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How can reds lose planes, especially considering the planeset, and pilots so quickly? Do they have more players now and extra losses are to flak or what?

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4 minutes ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

How can reds lose planes, especially considering the planeset, and pilots so quickly? Do they have more players now and extra losses are to flak or what?

 

Of the top 16 pilots (based on air kills), all but 3 are German. These 13 German pilots have 274 Russian air kills, all by themselves. (In comparison, the top 13 Russian pilots have 118 German air kills.... almost a 3:1 ratio.) So, yes; Red team is getting shot down more often.

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Dumb question time so forgive me but I cant see any reason in manual (but have probably missed it)

 

Give or take, the reds and blues see to match pretty evenly in terms of damage to airfields and depots - so how come the blues have more of everything in the reserved totals, for example 1600 aircraft versus the 1300 for the reds?

 

I know there is an answer - I just don't know it. 

 

Thanks

 

BOO

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I really want to try this server out some more, but I really dislike how unbalanced it is at times. Such as right now there are 37 blue pilots and 16 red logged on.

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20 minutes ago, sealgaire said:

I really want to try this server out some more, but I really dislike how unbalanced it is at times. Such as right now there are 37 blue pilots and 16 red logged on.

Well join anyhow and close the gap..

 

I wouldn't be too put off with 2 to 1 ratios. Some will be bombers, some will be escorting bombers, some will be ga, some will be flying resupply and some won't have a clue what the hell is going on. 

 

As long as you don't go in with high expectations of coming out on top by hanging about, lone wolfing over a hot spot there is much to do which ever situation your side finds itself in. 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, sealgaire said:

I really want to try this server out some more, but I really dislike how unbalanced it is at times. Such as right now there are 37 blue pilots and 16 red logged on.

 

No matter what server you visit, Allies will be outnumbered 90% of the time.  It's an old story that doesn't change and goes all the way back to the heydays of IL-2 '46.  If you fly Red, you just kind of have to roll with it and fly better. Get in with a good group and coordinate attacking and defending to counter the numbers. 

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54 minutes ago, BOO said:

Give or take, the reds and blues see to match pretty evenly in terms of damage to airfields and depots - so how come the blues have more of everything in the reserved totals, for example 1600 aircraft versus the 1300 for the reds?

Because this is an axis offensive map. Later there will be allied offensive maps, and stalemate maps where numbers are even.

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and this campaign is way better than the last one.

40 minutes ago, sealgaire said:

I really want to try this server out some more, but I really dislike how unbalanced it is at times. Such as right now there are 37 blue pilots and 16 red logged on.


2.x:1 is not a bad balanced compared to last campaign.

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3 minutes ago, DerSheriff said:

and this campaign is way better than the last one.


2.x:1 is not a bad balanced compared to last campaign.

 

True, but it does seem that Red is a bit gun shy about risking their plane set.  I was feeling lousy yesterday so I didn't fly, but I did check the TAW map occasionally.  I saw a few times when a mass attack - even if it cost some players their plane set, could have totally changed Red's current position, but nobody did.  Sorry for being an "easy chair general" about this.  Call me when Map #2 starts...

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19 minutes ago, 15th_JonRedcorn said:

If I had access to a p40 off the bat I'd jump to red right now.

 

Exactly. Reds should have at least advantage in plane number since almost every single campaign LW has higher numbers and is full of stacking squadrons ...

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Just now, SCG_Riksen said:

 

Exactly. Reds should have at least advantage in plane number since almost every single campaign LW has higher numbers and is full of stacking squadrons ...

It's a little ridiculous they are restricted to a i16... It's vastly outmatched. Not only that but people just don't want to fly the thing.

 

Also, last night, I was doing a bomb run in a 110, me and a 111 dove on the same target in a head on, I tried to go under him, had a 500lb bomb go right through my windshield and detonate on impact, I wasn't even mad I was dying laughing. The guy I was flying with also thought it was quite hilarious, I really wish I was recording that. I was in VR too so it was completely nuts, probably the funniest thing I've encountered in Il2.

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Making useful CMs in the I-16 is certainly difficult, the P-40 is really the plane to use on map#1 since its bloody fast and the E-7 chokes at altitude aswell and the MC-202 can only kill planes by choking them with too many meatballs...

I've used (fighter) IL-2s and Pe-2s typically in the past in order to get away from the I-16s, however a mixed group of P-40s and I-16 is quite viable. 

 

I've ran into a couple of cheeky breekys that flew the P-40 highalt but the I16s even higher to use as a bait. Making solo or low number flights with I-16 is really not that viable

 

I'd also like to see an earlier access to the LaGG-3

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Funniest moment in taw so far for me was seeing sinerox fly Russian for 30 minutes, 

Get schooled in a dogfight and then say 

'Wow the 109 has a lot of leeway against the i16 doesn't it ' 

Only just noticed this now ?? Lol 😂

4 hours ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

 

True, but it does seem that Red is a bit gun shy about risking their plane set.  I was feeling lousy yesterday so I didn't fly, but I did check the TAW map occasionally.  I saw a few times when a mass attack - even if it cost some players their plane set, could have totally changed Red's current position, but nobody did.  Sorry for being an "easy chair general" about this.  Call me when Map #2 starts...

i disagree. 

Map one for me is when no fcks are given . I'm already at a distinct disadvantage in aircraft as red, i'm generally outnumbered, its the start of the campaign and the axis should win the first map hands down unless they really clam it. So based on that i just go balls deep.

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31 minutes ago, =IL2AU=chappyj said:

 

i disagree. 

Map one for me is when no fcks are given . I'm already at a distinct disadvantage in aircraft as red, i'm generally outnumbered, its the start of the campaign and the axis should win the first map hands down unless they really clam it. So based on that i just go balls deep.

 

And I have to disagree with you.  Axis was in process of, as you have said, "clamming it".  Their front line was stalled and a decisive full-power strike and follow-up pressure to 100% destroy Sychevka airfield could have left Allies holding 2 functional depots and 1 destroyed depot in a 'repair' state for a total of 3 once Ramene Depot was restored.  Instead Allies destroyed Sychevka depot 100% and perpetuated the stalemate, leaving attrition to be the deciding factor. 

 

I agree the plane set is a bit poor, but I assure you assuming - by players upset with plane options - from the first minute of the map that it was an automatic loss and should be handled as such, made it so. 

For fcks sake, myself and a handful of pilots using mostly I-16s, Pe-2s and IL-2s were able to stall the Axis in times where the numbers were 3 or even 4 to 1.  So, I still do stick by my stance that lack of good strategy is why Red has very little chance left of turning map #1 back to their favor.

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1 hour ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

 

And I have to disagree with you.  Axis was in process of, as you have said, "clamming it".  Their front line was stalled and a decisive full-power strike and follow-up pressure to 100% destroy Sychevka airfield could have left Allies holding 2 functional depots and 1 destroyed depot in a 'repair' state for a total of 3 once Ramene Depot was restored.  Instead Allies destroyed Sychevka depot 100% and perpetuated the stalemate, leaving attrition to be the deciding factor. 

 

I agree the plane set is a bit poor, but I assure you assuming - by players upset with plane options - from the first minute of the map that it was an automatic loss and should be handled as such, made it so. 

For fcks sake, myself and a handful of pilots using mostly I-16s, Pe-2s and IL-2s were able to stall the Axis in times where the numbers were 3 or even 4 to 1.  So, I still do stick by my stance that lack of good strategy is why Red has very little chance left of turning map #1 back to their favor.

You of course completely ignore the fact that on attrition alone they will win the first map and generally do 

You're talking about one day and one objective as if it would somehow turn the tide

I think you misunderstand my pov btw. When I say no fcks given I meant I don't care about losses so I just go for kills and objectives 

 

 Sorry buddy ur over thinking it 

😎

Edited by =IL2AU=chappyj

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6 minutes ago, =IL2AU=chappyj said:

You of course completely ignore the fact that on attrition alone they will win the first map and generally do 

You're talking about one day and one objective as if it would somehow turn the tide . Sorry buddy ur over thinking it 

😎

I stand corrected. Apparently, a fatal outcome for Red is purpose-built into TAW map #1.  I'm going to assume that it can be extrapolated from that information that any map where Red doesn't have an on-par or better plane set or on-par or better supply numbers (a.k.a. almost all maps) that Axis victory is built in.  If that's the case, I guess I'll go back to servers that host single-match maps.  Good luck wasting your time just to lose the campaign, buddy. 

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Gents,

 

It's only a game!

Chill out and just enjoy another 7 odd maps of pushing and pulling.

 

Edited by Haza

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1 hour ago, Haza said:

Gents,

 

It's only a game!

 

 

An unbalanced one where there is little incentive to fly as red. Give me at least extra planes as a "Thank you for being your target" lol

Edited by SCG_Riksen
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3 minutes ago, Haza said:

Gents,

 

It's only a game!

Chill out and just enjoy another 7 odd maps of pushing and pulling.

 

 

Unless you’re flying VVS.  Then it’s 7 more maps of crashing and burning.  I logged into TAW a few times when I coulbn’t get into WoL.  I left as soon as I saw how stacked it was.

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9 hours ago, [TWB]Sketch said:

 

Of the top 16 pilots (based on air kills), all but 3 are German. These 13 German pilots have 274 Russian air kills, all by themselves. (In comparison, the top 13 Russian pilots have 118 German air kills.... almost a 3:1 ratio.) So, yes; Red team is getting shot down more often.

 

I was mostly thinking about how survivable Il-2 and especially Pe-2 is in this planeset(I wouldnt be surprised if Pe-2 has K/D above 1). But they must be losing horrific numbers of I-16...

Edited by LeLv76_Erkki

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After lot of red victories, campaign suffers lot of "mods".

 

Like i read above... first map must win by blues, on last campaign they win first map in 24/48 h, current campaign we are on 5th day and , of course red will lost map, but we try to defend very well.  I think this edition have better quorums and i see more balanced.

 

Better is dont care about victory and only try to do your best.

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2 hours ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

 

I was mostly thinking about how survivable Il-2 and especially Pe-2 is in this planeset(I wouldnt be surprised if Pe-2 has K/D above 1). But they must be losing horrific numbers of I-16...

 

It's probably the best map for Pe2. Very versatile and fast bomber, crazy dangerous powerful gunner. While we can barely catch them with E7, and need to shoot at quite close distance with MgFF. 

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28 minutes ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

 

It's probably the best map for Pe2. Very versatile and fast bomber, crazy dangerous powerful gunner. While we can barely catch them with E7, and need to shoot at quite close distance with MgFF. 

 

Yeah and they're now flown very boldly and aggressively. And why not, its(in this planeset) basically a fighter that has a very deadly rear gunner and can double as a level bomber.

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Imho we really dont have to discuss balance this campaign. Yes its not ideal in every situation, but this was the situation last campaign two days in:
Verhältnis.PNG

This was after three this campaign:
unknown.png

And yes we still have the advantage for blue, but it was mostly ok. No 40 vs 5 situation.

That beeng said I really would like to see a "cap" for one side. Like 50-60% of max players....
This way the server cant fill up with more blue players and groups have an incentive to switch teams. 

Edited by DerSheriff
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41 minutes ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

 

It's probably the best map for Pe2. Very versatile and fast bomber, crazy dangerous powerful gunner. While we can barely catch them with E7, and need to shoot at quite close distance with MgFF. 

 

Peshka gets blown out the sky by uber german flak, it is just stacked up against red, no matter which way you try it, and then by the time the reds start gaining any sort of upper hand its too late.

 

i think what someone suggested earlier makes sense, give reds more aircraft.

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Early PE-2 is not that dangerous, just don't attack from low 6 and you're cool.

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You know what gets blown out of the sky by flak? He 111 level bombing a depot at 5500 m. 200 kmph IAS.

 

Just now, Jizzo said:

Early PE-2 is not that dangerous, just don't attack from low 6 and you're cool.

 

Its as fast as 109 and 110. But I agree, if you cant attack it from side or ahead, and do not sit in a 190 or if there isnt someone else already taking gunner fire it, dont attack it. Not worth it. I forget that maxim all the time. :)

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10 minutes ago, SYN_Repent said:

 

Peshka gets blown out the sky by uber german flak, it is just stacked up against red, no matter which way you try it, and then by the time the reds start gaining any sort of upper hand its too late.

 

i think what someone suggested earlier makes sense, give reds more aircraft.

So, it's still just like before:

 

When the red side is winning, it's because of the pilot skills, great teamplay, not minding about stats, etc etc.

 

When the blue is winning, it's because of the server bias.

 

When does this gets fixed??? 😉

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well if the red side is winning now what are you putting it down to? i16s? the reds start to do better once the plane set improves, hence in maps 5+ there are less blues willing to play

Edited by SYN_Repent

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10 minutes ago, SYN_Repent said:

well if the red side is winning now what are you putting it down to? i16s? the reds start to do better once the plane set improves, hence in maps 5+ there are less blues willing to play

It seems to me that no matter what the setup is, winning conditions seems to be like I said. I doubt it can ever be fixed

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night maps and the variety of schedules another incentive more of this campaign 
again thanks to all who work for others to have fun

noche.png

Edited by =gRiJ=ToReRo
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1 hour ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

You know what gets blown out of the sky by flak? He 111 level bombing a depot at 5500 m. 200 kmph IAS.

You must be doing something wrong. You should be able to get about 280 kmph IAS, and enemy fighters should be your only worry.

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1 hour ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

You know what gets blown out of the sky by flak? He 111 level bombing a depot at 5500 m. 200 kmph IAS.

 

 

Its as fast as 109 and 110. But I agree, if you cant attack it from side or ahead, and do not sit in a 190 or if there isnt someone else already taking gunner fire it, dont attack it. Not worth it. I forget that maxim all the time. :)

 

I really dont know what You complain about.

 

This is a very balanced taw campaign at least on first map. I think the most balanced form all TAWS that I remember. BIG TUMB UP for the TAW admins for tuning it so well! And thanks for their hard work. Theres's no need to change anything now in my opinion .

 

 

Yeah. From what You are writing you've never flown yourself on TAW the early pe2 with that 7,62mm top gun. Early pe2 is an really easy prey. (some months ago someone  posted stats from a month of wol and the defence ratio of early pe2 was much smaller than ju88. The highest ratio had the he111h16 next was pe2-87, than ju88 and on 4 place was pe2 early on par with a40 and slightly better than he111 h6 which was last)

And as for he111 getting hit at 5500 - I was never hit over depo in he111 even at 4000m which was my usuall attack alt or over airfields as low as 3500 m in normal sunny weather and i've done it quite a lot. Meybe you was extreamly unlucky.

 

By the way the first map will be won by germans (which have now less planes lost and less pilots killed )

 

Edited by Carl_infar
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4 minutes ago, Chopper said:

You must be doing something wrong. You should be able to get about 280 kmph IAS, and enemy fighters should be your only worry.

 

Around 220-230, slight exaggeration. With internal bomb load only, or even no bomb load? We carry max load because there is no time to fly to the target twice(unlike for Pe-2). Heinkel's low speed really hampers it. Carrying internal load alone might help, but then you only get max 4 hits per target per 2 hour cycle...

 

13 minutes ago, Carl_infar said:

 

I really dont know what You complain about.

 

This is a very balanced taw campaign at least on first map. I think the most balanced form all TAWS that I remember. BIG TUMB UP for the TAW admins for tuning it so well! And thanks for their hard work. Theres's no need to change anything now in my opinion .

 

 

Yeah. From what You are writing you've never flown yourself on TAW the early pe2 with that 7,62mm top gun. Early pe2 is an really easy prey. (some months ago someone  posted stats from a month of wol and the defence ratio of early pe2 was much smaller than ju88. The highest ratio had the he111h16 next was pe2-87, than ju88 and on 4 place was pe2 early on par with a40 and slightly better than he111 h6 which was last)

And as for he111 getting hit at 5500 - I was never hit over depo in he111 even at 4000m which was my usuall attack alt or over airfields as low as 3500 m in normal sunny weather and i've done it quite a lot. Meybe you was extreamly unlucky.

 

By the way the first map will be won by germans (which have now less planes lost and less pilots killed )

 

 

 

I dont complain. I replied to claims of Pe-2 is not being dangerous and german flak being uber. I think asymmetric sides can be still balanced and great fun, ie. sides need to not have matching capabilities in all areas. He 111 or Ju 88 will never be as good as Peshka(survivability or versatility wise), but I-16 is trash for a fighter. Pe-2s main strength is the sheer speed, without bombs up high its about as fast as 109 E(combat power) and down low only slightly slower. It takes ages to catch one and then you spend time in gunner fire. Often in enemy airspace. I was yesterday dewinged by either the top or side gunner when booming past in a Macchi.

 

On the level bombing thing, we have now lost around 10 heinkels to flak over the depot and always bombed minimum 5000 meters. Oke managed to achieve 133 gk streak but in the end flak got him too before he got to even release bombs on that run. We feel flak might be slightly heavier than before, and possibly the nearby airfield's flak has range to shoot over the depot. Theres LOTS of flak puffs and the fire feels very accurate. Unfortunately that is not the case for Lukovnikovo depot, Peshkas attack it with impunity at low alt once its own flak was destroyed.

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32 minutes ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

Around 220-230, slight exaggeration. With internal bomb load only, or even no bomb load?

280kph with two 1000kg bombs. Takeoff with about 30% fuel.

 

220-230 is the speed I use for climb, you shold be done with climbing well before you reach the target area. It will take a minute or two of level flight to reach 280 kph. Remember to reduce the radiators opening some when you are done climbing.

 

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1 hour ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

 

 

On the level bombing thing, we have now lost around 10 heinkels to flak over the depot and always bombed minimum 5000 meters. Oke managed to achieve 133 gk streak but in the end flak got him too before he got to even release bombs on that run. We feel flak might be slightly heavier than before, and possibly the nearby airfield's flak has range to shoot over the depot. Theres LOTS of flak puffs and the fire feels very accurate. Unfortunately that is not the case for Lukovnikovo depot, Peshkas attack it with impunity at low alt once its own flak was destroyed.

Do You attack in formation? If Yes meybe You should loosen it up over the depo and than tighten when you leave the AAA area

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1 minute ago, Carl_infar said:

Do You attack in formation? If Yes meybe You should loosen it up over the depo and than tighten when you leave the AAA area

 

Not really, cant use tight formation where gunners would have overlapping fields of fire because bombers then cant safely aim individually. Flak tends to focus on the first bomber and the second and third only get a volley or two when they exit the area. I have recorded some bomb runs if anyone wants to do comparison with what they experience. How long does destroyed flak stay dead?

 

29 minutes ago, Chopper said:

280kph with two 1000kg bombs. Takeoff with about 30% fuel.

 

220-230 is the speed I use for climb, you shold be done with climbing well before you reach the target area. It will take a minute or two of level flight to reach 280 kph. Remember to reduce the radiators opening some when you are done climbing.

 

At the moment I dont fly level bombers myself. Our bombers need escorts...

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For me the times I have played TAW the first map was always the most fun, unless it is stacked of course. I think there is something nice about allowing weaker planes to fight against stronger ones. It is fun to run into a swarm of I-16s and suddenly realize you missed one of them, and then down you go. Just as it is fun to climb that thing to where it can barely run and try to sneak in on a 109. 
Then later on as the map progresses you get a bit nervous wondering if the p-40s are in the area. No doubt it is more frustrating playing red, but I guess also more rewarding when succeeding? I at least find the first map quite immersive no matter the side I have tried. 

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