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Tactical Air War

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2 minutes ago, kalbuth said:

You only need your ears in 109/190 to have an idea of your regime, and you double-check visually (gauges and regime numbers knowledge) from time to time. There is no need to have the regime written. That's far more truth to real, imho. In this very case, 109 regime, techno chat as implemented right now is an unneeded clutch.

 You believe every average and not-so-average pilot is able to separate from the 1 RPM to keep engine below emergency level, for example, like they are able now with the technochat warnings?

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6 minutes ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

 You believe every average and not-so-average pilot is able to separate from the 1 RPM to keep engine below emergency level, for example, like they are able now with the technochat warnings?

Hi Kemp,

i dont think so, but look at the RPM instrument and reduse ATA till you loose 100- 150 RPM and you have your 1 - 2 % works fine. No techchat needed, same goes for combat mode :biggrin:.

 

regards

 

Little_D

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2 minutes ago, 1./JG2_Little_D said:

Hi Kemp,

i dont think so, but look at the RPM instrument and reduse ATA till you loose 100- 150 RPM and you have your 1 - 2 % works fine. No techchat needed, same goes for combat mode :biggrin:.

 

regards

 

Little_D

 

The discussion is wether removing technochat gives axis extra benefit compared to VVS. I can't see that. While it is easy even for a total noob to move his throttle in axis plane to get out of "red" warning, removing technochat would run a risk of either running underpowered or cooking your engine in one minute. There are no such risks for VVS planes and really using "overheating" messages as guides for adjusting your radiators, throttle or RPM in the middle of combat does not lead to optimal performance.

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17 minutes ago, 1./JG2_Little_D said:

Hi Kemp,

i dont think so, but look at the RPM instrument and reduse ATA till you loose 100- 150 RPM and you have your 1 - 2 % works fine. No techchat needed, same goes for combat mode :biggrin:.

 

regards

 

Big Arse

You just assume everybody has a High Value Setup with Axis for everything. If you have a complete Cockpit Setup at home, having no Technochat is mostly OK, especially if your Potis and Sensors and Buttons work Flawlessly and Reliably. 

I rather spend my Money on Real Flying. And I virtually never look below my Instrument Panel, I don't look at my Throttle Lever, my Mixture or Fuel Selector or Cowl Lever unless something is very Wrong. 

I also don't look at the Gear Lever or Flap Switch, I do however confirm by looking at the Lights and Indicators. 

 

Having a Low Resolution, Visual HUD Throttle Indicator is very much what you would normally feel with your Rough Hand Position on the Throttle. The Percentages are Stupid, but just a Vague Visual Aid would be useful and not detract from the Experience. 

 

 

Only Axis Fighters draw a tiny benefit from it. Axis Bombers and Attackers have all the same Controls as VVS except Mixture. 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

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No i dont have a cockpit at home, i fly on a six year old I7 3770K with gtx 680 4GB, 16 GB Ram, Track IR Rudderpedals. Since 6 month i have Warthog system, before an X52. And for all this i need a lot of year to get the hardware together and to hold my mony. I would love to suport BoX more and to buy not in special sell or do a preorder. but i dont work for me as there is a wife and kids :biggrin:. But i also start with 30€ stick with little throttle, 1  headswitch for view , some buttons and tastatur. I also could use the stick as rudder. Still flying and fighting without techchat.

 

I think its more about the time you want to spent in this simulation. The other thing is in the beginning for me, it was 1946 you could hear the people we want more realisem in FM, DM, more complexer engine management, more realistic engine parameters etc.,  with Cliffs of Dover we got  the next level, but than more and more people start to fly with helps on. On online servers that where before without helps at all,  as so called Full Real Server. Now with BoX, that is for most people here the next level over Cliffs of Dover, even more people fly with more helps on. So whey the hell everybodey wants more realisem in FM, DM, more complexer engine management, more realistic engine parameters etc. and are than not able or not willing to learn the next level,  insteed they fly with an F-18 HuD.

Makes no sence to me, but maby i am only tol old for this shit :biggrin:.

 

I realy would love to see what would happens when we could get back the "Full Real" Servers with nothing on, no infochat, no kill infos, no GPS.

I we realy would have a empty server or if somthing different would happend as it did in 1946. When you recocnised that you are not good enouth

to fly on a Full Real Server. And this is no offens at all. I start flying with infochat on offline and killed every thing than i went on a Full Real Server and

get my ass kicked for month till i learn to fly the planes without any HuD. What happen on a server like this? There where more disziplin on the servers,

no team killing,  no cross starts or other stupid thinks. Mutch better ID etc. Why because when you spend your time to learn to fly a sim, insteed of using

F-18 HuD, you also have the time to ID right or do all the other stuff right. Simmer or gamer.

 

 

 

regards

 

Little_D

 

 

Edited by 1./JG2_Little_D
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Klaus isn't against instrument checking, but some hardware setup lacks positional feedback, I can agree with that

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1 hour ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

 

You mean that russian pilots set their radiators by technochat messages? While a bit surprising, let's assume you are right. You think optimal performance for VVS fighters come from getting their engines overheated, getting a warning, and then opening radiators extra much or take other actions to cool down everheated engine? You think it gives bigger benefit to VVS pilots than Axis being able to set their throttle just barely below emergency or combat warnings to optimize performance? I choose to disagree.

That's the whole point, IRL pilots had neither a "you're in emergency mode" or "beware high temperature" messages, the needed some other clues, sound, needles somewhere in cockpit, etc... which mean they had some degree of knowledge and some instrument checking (and that mean, out of pure combat time, in a way) that was needed. They couldn't be so precise as to know which exact percentage of max power they were on, so, since some of this information was lacking, they were simply less aggressive, unless the situation required them to take a bet and try to push the limits.

That makes us behave differently, and since the actual clue (in this case, sound and needles) ARE PRESENT in the sim, I don't see the reason for us to have that information elsewhere. And if that benefits more VVS than LW, or the opposite, SO BE IT, it was the way it was back then!

"I can't know precisely my power setting" isn't an argument, "I can't know as precisely as RL pilot could" is a far better one.

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That, too, but OTOH this setup pushes us for more realistic behavior. I agree with limits, but they are too strict atm

 

And btw some are logical. Overrevving an engine is an instant dead engine. So extreme RPM can result in catastrophic events.

 

EDIT : and we're getting wayy offtopic :P

Edited by kalbuth

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12 minutes ago, kalbuth said:

That's the whole point, IRL pilots had neither a "you're in emergency mode" or "beware high temperature" messages, the needed some other clues, sound, needles somewhere in cockpit, etc... which mean they had some degree of knowledge and some instrument checking (and that mean, out of pure combat time, in a way) that was needed. They couldn't be so precise as to know which exact percentage of max power they were on, so, since some of this information was lacking, they were simply less aggressive, unless the situation required them to take a bet and try to push the limits.

That makes us behave differently, and since the actual clue (in this case, sound and needles) ARE PRESENT in the sim, I don't see the reason for us to have that information elsewhere. And if that benefits more VVS than LW, or the opposite, SO BE IT, it was the way it was back then!

"I can't know precisely my power setting" isn't an argument, "I can't know as precisely as RL pilot could" is a far better one.

 

+1

 

10 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

And their Engines wouldn't blow up after 1 Minute of Emergency. 

 

Not at all, as an example the109G-6 i can fly on full power for about 2 - 3 min. Depents on Speed and RPM. The realy little speed loose is in a situation where i have to run is compensated over the time i can run under higher limits. Even when you cant run in a G-6 :biggrin:. But works for all the other 109 with extra power. For the time, i have the clock. If i make a mistake on RPM, speed or read the clock wrong in the heat of the fight, i kill my engine, as they did. Also you so get a little more realisem with unexpected engin damages, no more all time new engines, but this would be one of the last positive points for no HuD at all.

 

If you still need some info about that you move your throttle, your flaps, coolers etc, because you dont have a throttle or some other hardware missing ok, nothing more. Even when you dont need it at all.

 

regards

 

Little_D

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The one WWII Pilot ZG26 had the Opportunity to Speak to never gave a [edited] about the Limits. He used the Power needed whenever he needed it and once the Threat was eliminated would go back to normal. Neither did the German Pilots. And this was Part and Parcel of flying in a War. 

 

So until the ingame RNG is replaced with a Realistic Solution I will keep the Technochat. 

 

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On 16.3.2018 at 1:39 PM, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

 

It would be good if you could choose what to show and what to hide. For  example there are controls like radiators that  don't have status indicators in the planes and are controlled by rotating wheels, its not possible to determine how much you are opening them if you dont have them in an axis, while the real pilots did as they operated them manually.

 

You could use the techchat to finde out how many clicks are how many % or 1 sec. is x%. As you over the techchat know what % you need to hold as an example the temps at cruse, combat or emergancy settings for the coolers. You know over time or clicks on button/tastatur the % you give as imput. Also you need over the hole flight all the time your current and latest settings in your mind. The only thing is to learn it, spend the time and get used to it, than you will never fly different again. is the same as mouse or button view vs Track IR or Track IR VS VR. You need to learn it and get used to it.

 

This is how i fly the E-7 with the rads manual without looking at the winginfo, takes to mutch time to zoom in, in a fight, maby this explane it better

What i know is how the watercooler handle loocks and at witch position it is in open, close, climb, cruse, combat, emergance and emergancy run

settings to hold the water cool. I know how many turns the handle need to get in the positions. But i kno also how many klicks the settings have

between each other. So as i know that at start my coolers are open or close depents on weather. i know exactly how many klicks i need to come to

climb settings or all the other settings. So no problem there have the right cooler settings for all sitations. Looking at the handle is only a quick chek

if needed, but not realy nessesary. Same goes for flaps and trim and for all planes.

 

regards

 

Little_D

Edited by 1./JG2_Little_D

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So I think this debate is running in circles.  Yes, it's doable, and not ideal for all manipulative controls in cockpit.  Got it.

 

The focus should remain, no matter how YOU as an individual feel, what will happen to the disparity in numbers.  Because it's super duper if you're an axis pilot and cool with this idea.  But you're running two risks in this change (a change that I individually support and think would be fun as a VVS pilot):

 

1) You drive VVS pilots, who don't want to take the time to learn every nanometer of each plane away.

 

2) Those that enjoy TAW but only fly VVS to even sides a bit will find the benefit is now outweighed by the "unnecessary" effort required, and switch to Axis.

 

Again, it doesn't matter what IS, only the PERCEPTION.  And whether you like it or not, the PERCEPTION that VVS is harder to fly is there.  And it at least needs to be considered.

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51 minutes ago, =BES=Coyote-66 said:

1) You drive VVS pilots, who don't want to take the time to learn every nanometer of each plane away.

 

Maybe I am the only one, but I don't really see how having or removing technochat affects learning the VVS planes that much. Even now you have to learn how they work and it is not like you just accidentally end up in a boost mode in Mig-3 for example. You have to take very concious action to enter boost mode, so the boost message should not come as a surprise like "oops, throttle in this position brings a warning, let's throttle back". The only "oops" warning that comes to mind for VVS fighters is the overheating and I think that most VVS pilots that fly current "realistic" level have already figured out that monitoring temps is an important matter and generally keep an eye on temps before these warnings already now.

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2 hours ago, =BES=Coyote-66 said:

So I think this debate is running in circles.  Yes, it's doable, and not ideal for all manipulative controls in cockpit.  Got it.

 

The focus should remain, no matter how YOU as an individual feel, what will happen to the disparity in numbers.  Because it's super duper if you're an axis pilot and cool with this idea.  But you're running two risks in this change (a change that I individually support and think would be fun as a VVS pilot):

 

1) You drive VVS pilots, who don't want to take the time to learn every nanometer of each plane away.

 

2) Those that enjoy TAW but only fly VVS to even sides a bit will find the benefit is now outweighed by the "unnecessary" effort required, and switch to Axis.

 

Again, it doesn't matter what IS, only the PERCEPTION.  And whether you like it or not, the PERCEPTION that VVS is harder to fly is there.  And it at least needs to be considered.

 

What extra effort is involved when flying a plane in this game, from either side, without techno chat? All that is being asked of people when techno chat is turned off is to look to a different place for the same information. I'm sure we could find all kinds of people who rely more on the gauges in the dash than on the techno chat to manage even the most complex engines in the game, the P-39 and 40 for example, or the Duck and Stuka on the German side. I know I look down for that info in those planes more than I look to techno chat.

 

And why would you conclude that people who feel it is overly burdensome to learn how to look at a dial on a board would switch to the German side? The problem of having to look at dials will exist on that side too. Why would it make sense to anyone to switch sides to avoid a problem when the problem is still there after the switch? If anything this change should simply drive people, from both sides, from the server; if indeed it has any negative effect at all. I would think that there will be no significant change in player numbers due to this, for one simple reason: players on this server have been asked to do a harder task already and have stayed. On TAW you have to navigate by compass and time/speed or by observing the terrain around you and comparing it to the map. Do you really think that people who put up with this "unnecessary" effort to simply figure out where they are will shrink from the task of looking down and seeing where a pointer points and comparing that with numbers out of a tech manual they are given with every plane? I don't think that will be an issue.

Edited by Disarray
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2 hours ago, =BES=Coyote-66 said:

So I think this debate is running in circles.  Yes, it's doable, and not ideal for all manipulative controls in cockpit.  Got it.

 

The focus should remain, no matter how YOU as an individual feel, what will happen to the disparity in numbers.  Because it's super duper if you're an axis pilot and cool with this idea.  But you're running two risks in this change (a change that I individually support and think would be fun as a VVS pilot):

 

1) You drive VVS pilots, who don't want to take the time to learn every nanometer of each plane away.

 

2) Those that enjoy TAW but only fly VVS to even sides a bit will find the benefit is now outweighed by the "unnecessary" effort required, and switch to Axis.

 

Again, it doesn't matter what IS, only the PERCEPTION.  And whether you like it or not, the PERCEPTION that VVS is harder to fly is there.  And it at least needs to be considered.

 

 

This, absolutely.

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Gents,

 

I relish the opportunity and congratulate the TAW server for trying to take this sim to the next level. I have been playing in WOL with techno off to try and better understand what is happening with the instruments, otherwise the developers perhaps should not have even bothered trying to make a cockpit as we could have all used the techno chat. However, having a server that turns it off for all, I believe is leveling the playing field for all players and allowing us an opportunity to now test not only navigating and dog-fighting skills, but more importantly playing (flying) the aircraft, as being able to fly the aircraft is the most important element of flight.  I use to play CLOD, and most players were able to manage without GPS, techno chat, therefore, lets give it a go here in TAW!

That said, allowing a whole campaign having no techno chat, could be used to gauge players reactions to know if it should become the norm on subsequent campaigns, therefore, nobody should be afraid to embrace this.

 

Regards

 

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On 3/15/2018 at 6:22 PM, =LG=Padre said:

I assure you that we plan to remove technochat as soon as possible. I do not know if this possibility exists after new patch releas, but if so, the new campaigns will be without technochat. 

 

I would pay just for this........

 

Jason...?

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just drop a certain topic in here, and people start tearing each other apart about it. discussions on teh interwebs..  it's just ridiculous :lol:
"TECHNOCHAT!!" looks like we found ourselves a worthy successor to all those legendary topics like chute killing, peshka snipers or overpowered AA. keep it going guys, it just never gets boring.

Edited by [I./JG62]Knipser

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I rather fly TAW without technochat and getting chutekilled than flying on goddamn WOL.

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Would be nice if the devs made a “limited” technochat option. There’s a few planes that don’t have indicators for where things are set.

 

Next TAW campaign, is there plans to go back to warmed up starts? Cold starts only seemed to keep bombers on the ground longer, fighters could still pretty much take right off. Is there really need to make bombing more tedious on TAW?

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22 minutes ago, HenHawk said:

 

 

Next TAW campaign, is there plans to go back to warmed up starts? Cold starts only seemed to keep bombers on the ground longer, fighters could still pretty much take right off. Is there really need to make bombing more tedious on TAW?

Operationally I don't really have a problem with waiting, but the spawn issue was pretty bad a few times for me last campaign.  I was unable to spawn due to sitting planes, to the point I had to scrap a mission and take off from another location.  

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I liked the cold starts. I don't know if it was related but I didn't see many if any people neglecting to taxi to runway. For me that in itself was very good to see.

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The cold start are wrong i am sorry to say. Cold start proceedure and different then the normal engine start procedure IRL. Because of the way the autostart is in BoX we can’t manually start, prime, crank, delay the mixture, ETC. let alone the fake power up to quick heat that people where simply doing.  I am in the rank of the guys that if you do something do it right, you want to have it closer then the real thing. ALL front line fighters where kept warmed buy the crew chef. The cold engine really kill the immersion and it is bugged.

Edited by ATAG_dB
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44 minutes ago, =FEW=Herne said:

I liked the cold starts. I don't know if it was related but I didn't see many if any people neglecting to taxi to runway. For me that in itself was very good to see.

 

Could just start enforcing the rule that says you’re supposed to use runways/taxiways properly.

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Reply to a slightly older post, sorry:

 

On 21.3.2018 at 1:48 PM, 56RAF_Roblex said:

 

What we certainly don't need in a 'realistic' server is things like 'Adjust your Mixture' & 'Slow down to 200kts and lower your flaps' :-)           On a related note,  I noticed that with the P-39 there is a very definite audible change in engine note when you  change from Continuous Mode to Combat Mode.  I cannot say I have noticed that on any other aircraft.

 

 

That's not Technochat, that's a separate Help thing that can be toggled independently.

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4 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

 

 

And what you whant to tell us with this?

I dont need to look all the time on the instruments as in the video it is about 20% +- 5% maby less and still can fly all fu... planes i have without techchat.

Of course the plane you fly most, you can take into battle. And that can do allother pilots that can fly without techchat. Looks more like you cant do it and want to avoid it. Or you dont have the time to learn it or the will to do it. Also the argument dont have the hardware i don take, as i and many others also start in the beginning with smal hardware for flying. But this is also the difference between a simmer and a germer. Normlay the simmer has everything he need to fly a flightsim as realistic as possible and for this you need Throttle, stick, pedals, Track IR, etc. Of course is a expensive hardware better than a cheap one, but still even with a cheap hardware you dont need techchat. Also fo the sence you are missing because you dont feel how many time you sturn a weel ( trim ) in the plane. For this you can count the second or the clicks you need to get the right settings. Again a simmer will find a way, a gamer use techchat. If you dont have the time to do this, because of real life is it absolutly ok, but than maby is a full real server or a server that trys to make it as realistic as possible not the playground for you or others. Sorry when it sounds hard, but this thrue, this starts with 1946, over CoD to BoX, as flightsimming is a time-consuming hobby.

 

Our old standart in JG2 was or better to say it still is if you cant spend up to 8 hours or more in a week with the flight sim you cant learn all you need to fly and fight in full real.

 

Regards

 

Little_D

 

Edited by 1./JG2_Little_D

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On 3/21/2018 at 4:37 PM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

If you removed technochat, even less people would fly the VVS.

 

Those people who don't want nor use the technochat and like to use the instruments - those can do that already. For example: I am flying without HUD, I am using solely the cockpit instruments, even when flying VVS (I am one of the few West-Germans who can read kyrillic).

 

 

Nah, man, its is easy to fly VVS planes without techno when u get used to watch your temps. 

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On TC subject, since some over here believe that removing then is the real thing.

 

Ask yourself this

How did a Spitfire pilot knew how much is radiator where open? 

How about on the P40?

Bf109?

 

Pilots and I kinda know what I am talking about, we're also using their ears, our butt or fingers. We ear sound, vibration and feel. 1 crank up, one pull knee height, 1 finger length from the bottom ETC. 

Do you think a pilot with someone on it's 6 was really putting it's head down to know if he closed it's cowl flap enough?

 

You want to remove the TC, it's ok. It's different but PLEASE spare me with the it's how it was IRL

 

This is only a game

 

 

Edited by ATAG_dB
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Just now, ATAG_dB said:

On TC subject, since some over here believe that removing then is the real thing.

 

Ask yourself this

How did a Spitfire pilot knew how much is radiator where open? 

How about on the P40?

Bf109?

 

Pilots and I kinda know what I am talking about, we're also using their ears, our butt or fingers. We ear sound, vibration and feel. 1 crank up, one pull knee height, 1 finger length from the bottom ETC. 

Do you think a pilot with someone on it's 6 was really putting it's head down to know if he closed it's cowl flap enough?

 

You want to remove the TC, it's ok. It's different but PLEASE spare me with the it's how it was IRL

 

This is only a game

 

 

 

"This is only a game"

 

Is this the same guy that was complaining about cold starts and how things are IRL?

Come on dB, you can't have it both ways when it suits you!

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20 minutes ago, Haza said:

 

"This is only a game"

 

Is this the same guy that was complaining about cold starts and how things are IRL?

Come on dB, you can't have it both ways when it suits you!

I get what dB is saying. And I get his point about a sim (without a fully built RL sim pit) failing to provide the tactile elements of RW situations. Any argument that calls for removing TC does fail to take this into consideration when taking the "in real life" stance. Just as it fails to take in the ability of the eye to flick quickly to a point of focus (say a temp gauge) without moving your whole damn head and adding zoom. 

 

TC isn't perfect and is, to a large degree it is a safety blanket in the manner in which it offers overheating warnings and mode info but removing it in order to make things more realistic in some situations actually makes it more difficult than in RL. The problem isn't with TC (or rather positional data about flaps, shutters and throttle)as a whole but its inflexible data presentation in that you get no help or too much or it. 

 

Edited by BOO

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Just now, BOO said:

I get what dB is saying. And I get his point about a sim (without a fully built RL sim pit) failing to provide the tactile elements of RW situations. Any argument that calls for removing TC does fail to take this into consideration when taking the "in real life" stance. Just as it fails to take in the ability of the eye to flick quickly to a point of focus (say a temp gauge) without moving your whole damn head and adding zoom. 

 

TC isn't perfect and is, to a large degree it is a safety blanket in the manner in which it offers overheating warnings and mode info but removing it in order to make things more realistic in some situations actually makes it more difficult than in RL. The problem isn't with TC (or rather positional data about flaps, shutters and throttle)as a whole but its inflexible data presentation in that you get no help or too much or it. 

 

 

I was teasing!

However, it appeared to work without TC in CLoD!

Hey, at least there is no Bit**** Betty, YET!!!

Edited by Haza

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27 minutes ago, Haza said:

 

I was teasing!

However, it appeared to work without TC in CLoD!

Hey, at least there is no Bit**** Betty, YET!!!

I was more agreeing dBs post than virtually squaring up to you mate ;) (you're an Aussie - squaring up to aussies is something I know better than to do!!)

 

The Clod window for engine settings I think is very good. Flexible, not to intrusive and offering the right level of information that still means a player has to do some thinking for themselves. 

 

S!

 

BOO

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6 hours ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

 

 

Nah, man, its is easy to fly VVS planes without techno when u get used to watch your temps. 

For me, yes. For you, yes. For others as well, I am sure of that. My goal is to get more people to play VVS, so we all have a better time.

 

I am referring to a lot of people I have tried to talk into flying VVS during the last TAW campaign.

 

Probably 4 in 5 said: "There's too much hassle involved in controlling VVS planes, I don't want to have to learn 4 new planes to get flying with them, I cannot read Rawsian! I may try next campaign."

 

Hence, if you further lower accessibility of the VVS' aircrafts, you'll probably get less VVS players. Unless you further soft-balance the setups by locking up some of Luftwaffe's equipment options, and giving Russian players more +1 spawns of good aircrafts each mission.

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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41 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

For me, yes. For you, yes. For others as well, I am sure of that. My goal is to get more people to play VVS, so we all have a better time.

 

I am referring to a lot of people I have tried to talk into flying VVS during the last TAW campaign.

 

Probably 4 in 5 said: "There's too much hassle involved in controlling VVS planes, I don't want to have to learn 4 new planes to get flying with them, I cannot read Rawsian! I may try next campaign."

 

Hence, if you further lower accessibility of the VVS' aircrafts, you'll probably get less VVS players. Unless you further soft-balance the setups by locking up some of Luftwaffe's equipment options, and giving Russian players more +1 spawns of good aircrafts each mission.

 

This. But I do also wonder if too much is made of the management of RPM, Mixture and Manifold Pressure too. It sounds daunting to a new player especially after the relative comfort of a  190 or 109F/G but it actually isn't so hard in most VVS aircraft.. Coming from Clod I was used to the "complex" EM but reading around the forum when I first started I was put off by how complicated it was made to sound in this game. It isn't and much of the fine theoretical (or even hypothetical) detail on settings is not relevant to the average transient situation in game played by the average player.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Haza said:

 

"This is only a game"

 

Is this the same guy that was complaining about cold starts and how things are IRL?

Come on dB, you can't have it both ways when it suits you!

You missed the point Hazza. I am all for the improvements that make it close to reality. Less so for those that are doing the opposite. The cold engine start is bugged and wrong, why should we simulate something like that? Surely not because that is the way they did it, right?

   

Edited by ATAG_dB

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9 hours ago, ATAG_dB said:

On TC subject, since some over here believe that removing then is the real thing.

 

Ask yourself this

How did a Spitfire pilot knew how much is radiator where open? 

How about on the P40?

Bf109?

 

I would say as he used his hand to move the cooler lever and knows the possition for each setup he need and remamber it. take off, climb, combat climb, fight, emergancy and landing.

Same would be for flaps, oilcooler, rpm, mix, etc.. This for all planes the same, you have standart settings for different situations of flight. No need at all to look all the time into the cockpit to know what settings you are at only for qick checks when there is time for. Or do you think in the battle of fight when it is like loose sighn losse fight they where looking on there insrtuments all the time or even in the fight?

 

Yes i have no fu.. sense of my hand in this sim, only hardware or good hardware and buttons/tastatur. But i still can know my settings and what i have to do to come do a different setting. As i do it and many others since 2009  or even longer and it works in Cliffs of Dover and even in DCS with P-5, it will easely work in BoX. How?

 

1. I know how many klicks it takes to come from a cloes water/oil cooler to an open one.

2. Also i know how many sec. it takes to come from flaps in position to combat flaps, to start pflaps, etc.

3. This works fo all systems you need to control in even more complex vvs fighters or other planes.

4. Sound (rpm settings you can heare also in all planes ) windnoise, etc.. As in real life

5. View as in real life ( you look around to estimate your position in the 3d room + g-force we dont have ) and look at the instuments to check all systems and this is mutch easyer

    than in real life, as in this game in wideview i dont even need to move my had to see all system settings or other information like speed, temps, etc. when i

    have a enemy in my sighn. ( So fly as long as possible in wideview and only for ID or fire zoom in as youn need it )

6. for the missing g-fores i combinate  point 4 and 5. and the position of my stick ( zero position to max. ) and at witch point i am in the moment.

    this all is enough information to fly the planes.

 

Of course you need to know the klicks you need or the seconds, also you should know if you have to move or push the button up or down and you need the settings you had before you

changed your settings. Also you need to know the you stick position in different speeds and fligh manovers and what it does with the plane. And mutch more, you need Experience

for this.

 

So with this klicks or seconds you simulate youre sense of your hand, as you remamber as the pilot in real life the position you set before changing them, you need only to

count the klicks or seconds to get into a different setting. So the real life pilot has his hand sense i have my klick/second cound sense. Works perfectly.

 

The whole thing brings a little more stress into play and the likelihood and that is the most important thing for me the human error factor in such a stressful situation as a dogfight comes to it. (Misjudgment, incorrect operation, etc.). As it was then. And that is missing completely with technical aids. Since 1946, they all want more and more complex flight simulations, but if they get them then they would be flying with support wheels on a server trying to simulate ww2, lol.

 

And agin for all i fly also both sides with no techchat, but i would never say that i could go with vvs planes into a battle like on TAW or an other server thats whant to be "full real" as this would be to mutch time i need to invest to flly tham in a fight. So this is way some people only fly one side online and the other side ofline only to know at least what this plane can do with a bad pilot in it and how it flys in th eall over view.

 

I have the utmost respect for the people flying the aircraft with more work for the pilot online on a "full real" server

 

As little info  "full real" server in 1946 with no techchat where 24/7 full with 60 - 80 people. from europen 18:00 to 03:00 in the morning. And there where more than one server like this. I would bet that even when TAW lost in the beginning with a "full real" server some pilots, there are other that will come in because off this as it is the next stepp and gives a complet different world to mp flying as you not only have the different between the pilots with flyingtime ( because no knowleg is needed to fly a plane with techchat to his limits ), no also there is the difference between the opreationg pilots. Who can better opperate there planes under stress and has less fear to make some settings wrong and kill his own plane.

 

Hope this makes sense as it is hard for me to finde the right words in english and sorry for the long post.

 

regards

 

Little_D

 

Edited by 1./JG2_Little_D
  • Upvote 2

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