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Tactical Air War

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9 hours ago, Alonzo said:

 

I wonder if the P-40 was made 0/2 on map 1 if it would improve attractiveness for Red pilots. Today once you earn a P-40 it's extremely precious and you have no backup plane. The I16, I'm sorry, is almost useless against 109s. I've heard many of our pilots mentioning over comms how reluctant they are to 'risk' their P-40, and there are many missions where if they don't have a P-40 they cannot fly fighter cover for a deep bomber strike -- the I16 just doesn't have the range.

 

Totally disagree , you need to learn how to fly a i-16 to its strengths, and exploit the 109s weaknesses.

The 109e7 may control the engagement if he has more energy, if equal or less the i-16 has the advantage.

and any plane operating at low energy is in real trouble against the 1-16. It rolls like a fw and turns like a spitfire throughout its speed range .

It does not lockup like a 109 either when faster. You also need to learn engine management if u want more range from i-16...(RPM and mixture, it has a big operating range on both)

 

Edited by =RS=Stix_09
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2 hours ago, =FI=Blue2 said:

 

"Far less realistic"???   Sorry, totally disagree.  I'd say it makes the ground targets far less 'gamey,' and adds much more realistic 'fog of war' to the ground attack scenario - and this is coming from someone who flies a lot more ground attack than fighters in IL-2.  For example I'm sure you realize that de-tracking alone only immobilizes a real tank, temporarily; it can still fight if it's crew stays in it.  We know for a fact that 1942 Sturmovik or Stuka pilots had very little idea how many vehicles they truly destroyed as they flew back home, because records reveal huge overclaims were rampant on all sides, especially tank claims.  Sure, the new damage modeling changes the game & adds a lot more uncertainty.  It means that now you're best bet is to attack in a larger group that is communicating, so you can ensure all targets are hit, and hit hard enough to raise the odds that they're destroyed or badly damaged. If you must go in pairs or singles, it's now imperative to communicate with the rest of your team & learn whether your target was already hit or not, and which part(s) of it might be less damaged & need your bombs.  Now I love the satisfaction of the always-exploding tank as much as anyone, but like it or not, I think this change brought a lot more realism to this aspect of the game than it had up to now.  My hat's off to the devs on this change, for sure.


The problem I see with the current tank DM and TAW mechanics is that since a de-tracked tank usually counts as destroyed, you could have a wiped out column with all well-looking tanks (and probably combat capable the next day or so). Also I noticed it was really hard to get a tank exploding via ammo explosion even after hitting with plenty 37mm ammo (both German and Russian) at the hull below the turrets. I'm not saying tanks should be one-shot by 37mm, but I think ammo/fuel fires should be more common after some penetrations

I think the de-tracked tanks shouldn't count as destroyed, same for the tanks with all crew lost (if it's inside their lines/forces), they would be combat ineffective, but the next mission they could be back.

 

17 minutes ago, StG77_HvB said:

If it were up to me to fix this I'd give a guy a "damaged" credit for knocking off a track, and a "kill" to the guy who blows it up.

 

yeah, the stats didn't follow the more detailed DM, they should be more detailed as well.

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250kg bombs not exploding tanks like they should I feel.

 

I get the impression that a tank when tracked cannot be damaged any further but does not count as a kill.

Edited by Talon_
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2 hours ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:


The problem I see with the current tank DM and TAW mechanics is that since a de-tracked tank usually counts as destroyed, you could have a wiped out column with all well-looking tanks (and probably combat capable the next day or so). Also I noticed it was really hard to get a tank exploding via ammo explosion even after hitting with plenty 37mm ammo (both German and Russian) at the hull below the turrets. I'm not saying tanks should be one-shot by 37mm, but I think ammo/fuel fires should be more common after some penetrations

I think the de-tracked tanks shouldn't count as destroyed, same for the tanks with all crew lost (if it's inside their lines/forces), they would be combat ineffective, but the next mission they could be back.

 

 

yeah, the stats didn't follow the more detailed DM, they should be more detailed as well. (look at the sortie log for flight shows damage, don't need a stat)

 

 

 A detracked tank is repairable, so it's not destroyed.  To be destroyed a vehicle needs to suffer critical unrepairable damage (that's how it should be done). No different whether ground or air. Trying to award a part kill (damaged) its really not practical , just over complicates it.

 

If you look at the mission editor mechanics, there are quite a number of events possible around damage and kills and its up to the mission designer to decide how they use it.

 

Eg. (this may be incorrect now with 3.007 patch...

Spoiler

 

image.png.c740e01951501435ae0210b06f230729.png

 

image.png.06932955930c6917e9b9d95b98ee905d.png

image.png.5f323756a05cebb10c91018a13561d62.png

 

 

These apply to planes and tanks. The latest update has also changed some of the kill mechanics, but I'm still not clear how this works in relation to the MCU (control commands) in the editor , which is used to create missions.

 

The devs publish changes with a patch , but don't detail exactly  how its actually implemented in game....As a mission designers, we are often guessing how it now works...

 

 

 

Edited by =RS=Stix_09

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On 11/27/2018 at 3:02 PM, Tincannavy said:

PLEASE give Russian pilots at least the P40 right from the start during the early war maps NO ONE wants to fly I-16 especially when the Germans have the Bf109 E It's not even close to fair or more importantly fun!

 

On 11/27/2018 at 5:49 PM, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

 

Untrue. The I16 is my favorite aircraft to fly in game. I have a lot of fun in it. It can climb with an E7 and outroll it. It can't catch it in a flat run nor out turn it. A few tweaks to the way it's flown and it is a very competitive fighter.

I know others enjoy the I16 a lot too.

On 11/27/2018 at 7:25 PM, F/JG300_Faucon said:

E7 can out-turn it, quite easily. 

😂 P40 is a far worse dog fighter (the worst??) than i-16 (only better in a dive) and its guns (maybe) if not using  cannons on I-16

 

🤣

I-16 is a fantastic plane, people justdon't know it.... good for me....  and 7./JG26_Smokejumper

E7 is a great plane too, you just fly it different to the I-16 , or u are toast. Good matchup.

 

Problem is with pilot not plane: I agree with 7./JG26_Smokejumper and can back it with stats.

 I-16 rolls better, at all speeds it can do. An doesn't lockup like a 109 when faster. It also has far better visibility to e7 (arguably the best in the game)

 

The 109e7 advantage is it retains energy better and its faster speed. On equal energy the I-16 is better.

The i-16 also has a better climb on deck and similar rate higher.


EDIT:

I did some asking around and apparently the E7 can out turn the i-16 in a sustained turn, which will be its better energy retention I think.
Paper stats are not all apparently, but they are still a good matchup , better than p40.

 

Stats Compared:

Spoiler

I-16

Maximum performance turn at sea level: 19.0 s, at 230 km/h IAS.

Maximum performance turn at 3000 m: 25.3 s, at 230 km/h IAS.

 

Climb rate at sea level: 16.7 m/s

Climb rate at 3000 m: 13.8 m/s

Climb rate at 6000 m: 8.8 m/s

Maximum true air speed at sea level, engine mode - Boosted: 448 km/h
Maximum true air speed at 1800 m, engine mode - Nominal: 460 km/h
Maximum true air speed at 4500 m, engine mode - Nominal: 490 km/h

 

E7

Maximum performance turn at sea level: 20.5 s, at 270 km/h IAS.

Maximum performance turn at 3000 m: 25.5 s, at 270 km/h IAS.

 

Climb rate at sea level: 14 m/s

Climb rate at 3000 m: 13.3 m/s

Climb rate at 6000 m: 7 m/s

Maximum true air speed at sea level, engine mode - Emergency: 477 km/h
Maximum true air speed at 2000 m, engine mode - Emergency: 520 km/h
Maximum true air speed at 5000 m, engine mode - Emergency: 564 km/h

 

 

Edited by =RS=Stix_09
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2 hours ago, Talon_ said:
250kg bombs not exploding tanks like they should I feel.

 

I get the impression that a tank when tracked cannot be damaged any further but does not count as a kill.

 

Try for yourself in QMB. Once a tank is 'tracked' and you get a kill credit, it takes a LOT more hits/damage for it to blow up like they used to. Go with like a Stuka with unlimited ammo to see, after you track it with 1-2 hits, take note of how many more hits that tank will take. Preferably it is a lighter tank like a BT-7 or T70 for you to see how many more hits even that light tank can take. 

Edited by StG77_Kondor

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10 minutes ago, StG77_Kondor said:

 

Try for yourself in QMB. Once a tank is 'tracked' and you get a kill credit, it takes a LOT more hits/damage for it to blow up like they used to. Go with like a Stuka with unlimited ammo to see, after you track it with 1-2 hits, take note of how many more hits that tank will take. Preferably it is a lighter tank like a BT-7 or T70 for you to see how many more hits even that light tank can take. 

 

I suspect QMB has some problems registering kills right now , I've seen the green kills message show a plane I shot is down , but nothing shows in stats. i suspect it due to latest 3.007 patch changes, breaking mission code, probably because they did not update quick mission with the new mechanics... Kills can also depend on how mission designers code them.

 

 

Edited by =RS=Stix_09
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Stix, the turning stats of the I16 don't help you if you're outnumbered 5:1 in the fighter department (European evening, 55vs25, most Russians in Peshkas and IL2s, most Germans love their E7 and the 110). You'll tease a hornet nest - can't outrun them, but also cannot out turn superior numbers. 

Good thing that jumping out is almost instant in I16! 

 

The P40 can at least run away, and works better as an underdog fighter because of this (and its high alpha strike damage). 

 

You also get the Tiger camo. 

 

 

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10 hours ago, =FSB=HandyNasty said:

I'd like to send PM to Kathon (or other TAW admin), but I apparently cannot send Kathon a PM through the forum??

Any help?

 

Gents,

 

Please send PM to another pilot from =LG= team when Kathon mail box is full.

Kathon is a "God" here, we know that, but sometimes he need our help and time to do everything well. 

Please respect this and be patient ;)

 

 

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Right now you can belly-land the aircraft at 600kph and as long as the wing doesn't come off it is ready to be flown again as soon as you despawn.

 

Can we change that any damage whatsoever to an aircraft would put it on a 1-mission "ditched" cooldown but at the same time still count for CM+1 missions if landed back at the friendly airfield? This will at least encourage some people (including me) to deploy gear before attempting to land. I'd bet mechanics take longer than 15 seconds to repaint the bottom and fit a new prop to the aircraft.

Edited by xJammer
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7 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Stix, the turning stats of the I16 don't help you if you're outnumbered 5:1 in the fighter department (European evening, 55vs25, most Russians in Peshkas and IL2s, most Germans love their E7 and the 110). You'll tease a hornet nest - can't outrun them, but also cannot out turn superior numbers. 

Good thing that jumping out is almost instant in I16! 

 

The P40 can at least run away, and works better as an underdog fighter because of this (and its high alpha strike damage). 

 

You also get the Tiger camo. 

 

 

 

Ya for sure i just got shot down by the swarm (4 on 1), because ppl keep flying ground attackers, likely because they underrate the i-16 (sadly).

 

 

Ya I give you that p40 can run....  but I don't want to run.... :-), but its totally outclassed by 109e7 in a dogfight unless it has height.

 

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Allies own 75% of the map, but only has 10 planes left. 

I think that this may be the greatest symptom of BOTH sides employing the "time zone buff" along with the strengths of their plane sets in a server that's still working out how to balance teams.  

Anyway... Well played, Axis. :salute:

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I can't remember the last time I got addicted to a game like that, flying all the way until late nights. Probably 10 years ago or so. I am pretty sure I will see axis tank convoys advancing to Lotoshino in my nightmares at some point...

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10 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

Allies own 75% of the map, but only has 10 planes left. 

I think that this may be the greatest symptom of BOTH sides employing the "time zone buff" along with the strengths of their plane sets in a server that's still working out how to balance teams.  

Anyway... Well played, Axis. :salute:

 

Actually on Axis side the word was spread few days ago to adopt a more defensive strategy and destroy as many planes as possible before VVS side wins the map :happy:

It was really close, with maybe 1 or 2 days more VVS would have win!

 

Really fun map#1, hope Reds will stay as combative on next ones :salute:

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IMHO once blues had three airfields only, we should had wiped them out instead of doing close air support as usual.

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Just now, mincer said:

IMHO once blues had three airfields only, we should had wiped them out instead of doing close air support as usual.

 

Thats VVS in a nutshell for you. They tend to lose already won maps by not focusing on bombing the last airfields. Last campaign red lost a map with only 1 enemy airfield left iirc.

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19 minutes ago, Operation_Ivy said:

 

Thats VVS in a nutshell for you. They tend to lose already won maps by not focusing on bombing the last airfields. Last campaign red lost a map with only 1 enemy airfield left iirc.

 

Another night and we probably could have pulled it off. My group alone bombed out Simonkovo field on Sunday night, Lukovnikovo depot on Wednesday night and Sychevka depot on Thursday night. Considering Simonkovo was basically untouched when we arrived and we didn't even need all our bombs I feel confident we could have got at least 2 fields tonight if we still had enough planes 😅

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23 minutes ago, [GCA]T1m270 said:

How is it that the Axis side has a larger plane pool? From the warehouse marked on the map?

 

No it depends on maps, map #1 corresponds to the German offensive on Moscow.
VVS will have a bigger pool than Axis later in the campaign.

 

Quoted from TAW manual :

"Different maps may have different number of limits at the beginning for each side. In Axis offensive map Axis have more limits and for the first several missions they mainly attack by tanks convoy. Similarly in Allied counteroffensive map Allied have advantage in limits and tanks convoys at the beginning."

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46 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

Allies own 75% of the map, but only has 10 planes left. 

I think that this may be the greatest symptom of BOTH sides employing the "time zone buff" along with the strengths of their plane sets in a server that's still working out how to balance teams.  

Anyway... Well played, Axis. :salute:

 

Exactly. Pe2 is by far the best aircraft for killing ground stuff, especially when Axis has no fast fighters to intercept. On the other side Allies didn't have an aircraft to challenge mid to higher alts. Both is going to change with the next map, gonna be interesting how that will change the dynamic 🙂

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3 minutes ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

Ahaha, we can still do it comrades.  Nobody use that last aircraft!


Yes, just don't fly! Don't fly!

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1 hour ago, Operation_Ivy said:

 

Thats VVS in a nutshell for you. They tend to lose already won maps by not focusing on bombing the last airfields. Last campaign red lost a map with only 1 enemy airfield left iirc.

25 minutes ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

Ahaha, we can still do it comrades.  Nobody use that last aircraft!

1. I wish we can get more of the squadrons to use the TAW discord red channel for Information Dumps and Cpordinating/Lrtting other unitz know what operatioms they run. I enjoy Teamspeak for Voip, But jump on the TAW discord to get informed or let other players know through the Red Text chat qhats going on.

 

2. Im cackling at work just seeing we only have one Plane left, Onto Mission 66 Comrads!

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Yeah there's lots of groups flying on Red yet i can't find any that are running on public voice servers. Shame.

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I'll join TAW Allies: English-speaking channel when I play, but I'll be dipped in shit if I let Discord onto my computer again.  I know it's just me, but I HATE it.  I've never had such a confusing and frustrating time as trying to set up Discharge to do what I want and join channels. Never again. 

40 minutes ago, MentalishMan said:

1. I wish we can get more of the squadrons to use the TAW discord red channel for Information Dumps and Cpordinating/Lrtting other unitz know what operatioms they run. I enjoy Teamspeak for Voip, But jump on the TAW discord to get informed or let other players know through the Red Text chat qhats going on.

 

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I was just re-reading the TAW manual.  I noticed the section about 'Warehouses' I see that Axis have one up that I think most of us overlooked as a viable target.  But... does anyone recall Allies ever having a warehouse spawn during this map?  We sure could have used +80 planes... 

 

3.10 Warehouses and ships

Warehouses and ships are spawned and visible on the map once a few days. If not destroyed they increase limits by.

Warehouse:

· 80 aircraft

· 150 tanks

· 240 trucks

Ships:

· 135 aircraft

· 225 tanks

· 360 trucks

Damaged or partially destroyed warehouse or ships increase limits by accordingly smaller amount.

Edited by Mobile_BBQ

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We did a flight over it to recon, could see NO targets at the map marker ingame. We thought it was a bug or somehow linked to another objective?

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18 minutes ago, TheKillerSloth said:

Do people actually enjoy the server when there are 55 on blue and 22 on red?

For the Blues they probably love it, Eric Heartman Simulator over there/s.

Its the Prime time EU evening hours, I play Red and jump on around 5 to 6 PM CST where its usually even. (Sometimes not all the time). The weekends will probably be messt but that should even it out with the NA players who dont work saturday bolstering the VVS EU Players.

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I like your optimism and hopefully it evens out. When the numbers are like that I don't see the joy in flying either side.

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3 minutes ago, TheKillerSloth said:

I like your optimism and hopefully it evens out. When the numbers are like that I don't see the joy in flying either side.

It depends, it looks like our bomber boys did some hard damage to the german defense. They are working within thr hand they have been dealt. Everyone wants to get a shot to play within their own reasonable time frame and may it be a ton of Axis or Allied players, they will craft fun out of it.

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As long as you are flying as an organized group, you can achieve goals, even if it is 60 vs 20. You won't face all 60 blues at the same place and same time anyway; you can even create a local superiority.

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44 minutes ago, TheKillerSloth said:

Do people actually enjoy the server when there are 55 on blue and 22 on red?

People have presented evidence that both sides do what they can during the weekdays to take advantage of 'time zone buffs'.  In other words, some time zones seem to have many more Axis players and some seem to have more Allies players.  When a time zone comes to prime-time you may very well see the stack shift heavily one way or the other.  Weekends can be a bit more unpredictable with people having days off from work and such.   

If you have free time, wait until the stack shifts to your team.  If not, then go into battle bravely and do what you can to avoid getting caught in the middle of the hornet's nest.  :salute: 

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This weekend is going to suck if friday EU night is anything to go by. The lag is killing the server, no visual for bombs, cant spawn etc. 

 

What actually causes the lag? ~15 extra players over 80 slots trying to download the mission constantly?

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On 11/28/2018 at 7:10 AM, 392FS_Jred said:

Having no issues busting tanks/AA with 100kg bombs with the i16 this morning. Having a blast. Helps there's no pesky 109's buzzing around the area! Racking up combat missions for that sweet, sweet p-40. This server, along with the new and improved VR performance, this is like a whole new game for me. It's insanely fun. The i16 in VR is just tits. Makes me want to purchase flying circus, open cockpit VR is the beesknees.

 

ARE YOU IMPLYING THAT VR WAS BROKEN!!!?!?!!

 

🤣

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How the hell did axis win that map? We had them almost pushed back as far as you could go, they were down to two active airfields? Crazy how team stacking can change the tide just like that. At least we have better planes now eh? Oh we don't get migs till map 3 as standard are you kidding?!

Edited by 392FS_Jred

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