Tactical Air War

[=LG=Kathon 1234]

I know i bounced a bit on the rwy (those rwys are friggin small for a medium bomber but anyway) but certainly didn't damage anything (normally you're given a warning message).

You landed in sector 0714.2 on inactive Manoylin airfield. Active airfield Novo-Sergievsky was 20km west.

Edited July 16, 2017 by =LG=Kathon

[Psyrion 412]

Kathon, please check your inbox.

 

Thanks

[[ASOR]Pharoah 140]

You landed in sector 0714.2 on inactive Manoylin airfield. Active airfield Novo-Sergievsky was 20km west.

 

ok thanks mate, makes sense if I've landed at the wrong airfield. 

 

As i posted elsewhere, I'm going to stop flying TAW - absolutely love the setup but every mission I've flown, i've been blown out of the sky by AAA every single time and its turned into a very frustrating experience. I'll probably return later on once I've gotten over my frustrations!

[ATAG_dB 170]

ok thanks mate, makes sense if I've landed at the wrong airfield. 

 

As i posted elsewhere, I'm going to stop flying TAW - absolutely love the setup but every mission I've flown, i've been blown out of the sky by AAA every single time and its turned into a very frustrating experience. I'll probably return later on once I've gotten over my frustrations!

I understand that feeling, the AAA is a little overdone specially if you re alone. I even got my wing tear apart at 6K the other day while level bombing.    

[ATAG_dB 170]

I don't know if it was answer before if it is the case i am sorry I couldn't find it. Why can't we spawn as gunners?  

[Retrofly 95]

I understand that feeling, the AAA is a little overdone specially if you re alone. I even got my wing tear apart at 6K the other day while level bombing.    

What did you get hit by, Flak or AA?

 

I've never been shot at by AA until pretty close, and Flak has never been a problem, even a 2-3k.

[ATAG_dB 170]

I don't know the difference between AA and flak, can you tell me please 

[666GIAP_Tumu 309]

I really think, factories and bases need more AAA.

 

I usually see fighters around base, yes flack 88 are shoting but not enought accuracy... small caliber some times hit some enemy... if it turn just over base and still low ... i think is to easy atack airplanes over bases.

 

And Industrial Zones need be a authentical hell.

 

)))

[=LG=Kathon 1234]

I successfully attacked and damaged depot alone without being hit. I completely destroyed half-damaged enemy airfield alone as well. If you are alone try to attack damaged objectives, there will be less AA. 

 

I don't know if it was answer before if it is the case i am sorry I couldn't find it. Why can't we spawn as gunners?  

I didn't have time to implement such case. I assumed that there wouldn't be many people spawning as gunners. 

 

But you can switch positions and play as a gunner in your own airplane during the flight.

[BlackHellHound1 788]

I don't know the difference between AA and flak, can you tell me please 

 

The difference is quite simple. 

AA stands for Anti Aircraft. This includes all types of weapon system designed to take down fixed wing aircraft and helicopters

AAA stands for Anti Aircraft Artillery. Technically the same as AA but sometimes used to designate only the larger calibre AA weapons.

Flak is derived from the German word Flugabwehrkanone. Translated to Aircraft-defence cannon. This designation is often used to for the various 8,8cm air burst cannons (the black clouds high in the sky). However, as my knowledge tells me, the FLAK designation was used for all German AA weapon systems.

 

So, long story short. AA, AAA and Flak are different names for the same thing.

 

A small bit of extra info: modern ground to air rocket systems are usually not mentioned when talking about AA or AAA but technically do fall within the AA or AAA designation. (But do not fall within the Flak designation.)

 

BlackHellHound1

 

Edited July 16, 2017 by BlackHellHound1

[13/JG5Schuck* 9]

Weit über 10 Jahre flieg ich schon virtuell.

Mit erschrecken musste ich veststellen das hier scheinbar im TAW mit Vorliebe auf abgesprungene Piloten geschossen wird.

Das finde ich asozial!

Darüber hinaus rein menschlich verwerflich.

Und zeugt von wenig bis keinen Anstand.

Das kann ja wohl nicht sein!

In jedem anderen Onlinewar war so etwas entweder verboten oder anderweitig geächtet.

Auf 1946er Servern wurde man für sowas damals gebannt.

 

Gibt es keinen Anstand mehr oder ist das so gewollt?

Spiel hin oder her, trotz allem finde ich gibt es Grenzen!

 

Schuck

 

PS: Wenn jemand so freundlich wäre das zu übersetzen, mein Englisch reicht bei weitem nicht, danke.

Edited July 16, 2017 by [I./JG62]Schuck*

[ATAG_dB 170]

The difference is quite simple. 

AA stands for Anti Aircraft. This includes all types of weapon system designed to take down fixed wing aircraft and helicopters

AAA stands for Anti Aircraft Artillery. Technically the same as AA but sometimes used to designate only the larger calibre AA weapons.

Flak is derived from the German word Flugabwehrkanone. Translated to Aircraft-defence cannon. This designation is often used to for the various 8,8cm air burst cannons (the black clouds high in the sky). However, as my knowledge tells me, the FLAK designation was used for all German AA weapon systems.

 

So, long story short. AA, AAA and Flak are different names for the same thing.

 

A small bit of extra info: modern ground to air rocket systems are usually not mentioned when talking about AA or AAA but technically do fall within the AA or AAA designation. (But do not fall within the Flak designation.)

 

BlackHellHound1

 

That's what I tough AA and Flak are the same. Thx

[ATAG_dB 170]

 

 

 

I didn't have time to implement such case. I assumed that there wouldn't be many people spawning as gunners. 

 

But you can switch positions and play as a gunner in your own airplane during the flight.

 

Quite the opposite, this is very useful and fun, few time friends are too tired to fly or didn't spawn yet and can quickly come and help you if you need. It's also good at showing friends or squad mates around the map, the landmark or the navigation and stuff. If it's not to much work think most will appreciate 

 

Edited July 16, 2017 by ATAG_dB

[ER*Melhilion 11]

Weit über 10 Jahre flieg ich schon virtuell.

Mit erschrecken musste ich veststellen das hier scheinbar im TAW mit Vorliebe auf abgesprungene Piloten geschossen wird.

Das finde ich asozial!

Darüber hinaus rein menschlich verwerflich.

Und zeugt von wenig bis keinen Anstand.

Das kann ja wohl nicht sein!

In jedem anderen Onlinewar war so etwas entweder verboten oder anderweitig geächtet.

Auf 1946er Servern wurde man für sowas damals gebannt.

 

Gibt es keinen Anstand mehr oder ist das so gewollt?

Spiel hin oder her, trotz allem finde ich gibt es Grenzen!

 

Schuck

 

PS: Wenn jemand so freundlich wäre das zu übersetzen, mein Englisch reicht bei weitem nicht, danke.

Hi Schuck,

Ist von den Betreibern des TAW Server so geduldet / gewollt.

Pilotenleben ist neben Flugzeugen ein Win-Kriterium auf den Karten.

Um es kurz zu sagen, TAW ist Krieg, da ist alles erlaubt.

 

MfG Mel

[13/JG5Schuck* 9]

Es gibt Grenzen!

Und nein, im Krieg ist nicht alles erlaubt!

 

Alte Jagdflieger haben sich mehr oder weniger unser Spiel mal angesehen und teilweise sogar mitgewirkt haben bei erstellen von Kampagnen.

Ich denke nicht das daß jemand toll gefunden hätte auf Fallschirme zu schießen.

Und ich hab einige kennengelernt.

Gibt es denn keine Ehre mehr unter den Jagdfliegern?

 

Man merkt sehr deutlich, die Generation der Onlienflieger hat gewechselt.

Eine Schande ist das trotzdem.

Edited July 16, 2017 by [I./JG62]Schuck*

[ER*Melhilion 11]

Es kann natürlich sein, das man im wahren Leben froh sein konnte, wenn man selbst oder der Gegner noch abspringen konnte und mit einem Salut den Leistungen des Gegners noch Tribut zollen konnte.

Aber das ist hier nicht das wahre Leben, wie man es aus dem WW1 kennt .

TAW ist knallharte Ostfront und da scheint es keine Gnade zu geben.

Es gab schon in einigen anderen Postings hier im Forum Meinungen darüber, die deinen und meinen Vorstellungen entsprechen, wie man mit abgesprungenden Piloten umgehen sollte, aber wie gesagt, Gnade und Leistungsanerkennung ist an der Ostfront bzw bei TAW nicht gewollt.  

[Kurfuerst 66]

tl;dr translation of Schucks text:

- Parashooting is a bad thing and back in the days they had some honor and dignity. 

- Back in the '46 days you got kicked for that
- The pilot-generation of today is different which is a shamefur dispray.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Der_Kurfuerst

[JG4_Widukind 91]

is it allowed or not ?...pls a Statment from Admins.

[MatthiasAlpha 19]

Thanks for the translation and they have said it is allowed.

[=LG=Leutnant_Artur 370]

To be clear. Chute shooting is allowed. See rules and manual.

[DerSheriff 1048]

Just follow your code. If I have to bail I despawn as quickly as possible. I don't shoot chutes, because it makes not a hole lot of sense.

For me its pretty similar to tea bagging in shooters. For me waste of time as well.

 

[13/JG5Schuck* 9]

Ein Fliegerkumpel hier wurde von den eigenen Leuten vom Falschirm geschossen da jemand scheinbar nicht mehr wusste welcher nun der Feind ist!

Wollt Ihr das alle so haben?

Für solch eine Vorgehensweise kann ich nur meinen Ekel aussprechen.

Und jeder der ein Funken Anstand hat sollte auch so denken.

Edited July 16, 2017 by [I./JG62]Schuck*

[Kurfuerst 66]

"A flyingbuddy was shot down by own people while on the chute, because somebody apparently didnt know who the enemy was!
You'd all like to have it that way?
For behaviour like this I can only express my disgust.

Whoever has a last bit of dignity should think like that."

Edited July 16, 2017 by Der_Kurfuerst

[MeoW.Scharfi 1173]

For me its pretty similar to tea bagging in shooters. For me waste of time as well.

 

 

I disagree! Tea Bagging in Shooters might be a timewaste. But shooting at Chutes is something different. He will lose his combat sortie and his killstreak which will hurt the victim.(what will he lose by getting Tea Bagged?) => nothing

So some people won't be able to fly Yak1b or something the next time by such douchebag actions.(depended on the planeset situation the victim got)

 

So I am clear here. In my opinion lets call them "players" because they are not pilots. Whoever shots at parachutes, doesn't belong in the aviation.

But the rule can stay, so I can filter people out. So I highly respect those who would never shot at chutes and disrespect those who would.

Edited July 17, 2017 by MeoW.Scharfi

[Semor76 465]

I´m completely with [i./JG62]Schuck!

 

Chuteshooting has nothing to do "with merciless War on the eastfront"  It has to do with an unspoken kind of respect in the flight sim community! especially the online part of it. If my opponent managed to bail out of his burning plane and his vitual life hangs on this thin chute,there is absolutly no reason to open fire on this already beaten pilot.

 

I play flight sims for over 20 years now and around 12 years with the classic IL-2. There was a common sense on the servers and on Hyperlobby that this behaviour is a no go for all and I´m really shocked that chootshooting is allowed on TAW....

 

@TAW Admins: Of course,its your server and your rules,and I respect this. Sorry for the harsh words,but as long as this is allowed,I cant put my foot on this server again. sorry. No way. (you can delete my accounts on the TAW page if you wish)

 

 

 

So am clear here. In my opinion lets call them "players" because they are not pilots. Whoever shots at parachutes, doesn't belong in the aviation.

But the rule can stay, so I can filter people out. So I highly respect those who would never shot at chutes and disrespect those who would.

This are to 100% the right words.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Semor76

[Stelcio 5]

I disagree! Tea Bagging in Shooters might be a timewaste. But shooting at Chutes is something different. He will lose his combat sortie and his killstreak which will hurt the victim.(what will he lose by getting Tea Bagged?) => nothing

So some people won't be able to fly Yak1b or something the next time by such douchebag actions.(depended on the planeset situation the victim got)

 

So am clear here. In my opinion lets call them "players" because they are not pilots. Whoever shots at parachutes, doesn't belong in the aviation.

But the rule can stay, so I can filter people out. So I highly respect those who would never shot at chutes and disrespect those who would.

 

So you're basically saying that chute shooting can actually benefit your side by depriving enemies of superior planes...

 

...and at the same time you use this as an argument to support the stance that it's dishonourable and should be forbidden?

 

As far as I understand, the tradition of honourable restraint from chute shooting was established due to the fact that it actually didn't benefit the shooter in any way and only served to demonstrate lack of respect and frustrate the enemy even further after defeating him. In TAW though it seems to have a genuine impact on the outcome of the battle - even if minor one - so I'd say it should be considered a fair game, regardless of established tradition, as this tradition comes from different circumstances.

[7.GShAP/Silas 447]

 

So am clear here. In my opinion lets call them "players" because they are not pilots. Whoever shots at parachutes, doesn't belong in the aviation.

But the rule can stay, so I can filter people out. So I highly respect those who would never shot at chutes and disrespect those who would.

 

 

And what about the guys who sit in fighters on a stacked team with 3-1 or more odds in their favor, and when they finally find some hapless fool from the other team to shoot, they form a pack of piranha, clawing over one another and often crashing and killing themselves in their desperation to prove what aces they are?  You ever fly in a group of 2-3 guys and find yourselves swarmed by 9 fighters?  Has this become totally normal and routine for you, causing you to choose either not flying the game anymore or embracing the deep frustration you feel for your opponents?

 

If I shoot down an enemy fighter craft or one of my comrades does and the enemy parachute comes into my gunsight, I will take revenge for the poor character and unrepentant abusive gameplay they constantly exhibit to my comrades and myself.  That's a promise.  And BTW, I was in the military and I've seen war so don't say that I just don't understand ~honour~ or whatever.  Revenge is sweet.

 

Of course, if it's against the rules I won't do it.

Edited July 16, 2017 by 7-GvShAP/Silas

[MatthiasAlpha 19]

And what about the guys who sit in fighters on a stacked team with 3-1 or more odds in their favor, and when they finally find some hapless fool from the other team to shoot, they form a pack of piranha, clawing over one another and often crashing and killing themselves in their desperation to prove what aces they are? You ever fly in a group of 2-3 guys and find yourselves swarmed by 9 fighters? Has this become totally normal and routine for you, causing you to choose either not flying the game anymore or embracing the deep frustration you feel for your opponents?

 

If I shoot down an enemy fighter craft or one of my comrades does and the enemy parachute comes into my gunsight, I will take revenge for the poor character and unrepentant abusive gameplay they constantly exhibit to my comrades and myself. That's a promise. And BTW, I was in the military and I've seen war so don't say that I just don't understand ~honour~ or whatever. Revenge is sweet.

 

Of course, if it's against the rules I won't do it.

I've flown against odds like that both blue and red. Your mentality is poison. Edited July 17, 2017 by MatthiasAlpha

[[ASOR]Pharoah 140]

Just one point is bothering me - why do we not have 'GPS' type info for bomber pilots? I'm talking He-111, JU-88, maybe PE-2? All bombers (med/heavy) have a navigator/bombardier whose job it is to navigate the way to/from the target. I can understand having this off for fighter pilots (after all its just them in the cockpit), but applying this to bomber pilots isn't quite the same is it? Obviously I'm not sure if you could only allow bombers to see their position on the map but well worth discussing. 

 

Bombers tend to fly long distances and need to be on the proper heading so as to bomb accurately - nothing worse then figuring out too late you're not lined up correctly. 

 

Anyway, just a thought.

[[ASOR]Pharoah 140]

re parachute shooting - you can think of it two ways:

 

1. its a game, plain and simple. Most of us aren't trained pilots and very few (if any) of us have actually flown the BOS a/c we currently fly, but IRL. So, its a game where you have to win and if killing the pilot helps you win...then go for it. Same as sneaking up on a person in BF4 or ARMA or PUBG and popping them in the head; OR

2. you can show some semblance of honor and your own personal feeling, knowing that you're really just trying to shoot down the vpilots plane...not necessarily to kill the vpilot. If sparing the pilot saves your feelings of honor but doesn't help your side...so be it. Refer to #1 above. 

 

At the end of the day, its up to you. Not killing one pilot in his chute isn't going to win the war or lose the war. It shouldn't. If this were 1939 and it was Hitler hanging in that chute...by all means. Otherwise, just do what you want. (hopefully i'm getting my point across)

[BSS_Sniper 18]

Just one point is bothering me - why do we not have 'GPS' type info for bomber pilots? I'm talking He-111, JU-88, maybe PE-2? All bombers (med/heavy) have a navigator/bombardier whose job it is to navigate the way to/from the target. I can understand having this off for fighter pilots (after all its just them in the cockpit), but applying this to bomber pilots isn't quite the same is it? Obviously I'm not sure if you could only allow bombers to see their position on the map but well worth discussing. 

 

Bombers tend to fly long distances and need to be on the proper heading so as to bomb accurately - nothing worse then figuring out too late you're not lined up correctly. 

 

Anyway, just a thought.

 

Don't need it in here. Navigating in here is easier than navigating the same way IRL because the maps are perfect, even down to seeing wood lines and how they're shaped. When I go on high alt bombing missions, I don't take the short route. I plan a route that takes me well around and out of the way of fighters. A run will take me on average 45-60 min. I'm navigating, using the map and terrain features the entire way and lined up near perfectly when I reach the target. I make the final, small adjustments as I'm looking through the bomb sight. It really isn't that difficult and I've done it in the winter as well as summer.

[HenHawk 87]

I've noticed there is a huge difference in culture in flight sims now versus before. It used to be vulching was heavily frowned upon, and chute shooting would not only instantly make everyone hate you, but it would also get you banned from many servers. Before it seemed the idea was more to allow everyone to have fun playing a game. Yes, we are simulating brutal air combat, but in the end, it's a game! What fun is it to be strafed landing/taking off or having a pk from a chute being shot up? How is that sportsmanship or testing your skills against another? It's like a boxer sucker punching or hitting his opponent before they tap gloves. In the many combat flight sims I played in the past, it was usually just given that you'd follow the "golden rule" and respect that others were playing for fun, same as you would be. Now everything seems to be driven by stats, no matter the cost to other's, or even your own, good time. Sad, but I guess things change. I just question if it's for the better.

[ATAG_dB 170]

Just one point is bothering me - why do we not have 'GPS' type info for bomber pilots? I'm talking He-111, JU-88, maybe PE-2? All bombers (med/heavy) have a navigator/bombardier whose job it is to navigate the way to/from the target. I can understand having this off for fighter pilots (after all its just them in the cockpit), but applying this to bomber pilots isn't quite the same is it? Obviously I'm not sure if you could only allow bombers to see their position on the map but well worth discussing. 

 

Bombers tend to fly long distances and need to be on the proper heading so as to bomb accurately - nothing worse then figuring out too late you're not lined up correctly. 

 

Anyway, just a thought.

Hi Pharoah the navigator's never use GPS, they use compass, watch, high scale low res maps, sextant and almanac. Like Sniper say, the map in BOS is high definition and you can zoom on it that brings very high details and a reduce scale that was unthinkable those days. If we where to have it as it was, we are here for a rough ride. It really not that difficult, you just need practice, planning and use your watch. If you fly at 300 KPH you are doing 5 KM per minutes each grid square are 10km, once your time is monitored it's easy to see the expected  

 

o7

Edited July 17, 2017 by ATAG_dB

[Banzaii 138]

New generation of player, don't agree with it, but Ive accepted it as an issue as a sim vet. Ive realized the only way to combat this is to get enough like minded individuals around you, create a community with said people, and then when players come in with this mindset, either adapt or leave.

[19.FS//pezman 305]

Is the TAW website down?  I keep getting an Internal server error 500.

[ACG_Kai_Lae 251]

Don't know about the website but the server was.

[[ASOR]Pharoah 140]

Hi Pharoah the navigator's never use GPS, they use compass, watch, high scale low res maps, sextant and almanac. Like Sniper say, the map in BOS is high definition and you can zoom on it that brings very high details and a reduce scale that was unthinkable those days. If we where to have it as it was, we are here for a rough ride. It really not that difficult, you just need practice, planning and use your watch. If you fly at 300 KPH you are doing 5 KM per minutes each grid square are 10km, once your time is monitored it's easy to see the expected  

 

o7

 

Yes i know navigators don't use GPSs, all I"m saying is IRL pilots also don't navigate or bomb themselves either but we're expected to. They actually have dedicated navigators whose job it is to get them there, yet we have to do all the work.

 

On a long distance mission, its easy. Throw in a stiff xwind and you'll be way off. Happened to me with a 9m/s wind from my rear left quarter...ended up being far right of the target and only realising once i came to a town about 10kms or so south of the target...once I managed to get back onto a correcting course it was too late to get everything set up and was over the target (and got killed by aaa anyway). 

 

The only point I"m trying to make is, flying/bombing is difficult as it is - why are we making it that much more difficult by manually navigating? level bombers really only have 1 shot to drop their bombs so you have to get it right the first time because of flak, fighters, etc. Easy for fighters as they do multiple gun runs, etc. Thats the point I'm trying to make (or discussion i'm trying to have). 

Edited July 17, 2017 by The_Pharoah

[DerSheriff 1048]

Yes i know navigators don't use GPSs, all I"m saying is IRL pilots also don't navigate or bomb themselves either but we're expected to. They actually have dedicated navigators whose job it is to get them there, yet we have to do all the work.

 

On a long distance mission, its easy. Throw in a stiff xwind and you'll be way off. Happened to me with a 9m/s wind from my rear left quarter...ended up being far right of the target and only realising once i came to a town about 10kms or so south of the target...once I managed to get back onto a correcting course it was too late to get everything set up and was over the target (and got killed by aaa anyway). 

 

The only point I"m trying to make is, flying/bombing is difficult as it is - why are we making it that much more difficult by manually navigating? level bombers really only have 1 shot to drop their bombs so you have to get it right the first time because of flak, fighters, etc. Easy for fighters as they do multiple gun runs, etc. Thats the point I'm trying to make (or discussion i'm trying to have). 

its really not that difficult and doable within a reasonable amount of hours when we talk about a Sim. 

Edited July 17, 2017 by DerSheriff

[ATAG_dB 170]

It's not difficult, if fact, quite the opposite. Practice will make you better.

 

Welcome to the full real (although not quite) embrace it and enjoy, there is plenty of server with the arcade mode to chose from in or when you feel for it, but I bet you that if you give more effort there will be no turning back.

 

I agree with the AAA being a little over done though

Edited July 17, 2017 by ATAG_dB

[=LG=Kathon 1234]

Server is temporarily down.