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Tactical Air War

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3 hours ago, SYN_Repent said:

i think what someone suggested earlier makes sense, give reds more aircraft.

 A large proportion red  player histories are a litany of fighter type crashes, bailouts, deaths and ditches for ZERO positive impact. Its clear that many players seem to have a pretty cavalier attitude to persevering airframes and will only ever lower themselves to climb into a PE2 in order to get a probably unnecessary but short supply CM under their belt to get another fighter after they have run out. 

 

Of course its the same for the Blues but they have the luxury on this map of a larger buffer and slightly better fighter aircraft. And they are still ahead in Air kills thanks in the main to a few high scoring aces and a seemingly endless supply of fly, die repeat saps to shoot down. This situation will no doubt reverse on later maps. 

 

In short I agree that the contrive of less aircraft for defenders doesn't work. And whilst the equalisation of numbers may only draw out the inevitable whilst one side suffers the consequences of above practices more than the other on any given map , it does perhaps provide more scope for those less concerned with a WOL experience to continue to at least try and make a fight of it instead of simply tossing it off or attempting to climb one table or another just because they can.  

 

Regardless - im enjoying my time of TAW - Thanks to all concerned. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, SCG_Riksen said:

 

An unbalanced one where there is little incentive to fly as red. Give me at least extra planes as a "Thank you for being your target" lol

Why is "unbalanced"? reds have Il2 ("Tank Killer") , have P40, and have Pe2, I16 no have cannon yeah, but, whit his 7.92 mm bullet can down a 109 easily his radiador is so fragile that in 6 minutes it will no have engine, and "Emil" only have 60 canon bullets vrs Pe2, is insuficient.

We are using 110s like figther because thats, to try kill the enemy bomber, like reds using their Il2 like us to kill 110 etc. We have insuffient bullets and you have insuficent cal. is equal. Now in my pilots virtual life, i saw how many reds going to our position only to die, they attack how if no where tomorrow, and die, not have scort, and always figth low and slow, so, they are loosing because to us is easy shootdown them.

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6 hours ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

We feel flak might be slightly heavier than before, and possibly the nearby airfield's flak has range to shoot over the depot. Theres LOTS of flak puffs and the fire feels very accurate. Unfortunately that is not the case for Lukovnikovo depot, Peshkas attack it with impunity at low alt once its own flak was destroyed.

Salutations Pilots,

 

Just a obvious observation and question. Flak is a real problem for bombers. Ergo... isn't It logical to send ahead flights of smaller craft to take out all or at least some of the flak positions.

 

I realize that this is easier said than done, but is it or has it been done and if so what were the results? :salute:

Edited by Thad
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Reds have Il-2 without 23mm nor 37mm, I-16 without Shvak, less aircraft in the hangar than blues (including Ju-87D-3 with 37mm at the first map), and can't air capture (as if this was something with little impact...).

 

I don't get the argument "reds have p-40 and pe-2". P-40 is an engine-management nightmare and Pe-2 has half of any blue bomber payload, in fact I'd say that the Pe-2 is more similar to the 110. And let's not enter into the aircraft fragility stuff which belong to another thread...

 

Regarding weird stats, there goes a 5-turret 110: 

http://taw-server.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=8431&name=1./JG42flesch

 

 

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I gotta say though this is what IL2 multiplayer should be all the time, this is truly epic stuff. Came home early from work today to hopefully get some time on when there is actually people playing. Looks like AXIS are getting their butts handed to them right now, allies have almost the entire map. I still don't get how it works 100% but I have a general idea.

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37 minutes ago, Thad said:

Salutations Pilots,

 

Just a obvious observation and question. Flak is a real problem for bombers. Ergo... isn't It logical to send ahead flights of smaller craft to take out all or at lease some of the flak positions.

 

I realize that this is easier said than done, but is it or has it been done and if so what were the results? :salute:

 

Of course it can be done. But not many want to fly one-way sorties to 130-150 km behind the lines with sub-par equipment(no armor, no rockets) for dealing with the flak. And unfortunately we dont have the numbers to fly 10+ man sorties either.

 

edit: yes we realize trading 5-6 planes or something for chance to destroy whole depot without flak is easily worth it. But I think that promotes suicide missions and we dont do those.

Edited by LeLv76_Erkki

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12 minutes ago, Thad said:

Salutations Pilots,

 

Just a obvious observation and question. Flak is a real problem for bombers. Ergo... isn't It logical to send ahead flights of smaller craft to take out all or at lease some of the flak positions.

 

I realize that this is easier said than done, but is it or has it been done and if so what were the results? :salute:

what common sense heresy is this?!!  

 

Use what is available in a co-ordinated and creative manner? Have you had a bump on the head?  No no no. This wont do at all. Simply not cricket. 

 

Be gone with you, you purveyor of sound tactics - the Reds insist on their right to waste an airframe every 2 missions for nought!

 

TBH I suspect and have often witnessed the more organised squads/affiliations do this but the number of fly die repeat lone wolfers who don't/wont/cant seems to have really hurt the reserve stocks in this map Not just with the flak but by flying lone fighters into hot zones repeatedly whilst somehow expecting a different outcome to their last attempt.

 

I don't think its necessarily just bloody mindedness (in some cases) but some languages in TS are very sparsely populated at times which certainly discourages me from sitting on it just waiting for someone to come questioning me about how the game works cos they cant be bothered to RTFM. That lack of coms makes co-ordination via chat pretty "meh". 

 

2 minutes ago, Garven_Dreis said:

Reds got the shaft on the first map. 

 

The reds did not help themselves like suicidal fruit bats. 

 

9 minutes ago, 15th_JonRedcorn said:

I gotta say though this is what IL2 multiplayer should be all the time, this is truly epic stuff. Came home early from work today to hopefully get some time on when there is actually people playing. Looks like AXIS are getting their butts handed to them right now, allies have almost the entire map. I still don't get how it works 100% but I have a general idea.

 

The Blues are just circling waiting for us to bleed out our remaining 91 aircraft on yet another one way mission. 

 

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This game DESPERATELY needs in game voice chat. It would make every single server that much better. I can't imagine it's that hard to implement. Multiplayer games have had voice chat for decades now. It would make teamwork so much easier, you could link up and fly formations with randoms on every server. I wonder if that new tower control feature will be something like that? I wonder how that will work.

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31 minutes ago, BOO said:

The reds did not help themselves like suicidal fruit bats. 

To be honest flying the I-16 against 109's is suicide the moment you takeoff.  When stuck at a significant disadvantage people have a tendency to start not caring how they fly, because they'll figure they will be shot-down anyways.  The problem we face is getting people to try and rise above their disadvantages. 

Edited by Garven_Dreis

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Just now, HR_Tofolo said:

Reds have Il-2 without 23mm nor 37mm

have canon, bombs and rocket and heavy protection, its better than slow Stuka whit munition only for 3 tanks if you are good, there is no comparation between both.

 

Just now, HR_Tofolo said:

less aircraft in the hangar than blues

yes we have Stuka, and Ju52, but do you have fligth Stukas and Ju52 before?, they are so slow and his gunner is harmless so, not everybody have Ju52.

 

Just now, HR_Tofolo said:

P-40 is an engine-management nightmare

yes, but this depend of pilot skill, the plane is very competitive vrs Emil they are good rival, reds are using like Jabo and they died because the come slow, and low, so if they using like high figter and take advange of this high armament and resistence to high velocity, must be like FW190, reds are not playing like another campaing only a few player are taking seriously.

Just now, HR_Tofolo said:

Pe-2 has half of any blue bomber payload

yes but they have almost double velocity of they (111 and Ju52) and a excelent gunner, so they no have many bombs like a Ju88 or He111 but is not foul of Taw creator, Pe2 is not a Heavy Bomber, like Pe8 or TB3, but is a bomber.

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5 minutes ago, Garven_Dreis said:

 

To be honest flying the I-16 against 109's is suicide the moment you takeoff.

So work up your supply (or better still bombing missions) to get a P40 perhaps..?

 

TBH people can do whatever they want - and I get the I16 is outclassed. Id certainly waste a good few if I was to use them but im crap and not in a squad and know my losses would hurt the team which is why I don't. .But that's me and I can enjoy TAW regardless of who wins. 

 

But I don't buy the "shafted", born to loose, unbalanced/nerfed arguments.. Ultimately its not the plane set or the numbers. Its how they are being used and how uselessly they are being wasted on straight run dives into the AA and embroiling dogfights at low altitude. . This afternoon I looked at 3 random sergeant ranks - between the three they had flown 54 combat mission (so excluding the many useless 12 min resupply ops to get a fighter having already lost their initial allocation), lost 25 aircraft to bails/crashes (so not counting ditches) - all this for 3 EA and 15 GA kills between them (no AA, no tanks).

 

Just my own opinion but players losing aircraft at a rate of 8/1 should perhaps consider another career path or tactic at least for one map. 

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26 minutes ago, BOO said:

So work up your supply (or better still bombing missions) to get a P40 perhaps..?

I've avoided flying the I-16 for the most part and have flown mostly Pe-2 sorties so you don't need to tell me that, but when blue has more of everything and better fighters without the grind it puts you at a significant disadvantage.  I will say my performance has been less than good and I need to work harder to improve and reduce the amount of dumb mistakes I make as my G/k to aircraft lost ratio is horrible at 5GK per lost plane.

Edited by Garven_Dreis

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5 hours ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

 

. I have recorded some bomb runs if anyone wants to do comparison with what they experience. 

 

 

 

Yes, please post them. 

I'm always very interested in other people ideas and tactics .

 

1 hour ago, 15th_JonRedcorn said:

This game DESPERATELY needs in game voice chat. It would make every single server that much better. I can't imagine it's that hard to implement. Multiplayer games have had voice chat for decades now. It would make teamwork so much easier, you could link up and fly formations with randoms on every server. I wonder if that new tower control feature will be something like that? I wonder how that will work.

You can always join discord or team speak channel

Edited by Carl_infar

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12 minutes ago, Carl_infar said:

Yes, please post them. 

I'm always very interested in other people ideas and tactics .

 

You can always join discord or team speak channel

Those 3rd party tools are great, unfortunately not that many people use them. If we had ingame voip we would have far greater teamwork. More people would use it I can almost guarantee that.

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Just now, Garven_Dreis said:

To be honest flying the I-16 against 109's is suicide the moment you takeoff. 

Really guys? I-16 have better roll, better turn rate, and better climb rate, whit WEP its almost than fast like Emil before 3k mtrs, and have much more visibilty from back.

Emil have better armament, resistent to high velocity, and more fast than i16, but is much better at high altitude, if you figth with a Emil low ,I16 have advantage, and if figth with a i16 higth, Emil have adventage, Emil have only 60 bullets cannon to shoot down a plane that is very small and maneuverable, and I16 have much low cal. bullet to shoot donw a figther more big whit week engine. For me, they are equal, pilot decides who wins not the plane.

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1 minute ago, Garven_Dreis said:

I've avoided flying the I-16 for the most part and have flown mostly Pe-2 sorties so you don't need to tell me that, but when blue has more of everything and better fighters without the grind it puts you at a significant disadvantage.  I will say my performance has been less than good and I need to work harder to improve and reduce the amount of dumb mistakes I make.

I get the grind but a few well though out 4 and 5K level bombing missions are less likely to waste airframes in losses to AA, AAA and 109s, offer some challenge in hitting the target from which you can take some pride and may bag you 4CM a go, quickly filling up your stock so the I16 is just something your keeping for the kids and the occasional Sunday fly. Personally, whilst im an awful fighter flyer, I don't think the I16 is too awful if its flown to its advantages (but what do I know)

 

Long Bomber flights are not everyone's bag I know but perhaps we'd still have a couple of hundred airframes left to continue the fight at this point if a few more considered it now and then instead of venturing out at 500M alone for a 15 min one way sortie..

 

I just get the impression on this map many players have been unable or unwilling to find their "place" within the wider venture and are just falling back to their default "WOL" or "fck it"practices with whatever they have,. Some go further to then blame campaign mechanics whilst failing to acknowledge that their own poor tactical decisions, in addition to an overall lack of co-ordinated strategy, have contributed to the current malaise that is a dwindling supply.. That's not a comment on you Garven (or if it is then its just as much a comment on me as well) just a general observation.

 

 

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Quote

307960_20180920203104_1.thumb.png.e6bb587c68666632e789578f709e20bd.png307960_20180920203230_1.thumb.png.70c677267d4fb7efd366637ce4c57adc.png

 

31 minutes ago, Carl_infar said:

Yes, please post them. 

I'm always very interested in other people ideas and tactics .

 

I dont think level bomb at high altitude is a particularly unique tactic.

 

Looks like tracks are several hundred mb a piece... Heres pictures of flak(it doesnt look too bad in still pictures) and someones end of a long mission streak. 5500 m IIRC.

Edited by LeLv76_Erkki

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Why was I given a 15 minute ban 10 seconds after joining the server? I had just got in at 83/84 and got insta banned. That's pretty lame.

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1) "The Ally plane set on Map #1 is inadequate"

>  While it is weak, I disagree.  With 50 planes left in the Ally supply list, Allies still have stalled the Axis advance and pushed back in places.

 

2) "No matter how much the Allies "push back", attrition will still lead to Axis winning the map."

>  I disagree.  I still stand by my assessment that capturing the southern depot when it was exposed would have given Allies enough momentum to keep capturing the rest of the Axis territory before attrition took its toll.

 

3) "Allies can't win due to being outnumbered."

>  I disagree.  Axis consistently having more players online is a story as old as the IL2 series has had multiplayer.  Absorb it and plan accordingly.  Besides, refer to point #1.

 

4) "Map #1 is purpose-built to give Axis a "give me" victory to set the "tone" of the historical situation. 

> I disagree.  It's illogical. That would mean Axis should have to ultimately win 6/8 for campaign victory and Allies only would have to win 5/8.  As far as I can tell, nobody is here to participate in battle reenactment where the winner of this phase of the war is already known.

 

5) "Being that the map and plane set are wonky, fly for yourself and don't worry about trying to win."

> Sorry to those who feel that way, but every time I go to multiplayer, I play for TEAM wins.  Personal wins such as, filling my plane set or scoring high are all nice bonuses on the way to team victory. 

 

I think I really need to take a break from this though.  People can complain about Luftwhiners all they want, but being served Red whine with chicken is bad for my stomach too. 

 

I wish ye all luck in battle, maybe I'll check the map progress sometime.   

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On 9/11/2018 at 11:41 AM, [TWB]Sketch said:

function didUserAskIfTAWstarts(asked) {
  var tawCounter = 0;
  if (asked.includes("TAW this week")) {
    tawCounter++
    return "TAW has been postponed " + tawCounter + " weeks."
  } else {
    return "TAW will start soon."
  }
};


didUserAskIfTAWstarts("Can we still expect the return of TAW this week?");


TAW has been postponed 1 weeks.

 

 

 

Fyi that taw counter variable is locally scoped so it will not increment as you expect. It will always be one week late.

 

If that's what you intended you could cut down your locs by half or so.

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26 minutes ago, 15th_JonRedcorn said:

Why was I given a 15 minute ban 10 seconds after joining the server? I had just got in at 83/84 and got insta banned. That's pretty lame.

 

 

Look on the website to see if it says it's full at the top.  If so, wait until it doesn't say that.  And don't worry, you're only banned until a slot opens up.  It's a kind of slot reservation system for the LG guys.

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2 hours ago, -=PHX=-Geo- said:

Really guys? I-16 have better roll, better turn rate, and better climb rate, whit WEP its almost than fast like Emil before 3k mtrs, and have much more visibilty from back.

Emil have better armament, resistent to high velocity, and more fast than i16, but is much better at high altitude, if you figth with a Emil low ,I16 have advantage, and if figth with a i16 higth, Emil have adventage, Emil have only 60 bullets cannon to shoot down a plane that is very small and maneuverable, and I16 have much low cal. bullet to shoot donw a figther more big whit week engine. For me, they are equal, pilot decides who wins not the plane.

 

At low/medium speed E7 can turn with I16 (if we forget the roll rate).

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Hello everyone, first let me say that i very much enjoyed playing TAW for the last week and want to say thank you to the community who participate and the creators of this beautiful server :), now let me share some thoughts.

 

I have been playing flight sim for a couple of years now, i started by playing War thunder, first arcade, then some realistic, and once i tired sim i was hooked. But one of the reasons why WT sim is dying that the devs balance things too much. They had amazing events and enduring confrotnations with historic plane sets, and it was great, you fought in battles with and against planes that were accurate to that particulate time period or battle. And it was never balanced, because history wasn't balanced, but it was fun, you could immerse yourself in the world, actually try to roleplay as a pilot of the era, trying to fight against numerical and technological ods. But now all the matchups are battle rating based, they give every plane a rank based on statistical performance, sometimes nonsensical, and you end up fighting La 5FN with BF 109 E3, or AM5 zero vs P47. This isn't a game about balance. It's inherently imbalanced, and that's what makes it fun.

 

Anyway, this mode, game, or any realistic WW2 game that's not hit point based will never be balanced, because all machines have their advantages and disadvantages, and playing with/against those is part of the fun.  I only have the BoS pack and was flying only Ju87 or supply missions, but i felt like i am contributing to the campaign, i found my niche and tried to do the best i could to secure objectives or assist the team. To me capturing that feeling is way more important than having perfect balance. Besides what is the fun in playing for the winning team  ?

 

Also, how do night maps work ? i haven't seen a single one, but i assume they are present in the campaign? 😕 I would really like to do some night stealth ops.

 

 

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3 hours ago, [TWB]Sketch said:

It was intended to be funny? I didn't know I was gonna get a code review! 😕

 

 

Consider it a freebee ;)

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14 hours ago, BOO said:

I get the grind but a few well though out 4 and 5K level bombing missions are less likely to waste airframes in losses to AA, AAA and 109s, offer some challenge in hitting the target from which you can take some pride and may bag you 4CM a go, quickly filling up your stock so the I16 is just something your keeping for the kids and the occasional Sunday fly. Personally, whilst im an awful fighter flyer, I don't think the I16 is too awful if its flown to its advantages (but what do I know)

 

Long Bomber flights are not everyone's bag I know but perhaps we'd still have a couple of hundred airframes left to continue the fight at this point if a few more considered it now and then instead of venturing out at 500M alone for a 15 min one way sortie..

 

I just get the impression on this map many players have been unable or unwilling to find their "place" within the wider venture and are just falling back to their default "WOL" or "fck it"practices with whatever they have,. Some go further to then blame campaign mechanics whilst failing to acknowledge that their own poor tactical decisions, in addition to an overall lack of co-ordinated strategy, have contributed to the current malaise that is a dwindling supply.. That's not a comment on you Garven (or if it is then its just as much a comment on me as well) just a general observation.

 

 

3 of us went to the depot at 5k I was the only one that had any idea how to operate the bomb sight; long story short I forgot what sight mode I was in and all our bombs fell way short extremely pissed at myself I wasted 45min of 3 peoples time (starting to think my screen name is cursed).  Its hard to get excited about doing depot runs when you only have 10X100kg bombs especially when you consider time a resource.  I'm sorry I get frustrated at the way things are going poorly when I'm trying to do my best, and just take it out on the closest thing at hand which is our disadvantage in plane-set and numbers.  I agree we lost because we didn't fly well enough.

Edited by Garven_Dreis

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There are no intel pictures available for Dyatlevo and Zubtsovo (at least on two PCs I've checked it so far). Is there any secondary source I could use?

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This thread has a very long tradition of criticism and complaints. No matter how much of his spare time @=LG=Kathon puts into this project, i'm pretty sure some of you guys will find something that they can complain about. It will never be possible to please every single one of you. TAW is not perfect, nor will it ever be. But there is just no other server out there like it. So please, enjoy it, as it it is right now, make the best out of it. If you don't like TAW, then just don't play it, nobody forces you to. Nothing against some well intended critisism, but everytime a new campaign starts, it's the same shit, over and over again.. 
I like playing TAW, it's a lot of fun, every campaign i did so far. Thanks =LG= for that!
 

Edited by [I./JG62]Knipser
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=LG=Kathon

 

Is it possible to increase a number of the MIG3 planes to 2 (To make it equal for +1 109F4)?

 

P.S: Don't understand why we have AGAIN +1 109F4 on the map N2. As discussed by the last campaign it is just a bad joke.

TAW_Map_2.png

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It is not OK.

 

I like these early maps because of i16 and i see no way to play it and fight vs 109f4.

 

P.S: Last campaing I was playing on the AXIS side and just ignored to use 109f4 on the map N2.

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2 hours ago, I./JG1_Pragr said:

There are no intel pictures available for Dyatlevo and Zubtsovo (at least on two PCs I've checked it so far). Is there any secondary source I could use?

 

Excactly!!! We really need them, and I feel due to this we are in disadvantage. How can we report it?

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3 hours ago, I./JG1_Pragr said:

There are no intel pictures available for Dyatlevo and Zubtsovo (at least on two PCs I've checked it so far). Is there any secondary source I could use?

 

It will be fixed as soon as possible.

 

1 hour ago, Norz said:

=LG=Kathon

 

Is it possible to increase a number of the MIG3 planes to 2 (To make it equal for +1 109F4)?

 

P.S: Don't understand why we have AGAIN +1 109F4 on the map N2. As discussed by the last campaign it is just a bad joke.

TAW_Map_2.png

 

If we removed the F-4 from map#2 someone would say: "Oh great! LG fly blue so they added F4 and now they fly red so they removed F4. How fair is it?" We decided to change plane set now after two campaigns: one we fly on blue side and then we fly on the red side.

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1 hour ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

IMHO MiG is somewhere between F-2 and F-4. That is, not bad at all, very fast. Can it be flown with twin ShVak?

 

Yep. TAW page doesn't mention any restriction.

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