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Tactical Air War

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Just now, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Unacceptable.

 

You apologize for exploiting game mechanics??? What's next, another exploit or even cheat and then apologize again???  Any ground crews would have captured you, don't try this cheap excuse.

 

 

I saw some ground crew manning machineguns and firing back at me when I was strafing the AAA  - I have shot those individuals too and destroyed their MG guns. When I saw that there no longer was any sign of life on the airfield I have strafed both of you on the spawn and proceeded to land engines hot, ready to take off in case any ground crew would peek out and try to take pot shots at me. I also was sufficiently far from any buildings that any crew hiding would have to run a good mile before they could reach me in the place where I landed.

 

I would honestly call the red secret technology that allows aircraft to materialise out of thin air a cheat and exploit - I would have strafed any aircraft and hangars had I been able to.

 

Anyway, this discussion is fairly pointless. As far as I am aware there is nothing on TAW banning this, if admins decide against permitting players to land on undefended runways it is up to them to adjust the rules (and I would adhere to those without question). In the meantime the best course of action is not to spawn on airfields that are under attack. Because whether it is landed aircraft or those in the air, you are taking a risk that you will be killed before you would even be able to load in.

Edited by xJammer
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If you spawned at Maikop, you'd get sniped in the head before your screen even loaded into the aircraft, your pilot killed, any streak lost.

 

I don't believe for a second anyone would consider this descipable action even remotely appropiate play on TAW. Especially not LG.

 

 

Want to know how a sortie meeting him looked like?

 

This is how it looked like: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1yDPv-Y-cxijLmRjzNuFIAWhRE5Fjo4eC

 

Dead before you'd even see the cockpit.

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

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😂 so you want us to believe its their fault for spawning in and getting pilot sniped... And totally reasonable of you to do it for said reasons. 

 

...that's pretty childish. Its people like you who ruin games for others.

Edited by SCG_Hobo
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The fact that you even try to defend this boggles my mind. This is not about rules, this is about committing [edited] or not. There might not have been a law in the olden times to not shit into the village well, but people were smart enough not to do it anyway.

Edited by SYN_Haashashin
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What am I reading... 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️

 

Talk about ppl not taking the server seriously.

There has to be something really wrong with server/mission design if someone is able to just take out the AAA of an airfield (even if it's multiple suicide runs) and then do that sort of stuff. Why try to play safe and care about doing good sorties getting back etc if one can just suicide kill all the AAA and close airfields, park planes and gun the spawning guys etc.

It just takes away everything this server tries to be.

 

Edited by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard
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Ok, after this one I'm out ... thanks LG and everyone else for TAW and all the work you do but it is people like xJammer that destroys this community. Some things are just common sense man, and it is obvious that he lacks any ... I mean, cmon, what kinda person would join TAW and start crash landing aircrafts instead of properly landing them because it took him 15 extra seconds to deploy the landing gears? What kind of person would land in an enemy AF and sit there to shoot people spawning? The dude is just an old troll and does not deserve a place in TAW.

Edited by SCG_Riksen
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49 minutes ago, xJammer said:

 

 

I saw some ground crew manning machineguns and firing back at me when I was strafing the AAA  - I have shot those individuals too and destroyed their MG guns. When I saw that there no longer was any sign of life on the airfield I have strafed both of you on the spawn and proceeded to land engines hot, ready to take off in case any ground crew would peek out and try to take pot shots at me. I also was sufficiently far from any buildings that any crew hiding would have to run a good mile before they could reach me in the place where I landed.

 

I would honestly call the red secret technology that allows aircraft to materialise out of thin air a cheat and exploit - I would have strafed any aircraft and hangars had I been able to.

 

Anyway, this discussion is fairly pointless. As far as I am aware there is nothing on TAW banning this, if admins decide against permitting players to land on undefended runways it is up to them to adjust the rules (and I would adhere to those without question). In the meantime the best course of action is not to spawn on airfields that are under attack. Because whether it is landed aircraft or those in the air, you are taking a risk that you will be killed before you would even be able to load in.

 

It makes me laugh that you try to defend this, It is an unacceptable and a dickish behavior that should result in a ban. No matter which way you try to twist this.

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56 minutes ago, xJammer said:

@SCG_Fenris_Wolf

 

I apologise I got bored strafing you guys originally, so I decided to land and lose any chance to defend myself if one of you decided to come from elsewhere rather than spawn.

 

There is no exploit as I have taken out all of the AAA at the airfield so it was completely undefended. Had there been any AAA it would have shot me until I died. The sortie just before actually was me cleaning up the airfield AAA.

 

You are revolting.

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@xJammer We had a discussion about this a month ago, its a game, but if you treat it like the way you do, you will always get this response...youve shown me a trend here and on coco expert and it seems you like to either troll or ruin peoples fun......only way to halt this is agressive server mods imo, throw him out. Server admins be the leaders the community desperatly needs !

~jarhead

Edited by Banzaii

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Parachute killing also was a heated debate with calls for bans. KOTAR server disallowed it while it is still permitted on TAW. I have nothing against (and agree) to ban landing aircraft on undefended enemy airfields. While in my mind it makes little difference between getting strafed or getting shot by a gunner, I can see how some people can be sensitive about it.

 

 

@SCG_Riksen  I have reported the issue (belly landing) previously and proposed ways to mitigate it. Practically speaking TAW is a competitive server, so any valid advantage should be used to the best extent. In my case I have seen plenty of reds belly-landing their aircraft on airfields to despawn quickly, especially if they are damaged.

Edited by xJammer

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Just now, xJammer said:

Parachute killing also was a heated debate with calls for bans. KOTAR server disallowed it while it is still permitted on TAW. I have nothing against (and agree) to ban landing aircraft on enemy airfields. While in my mind it makes little difference between getting strafed or getting shot by a gunner, I can see how some people can be sensitive about it.

 

 

"I can see how some people might be big babies about this totally fine thing I did, so I magnanimously agree to have it disallowed in future for the sake of their ~sensitivity~.  P.S. don't ban me".

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@ xJammer you really should reevaluate your behavior around what makes enjoyable game play.  Do we really have to treat you like a baby and handhold you into playing like a reasonable adult? And make rules and regulations for every instance of stupid behavior and cater to only your enjoyment of the game?

 

 

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I hate to say it, but good sportsmanship isn't a rule requirement.  It's (for the most part) a mutually hoped expectation.  People take damaged or +1 aircraft and ram others down - especially if the rammed aircraft is not a +1 plane.  (On this map think - 109F4 vs. Pe-2 and A-20.)

People chute kill, and people, apparently, do this. 

 

Here's a suggestion - provided it can be coded.  Any plane that remains less than 3 meters over an enemy airfield for longer than 15 seconds causes the AAA to respawn to full health and removes all damage from the field.  Said airfield is also unable to be attacked/taken for 3 turns.   

 

The only drawback I see is that the ability to fly both sides would have to be removed at registration time. 

 

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11 minutes ago, =AVG77=Garven said:

I vote Ban.

+1

 I might have a different view of it, but I support my squad mates.   It is, after all, bros before ho's. 

 

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5 hours ago, SCG_Riksen said:

Ok, after this one I'm out ... thanks LG and everyone else for TAW and all the work you do but it is people like xJammer that destroys this community. Some things are just common sense man, and it is obvious that he lacks any ... I mean, cmon, what kinda person would join TAW and start crash landing aircrafts instead of properly landing them because it took him 15 extra seconds to deploy the landing gears? What kind of person would land in an enemy AF and sit there to shoot people spawning? The dude is just an old troll and does not deserve a place in TAW.

 

I'm running the biggest squad on this TAW (Red Flight & Friends) with over 50 guys, and when they heard about this they were all pretty much in agreement with Riksen. This kind of behaviour from xJammer is absolutely unacceptable and makes us question if pilot kills are really such a big deal on TAW after all. So far neither side has come close to losing on pilots... When you have a suicide bomber on your team it should be an drawback not a bonus.

 

We are now questioning if we are going to continue sorties on TAW.

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This server has been heading this way for a while, not really through the fault of dev's or admin, something like this was bound to happen.

 

Ban xjammer, in my eyes he is a cheater, if he will do this, what else will he do? he isnt interested in making this server a fun, competitive arena.

 

Im out of this campaign too.

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My God why does he even try to defend himself? Yeah man totally justifiable to exploit the game and spawn kill people... Really makes it fair and fun for everyone else. If this does not result in a ban then I'm really shocked! 

Edited by SCG_Cryptiks
Forgot a word
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1 hour ago, Talon_ said:

So far neither side has come close to losing on pilots... When you have a suicide bomber on your team it should be an drawback not a bonus.

 

You have many suicide players. You might even consider your early Depot attacks suicidial. VVS has a huge advantage when it comes to pilot attrition. Making it having a bigger impact on winning conditions will be difficult. Maybe you should simply get banned for 12 hours or so when you get killed or captured.

 

Also, while I am not defending his actions at all, threatening to not play on TAW because of it is laughable. Stop trying to pressure the admins with it. 

Edited by Operation_Ivy
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11 minutes ago, Operation_Ivy said:

Also, while I am not defending his actions at all, threatening to not play on TAW because of it is laughable. Stop trying to pressure the admins with it. 

 

Just repeating how my squad feels about it.

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No excuses for such behaviour, and then even trying to justify it!

If xJammer cannot see that what he is doing is not right, I am for him banned from TAW.

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If you're going to ban people for gaming the game mechanics, then maybe you should also ban red pilots doing one way trip raids on the depots, arriving 1 min before the mission ends so that they don't have to fly back and get saved miraculously in the air just as interceptors are about to catch them...

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I was killed by a Pe2 just spawned in this campagne. When bailed out three reds tried to kill me on chute. Sportsmanship isn‘t a thing for everybody, not here not in real live. I think „He“ will not repeat this reading the comments... ceep cool all and show TAW that‘s worth to stay here!

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Ivy, I don't think their trying to threaten the devs. They have lost interest and immersion or whatever the hell you want to call someone's version of fun. People generally dont play games they dont find enjoyable. This for them (I'm sick of this crap but I won't say I'll leave) is the icing on the cake. They obviously care alot about the game, but people can only take so much before they leave.

 

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39 minutes ago, OpticFlow said:

gaming the game mechanics

 

Well, gaming the game mechanics? If I shoot down a friendly on the runway with my gunner is also gaming the game mechanics, right?

Technically possible, but much senseless besides, of course, being a team killer.

 

The behavior of this individual is really abominable - it's like those campers in FPS games waiting before a spawn point and having "their"

fun. What a challenge for them to gather some miserable score!

 

There are stupid people everywhere, alas. But stupid ones trying to justify their stupidity is really impertinent.

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I'm not sure that it is a good idea to ban players for behavior that isn't explicitly against the rules. xjammer didn't exactly invent the practice of "spawn camping" in MP games, after all. By all means ban the practice (I can only imagine how infuriating it must have been for the affected players), but banning players for unsportsmanlike yet legal conduct would quickly winnow the ranks on both sides.

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12 minutes ago, Manstein16 said:

I'm not sure that it is a good idea to ban players for behavior that isn't explicitly against the rules. xjammer didn't exactly invent the practice of "spawn camping" in MP games, after all. By all means ban the practice (I can only imagine how infuriating it must have been for the affected players), but banning players for unsportsmanlike yet legal conduct would quickly winnow the ranks on both sides.

 

I don't think there are that many players who will be affected by banning those who literally land on enemy fields and shoot the pilots out of spawning planes.

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Manstein, please be aware that he wasn't strafing people on the runway, but spawn camping, by standing next to the spawn meters beside the spawn point, and sniping the pilots' head. 

 

The screen wouldn't even load up. You'd basically press start, and be dead. 

 

To add insult to the injury his posts and comments showed that he thought it was funny, before he edited them. 

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

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Just to clarify, what did you expect? You saw the AF being under attack so you wanted to die on runway, not in hangar or wherever?

I can see how this was a dick move by xJammer but at the same time you took the risk spawning there.
Yes it may be bad manners but it is not worthy of a ban. Just patch it befor this becomes common behawior and forget about it, duh.

It's only a game, why you heff to be mad?

 

Edited by =/Hospiz/=uGryzzli

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1 minute ago, =/Hospiz/=uGryzzli said:

Just to clarify, what did you expect? You saw the AF being under attack so you wanted to die on runway, not in hangar or wherever?

I can see how this was a dick move by xJammer but at the same time you took the risk spawning there.
Yes it may be bad manners but it is not worthy of a ban.

 

This attitude leads to a future of a large squad landing at every airfield on a map and shutting down an entire team.

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1 minute ago, Talon_ said:

 

This attitude leads to a future of a large squad landing at every airfield on a map and shutting down an entire team.

Yes, that's why I see this as only an example of what could happen. Instead of shitting on xjammer we should persuade mission designer to prevent this so what you're saying won't happen

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I see xJammer has been doing more friends lately. But why you guys want to get him banned? I mean i agree he has a notorious psychopath behaviour enjoying himself when other people it's having a bad time, i agree he is one hell of a troll who also turns a flightsim into an arcade Air Quake arena, but why ban him? He did nothing against the rules.

 

Actually we have to be thankful to this character, cause with his constant exploits, it's much easier to see the server flaws and try to correct them for the following edition.

 

I have already suggested many changes for next TAW, some of them refer to punishing suicide bombers like xJammer by applying a X minutes ban for KIA/captured pilots. I'd say 15' kick for KIA/captured and 5' for bailed ones. And on top of that it would also be nice to have some kind of system like the one at "Operation Blue Flag" server in DCS, where if a pilot loses three lives he is banned till lives reset (every 4 to 5 hours).

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20 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Manstein, please be aware that he wasn't strafing people on the runway, but spawn camping, by standing next to the spawn meters beside the spawn point, and sniping the pilots' head. 

 

The screen wouldn't even load up. You'd basically press start, and be dead. 

 

To add insult to the injury his posts and comments showed that he thought it was funny, before he edited them. 

 

I'm aware of what he was doing. It was extremely poor form...but also in compliance with the existing ruleset. That ruleset needs to be changed to ban non-flying spawn camping ASAP, of course, but that is different from banning a player who respected the current ruleset (if not in spirit).

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8 minutes ago, ECV56_Chimango said:

Actually we have to be thankful to this character, cause with his constant exploits, it's much easier to see the server flaws and try to correct them for the following edition.

^ This. Exactly what I'm saying.

 

9 minutes ago, ECV56_Chimango said:

I'd say 15' kick for KIA/captured and 5' for bailed ones.

Personally I dont like these type of punishments because this system cannot differenciate between player trying to play fair and failing (sometimes you just get shot down) and yolo flyouts.
If you get kicked regardless what's the point trying?

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Perhaps the rule should be:

If you find and use an exploit, and are found to be using the exploit, then you get a warning.  

If you repeat the exploit after a warning , then you get banned.

 

It will, of course, be on the admins to fix the exploit (if possible) as soon as possible.  

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6 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

Salient point from one of my guys

 

 

Screenshot_20181223-132247.png

 

Someone might want to tell the pilots of the U.S. 7th Air Force in the Pacific that. AF sniping, intentional rammings, and suicidal airlandings on U.S. runways by the Japanese were a fact of life. Hopefully that doesn't mean that TAW is going to allow those practices just because they happened in real life.

Edited by Manstein16

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