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Tactical Air War

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It depend on what is your goal. If one play to max personal stats then probably yes, but others want to influence the front-line so they will not return immediately after first ak/gk.

 

What would you change? 

 

Yes people may choose to chase stats but maybe they just need to get CMs to replace lost aircraft.  I also agree that there are people who are so good that they don't need to worry about replacing lost aircraft so can fly to win the map and not care about taking damage but my point is that people should not be forced by the game mechanic to choose one or the other.      The game mechanic is supposed to encourage the players to fly in a desirable manner ie get more points or more CMs *by* playing to win the map not *despite* playing to win the map.

 

I just feel that it is a bit too strict in its definition of a 'successful combat mission'.  Yes flying suicidally with no intention of coming home should be strongly discouraged and getting home should be encouraged but the current game is too Black & White' It is "come home without taking any damage or don't bother coming home at all". Shooting down four enemies and getting home despite taking damage should also be rewarded.   In the real world I bet pilots coming with bullet holes as well as multiple kills were more popular than people coming come without a scratch and one kill or no kills at all..

Edited by 56RAF_Roblex

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(..) the current game is too Black & White' It is "come home without taking any damage or don't bother coming home at all". Shooting down four enemies and getting home despite taking damage should also be rewarded.   In the real world I bet pilots coming with bullet holes as well as multiple kills were more popular than people coming come without a scratch and one kill or no kills at all..

 

But if you return damaged and land on the airfield you are rewarded. 

RH_Killer grounded for 36 missions.

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So RH_killer bombed Kappe, probably by accident, and now is banned? The guy had several normal air victories, right, so it may just have been an accident?

 

Just want to understand what is going on here..

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I just feel that it is a bit too strict in its definition of a 'successful combat mission'.  Yes flying suicidally with no intention of coming home should be strongly discouraged and getting home should be encouraged but the current game is too Black & White' It is "come home without taking any damage or don't bother coming home at all". Shooting down four enemies and getting home despite taking damage should also be rewarded.   In the real world I bet pilots coming with bullet holes as well as multiple kills were more popular than people coming come without a scratch and one kill or no kills at all..

I wonder if something like this would work?

  • An aircraft ditched in friendly lines that meets the mission rules (ak/gk or 25 min no ak/gk) is awarded a combat mission.
  • If aircraft is ditched 3 times for current combat mission stint (3) the player is not awarded a combat mission and is instead required to complete 1  extra combat mission for their combat mission stint (4).
  • Player with 3+ ditches is required to complete 2 landings with combat mission awarded to complete combat mission stint. Further ditches result in no reward or penalty.

So basically under this rule you can ditch an aircraft at most twice. You need to land at base at least once. Consistent reckless flying receives a penalty (3+ ditches) to number of combat missions required (4) and aircraft is listed as ditched. Crashes are awarded no combat missions and aircraft is lost.

 

Thoughts?

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I suggested a 50% Combat Mission for every Ditch, once the Aircraft is Returned to the Hangar. So the Combat Missions are tied to getting the Aircraft home in some way or another, be it by Landing at the Airfield or Putting it on a Truck. Delayed Action.

Edited by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

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Klaus,Fidelity,Roblex

 

you all have been playing way longer than I but you are thinking along the lines I was. Kathon your link didn't show for me but basically I got 4 ground kills and got shot up by a 61- K from somwhere.I made it back but my tire was gone when I landed  and spun out on the field.i wasn't awarded a combat mission but.like I said I didn't die be captured or  wounded.I am not a stat guy or am I a good enough player as you all can tell by my stats but I try my hardest when I'm out there but that mission if I was credited would've gotten me a 87 back but didn't and then I went on and proceded to get shot up and die and was set back further,eventhough I made it back on that one.now whats not to say I would've bought it next run. But my long winded point is I did a mission hit the target got hit but made it back and should be credited with a combat mission.as this happened in real life too. I am not mad sir just rying to understand the game better or yet bring something up that may enhance your server next war. :) thanks again for your hard work on the server.

 

Eugene

(SCG_Borchers)

Edited by SCG_Borchers

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Yeah, having the Gear shot off is really annoying. And just general Ground Accidents happening due to Damage. Sometimes it even counts a stopped Engine as 100% destroyed, ON A TWIN. 

 

Once again this is part of the Anti-Ground Attack Agenda that is so blatantly obvious on TAW. Overpowered AA but Aircraft Gunner AI that would fail to hit a Barn, from the inside. With the Doors Locked. 

And then ditching is counted as total loss. 

 

Wanna know the Reason? The Mission Creators haven't set foot in anything other than the best Fighters available. But you are using the Wrong Tactics you Gournd Attack Nubs. 

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot.php?name==LG=Leutnant_Artur 3 Ground Kills in 53 Flights

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot.php?name==LG=Kathon 9 Ground Kills in 29 Flights (only ones visible with GKs were not returned from)

 

We issued a specific Challenge to you guys, to fly Ground Attack, to see our Side of the Story. So far I am disappointed. 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

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Yeah funny thing too Klaus as I was specifcaly looking for the AAA I was circling like 5x and a 109 went in and I saw the1aaa shooting and got it and some other the stuff then leaving bang bang from wherever,lol.

Edited by SCG_Borchers

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So RH_killer bombed Kappe, probably by accident, and now is banned? The guy had several normal air victories, right, so it may just have been an accident?

 

Just want to understand what is going on here..

It was GER_20x82_HE and AP. Even if it was by accident I'm sure RH_Killer can explain this.

 

There were several cases where someone killed a team mate because of "stolen ak". 

 

I suggested a 50% Combat Mission for every Ditch, once the Aircraft is Returned to the Hangar. So the Combat Missions are tied to getting the Aircraft home in some way or another, be it by Landing at the Airfield or Putting it on a Truck. Delayed Action.

Worth to consider this idea.

 

 

Klaus,Fidelity,Roblex

 

you all have been playing way longer than I but you are thinking along the lines I was. Kathon your link didn't show for me but basically I got 4 ground kills and got shot up by a 61- K from somwhere.I made it back but my tire was gone when I landed  and spun out on the field.i wasn't awarded a combat mission but.like I said I didn't die be captured or  wounded.I am not a stat guy or am I a good enough player as you all can tell by my stats but I try my hardest when I'm out there but that mission if I was credited would've gotten me a 87 back but didn't and then I went on and proceded to get shot up and die and was set back further,eventhough I made it back on that one.now whats not to say I would've bought it next run. But my long winded point is I did a mission hit the target got hit but made it back and should be credited with a combat mission.as this happened in real life too. I am not mad sir just rying to understand the game better or yet bring something up that may enhance your server next war. :) thanks again for your hard work on the server.

 

Eugene

(SCG_Borchers)

Ok, now I understand. If ditched on the airfield then you should get CM (or at least 0.5 CM as Klaus_Mann wrote above).

 

 

 

Yeah, having the Gear shot off is really annoying. And just general Ground Accidents happening due to Damage. Sometimes it even counts a stopped Engine as 100% destroyed, ON A TWIN. 

 

Once again this is part of the Anti-Ground Attack Agenda that is so blatantly obvious on TAW. Overpowered AA but Aircraft Gunner AI that would fail to hit a Barn, from the inside. With the Doors Locked. 

And then ditching is counted as total loss. 

 

Wanna know the Reason? The Mission Creators haven't set foot in anything other than the best Fighters available. But you are using the Wrong Tactics you Gournd Attack Nubs. 

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot.php?name==LG=Leutnant_Artur 3 Ground Kills in 53 Flights

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot.php?name==LG=Kathon 9 Ground Kills in 29 Flights (only ones visible with GKs were not returned from)

 

We issued a specific Challenge to you guys, to fly Ground Attack, to see our Side of the Story. So far I am disappointed. 

It's a little unfair. Take a look at squadron stats: we are on the 10th position in GK rank.  Some of us fly fighters to cover others. 

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He prolly did not do that on purpose, I've seen the guy defending the German target and playing for the team.

 

 

 

PS: Ditch on your own Airfield should count any CM's you got. I mean, no one will discard your kills even if you come home shot to hell and manage to land somehow on with one and a half wing. 

Edited by Cpt_Siddy

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He probably misidentified the MC 202 for something else.

 

Considering CMs, I agree that once you have an AK/GK or the required time to get a CM there isn't really a reason to keep flying unless you don't need CMs anymore or you are on a long bomb run. However i fee like changing how ditches work is the wrong approach, especially for fighters. It is already a contradiction that a ditched aircraft counts towards the global aircraft lost tab while you get it returned in 1-3 missions. It would also discourage flying supply missions even further.

Edited by Operation_Ivy
  • Upvote 1

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He probably misidentified the MC 202 for something else.

 

Considering CMs, I agree that once you have an AK/GK or the required time to get a CM there isn't really a reason to keep flying unless you don't need CMs anymore or you are on a long bomb run. However i fee like changing how ditches work is the wrong approach, especially for fighters. It is already a contradiction that a ditched aircraft counts towards the global aircraft lost tab while you get it returned in 1-3 missions. It would also discourage flying supply missions even further.

+1

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It is already a contradiction that a ditched aircraft counts towards the global aircraft lost tab while you get it returned in 1-3 missions. It would also discourage flying supply missions even further.

You are right. It will be fixed. 

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He probably misidentified the MC 202 for something else.

 

Considering CMs, I agree that once you have an AK/GK or the required time to get a CM there isn't really a reason to keep flying unless you don't need CMs anymore or you are on a long bomb run. However i fee like changing how ditches work is the wrong approach, especially for fighters. It is already a contradiction that a ditched aircraft counts towards the global aircraft lost tab while you get it returned in 1-3 missions. It would also discourage flying supply missions even further.

 

 

Considering the damage states, a well totaled air frame on a ditch can be as good as a loss of airplane because there some damages that just cant be repaired.  

The real question is, how does one go about modelling this? 

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A server creator (not this one) once told me that the game does not let you distinguish between 'Bent prop on landing' and 'Written off airframe on landing' so all they can say is that you landed without a scratch or you landed with 'damage'. 

 

I don't know if that is true but if it was then I would vote for erring on the side of 'He reached an airfield and landed so let's be grateful and leave it at that.'   I would even agree with giving CM for getting home alive (assuming usual ak/gk/time criteria met) and an extra bonus for being undamaged.  Alternatively give CMs as they are currently awarded for an undamaged landing and give CMs plus a 2.5 minute spawn delay for a damaged landing to simulate having to repair damage before the next sortie. 

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So RH_killer bombed Kappe, probably by accident, and now is banned? The guy had several normal air victories, right, so it may just have been an accident?

...

 

Perhaps after that he will study the silhouettes of the aircraft, and will not shoot at anything that flies?

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It was dark. It was a mistake. The apology was in the chat. 2x I will never shame my own! google translator. sorry

Edited by RH_Killer

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"There were several cases where someone killed a team mate because of "stolen ak"."

 

I have never done this!

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il-2sturmovikbattleofstalingra.png

 

time for fun on berloaga or wings, how on earth is vvs supposed to get new recruits and new recruits to jooin squadrons

Edited by =FEW=N3croo

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yea, a couple people quit after you. it was 46vs10 when Ieft. I engaged with the only 109 in the area, 4 mintues later get shot by 4 different people then get called a whiner when i point out how uneven the teams are

Edited by =BMAD=TaC47
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yea, a couple people quit after you. it was 46vs10 when Ieft. I engaged with the only 109 in the area, 4 mintues later get shot by 4 different people then get called a whiner when i point out how uneven the teams are

 

 

War is hell!  Right guys?  Guys?

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I cannot understand for the life of me, what drives these poor axis souls to play single player immobile tank targetpractice on a multiplayer server....

 

I was only active on server, and these SCG gentlemen decided it was fun to camp the airport and taunt me "to come out and play".

 

This is literally stooping down to WOL level of behavior on the US timezone. I seriously propose to just make two instances, that run sequentially and independently, once the EU time is over, you run the US scenario and the results there are independent of the EU side. If the US players still insist of single player campaign, at least it wont effect the EU state. 12h/12h split. Would give the US players more incentive to spread the numbers instead of pushing the front lines back to 2-3 airfield  every freaking time when literally no one plays for allies. 

Edited by Cpt_Siddy

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It´s impossible to divebomb on TAW.

Was shot down yesterday with a direct one shot sniper hit from a 72-K flak. The AAA kept on shooting on me while I was on the parachute and then it killed me. It´s ridiculous, how precisely the AAA is shooting on this server. I like TAW for flying with an attacker plane, but flying a bomber is a suicide.

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It´s impossible to divebomb on TAW.

Was shot down yesterday with a direct one shot sniper hit from a 72-K flak. The AAA kept on shooting on me while I was on the parachute and then it killed me. It´s ridiculous, how precisely the AAA is shooting on this server. I like TAW for flying with an attacker plane, but flying a bomber is a suicide.

 

 

Divebombing is harsh, but regular attacking can often also be very severe.  For example, a comrade and myself were attacking a defensive position a few hours ago, in IL-2s.  Standard attack run, good approach and many of the guns cannot hit us because we are so low.  After our first attack pass on the position, as we come away(changing altitude and direction all the time of course)  we are both shot simultaneously and directly once by the two 8.8cm flak 36 guns in the back and instantly destroyed.  Superman himself must have been rotating and aiming those cannons, or maybe some kind of large hyper-intelligent octopus.

Edited by 7.GShAP/Silas
  • Upvote 1

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I cannot understand for the life of me, what drives these poor axis souls to play single player immobile tank targetpractice on a multiplayer server....

 

I was only active on server, and these SCG gentlemen decided it was fun to camp the airport and taunt me "to come out and play".

 

This is literally stooping down to WOL level of behavior on the US timezone. I seriously propose to just make two instances, that run sequentially and independently, once the EU time is over, you run the US scenario and the results there are independent of the EU side. If the US players still insist of single player campaign, at least it wont effect the EU state. 12h/12h split. Would give the US players more incentive to spread the numbers instead of pushing the front lines back to 2-3 airfield  every freaking time when literally no one plays for allies. 

Even while being in SCG as well (I am one of few flying Reds), I agree with this. Let the US players play with themselves, maybe against 50 AI aircraft. But please separate US from EU if possible.

I know this won't be well received, but nothing is better than the salty hard hitting truth. I like the guys, but they and several others who refuse to switch sides - destroy this campaign.

  • Upvote 1

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And for the people who think that german gunners are bad and so on:

 

https://gfycat.com/DopeyDishonestArctichare

 

Stuka gunner pilot killed me. Also last campaign Artur got killed by a Ju 88 gunner. I think i speak for a lot of "ace" pilots when i say that AI gunners are the most feared enemy.

 

They are. (or better to say the weapon is not so deadly).

 

The statistic from the WOL server prove it.

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Let the US players play with themselves, maybe against 50 AI aircraft. But please separate US from EU if possible.

 

I strongly agree with this Statement, excluding the Guys who enjoy the Lend Lease Planes. I flew with an American Yesterday on the Red Side, which obviously makes him OK immediately. 

 

You shouldn't expect People to like stuff that isn't the Best. 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

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il-2sturmovikbattleofstalingra.png

 

time for fun on berloaga or wings, how on earth is vvs supposed to get new recruits and new recruits to jooin squadrons

They are like hunters that hunt their prey to extinction. They really can't seem to understand that fostering the common good ( fun play for EVERYONE ) is what keeps the game viable. Server admins can't keep sticking their head in the sand about this. Just because this stuff happens while they are sleeping doesn't mean it's not screwing up the campaign. People that have a record of playing BOTH sides should be given priority slots for choosing a given side in a new campaign and those slots should be limited. After the limit slots are FULL people should be assigned randomly sides in balanced fashion. "What about my Squadron, we want to fly together?" Your Squadron should EARN that privilege by switching sides instead of gang banging players in 4 to 1 scenarios in order to pad stats.

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Even while being in SCG as well (I am one of few flying Reds), I agree with this. Let the US players play with themselves, maybe against 50 AI aircraft. But please separate US from EU if possible.

I know this won't be well received, but nothing is better than the salty hard hitting truth. I like the guys, but they and several others who refuse to switch sides - destroy this campaign.

This is ridiculous and I'm not sure why you joined a North American group. We are primarily a Luftwaffe organization, which is the reason why most pilots joined our group. If you want to fly Russian, then you are welcome to join an EU Russian team and fly with them.

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I strongly agree with this Statement, excluding the Guys who enjoy the Lend Lease Planes. I flew with an American Yesterday on the Red Side, which obviously makes him OK immediately. 

 

You shouldn't expect People to like stuff that isn't the Best. 

I do to a point. I'm an American and play VVS about 95% of the time, and am only flying VVS on TAW currently. I started with LW but started playing VVS once I realized how stacked LW usually are, and now I actually prefer Soviet fighters because they feel more engaging to me due to all the engine management and are fun to fly when the teams are atleast somewhat balanced. However the later it gets here in the states, the more lopsided the teams get and the fun just disappears turning it into a game of run and hide or get raped by 5 enemy fighters at once. Also, that American you flew with was me ;)

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My condolences to Ivy who, quite relevantly I might add, was killed by a Ju-87 gunner thusly ending a 61 kills streak.

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I cannot understand for the life of me, what drives these poor axis souls to play single player immobile tank targetpractice on a multiplayer server....

 

I was only active on server, and these SCG gentlemen decided it was fun to camp the airport and taunt me "to come out and play".

 

This is literally stooping down to WOL level of behavior on the US timezone. I seriously propose to just make two instances, that run sequentially and independently, once the EU time is over, you run the US scenario and the results there are independent of the EU side. If the US players still insist of single player campaign, at least it wont effect the EU state. 12h/12h split. Would give the US players more incentive to spread the numbers instead of pushing the front lines back to 2-3 airfield  every freaking time when literally no one plays for allies. 

 

Nobody was camping your AF, bro. SCG was covering StG77 and CorZero on a column attack 20 km west of Solodilovo on Map 196, and on defensive position attacks around all sides of Solodilovo on Map 197. You kept taking off from Solodilovo, putting a big fat dot on that AF, so they knew you were coming and they smoked you multiple times. You could have taken off from somewhere else and masked your intent.  And you're trying to misrepresent that situation into a "You Alone vs the Luftwaffe" thing, when actually it was around 9-10 Blue vs 6-7 Red for the 40 minutes I was on, which coincided with the time you were on. You weren't the only Red flier; they smoked other fighters over those targets, but you were the only one repeatedly taking off from the closest AF. If SCG wasn't there and you shot us all down you'd be laughing at the Blue ground attackers who go on target without escort. I don't get the "SP immobile tank target practice" comment. I thought attacking ground targets was one path to victory.

 

Don't try to turn this into an Americans vs. European thing. The first three maps were a one-sided debacle, but Kuban and Moscow North maps have been very, very even numbers-wise in the US time zone. Reds won Kuban and are looking like they're gonna win this one too. Next campaign, StG77_Kondor and I are flying Red for the entire campaign, and we can't wait.....

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And for the people who think that german gunners are bad and so on:

 

https://gfycat.com/DopeyDishonestArctichare

 

Stuka gunner pilot killed me. Also last campaign Artur got killed by a Ju 88 gunner. I think i speak for a lot of "ace" pilots when i say that AI gunners are the most feared enemy.

 

Thats a very common occurrence when attacking Pe2's....

 

 

Strange thing... most complaints about german gunners come from the Stukas... and to some degree 88's. It seems that 111's and 110's gunners are completely useless after all.  :P

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Some aircraft have better gunner stations as part of their design, that's just life.  The focus should be the ability level of the AI gunners(and AA gunners for that matter) in general, not crying and moaning from one side to another.

 

 

EDIT:   Besides, there was already a post of statistics from WOL showing the 111 had the highest number of gunner kills, no?

Edited by 7.GShAP/Silas

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