wrong, especially what he did wrong.

Bad side-effect: Some People will possibly get more encouraged to Chute-shooting, but they will always do it as long as it is possible!

 

No XP, no Aircrafts... Is he out for the rest of the Campaign?... How should he fly again with no Aircraft left?

3. This is where I come back to the "+1 System": On the Next Mission (after those maximum two hours) he will get his +1 Aircrafts. This means he has after some Time to think at least something to fly with. It is not the best Material but we have Supplymissions for that ;) . But as I sad: it is not the Aircraft, it will always be the Pilot on the Stick. Aaaaaaaaaaaaand he is the new guy at the Unit ;)

 

With all this People need to Fly more "awake" and think about there actions and plans! flying alone is dangerous! flying head over heals is dangerous!

 

4. AAA at the Airfields and Depots should be back at the next Mission is also a good Idea i think

 

 

At the end I have some extras but I did not evaluated there impact, or if its even possible:

5. Squadron-Hangars: If one is constantly loosing Aircrafts it gets a problem for everyone.

 

6. Textinfos of enemy aircrafts are late and that is okey to give them all a chance (even a Po-2 :D), but they should have a Course and Altitude Info (even Altitude alone would be nice), if this is possible somehow

 

Just my thoughts...

Be aware: People with skill will always adapt to the situation they find them self in and not complain about it. (Should also be a good hint for some mostly annoying People in this threat!)

 

 

Thank you again for the GREATEST IL-2: BoX CAMPAIGN!!!

JG4_Kruger

 

PS.: lol, my first Post in this Forum ... sorry for some bad english😄

 

Just to at:

4.5. Coldstart should be turned back on. It could prevent at least some people from always using the Front-Airfields... and if you aren't able to start up the Aircraft.... Just learn it!
I think it is not much to ask for to set the Throttle between 10-20% on start-up (no Aircraft would start-up at Idle-Cut off!)

Edited by JG4_Kruger
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Posted (edited)

I started flying on this server just a couple weeks ago, it’s great!

 

A few years ago I regularly flew on a campaign server in the IL-2 1946 game, I forgot what it was called but it was a Russian server with most of the instructions and conversation in Russian. It was ran very well and I will share two ideas from that server for consideration here:

 

Limitations on the best new planes. Hot new planes were available only to top ranked pilots, and only in small amounts. So for example on the second or third map from late 1941 the 109-F4 would become available, but there would only be 20 of them, and only for the top ranks. Once they were all destroyed then that’s it, even the top pilots would have to go back to the 109E. On susbsequent maps the F4 would become more numerous and more easily available to lower ranks, but the G2 would be the hot new plane, and so on.

 

More spread out and better defended ground targets. No single low-level attacker could be effective against any 100% healthy ground target, the AA would be too tough. If you were alone you had to come in and exit very fast, hit the edge of the target, and be satisfied with one or two ground kills while limping home with some significant damage. At the same time, the ground targets were spread out a lot more so it was possible to nibble at the edges without drawing AA fire from the other edge. A group of 3-4 coordinated attackers could do some decent damage and expect to return home most of the time.

 

Keep up the great work!

Edited by WokeUpDead
Added more details to clarify ideas
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2 hours ago, Norz said:

Can't agree. There was not about to discuss something . Some players claimed that the axis team (or better to say 12 players) found the exploit and used it.

But every player on both sides can do it. I see no problem here before the admins will say it is not allowed. 

Maybe it's different AA?
Which AAs were removed from the red side seems 2 or 3 campaigns ago?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Norz said:

 

Nice. I like it every time if some talk about numbers or stats will turn to feelings. I prefer to operate with the numbers (hours, kills, times)

 

but not numbers as in............perhaps, number of blue players compared to red, how convenient.

 

4 hours ago, Norz said:

 

What I can say. For the person, who spent 13 hours by the last round you wrote a lot about the competition.

Total flight time 13h 5m

 

That is the reason why the axis team is outnumbered. You prefer to write instead to play.

 

 

 

why do you think i only flew 13 hours norz? come on, lets see if you get it yet.....come on, its gotta be rattling around in there somewhere, why did i only fly 13 hours? 

Edited by SYN_Repent

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, SYN_Repent said:

 

but not numbers as in............perhaps, number of blue players compared to red, how convenient.

 

 

why do you think i only flew 13 hours norz? come on, lets see if you get it yet.....come on, its gotta be rattling around in there somewhere, why did i only fly 13 hours? 

 

I guess because the world is not fair enough for you or your team last campaign. Am i right? I wrote it several times, yes, the axis team is outnumbered. But i never wrote that it is unbalanced. I like first 2 maps and just enjoy them on the red side. You know. i like to play the chess not only white.

24 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

Maybe it's different AA?
Which AAs were removed from the red side seems 2 or 3 campaigns ago?

 

Better to ask the admins. I have no idea. I was killed a lot of times and for me AAAs still dangerous enough.

Edited by Norz

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Thx to admins for another TAW.

 

For me become one of the worst TAW ever...  but TAW continues ben best il2 competition for me.

 

At beginning of TAW history problem was reds win always... now seems is the opposite  . Some reworks seems is needed. Reall 6-1 Score dont talk about balanced campaing.

 

Thx for you effort . Thx for all participated.

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10 hours ago, JG4_Kruger said:

 

Just my thoughts...

Be aware: People with skill will always adapt to the situation they find them self in and not complain about it. (Should also be a good hint for some mostly annoying People in this threat!)

 

 

 

Coming from someone who flies only the unbalanced side with the easiest and most powerful aircraft and is so afraid to lose that advantage they take up VVS slots as spectators, that is a joke.  You've managed to become an armchair-armchair pilot in this game full of armchair pilots, a rare accomplishment.  I suppose that is itself a kind of adaptation.

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13 minutes ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

 

 

Coming from someone who flies only the unbalanced side with the easiest and most powerful aircraft and is so afraid to lose that advantage they take up VVS slots as spectators, that is a joke.  You've managed to become an armchair-armchair pilot in this game full of armchair pilots, a rare accomplishment.  I suppose that is itself a kind of adaptation.

 

exactly as i said, they should be embarrassed, i bet on their squad forums they are handing out virtual medals for how courageous and successful they have been, slapping each other on the back and drinking virtual schnapps, this is whats wrong with this server right now, the likes of JG4 arent interested in competition, and are actually afraid of any competition, only wanting the easy win to show how great they are.

They should talk about skill only when they have shown some, anyone can fly in a superior aircraft, with superior numbers, and game mechanics geared for them to win, and comfortably win.....

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3 hours ago, JG4_Kruger said:

4.5. Coldstart should be turned back on. It could prevent at least some people from always using the Front-Airfields... and if you aren't able to start up the Aircraft.... Just learn it!
I think it is not much to ask for to set the Throttle between 10-20% on take-off (no Aircraft would start-up at Idle-Cut off!)

 

Here's a minute and a half-long argument why reviving cold start is a bad idea, a lesson easily remembered by any Red ground attacker during the TAW "Cold War Period."    0:00 - 1:35

 

 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, StG77_HvB said:

 

Here's a minute and a half-long argument why reviving cold start is a bad idea, a lesson easily remembered by any Red ground attacker during the TAW "Cold War Period."    0:00 - 1:35

 

 

 

I tested the this especially because of this Video and had no problem with the start-up when setting the Throttle to 20 % :)

 

same Problems appeared for the German-side ;)

Edited by JG4_Kruger
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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, ITAF_LG965 said:

Admins, Thank you for this great Campaign!!!

...and also this time there is the memory for the taw.

https://forgotten-taw.tuttovola.org/

 

Very good idea!!!

 

I have some forgotten wars too but only as images!😉

👇👇👇

 

divsquads.jpg

final_front.jpg

Immagine5.jpg

squads_points.jpg

Edited by 335th_GRSwaty
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13 hours ago, SYN_Repent said:

 

 

Wasn’t you just bragging about knowing what a LAMP server is?? 

 

Not bragging, stating a fact! There is a difference. 

 

I did not post callsigns of the IL-2 community that played TAW but don't know what a LAMP Server is (...without knowing for sure who knows and who doesn't know what a LAMP Server is), that would be idiotic. I stated  "...or maybe" meaning may or may not. Literally 100% of the population that participated in TAW will fall into the category of "maybe". 

 

I know English is a very hard language - it maybe what you call an adverb or a noun. (FYI, that is still not bragging, maybe  a dig :joy:

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8 minutes ago, JG4_Kruger said:

I tested the this especially because of this Video and had no problem with the start-up when setting the Throttle to 20 % :)

Ah ok I didn't understand the 10-20% throttle at takeoff thing in your original post. So alright, 10-20% throttle when starting engines, good to know. Thing is, I figured out pretty quick how to get past any delays imposed by cold starts by starting takeoff at 85% ATA and 85% RPM in the JU 88 and Pe-2. Normally they heat up halfway down the runway and you can then boost to 100% for takeoff.

 

My other objection is when you're flying several back-to-back missions with less than a minute between spawn out/in, your engine wouldn't get cold. So 1st mission cold start would be fine, but not after that. But that's probably not easily coded right now.

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The funning thing about forced TAW campaign balancing (...it sounds too much like socialism to me)!

 

The only way to balance sides is to make TAW CO-OP style. X slots 1/2X RED 1/2X BLUE and only launch when server is full (...thus no AI). That I am OK with.

As long as TAW is dogfight serve based, and without server balancing - it's not going to happen. Some people will always fly one side or another and not both. Not to mention the bigger issue, people will join whenever they want to join.

 

No one will mandate that I have to fly RED to fly TAW.  Which would mean I have to buy additional VVS collector-planes to have access to all the allotment of VVS fighters at my disposal (... that sounds like a dictatorship now). :rtfm:

 

I disagree with any notion of such bigoted mindset. :angry:

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
4 часа назад, JG4_Kruger сказал:

 

Just to at:

4.5. Coldstart should be turned back on. It could prevent at least some people from always using the Front-Airfields... and if you aren't able to start up the Aircraft.... Just learn it!
I think it is not much to ask for to set the Throttle between 10-20% on start-up (no Aircraft would start-up at Idle-Cut off!)

I think the ability to start fast is important to prevent any AF attacks or to avoid being attacked by those who love to kill planes during their spawn/take off time. Front line AF should always be on alert and planes should be ready to take off immediately.

What really pissing me off how easily people exploited another flaw when you can land your plane without landing gears, literally damaging the craft but getting away with no penalty for that. I know the answer from those, the server's rules don't say anything so why not...

Edited by 72AGs_Obi
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23 minutes ago, StG77_HvB said:

Ah ok I didn't understand the 10-20% throttle at takeoff thing in your original post. So alright, 10-20% throttle when starting engines, good to know. Thing is, I figured out pretty quick how to get past any delays imposed by cold starts by starting takeoff at 85% ATA and 85% RPM in the JU 88 and Pe-2. Normally they heat up halfway down the runway and you can then boost to 100% for takeoff.

 

My other objection is when you're flying several back-to-back missions with less than a minute between spawn out/in, your engine wouldn't get cold. So 1st mission cold start would be fine, but not after that. But that's probably not easily coded right now.

 

Just corrected that (sorry my fouled)

This is easy with IL-2: BoX, the Pe-2 is starting up at 10% Throttle (if you check the Tech-Chat while start-up). The position you need to have is the "Choke-Position" when its cold (like on every cold Engine, Idle-Cut off-Position is only used for operation-ready-temperature).

This is also the reason why the Bf 110 G2 turns away while start-up if you not hit the breaks. So every Engine must be set to Choke before Start-up and the Game even tell you what the Choke-Position is for every Aircraft while start-up process- if you don't know it at this moment.

The Problem with warm-start-up is that there are some aircraft with bad Radiators in "slow-situation". That means on Summermaps if you need to taxi the engines are already overheated when you reach the Runway, especially problematic when you have unexperienced People or bigger Groups that need to be coordinated.

 

Greedings Kruger

 

PS.: we are all waiting for the best part of every campaign... your video after it HvB... where is it ?:D

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Just now, JG4_Kruger said:

 

PS.: we are all waiting for the best part of every campaign... your video after it HvB... where is it ?:D

Sorry, man. The patch destroyed half my footage, Kondor lost interest because of the negative issues that continue to be debated ad nauseum in here, and Jeeves and I switched to Red the last 2 maps.

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2 minutes ago, StG77_HvB said:

Sorry, man. The patch destroyed half my footage, Kondor lost interest because of the negative issues that continue to be debated ad nauseum in here, and Jeeves and I switched to Red the last 2 maps.

 

Ok, than... something only with the girls? 😛

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20 minutes ago, JG4_Kruger said:

Ok, than... something only with the girls? 😛

 

rrjbjp.jpg

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1 minute ago, StG77_HvB said:

 

rrjbjp.jpg

 

Nice, I will send this to the Squadron 🤩

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How about just include more P-40s, P-39s, and Spitfires for the red side? Instead of making it very hard to get those and having them completely unavailable often in maps.

 

They are certainly historical. 

 

THAT ought to help the balance issue. 

Not everyone likes to fly Yaks, La5s, or Laggs.

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Riken if you and Ivy teach me to fly VVS, I might change my position for next Campaign. :help:

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Posted (edited)

Been playing around with the TAW data a little bit, interesting results :)  This is map #1 only for now though.

 

Word of warning: self-damage data can be flawed as during ground collisions / etc player can incur damage to his own aircraft caused by himself. So Mc202 taking down MC202 that frequently is an artefact (at least I hope so)

 

 

hC7ffxN.png

 

 

And here is a different view of 1v1 sorties of players (i.e. sorties where some damage was given/taken but only 2 players actively participated in the encounter)

 

BOTH LANDED = either or both of the aircraft took some damage, but neither were "SHOT DOWN" in the log.

KILL = Title aircraft shot down the target

SHOT DOWN = Title aircraft was shot down by the X-axis aircraft

MUTUAL = both aircraft went down

 

This set of data is not super consistent (Pe2 vs 109e-7 should give basically same result) I'll need to look into why this is later. Possibly some sorties aren't counted or the logs themselves aren't consistent.

 

Correction : the data below does not account that the 2nd party may have been involved in more than 1 encounter! Only the 1st party was being checked. I'll post updated charts in a bit

 

<decided to remove this afterall>

 

While the data above is flawed to some extent, the number of pure 1v1 sorties is a lot more limited, thus I will leave up the charts above. Below is correctly filtered 1v1 encounters (that still however do not consider AA/etc damage, only that 2 players and not more were involved)

 

Album with most aircraft:

https://imgur.com/a/Qr8qdVt

 

A few examples:

09QpuWz.pngrYxZDB5.png

keEgTam.png

K1RST7b.png

 

 

Edited by xJammer
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On 3/27/2019 at 6:40 AM, JG4_Kruger said:

Hey Admins, Thank you for this great Campaign!!!

 

Since the last two Campaigns Me and some Squadmembers of JG4 where thinking about changes on the Campaign to prevent Suicidemission, also some of the =LG= Members already heared of them. So here is the result of 4 Month of thinking and discussions within the JG4-Squadron:

 

At first some Points of Understanding:
My understanding is that the Tactical Air War Campaign should have a more "Hardcore-Historical" approach to some degree in comparison other servers in this Game, so with this in mind getting killed or captured shout have a massive impact and to be a real pain for the individual Pilot. I will try to give a Concept to achive this on a "moderate" way that not completely demoralizes people with approaches from other campaigns i flow in, but try to get every one a reason to rethink about every flight before they even take-off.

The Server has the "+1 System" so everyone can fly at least something, this is a good Thing that I will come back later on this. There are Players how fly often an some who can and will not, this must be noted. Also must be noted that some are better Pilots and some are not. There are Bomberpilots and Fighterpilots that face very different Risks on there flights. Also some Pilots doing Operational Tasks within there Squadron and will therefore not be able to constantly shoot down stuff. There are also Pilots who care about the Stats, the XP system and Pilots that do totally not.

All this and possibly a lot more needs to be considered when developing such a change in a given System.

 

The Way you get Aircraft is good in the System that you have and it should not be changed at all, but somehow the gears must be shifted... so which gear will be the right one. I think it should be the Aircrafts you lose not the one you get and I will work with this and the +1 System.

 

The Idea:

1. If a Player gets Killed or Captured, he should lose everything because he is "not there anymore" or "the new guy on the front again". So at first: the People looking at the Stats and XP... all the XP should be completely gone. If you get killed or captured on the last Map with 10000 XP you are at 0!

 

The Pilot already lost all its XP but some of them wont care, so how to be painful to them?

2. The Player was killed or captured, he loses ALL! his aircraft. Sounds hard right?... good. Because he is the new guy, take this old thing and come with us 😄 . A good Pilot is a good Pilot because of his skills, not his Aircraft so he will be soon back up again in his La-5 or Bf 109 G4... what ever he prefers.

When I say ALL I really mean ALL of them so for the maximum next two Hours he is out of the Game by definition... Not even Supply because it can be a Gamechanger to some Point. Time to rethink his actions and what was going wrong, especially what he did wrong.

Bad side-effect: Some People will possibly get more encouraged to Chute-shooting, but they will always do it as long as it is possible!

 

No XP, no Aircrafts... Is he out for the rest of the Campaign?... How should he fly again with no Aircraft left?

3. This is where I come back to the "+1 System": On the Next Mission (after those maximum two hours) he will get his +1 Aircrafts. This means he has after some Time to think at least something to fly with. It is not the best Material but we have Supplymissions for that ;) . But as I sad: it is not the Aircraft, it will always be the Pilot on the Stick. Aaaaaaaaaaaaand he is the new guy at the Unit ;)

 

With all this People need to Fly more "awake" and think about there actions and plans! flying alone is dangerous! flying head over heals is dangerous!

 

4. AAA at the Airfields and Depots should be back at the next Mission is also a good Idea i think

 

 

At the end I have some extras but I did not evaluated there impact, or if its even possible:

5. Squadron-Hangars: If one is constantly loosing Aircrafts it gets a problem for everyone.

 

6. Textinfos of enemy aircrafts are late and that is okey to give them all a chance (even a Po-2 :D), but they should have a Course and Altitude Info (even Altitude alone would be nice), if this is possible somehow

 

Just my thoughts...

Be aware: People with skill will always adapt to the situation they find them self in and not complain about it. (Should also be a good hint for some mostly annoying People in this threat!)

 

 

Thank you again for the GREATEST IL-2: BoX CAMPAIGN!!!

JG4_Kruger

 

PS.: lol, my first Post in this Forum ... sorry for some bad english😄

I'd like to chime in on this one.
From the standpoint of time available on server.  This map was closed on mission map 445.  At 2 hours per map this puts total time of server at 890 hours.  
From the standpoint of Time available for me to play 37 hours.  37 hours of 890 available time spread through 8 maps averages 4 hours and 40 minutes per map set.
What you propose in section 1 would penalize me for not having the ability to play 150 to 200 hours over the campaign.
What you propose in section 2 would penalize me for being bounced by an enemy that, and I now I'm not alone, wasn't in visual range 3 seconds ago.
What you ask in proposal 3 you would be asking for a concept brought about in BLITZ by a server there.  Bring your own supply.  Could work but with only 2 hour maps what happens if overnight your airfield becomes an enemy airfield?
Proposal 4 asks too much for the fliers who run iron hand getting the targets softened up for bomber runs.  I could support a 25% rebuild of AAA at strategic areas but not a complete rebuild.
Proposal 5 could become detrimental to moral of squads leading to in fighting and removal of some "Not great" fliers.  We fly in 10 G6 aircraft and one flier comes and flies them to their doom over the week because they have time to fly while others don't penalizes those "with a life" and not those gamer gamers.

And as for proposal 6 there's a reason tags are off, GPS is off, and radar is off.  Simply put you don't see the pilots of WW2 pulling out a map and going "Hey the enemy planes are over here at this altitude".  Meetings on this server are random as they should be.

 

If TAW was to incorporate all of the proposals you have asked about you would be the only person flying the server because it would alienate those like myself who like the concept of this server as it stands.  I work hard to gain a 109G6.  If I am flying with my wingman in a 110E2 and he fails to see you, because you happen to be in a window spar, when he looked back to clear the 6 while I am navigating the route I should not be punitively wiped out. 

If that were the case there would be 8 Allied fliers who would be angry that they lost their LA5FN to my lowly 110E2 if they lost every aircraft that is a bonus during that campaign.  Another point in case one of my kills came with the 109F4 and the player that I killed did a YAK7B/36 stall that I couldn't get away from where I collided with him.  He laughed about how I lost my F4.  I though to myself so what you died and I bailed out in friendly territory.  I checked his stats the next day and found that after I had killed him instead of flying a "Lesser" aircraft he went and flew 3 transport missions of 15 minutes and regained his YAK7B/36.  I had to fly combat missions to get mine back because I don't know how to transport and I don't have a JU52 in my inventory.  Should he be forced to spend  75 minutes per aircraft to regain the YAK7B/36 because he lost a fight (a good fight), to another player.  He would have had to fly 24 missions (6 hours of 15 minute transports) ( to return him to the YAK7B/36 at the time.  I would have had to fly 12 missions (5 hours of minimum combat missions) to return me to my F4.  Now going back to my 37 complete hours of available flight time, you're asking me to fly more than my average per map (4h40m) to get back my original F4.

The concept they have for aircraft management is good and should NOT be changed in my opinion.  How many people have lost an aircraft to the nasty P2 tail gunners or even "the lowly 110e2 tail gunners".  Do they deserve to be cut out of the game because the AI limits are set to smash??  I've been shot down before I have been within shooting range, for me, of a PE2.  I haven't even reached convergence and I'm going to lose my bird.

Leave the aircraft limits as they are.  TAW knows and has made the penalties for dying sever enough for those, like myself, that take rank seriously. I may have only made it to Lieutenant status twice this campaign but damn I was happy when I did and was mad when I lost it all to a stupid mistake.  One mistake I wouldn't have made if my enemy were more readily seen, instead of appearing and becoming clear, what type of aircraft before they started shooting at me.  You may have the ultimate UBER gaming rig and you can see me from 20Km away but I'm lucky if I see you before you are already attacking me.  Until the day comes when everyone can see everyone then please don't ask anyone to punish anyone for having the lesser of two machines.  It's already hard enough for the casual fliers to work in the Server.  Don't ask to punish those with little time for Rest and Relaxation.

 

I hope you understand what I mean in my rebuttal.

 

>S<

JG51_OGG

CO  JG51 Molders

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Thank you all LG team for this TAW.

 

I have some issues with this edition.

For my one of the worst due the unbalance, map problems and people taking advantage of exploits(cheaters for me).

TAW need more balance on air planes sets and fast AAA on AF and depots most be terrible as hell, that make team work for heavy bombers can reach the target and not only 1-4 fighters can destroy all.

So many like historical, well you can read a lot of pages from many pilots about how terrible was attack an AF or fabric, and not many survive from that, well I saw on this taw 1 fighter take off all AAA from and active AF, if you don´t believe I have a video of that.

Well see you on next one.

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Posted (edited)

Thank you =LG= team for providing another round of TAW.  Always a challenge and rewarding when I can actually do something productive and survive :).

 

A couple suggestions:

 

- Airfield and depot AAA:  IMO if not invulnerable (which I can see may be a bit extreme), I suggest that after each 2 hour round that ALL AAA at airfields and depots be respawned 100%.  There was NO WAY a few fighters could have wiped out all AAA at a major airfield, none would survive - and their superior officers wouldn't have kept sending them on suicide missions to continue the attacks.  I've read enough about how deadly airfield anti-aircraft defenses were.  Was doing some research to try and get some examples - from http://www.ww2.dk/Airfields - France.pdf

 

Abbeville-Drucat:  Defenses: by 1 Oct 43, the airfield was protected by a 6-gun and two 4-gun heavy Flak positions together with 21 light Flak positions, all of these within 3 km of the center of the field.   A system of defense trenches with numerous machine gun positions surrounded the airfield.

 

Bordeaux-Merignac: Defenses:  there were 6 heavy Flak batteries (four with 6 guns and two with 4 guns) within 3.25 km of the airfield, and 21 light Flak positions around the perimeter, of which at least 11 were emplaced in a number of Flak towers. 

 

Come on (more a general statement, not directed at anyone in particular), tell me 1-4 fighters flying low and repeatedly attempting to strafe each and every heavy/light flak/MG positions would be successful in wiping out all AAA at a German airfield (I would imagine something similar at a US/British/Russian airfield). Since we can't put that many AAA at an airfield due to performance, lets at least mimic the difficulty somewhat by maintaining full AAA strength at the START of each mission.

 

- Please disperse the armored columns at their LAST position closest to their target.  While it makes sense to have armor on the roads in line formation (although maybe space them a little farther apart?  To avoid the easy kills from rippling 20-40 100kg bombs across their length) when far from their target, as they get close, they should be spread apart more in staggered line abreast or combat formation.

 

- Until BOTH sides can have paratroopers (or something that emulates their functionality), please limit the number of towns/airfields that paratroopers can capture in a given map (i.e. #1 through #8) - I believe Kathon/someone from =LG= had suggested 2 per map.  On a similar note, IMO if the side with paratroopers outnumbers the opposing side by a great margin (whatever number makes sense, 3-1 ratio or something), the ability to capture/damage an airfield should be suspended during that time.  It's just not fair for one side to be able to control the ability to capture an airfield AND be able to take advantage of the other side not having enough participants to prevent it.
 

Edited by AKA_Relent
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56 minutes ago, AKA_Relent said:

Please disperse the armored columns at their LAST position closest to their target.  While it makes sense to have armor on the roads in line formation (although maybe space them a little farther apart?  To avoid the easy kills from rippling 20-40 100kg bombs across their length) when far from their target, as they get close, they should be spread apart more in staggered line abreast or combat formation.
 

 

Yes! Same thing goes for city defended, I find them way too clustered. I played on a campaign server in the IL-2 1946 game where the ground targets were much more spread out, it made ground attacks harder without needing to add more AA.

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9 hours ago, xJammer said:

Been playing around with the TAW data a little bit, interesting results :)  This is map #1 only for now though.

 

Word of warning: self-damage data can be flawed as during ground collisions / etc player can incur damage to his own aircraft caused by himself. So Mc202 taking down MC202 that frequently is an artefact (at least I hope so)

 

 

hC7ffxN.png

 

 

And here is a different view of 1v1 sorties of players (i.e. sorties where some damage was given/taken but only 2 players actively participated in the encounter)

 

BOTH LANDED = either or both of the aircraft took some damage, but neither were "SHOT DOWN" in the log.

KILL = Title aircraft shot down the target

SHOT DOWN = Title aircraft was shot down by the X-axis aircraft

MUTUAL = both aircraft went down

 

This set of data is not super consistent (Pe2 vs 109e-7 should give basically same result) I'll need to look into why this is later. Possibly some sorties aren't counted or the logs themselves aren't consistent.

 

Correction : the data below does not account that the 2nd party may have been involved in more than 1 encounter! Only the 1st party was being checked. I'll post updated charts in a bit

 

CnGUvmN.png

 

While the data above is flawed to some extent, the number of pure 1v1 sorties is a lot more limited, thus I will leave up the charts above. Below is correctly filtered 1v1 encounters (that still however do not consider AA/etc damage, only that 2 players and not more were involved)

 

Album with most aircraft:

https://imgur.com/a/Qr8qdVt

 

A few examples:

09QpuWz.pngrYxZDB5.png

keEgTam.png

K1RST7b.png

 

 

 

Like I tell my people at work - This is great but what is the data telling us? 

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19 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

 

Like I tell my people at work - This is great but what is the data telling us? 

 

This is what I’m reading from this data:

 

- The Pe2 gets shot down by the 109 at about the same rate than the He-111 is by the similarly armed (two cannons, two light mgs) I-16. Combine this info with the lack of success the Pe2 has against the Mc202 and I don’t see any support for the “the Pe-2 gunner is too deadly” theory here.

 

- The He-111 is helpless against the P-40. Is it because the P-40 is faster than the I-16 and can get safer shooting angles. Does it hit that much harder? 

 

- The P-40 is an even match to the E7 and deadly against bombers and attackers. So at least on that first map it’s definitely not the dog that many say it is.

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The P-40e should be at least the equal of the 109e7, equal to the 109f2, and dangerous but inferior to the f4-g6 series. It seems that the data bears that out. However I would also say that pilot quality is higher on the P-40 side than the Emil pilots, certainly are braver and better technically, I might be biased though. :)

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2 hours ago, AKA_Relent said:

Abbeville-Drucat:  Defenses: by 1 Oct 43, the airfield was protected by a 6-gun and two 4-gun heavy Flak positions together with 21 light Flak positions, all of these within 3 km of the center of the field.   A system of defense trenches with numerous machine gun positions surrounded the airfield.

 

Bordeaux-Merignac: Defenses:  there were 6 heavy Flak batteries (four with 6 guns and two with 4 guns) within 3.25 km of the airfield, and 21 light Flak positions around the perimeter, of which at least 11 were emplaced in a number of Flak towers. 

 

I think this might be an important detail.

 

The main reason why airfield/depot aa (and aa in general) is as bad as it is, is because of how it works in general. It is easily exploitable when they are all at one place, fixating on one target. Without having done any testing myself, it could be a lot more difficult to attack when aa position are more spread out but still in range to support each other when under attack. 

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, WokeUpDead said:

 

This is what I’m reading from this data:

 

- The Pe2 gets shot down by the 109 at about the same rate than the He-111 is by the similarly armed (two cannons, two light mgs) I-16. Combine this info with the lack of success the Pe2 has against the Mc202 and I don’t see any support for the “the Pe-2 gunner is too deadly” theory here.

 

Don't take too much insight from HE111 data - look at how few sorties are recorded for 1v1 encounters against HE111.

 

And in terms of kills / hour, 109-e7 gets killed by Pe2 around 4 times per day of Pe2 flight, while I16 only gets killed once per day of He111 flight. In hindsight I should have made the Y axis limits consistent between those charts. sight.

 

 

58 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

 

Like I tell my people at work - This is great but what is the data telling us? 

 

Thankfully I don't work for you 😄 

Edited by xJammer
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Posted (edited)

2 Admins:

 

is it possible to track in the log that the navi lights were switched on/off (or the aerobatics traces) ?

 

In old Il2 it was possible (traces) and was used for the recon missions.

 

In this case we can use Po2 in the same way as Ju52.

Edited by Norz

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Posted (edited)

Lets look at the AAA Statistics now. This is over entire TAW campaign, considering player sorties that were only damaged by the specific AAA and did not take any other damage (besides damage that has no cause, such as engine out or self-damage):

 

TRUE == aircraft was shot down

 

Red AAA Blue AAA
52-K Flak 36
61-K Flak 37
72-K Flak 38
GAZ-AA M4 MG-34 AA
M4 Sd Kfz 10 Flak 38
ZiS-5 72-K  

 

cfVdSCm.png

 

I'll slowly update this post with more relevant AAA stats, such as the most survivable aircraft / etc. (Depending on what is possible given the logs)

Edited by xJammer

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