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Tactical Air War

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Posted (edited)

Honestly guys I think I am done flying this campaign. I watched closely the progress of the war on map #6. It started very well for both parties, the front line moved well, the fights were balanced for first few hours until xJammer got it and started his usual AF attacks. 1 day and we lost 2 main front line fields, soon we are going to lose the 3rd and the last one closed to the front line. And that's it, the map is over. I am really surprised that the devs are just watching despite the fact that xJammer was noted starting doing this shit few maps ago and continue doing it. All what devs can propose is to try to address it in the next campaign. But this campaign still has 2 more maps. If nothing is going to change then it doesn't make any sense to continue playing this campaign.

Sorry but it becomes so annoying that it's better to stop flying then watch this nonsense.

One quick temporary solution... Add logic to the script, if xJammer attacks any of the objects on any AFs, ban him for the rest of the map immediately. And add permanent and well tested solution for the next campaign. 

Edited by 72AGs_Obi
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39 minutes ago, 72AGs_Obi said:

Honestly guys I think I am done flying this campaign. I watched closely the progress of the war on map #6. It started very well for both parties, the front line moved well, the fights were balanced for first few hours until xJammer got it and started his usual AF attacks. 1 day and we lost 2 main front line fields, soon we are going to lose the 3rd and the last one closed to the front line. And that's it, the map is over. I am really surprised that the devs are just watching despite the fact that xJammer was noted starting doing this shit few maps ago and continue doing it. All what devs can propose is to try to address it in the next campaign. But this campaign still has 2 more maps. If nothing is going to change then it doesn't make any sense to continue playing this campaign.

Sorry but it becomes so annoying that it's better to stop flying then watch this nonsense.

One quick temporary solution... Add logic to the script, if xJammer attacks any of the objects on any AFs, ban him for the rest of the map immediately. And add permanent and well tested solution for the next campaign. 

 I commend you for lasting this long.  I quit map 2 based on balance and the fact that I havent flown Blue in over a year.  I probably won’t come back until significant improvements are made, since I find my time (2 hrs per night) too valuable not to have ANY fun.  This server has successfully turned me off from even booting IL2 for awhile.

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2 hours ago, =BES=Savage-6 said:

 I commend you for lasting this long.  I quit map 2 based on balance and the fact that I havent flown Blue in over a year.  I probably won’t come back until significant improvements are made, since I find my time (2 hrs per night) too valuable not to have ANY fun.  This server has successfully turned me off from even booting IL2 for awhile.

 

Ditto.

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Posted (edited)

I went back and reviewed posts about in balance in TAW and it seems it's been happening for almost as long as TAW started. Actually - that was only 1 TAW campaign were RED outnumbered BLUE - and that was the last campaign.

 

I have said this over and over again - blame 1C & 777 and not TAW admin

 

It is easy to say RED side is always the underdog because no one like to fly RED. My answer is - who's fault is that? It's not TAWs admins. Also, it's definitely not the players for making a choice on what side they fly for..

 

The reason less people like to fly RED (VVS aircraft) is just personal preference. The beauty of being in Finance and Statistics is you see number patterns, then you start to understand what the patterns are telling you. The pattern I see is that more people would rather fly for the BLUE side than RED side. Let's put this in not so politically correct terms: More people are interested in virtually flying German built WWII aircraft (...not going to count the 1 Italian plane) than virtually flying Russian built WWII aircraft. For what reason - who knows really...

 

This is not a knock on Russian aircraft - it's just personal preference of the broader scope i.e. the general public that flies TAW.

 

The reason I blame 1C and 777 studios is because they came up with the idea of making this game Russia vs Germany/Italy. Imagine what would have happen if they had went with Pacific Theater WWII?  I think it would be hard pressed to have enough people flying for the Japanese side for a campaign at all (then again, I might be wrong - I would not have bought the game anyway). However, what I know for sure is TAW admin are trying their best to make it more exciting for us to play (...I like the faster supply of aircraft idea personally ;) ). Since the idea of server balancing on the back end is out, we are going to have to contend with the lopsided numbers.

 

It is my opinion that a mixture of RAF, USAAF/USN and VVS (RED) verses Luftwaffe,  IJN/IJA and Italian Air Force (BLUE) would have given everyone more choices and better overall campaign enjoyment. Just my two cents.

Edited by JG7_X-Man

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59 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

 For what reason - who knows really...

 

 

lol

 

Actually, everyone knows why.  The German fighters are better.  That's why.

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29 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

… I have said this over and over again - blame 1C & 777 and not TAW admin …

 

Not sure why you would blame 1C/777, yes maybe the aircraft matchups for each Battle Of title aren't the most balanced, but then again, that's not their fault either - they chose certain aircraft types to model to represent those periods of the war (can't appease everyone).  Early war, the German aircraft (specifically fighter aircraft) outperformed the Russian aircraft.  IMO that's probably why not many want to fly on the Russian side in TAW, especially the first few maps.  Not until the 5th or 6th map through the end of the campaign, when the Russian aircraft performance starts to close the gap on the respective German aircraft do we expect to see higher numbers on the Russian side.

 

The problem is, throughout the war, the number of German fighters/aircraft on the eastern front was dwarfed by the number of Russian fighters/aircraft, especially starting in '42/43, where there was a larger and larger disparity in numbers until the end of the war.  Unfortunately, in TAW, it seems to be the opposite of history, where instead of having Russian aircraft outnumbering German aircraft by a wide margin, it's often the opposite or close to parity.  You take a side with underperforming aircraft, and instead of having them in good numbers vs less numbers of better performing German aircraft (mainly fighters), it's the opposite - it's easy to see why the Russian side isn't as popular.   If the Russian side had a larger ratio of players throughout the campaign, it would make the Russian side more attractive to available players, since, even in map #1 with I-16s vs Bf109E-7's, you would have a chance just due to sheer numbers alone.

 

LG is going a great job setting up these campaigns, and the pilot limiter has certainly helped.  However, IMO it should  be taken to the next level - if we are trying to represent more historical numerical ratios between the German and Russian aircraft, the German side should be limited to around 30 pilots (against the max of ~82) per mission, for the entire campaign.  With that sort of cap, we may see more interest in flying Russian simply due to increased survivability.

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Posted (edited)

Even outnumbered, the Reds can still compete with LW pretty well. There are different tactical options each side can implement to push the victory to its side.

All of it makes sense and becomes very interesting if the battle progresses as in normal war campaign with some deviation. Some maps have more advantage for red and visa versa.  

The problem occurs when people find some flaws which mess up the whole balance/process. Then everything falls apart and turns into some primitive arcade game.

Of course pilots can still fly but those who want to make a difference in the outcome will be disappointed as there is nothing they can do now to change the fate of this campaign. 

Edited by 72AGs_Obi

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8 часов назад, SCG_Riksen сказал:

Забавно ... Я не помню, ты жалуешься, когда мы должны были i16s против E7s .... или F4s против MiG3s как предыдущий TAW сделал.

Modestly concealing that together with i16 they give P40, and when F4 appears, it is 1, while VVS has 2 Mig3, 1 Yak and 1 Lagg. I did not see your complaints when VVS flies Pe2 on the first maps and hunt on 109.

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Posted (edited)

Did anybody here noticed, that every single sortie of xJammer which ended with LANDED status, xJammer damaged his plane during landing, and what is super-weird, it is all the time exactly the same damage. For example, if he flies Bf-109F4, he has all the time 6.01%, than 47.64% and finally 0.07% damage, every sortie the same damage during landing. If he flies FW-190A3, the damage is different, but again, same all the time for that airplane. Have someone here any explanation for that?

Edited by CSW_Hot_Dog

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, CSW_Hot_Dog said:

Did anybody here noticed, that every single sortie of xJammer which ended with LANDED status, xJammer damaged his plane during landing, and what is super-weird, it is all the time exactly the same damage. For example, if he flies Bf-109F4, he has all the time 6.01%, than 47.64% and finally 0.07% damage, every sortie the same damage during landing. If he flies FW-190A3, the damage is different, but again, same all the time for that airplane. Have someone here any explanation for that?

He doesn't use landing gear. It's faster to land without landing gear and there's no penalty for doing it.

 

I had to retire out of this campaign on Map 3# as there was simply no hope. 

Edited by AirshowDisaster

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Posted (edited)

Why not start ban votes on the server when xjammer is on? If the admin won’t ban him, then I’d like to think enough guys on the server know about his antics and would like him gone, that includes blue, the side he flies for, he’s doing no one any favours.

Edited by SYN_Repent
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6 minutes ago, SYN_Repent said:

Why not start ban votes on the server when xjammer is on? If the admin won’t ban him, then I’d like to think enough guys on the server know about his antics and would like him gone, that includes blue, the side he flies for, he’s doing no one any favours.

Good idea, good idea Repent, im for that. little confused, if this is legitim, but hey, he doesnt use landing gear on purpose as described two post before and as I think, it is against the "spirit of TAW".

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4 hours ago, JGr8_Leopard said:

Modestly concealing that together with i16 they give P40, and when F4 appears, it is 1, while VVS has 2 Mig3, 1 Yak and 1 Lagg. I did not see your complaints when VVS flies Pe2 on the first maps and hunt on 109.

 

What a great LW pilot you are ... all of those planes are still inferior to the 109. Cmon man you should know this by now, all you fly is 109. You should be ashamed of yourself for even attempting to compare.

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27 minutes ago, SCG_Riksen said:

 

What a great LW pilot you are ... all of those planes are still inferior to the 109. Cmon man you should know this by now, all you fly is 109. You should be ashamed of yourself for even attempting to compare.

 

These guys like us to believe it’s their skills that make them superior.

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5 hours ago, CSW_Hot_Dog said:

Did anybody here noticed, that every single sortie of xJammer which ended with LANDED status, xJammer damaged his plane during landing, and what is super-weird, it is all the time exactly the same damage. For example, if he flies Bf-109F4, he has all the time 6.01%, than 47.64% and finally 0.07% damage, every sortie the same damage during landing. If he flies FW-190A3, the damage is different, but again, same all the time for that airplane. Have someone here any explanation for that?

He just use belly landing every time. It is possible now with the new rules.

 

4 hours ago, SYN_Repent said:

Why not start ban votes on the server when xjammer is on? If the admin won’t ban him, then I’d like to think enough guys on the server know about his antics and would like him gone, that includes blue, the side he flies for, he’s doing no one any favours.

When I was playing the red side last TAW I thought jammer Smith like a cheater. Because of 110 flying circus. But now we usually fly in TS and I see, that he is a good guy who just want to win and use every possibility to do this. Also he wanted us to switch the side during compaign to show reds how they should win but we rejected this offer.

He is a good organizator who don’t see language barriers and also try to coordinate with non English speaking players. That was usual trouble while we were playing red side last TAW. No one wants to sit at the TAW ts((( but now we can simply organize more then 10 pilots flight to any target and it’s really simple to do everything without losses.

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The question istn how good guy is he and what a good commander can be...

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LW only having paratroops feels pretty unbalanced too. Pe2 with para functionality, even if its not visual would be nice. Does the u2 have a mechanic now also??

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2 minutes ago, [GCA]T1m270 said:

LW only having paratroops feels pretty unbalanced too. Pe2 with para functionality, even if its not visual would be nice. Does the u2 have a mechanic now also??

 

Are you kidding about a Pe2 for that option?

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Posted (edited)

Looked at statistics and im shocked that Jammer is 3rd in scored experince...That shows death penality is to little and favors suicidal attacks no matter if you survive or not if you hit targets...

Edited by =LG=Coldman
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I know i am repeating myself but as long as there is no way to effectively predict a large scale attack there won't be anything anyone can do to stop the meta we currently "enjoy"

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My suggestion.

1. Undamaged aaa on AF and Depot.

2. Less aggressive aaa on other targets.

3. No entrance for side who already had 48 registered pilots on server.

4. No entrance if user not in Ts.

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2 часа назад, SCG_Riksen сказал:

What a great LW pilot you are ... all of those planes are still inferior to the 109. Cmon man you should know this by now, all you fly is 109. You should be ashamed of yourself for even attempting to compare.

In capable hands and proper use, these aircraft are not inferior. In addition, you again "forgot" that the Yak69 and Lagg are planes 42. If these planes are useless, can they be removed altogether? Maybe La5fn would look better instead? She will not be ashamed to chase 109, I hope?
Why should I be ashamed to offer something when the red side offers to ban one pilot, because it prevents them from winning?

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, JGr8_Leopard said:

In capable hands and proper use, these aircraft are not inferior. In addition, you again "forgot" that the Yak69 and Lagg are planes 42. If these planes are useless, can they be removed altogether? Maybe La5fn would look better instead? She will not be ashamed to chase 109, I hope?
Why should I be ashamed to offer something when the red side offers to ban one pilot, because it prevents them from winning?

 

Let's try this: U fly VVS for an entire campaign and switch places with me. I'll fly LW when u are on and you VVS and u get to fly the mighty VVS planes and see for yourself how much better they are. Deal?

 

EDIT: I see that all u can do is laugh about it. If you suck with the 109, Im afraid to tell u that u will do much worse in the VVS. Perhaps you should consider sticking to flying Ju52s only?

Edited by SCG_Riksen
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Posted (edited)

 Instead of answering the question, why VVS first to receive fighter, LW received the first attack aircraft.  You propose to swap parties. Great move. Can give trophy Bf109 VVS?

Edited by JGr8_Leopard
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Could a script be made that counts any aircraft that RTB's after a sortie with say 10-15% or more damage as out of service for the rest of the next two missions, but not as a lost plane?  Personally I think the plus one aircraft should be eliminated with the exception of transports and CM requirement increased to 4.  AA at airfields and depots should be destroyable IMO, but re-spawn after a few minutes just so if a bomb hits one the pilot gets credit.

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52 minutes ago, Garven said:

Could a script be made that counts any aircraft that RTB's after a sortie with say 10-15% or more damage as out of service for the rest of the next two missions, but not as a lost plane?  

 

In my experience, the percentage damage is not a useful indicator of whether an aircraft could be patched up and relaunched or needs major repairs or need writing off.  Ten percent damage can mean anything from 'I have lots of tiny holes in my wings that make no difference to my aircrafts performance'  to 'I took one unlucky bullet to the oil line for 2% damage and my engine seized solid into a useless pile of junk on finals.'

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

 

In my experience, the percentage damage is not a useful indicator of whether an aircraft could be patched up and relaunched or needs major repairs or need writing off.  Ten percent damage can mean anything from 'I have lots of tiny holes in my wings that make no difference to my aircrafts performance'  to 'I took one unlucky bullet to the oil line for 2% damage and my engine seized solid into a useless pile of junk on finals.'

In that case raise it to 25-30%.  Just at least make it impossible to belly land every time with no consequences.  Every time xjammer belly lands he gets around 47% damage.  

 

See ya'll next TAW.

Edited by Garven

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Posted (edited)

@JG7_X-Man Back when I played IL-2 1946, the German side was still the most popular even in Western Front scenarios, with all the goodies like P-51s etc for the allied side. There was still team unbalance and admins had to ask people to switch teams quite often.



 

Edited by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

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18 hours ago, 72AGs_Obi said:

Add logic to the script, if xJammer attacks any of the objects on any AFs, ban him for the rest of the map immediately. And add permanent and well tested solution for the next campaign. 

 

Please publish the whole list what is not allowed to do. Because now it is a solo attack on an enemy AF, after that you will ask something else. One question. Why do you not attack solo the enemy AF? Just do it, like he does.

 

The only problem that we have is the outnumbered blue team. Solve the issue and no one will risk to attack the enemy FA at all (solo).

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Let's keep adding rules so xjammer doesn't keep gaming the server. Fun times.

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Posted (edited)
3 часа назад, Operatsiya_Ivy сказал:

I know i am repeating myself but as long as there is no way to effectively predict a large scale attack there won't be anything anyone can do to stop the meta we currently "enjoy"

I know there are some few settlements on the routes that include some trucks, AAAs and 2 tanks that can be considered as a radar. Is it possible once the planes fly over it to highlight them and show how many planes above passing by and their course?

They stay invisible and hidden before they are spotted so they can be used as an intel mechanism/notification of incoming attack.

42 минуты назад, Norz сказал:

 

Please publish the whole list what is not allowed to do. Because now it is a solo attack on an enemy AF, after that you will ask something else. One question. Why do you not attack solo the enemy AF? Just do it, like he does.

 

The only problem that we have is the outnumbered blue team. Solve the issue and no one will risk to attack the enemy FA at all (solo).

It's been spoken out that AFs and Depots are the strategic targets that should be real hard to attack and survive after the attack no matter if it's a solo or group attack. Devs tried to protect them but it didn't work out well enough to support their words so people like xJammer started exploiting it right away.

Reds don't do it probably because they try to play as in the simulation game, no arcade one in order to feel the spirit of the war in the air. Our squad doesn't do it because we count each pilot live and each pilot kill means we made a mistake and we need to avoid it as much as possible. That's how it's supposed to be in a real life and that's why we follow this way in the game which I believe is the proper way. Same with the belly landing... xJammer looks at the game from a completely different perspective. TAW server is made to reflect the real air war as close as possible, and many pilots fly on it for the very same purpose because they share the devs' vision.

Good thing he finds the flaws, bad thing he uses the flaws to get an advantage and continues using them as devs can't react immediately to force him to stop it.

Edited by 72AGs_Obi
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23 minutes ago, 72AGs_Obi said:

Reds don't do it probably because they try to play as in the simulation game, no arcade one in order to feel the spirit of the war in the air. Our squad doesn't do it because we count each pilot live and each pilot kill means we made a mistake and we need to avoid it as much as possible.

 

We do it (on the red side). Do you want to limit us also? Ok, no problem. Finally it will be the same as at WOL, no bombs for the fighters, nothing.

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I think when it boils down to it TAW is glorified roleplay for a lot of the people who participate in it - but for some it's just a competition. The two different attitudes are destined to butt heads no matter what.

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Posted (edited)
15 минут назад, Norz сказал:

 

We do it (on the red side). Do you want to limit us also? Ok, no problem. Finally it will be the same as at WOL, no bombs for the fighters, nothing.

I have already posted my observation on xJammer's 4 consequent sorties when he was able to vanish all AAAs on one AF. I saw him flying alone after and above the AF kept shooting at different objects on the AF making a huge damage by himself in 109 as well as trying to kill all newly spawn planes on the AF. If you think it's normal then fine. I don't think other people will agree with you as well as the TAW devs. I consider it as a flaw and whoever uses it just hacking the balance mechanism to get an advantage. I wouldn't mind to switch to another server where it would not be possible, but there is none. Plus devs agree that's not right, they can't just fix it quick.

Norz... I hope you do understand that TAW is not a commercial product, the devs are enthusiast who have limited resources and can't polish the server and make it perfect. That's why we have some gentlemen rules what is allowed or not. Devs try to run the server so that people can enjoy the campaign. They do it for people and expect us to support them. Instead people like xJammer uses this approach for his own benefits and some sick selfish mentality probably just to fulfill his ego to be the best and the one person who made the most contribution in winning this campaign.

Edited by 72AGs_Obi
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47 minutes ago, 72AGs_Obi said:

 

Norz...  I hope you do understand that TAW is not a commercial product, the devs are enthusiast who have limited resources and can't polish the server and make it perfect. That's why we have some gentlemen rules what is allowed or not. 

 

I played about 6..7 TAWs and heard about "gentlement rules " first time 2 weeks ago. As i said ...publish the rules and we will follow them.

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37 minutes ago, AirshowDisaster said:

I think when it boils down to it TAW is glorified roleplay for a lot of the people who participate in it - but for some it's just a competition. The two different attitudes are destined to butt heads no matter what.

 

No it is about playing a simulation in a semi competitive environment. Nothing more nothing less.

 

The only attitude that is causing issues here is that certain people treat TAW as some sort of e-sport game, which certainly it is not. 

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30 minutes ago, Operatsiya_Ivy said:

No it is about playing a simulation in a semi competitive environment. Nothing more nothing less.

The only attitude that is causing issues here is that certain people treat TAW as some sort of e-sport game, which certainly it is not. 

 

I see no problems here. If it is not important for you to win, what is the problem? You can simulate your high attitude flying over the depots (or low or whatever).

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31 minutes ago, Norz said:

 

I played about 6..7 TAWs and heard about "gentlement rules " first time 2 weeks ago. As i said ...publish the rules and we will follow them.

 

Norz, are you saying you need a list of hundreds of rules? Or can you use your own brain a little? If Kathon was to create a list of rules for xjammer not to do, he would be writing them forever, you don’t need rules to know that something’s wrong, or your not playing the server in the spirit it should be, if you seriously think you do need things spelling out to you in black and white then maybe this servers not for you.

 

Rule 1) don’t exploit the game or server

Rule 2) don’t exploit the game or server 

Rule 3) don’t exploit the game or server 

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1 minute ago, SYN_Repent said:

 

Norz, are you saying you need a list of hundreds of rules? Or can you use your own brain a little? If Kathon was to create a list of rules for xjammer not to do, he would be writing them forever, you don’t need rules to know that something’s wrong, or your not playing the server in the spirit it should be, if you seriously think you do need things spelling out to you in black and white then maybe this servers not for you.

 

Rule 1) don’t exploit the game or server

Rule 2) don’t exploit the game or server 

Rule 3) don’t exploit the game or server 

 

Just to clarify... Distance 500m..can i shoot or not...What about 600m? Yes or not. Seems that some players will describe it like an exploit. I will do it, for sure. But if i can do the same, it is totally OK for me.

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