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Tactical Air War

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shoulda been 12, but, you know, the engine thing...... sometimes it's nice to take a break from the madness for one map :rolleyes:

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4 hours ago, evarno said:

Question- 
Do the random flak positions still 'mark' you after you remove all the trucks and aa guns?

What does 'mark' mean?

 

 

1 hour ago, StG77_HvB said:

 

 It appears to me that on a player-by-player basis, Red can simply make repairs faster than Blue can inflict damage. 

It is not working like that anymore. Players may supply airfield by air transport up to 30% per mission but an airfield is repaired by about 10% per mission (maybe should be lower) if supply are available on it and it wasn't attacked in the previous mission. 

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41 minutes ago, =LG=Kathon said:

It is not working like that anymore. Players may supply airfield by air transport up to 30% per mission but an airfield is repaired by about 10% per mission (maybe should be lower) if supply are available on it and it wasn't attacked in the previous mission. 

Got it - thank you for the clarification.

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2 hours ago, StG77_HvB said:

 

It appears to me that on a player-by-player basis, Red can simply make repairs faster than Blue can inflict damage. I guess it comes down to having people willing to make those flights before it's too late.

Yeah it has nothing to do with Red out numbering Blue 2 to 1 for significant hours of the day.  

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilots_mission.php?mission_id=136

http://taw.stg2.de/pilots_mission.php?mission_id=127

 

 

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2 hours ago, StG77_HvB said:

shoulda been 12, but, you know, the engine thing...... sometimes it's nice to take a break from the madness for one map :rolleyes:

 

 

I can do 9 when i smoke.... after that i just get too... smokey to continue. 

1 hour ago, ChanceTheRaptor said:

Yeah it has nothing to do with Red out numbering Blue 2 to 1 for significant hours of the day.  

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilots_mission.php?mission_id=136

http://taw.stg2.de/pilots_mission.php?mission_id=127

 

 

 

New planes are in, after people get  bored of FN and p-39, it will normalize. 

Edited by CptSiddy

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What is the point of this? Neither historical nor is it really useful even as a fighter bomber like the P-40

image.thumb.png.8152cafe1a74d86afa5d68976555a5e1.png

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1 hour ago, =FEW=N3croo said:

What is the point of this? Neither historical nor is it really useful even as a fighter bomber like the P-40

image.thumb.png.8152cafe1a74d86afa5d68976555a5e1.png

 

Classic case of - we have it so we must use it. 

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Because previously people had complained that they lost aircraft they had between maps 

Alternative would be to trade in the aircraft for a +1 on a newer type perhaps 

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8 hours ago, =LG=Kathon said:

What does 'mark' mean?

Show your location to the enemy team
eg- "Enemy sighted near grid 1256.6"

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http://www.taw-server.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=32003&name=SCG_marine     the first is my sorty and the second was on the reciving end. http://www.taw-server.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=32032&name=ECV56_horacior

 

 

 

in game i was credited a kill. but when checking the score on the website nothing was scored. i then checked the second tab to see he ditched. does that not count as a kill any more? if it does count who gets the kill. if nothing no worries just seemed a bit odd to me. thanks

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3 hours ago, SCG_marine said:

http://www.taw-server.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=32003&name=SCG_marine     the first is my sorty and the second was on the reciving end. http://www.taw-server.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=32032&name=ECV56_horacior

 

 

 

in game i was credited a kill. but when checking the score on the website nothing was scored. i then checked the second tab to see he ditched. does that not count as a kill any more? if it does count who gets the kill. if nothing no worries just seemed a bit odd to me. thanks

If You will be killed or captured during the sortie you will not receive the kill.

 

and in that sortie the last person who damage the pe2 was killed (you attacked the pe2 with your friend,  both of you damaged it and Sinerox got killed - most probably he would get the kill if he lived).

 

 

Another case :

Server is stopped now :(

Edited by Carl_infar

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Question:

 

I do not know, if that is even possible to change, but the AI (rear-gunners, ground air defense gunnery) .. is shooting with modern "radar assisted" accuracy (computer good).

Is there an option for AI to be changed in skill ( expert, average, etc etc? )

 

If so, i would recommend settings it a step lower (more realistic probabilities and not 100% laser-radar accuracy).

 

Nice server !

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8 minutes ago, SPiRiTOFliGhT said:

Question:

 

I do not know, if that is even possible to change, but the AI (rear-gunners, ground air defense gunnery) .. is shooting with modern "radar assisted" accuracy (computer good).

Is there an option for AI to be changed in skill ( expert, average, etc etc? )

 

If so, i would recommend settings it a step lower (more realistic probabilities and not 100% laser-radar accuracy).

 

Nice server !

 

inb4: "You are too long on their 6"; "My Gunners never hit anything"; "Your approach is wrong" and any variety of the sort. 

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I was never behind a bomber in the TAW server getting shot at ;) .  I stayed in good and far distance (so i thought) to ground-units.. just watching them. Brrrt.. first burst wing gone.

 

I know it from others sims, that setting AI to max skill makes them behave "computerized ueber skilled" (in aiming) sometimes and thus wondered, if the same could be the case in IL-2?

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Just a quick question to my fellow TAW pilots: Too much bad weather? I don't know, it feels like whenever i wanna fly it's raining, shit weather and low cloud cover. The rendering of planes sucks, because when they're far away they render as completely white and are easy to spot (wtf) and when you get closer they become basically invisible until you're fairly close again. Add to that the fact that this weird fog appears about 500m below clouds and you have a recipe for disaster. Not to mention that 80% of fights end with: "Mh, I'm not in a perfect position, let's climb into the cloud layer and be safe forever, lulz".

I don't know, yes, we have our cute raindrops on the canopy now, yes, the changes to clouds and how the weather affects vision has become a little more fleshed out, but in all honesty, it's still a shit gameplay experience in my book and in that of quite a few guys I'm talking to about this, be it fighter pilots or bombers (who're hit the most by this I think).

 

I just wanna hear your opinions on this and if a reduction (not saying it should never happen) of occurance of this weather type percentage-wise might be a good idea.

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So I found this to help give us perspective of what typical conditions warranted suspension of flight mission:

 

WEATHER EFFECTS DURING THE BATTLE OF THE BULGE AND THE NORMANDY INVASION

 

Here is a snippet of what grounded the allied air force during the battle of the bulge.

 

 

23 to 27 Decewber 1944 . Figure 6 shows a high pressure area extending 
east-west across Northern Europe from England to Russia on 23 December. Cold 
continental polar air was flowing into the Ardennes and Ei f el with the east- 
erly winds that prevailed on the southern edge of the high. This high was 
composed of the merging of the strong Russian high and a maritime polar high 
that moved in from the Atlantic on 18 December. By the 23d the continental 
polar air had completely modified the air over the combat zone. A closed 
upper air low with its southerly trough deep into Europe, which was associated 
with the surface low near Spitzbergen, was now east of the Ardennes, causing 
decreasing cloudiness. The weather depicted by figure 7 shows only scattered 
clouds over the entire area. 

The morning of 23 December broke clear and cold. "Visibility Unlimited" was 
what the air control posts happily reported all the way from the United 
Kingdom to the foxholes on the Ardennes front. To most American soldiers, 
this was a red-letter day, because the bombers and fighter-bombers would once 
more be streaming overhead. The Bastogne air drop began with the first of the 
carriers dropping its six para-packs at 1150. On 24 December, a total of 160 
planes took part In the drop. Poor flying weather on Christmas day over 
Bastogne forced the scrubbing of virtually all flights, although 11 gliders 
did bring 1n a team of 4 surgeons and some fuel for the tanks. The biggest 
airlift day was the 26th, with 289 planes flying the Bastogne run. 1 

The dramatic change of the 23d, brought on by cold, dry winds from the east, 
stripped the German armies of their immunity to air attack, but this was not 
the whole story. Because of the winds, snow began to drift 1n the Ei f el 
hills, bringing traffic on the main supply roads west of the Rhine almost to a 
standstill. The Germans found that horsedrawn snowplows were few and ineffec- 
tive, and hastily erected snow fences were torn down by troops scrounging for 
firewood. No gravel was available, and a large number of engineer construc- 
tion battalions had been moved west for employment as Infantry. By the time 
power snowplows reached the Elfel, the American fighter-bombers were strafing 
and bombing every large vehicle that moved. 

prayercard.jpg

 

...this is just to show rain prevented air support, nothing else.

Edited by JG7_X_Man

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4 hours ago, JG4_Etherlight said:

Just a quick question to my fellow TAW pilots: Too much bad weather? I don't know, it feels like whenever i wanna fly it's raining, shit weather and low cloud cover. The rendering of planes sucks, because when they're far away they render as completely white and are easy to spot (wtf) and when you get closer they become basically invisible until you're fairly close again. Add to that the fact that this weird fog appears about 500m below clouds and you have a recipe for disaster. Not to mention that 80% of fights end with: "Mh, I'm not in a perfect position, let's climb into the cloud layer and be safe forever, lulz".

I don't know, yes, we have our cute raindrops on the canopy now, yes, the changes to clouds and how the weather affects vision has become a little more fleshed out, but in all honesty, it's still a shit gameplay experience in my book and in that of quite a few guys I'm talking to about this, be it fighter pilots or bombers (who're hit the most by this I think).

 

I just wanna hear your opinions on this and if a reduction (not saying it should never happen) of occurance of this weather type percentage-wise might be a good idea.

 

Having flown quite much this campaign i encountered overcast weather only in something like 3 missions (2h map rotations) so for me its far too much perfect weather and not enough overcast.

And the bombers benefit most form overcast weather :

1) the aaa skill is reduced

2) you can easyly evade fighters

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Carl_infar said:

 

Having flown quite much this campaign i encountered overcast weather only in something like 3 missions (2h map rotations) so for me its far too much perfect weather and not enough overcast.

And the bombers benefit most form overcast weather :

1) the aaa skill is reduced

2) you can easyly evade fighters

 

 

 

 I think the argument is more along the lines of flying in bad weather isn't realistic because if you can't find your enemy, you can't kill your enemy. So you are just wasting fuel and possible and aircraft and worst than that - a life.

 

More so than the pros for it's advantages. However, in a game we have the easy of knowing where our ground targets is on a map. If we were given general location - true fog of war, it would be more apparent.

 

 

Edited by JG7_X_Man

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5 hours ago, JG7_X_Man said:

So I found this to help give us perspective of what typical conditions warranted suspension of flight mission:

 

WEATHER EFFECTS DURING THE BATTLE OF THE BULGE AND THE NORMANDY INVASION

 

Here is a snippet of what grounded the allied air force during the battle of the bulge.

 

 


23 to 27 Decewber 1944 . Figure 6 shows a high pressure area extending 
east-west across Northern Europe from England to Russia on 23 December. Cold 
continental polar air was flowing into the Ardennes and Ei f el with the east- 
erly winds that prevailed on the southern edge of the high. This high was 
composed of the merging of the strong Russian high and a maritime polar high 
that moved in from the Atlantic on 18 December. By the 23d the continental 
polar air had completely modified the air over the combat zone. A closed 
upper air low with its southerly trough deep into Europe, which was associated 
with the surface low near Spitzbergen, was now east of the Ardennes, causing 
decreasing cloudiness. The weather depicted by figure 7 shows only scattered 
clouds over the entire area. 

The morning of 23 December broke clear and cold. "Visibility Unlimited" was 
what the air control posts happily reported all the way from the United 
Kingdom to the foxholes on the Ardennes front. To most American soldiers, 
this was a red-letter day, because the bombers and fighter-bombers would once 
more be streaming overhead. The Bastogne air drop began with the first of the 
carriers dropping its six para-packs at 1150. On 24 December, a total of 160 
planes took part In the drop. Poor flying weather on Christmas day over 
Bastogne forced the scrubbing of virtually all flights, although 11 gliders 
did bring 1n a team of 4 surgeons and some fuel for the tanks. The biggest 
airlift day was the 26th, with 289 planes flying the Bastogne run. 1 

The dramatic change of the 23d, brought on by cold, dry winds from the east, 
stripped the German armies of their immunity to air attack, but this was not 
the whole story. Because of the winds, snow began to drift 1n the Ei f el 
hills, bringing traffic on the main supply roads west of the Rhine almost to a 
standstill. The Germans found that horsedrawn snowplows were few and ineffec- 
tive, and hastily erected snow fences were torn down by troops scrounging for 
firewood. No gravel was available, and a large number of engineer construc- 
tion battalions had been moved west for employment as Infantry. By the time 
power snowplows reached the Elfel, the American fighter-bombers were strafing 
and bombing every large vehicle that moved. 

prayercard.jpg

 

...this is just to show rain prevented air support, nothing else.

Not rain but very low cloud base and visibility which comes together with heavy rain 

 

On taw during overcast weather we have neither of that cloud base ~2000m/6000ft and visibility well over 8km an light rain

1 hour ago, JG7_X_Man said:

 

 I think the argument is more along the lines of flying in bad weather isn't realistic because if you can't find your enemy, you can't kill your enemy. So you are just wasting fuel and possible and aircraft and worst than that - a life.

 

More so than the pros for it's advantages. However, in a game we have the easy of knowing where our ground targets is on a map. If we were given general location - true fog of war, it would be more apparent.

 

 

As I wrote above the overcast weather we have in TAW is not real bad weather and the visibility is very decent, but it makes possible for bombers to escape up into the clouds

 

Anyway its funny to see all the time the blue players complainig...

Edited by Carl_infar

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2 hours ago, JG7_X_Man said:

 

 I think the argument is more along the lines of flying in bad weather isn't realistic because if you can't find your enemy, you can't kill your enemy. So you are just wasting fuel and possible and aircraft and worst than that - a life.

 

More so than the pros for it's advantages. However, in a game we have the easy of knowing where our ground targets is on a map. If we were given general location - true fog of war, it would be more apparent.

 

 

 

 

Well, what would be realistic is that it's an apocalyptic war to end all wars that's consuming your countrymen(Axis or Soviet) by the million and you'll take your bit of rain and cloud and be grateful that you aren't dead already.  As a 100% ground attacker I'm happy as a clam any time it's raining or snowing because it decreases the AA effectiveness and I know the fighters have a low tolerance for adverse conditions, generally.  Maybe 5% of my sorties this campaign have been in rain or snow.

 

And Carl is right, those weather conditions on TAW aren't bad at all.  Very high cloud base, far visibility and not very turbulent.

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1 hour ago, Carl_infar said:

Not rain but very low cloud base and visibility which comes together with heavy rain 

 

On taw during overcast weather we have neither of that cloud base ~2000m/6000ft and visibility well over 8km an light rain

As I wrote above the overcast weather we have in TAW is not real bad weather and the visibility is very decent, but it makes possible for bombers to escape up into the clouds

 

Anyway its funny to see all the time the blue players complainig...

 

As I explained, It's not about the visibility issue for me, you can even spot better in rain/heavy cloud at a distance, because of the white rendering of planes. The ones who're profiting are ground attackers, not bombers (I meant level bombing at a decent altitude). So for me it is more about the technical inconsistency of the implementation and the fact that fights generally do not tend to happen (in my personal experience, that is why I asked about other people's opinions and didn't demand things), because of the permanent ability to just go into the layer and be gone forever. I would say the same thing were I flying VVS, which I often do, since I alternated between the sides each campaign. Why you even try to make this general observation and issue about "Hahaha, Blue side this, Hahaha Red side that" is beyond me.

 

Like I said, this is a personal experience thing. Maybe I was just unlucky with my times to join and it's not an issue, but again - that's why I discuss it.

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I was curious, I noticed that the Axis pilots have just one Hs 129B, why is that?  Is it because with the stuka and 110(and jabo fighters) it adds up to a lot of attack aircraft?

 

I only ask because it seems a bit rough to only have one of such a vulnerable aircraft.

Edited by 7.GShAP/Silas

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2 hours ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

only ask because it seems a bit rough to only have one of such a vulnerable aircraft

 

Obviously this was lost in translation, I hope.  Vulnerable means: easy to physical or emotional attack, harm and destroy.

So you want TAW admin to give BLUE more crap aircraft to fly?

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1 hour ago, JG7_X_Man said:

 

Obviously this was lost in translation, I hope.  Vulnerable means: easy to physical or emotional attack, harm and destroy.

So you want TAW admin to give BLUE more crap aircraft to fly?

 

 

The Hs 129 is the Axis' dedicated cannon-armed ground attack aircraft.  It's a dangerous business anywhere, but on TAW the AA can really be truly brutal to say nothing of the fighters.  You can be good, but every sortie is a roll of the dice to some degree.  In these types of aircraft you have to make yourself vulnerable in order to do your job.  Casualties are inevitable.

 

So imagine I fly the Hs 129 in a squad.  If any of us lose our one Hs-129, even ditch, then he has to do supply flights or take another type immediately(if you take another attacker and lose it, that's six flights for your 129) .  But on the VVS we have 3 IL-2s and so don't suffer that problem.  Anyway, if the Hs 129 is so crap then no harm in giving pilots one more, no?  Though it's obvious that one Hs 129 flown with a purpose is worth a million 109s flying to Zanzibar.  Gives you something to cover, at least.

Edited by 7.GShAP/Silas
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So I was just rammed by another 109 who then continued to push into me, so then shot him with a flare gun and killed him... And now I cannot spawn... Am I banned or something? 

Edited by SCG_Sinerox
typo

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19 hours ago, Carl_infar said:

 

Having flown quite much this campaign i encountered overcast weather only in something like 3 missions (2h map rotations) so for me its far too much perfect weather and not enough overcast.

And the bombers benefit most form overcast weather :

1) the aaa skill is reduced

2) you can easyly evade fighters

 

 

 

Yes and no. I do agree we get way too much good weather. Overcast can work both ways - yeah it'll give us somewhere to hide but it'll also blanket the target and unfortunately we don't have proper bombardier/navigators who can estimate when to drop based on time/distance/etc. That'll require us to go below the overcast to drop which makes us easy pickings for the deadly AAA. 

 

Having said that, i dropped a load over an enemy airbase on a mission yesterday, then got attacked by 2 BF109s, one which hit my left wing/engine (damaged but not significant). I thought I was done for until I spotted a layer of cloud at 3000m (my bombing alt) so I managed to hide in there - went 90 deg left as soon as i got in there...eventually lost both fighters. Landed and just before stopping my landing gear gave way. Weird thing is, the TAW website listed me as shot down and then ditched. 

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=35208&name=[ASOR]Pharoah

 

How can i be shot down and then ditched at my own airfield at the same time? Plus I don't think i got any xp for the flight. 

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7 hours ago, [ASOR]Pharoah said:

 

Yes and no. I do agree we get way too much good weather. Overcast can work both ways - yeah it'll give us somewhere to hide but it'll also blanket the target and unfortunately we don't have proper bombardier/navigators who can estimate when to drop based on time/distance/etc. That'll require us to go below the overcast to drop which makes us easy pickings for the deadly AAA. 

 

Having said that, i dropped a load over an enemy airbase on a mission yesterday, then got attacked by 2 BF109s, one which hit my left wing/engine (damaged but not significant). I thought I was done for until I spotted a layer of cloud at 3000m (my bombing alt) so I managed to hide in there - went 90 deg left as soon as i got in there...eventually lost both fighters. Landed and just before stopping my landing gear gave way. Weird thing is, the TAW website listed me as shot down and then ditched. 

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=35208&name=[ASOR]Pharoah

 

How can i be shot down and then ditched at my own airfield at the same time? Plus I don't think i got any xp for the flight. 

You were ditched because (I assume) you struck your props when the gear collapsed
It counted as shot down because he damaged you prior to that

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You can always ground yourself if you see it is overcast, no one is forcing you to fly ;)

 

Also

I've changed my mind on the Pe-2, its gunners are utterly ridiculous and far outclass any other planes defenses in the game.

 

Ive seen whole squads damaged by a single Pe-2, and before you say "dont sit on his six" they weren't, they were high speed slashing attacks from all angles and nearly every fighter leaves smoking.

 

Seems the best way to deal with a pe2 is if the first guy sacrifices his life by ramming it, saving the rest from certain damage.

Edited by -DFA-Retrofly
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23 minutes ago, -DFA-Retrofly said:

 

 

Also

I've changed my mind on the Pe-2, its gunners are utterly ridiculous and far outclass any other planes defenses in the game.

 

Ive seen whole squads damaged by a single Pe-2, and before you say "dont sit on his six" they weren't, they were high speed slashing attacks from all angles and nearly every fighter leaves smoking.

 

Seems the best way to deal with a pe2 is if the first guy sacrifices his life by ramming it, saving the rest from certain damage.

 

 

I've seen Henchels set 3 yaks ablaze this map too, anecdotes facts make not. 

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1 hour ago, Frakkas said:

overcast so german fighters cannot do anything .... pfff, an other server where russians win all the time

 

 

Yeah, in the war German fighters never fought below clouds.  The Germans also never fought during nap time, tea time or on holidays.

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1 hour ago, -DFA-Retrofly said:

You can always ground yourself if you see it is overcast, no one is forcing you to fly ;)

 

Also

I've changed my mind on the Pe-2, its gunners are utterly ridiculous and far outclass any other planes defenses in the game.

 

Ive seen whole squads damaged by a single Pe-2, and before you say "dont sit on his six" they weren't, they were high speed slashing attacks from all angles and nearly every fighter leaves smoking.

 

Seems the best way to deal with a pe2 is if the first guy sacrifices his life by ramming it, saving the rest from certain damage.

 

As i wrote before : apart form not sitting on 6,

 during your slashing attack dont fly nearer as 100m to any bomber (german or russian) or you'll be hit each time (unless you are positive that the gunners are dead). Shoot form the distance and You will be fine.

 

Some time ago sombody post the results form wol where the biggets kill % for bombers had the HE111 H16 next was pe2 87 (both have that high cal. mgs which can take you down in a single burst).

 

Anyway I was attacked 2wice in my pe2 by fighters during current campaign and each time they were comming form direct 6. I'm always like in ROF shooting myself from gunner positions and I didnt even have to move the gun more than 2 inches just I pressed the trigger while they flew in straight line into the muzzle...

 

 

Edited by Carl_infar

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24 minutes ago, Carl_infar said:

Some time ago sombody post the results form wol where the biggets kill % for bombers had the HE111 H16 next was pe2 87 (both have that high cal. mgs which can take you down in a single burst).

 

The He-111 should have good gunners and defenses, as its literally the only defense a level bomber has. The Pe2 has speed, maneuverability and forward facing guns. that combination makes it a a beast of a plane.

1 hour ago, CptSiddy said:

 

 

I've seen Henchels set 3 yaks ablaze this map too, anecdotes facts make not. 

Its not fact, its opinion.

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I think we have established that TAW and IL2 in general is aiming for historical accuracy and not balance in a common gaming sense.

 

That being said i don't understand how people expect to have good survival chances when flying a Bomber/heavy attacker alone. As it is common knowledge, a Bomber out of formation (i.e. alone) was a very easy target. There was a reason why they were flying in formation and with escort fighters and it makes sense that when one of those things were not given, losses were very high.

So yes, Ai gunners are overperforming in general. Yet they are still incredibly random and there is no pattern on how they perform. The randomness of them however is the most frustrating thing about them.

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5 hours ago, CptSiddy said:

 

 

I've seen Henchels set 3 yaks ablaze this map too, anecdotes facts make not. 

 

Someone please find the he111 equivalent.  :)

 

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