Jump to content
=LG=Kathon

Tactical Air War

Recommended Posts

I feel like the side switching is just the next quorum - great idea on paper but kills the player base in implementation.  I am really excited to fly Germany with the new FM updates for the FW and the challenge of tankbusting with bombs.  I will not be playing religiously if many of the people I play with are switching sides.  It would end up being little more than Wings of Liberty with more death consequences.  In fact I would probably lean more towards WoL in that instance since the player count is likely to be much higher.

I don't think it would leave the server completely empty like quorum, but I definitely agree it could hurt. I also feel it goes against the idea of TAW or at least what I thought the idea of TAW was

 

I would think the switching would at least be limited to once per map (1hr 45min rotation). Maybe even longer.

Hopefully this is the case. At the very worst, they could add a spawn restriction time like on WoL but make it some amount of time longer. I think the one on WoL is something like 3-5 min, if I'm not mistaken

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion even the option of switching side once per mission is too short period. If needs to be done then I'd prefer the side selection for whole map/phase. Anyway it could be interesting feature to test.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I think they're planning is having two accounts to your name. One for LW and one for VSS. Your characters will have different stats and different available planes depending on how well you do.

 

So technically you're not switching sides, you'd be switching to your alternative character that may or may not have the plane you want.

Edited by [TWB]Sketch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think if the new 110 is in the next TAW and they give the 110E2 to the Axis from the start, maybe 109F2 as well, then numbers shouldn't be an issue.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I think they're planning is having two accounts to your name. One for LW and one for VSS. Your characters will have different stats and different available planes depending on how well you do.

 

So technically you're not switching sides, you'd be switching to your alternative character that may or may not have the plane you want.

Point being, you are still fighting vs yourself.  You can try and split that hair however many ways you want but it is undeniably counter intuitive to campaign style gameplay.

As a suggestion, I would ask everyone who is for having two accounts or characters, whatever go and get a chessboard and play one game against themself.  Then do it 5-6 more times.

 

Doesn't that feel repetitive and dumb?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-snip-

 

go and get a chessboard and play one game against themself.  Then do it 5-6 more times.

Doesn't that feel repetitive and dumb?

 

Some of the greatest Grand Masters of all time do this.

 

The TAW guys are just trying to open up options for better balancing.

Aside: Is TAW something that can be joined/played on the fly when the server is up or is it something that is only available during certain hours and probably organized entirely around European time zones?

 

As an American from the Midwest, I miss out on 9/10 of the cool things that go on in the MP community based on time zone alone.

Edited by 4./JG52_Space_Ghost
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of the greatest Grand Masters of all time do this.

 

The TAW guys are just trying to open up options for better balancing.

Aside: Is TAW something that can be joined/played on the fly when the server is up or is it something that is only available during certain hours and probably organized entirely around European time zones?

 

As an American from the Midwest, I miss out on 9/10 of the cool things that go on in the MP community based on time zone alone.

It's up 24/7 during a campaign, but when a campaign completes, the server comes down and  brought back up with reset stats and campaign. Usually the interim period might be quicker, but since the last campaign completed they've been doing some extensive rework to the server and script to try and improve the experience. It should be back up in a few weeks, I think.

Edited by 71st_AH_Scojo
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's up 24/7 during a campaign, but when a campaign completes, the server comes down and  brought back up with reset stats and campaign. Usually the interim period might be quicker, but since the last campaign completed they've been doing some extensive rework to the server and script to try and improve the experience. It should be back up in a few weeks, I think.

 

Thanks, Scojo.

 

If I understand correctly, that means that the mission is never ending/persistent for the duration of the campaign? Or does the mission end after specific time cycles (1hr, 2hr, etc) like the missions on a standard server?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Scojo.

 

If I understand correctly, that means that the mission is never ending/persistent for the duration of the campaign? Or does the mission end after specific time cycles (1hr, 2hr, etc) like the missions on a standard server?

Np :)

 

A mission is roughly 1hr 45min, I think. Based on what happens in that mission, the same map will be brought back with modified targets, or a new map will be brought up to simulate the front moving one way or another. This continues until one side "captures" all of the maps, signifying the end of the overall "campaign".

 

Also, at the end of each mission, the front can move without all objectives being destroyed as long as the attacking ground force strength is significantly higher than the defending ground force strength.

 

This is how I understand it

Edited by 71st_AH_Scojo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I think they're planning is having two accounts to your name. One for LW and one for VSS. Your characters will have different stats and different available planes depending on how well you do.

 

So technically you're not switching sides, you'd be switching to your alternative character that may or may not have the plane you want.

yes, two independent accounts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

its always going to unhistorical balance until someone makes a dserver script that can force like 40 VVS versus 20 LW (tho thats still rather unbalanced)
LW better bombers
LW better fighters
VVS Only advantage (fast dive bombers)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are two main reason for the imbalance. The first is a big squadron that is not in europe time zone. The new rule will not help because the squad want to work together. The other reason for imbalance is a plane set advantage. And when one side start to have number advantage the advantage tend to grow because flying in this situation is suicidal to your garage. The side switching will not solve any of those problems.

A solution can be to track the numbers on the server. And during plane loss, if the imbalance is more than 2 to 1 you will not lose your plane. This will bring players to fly in face of imbalance. And will actually prevent the snowball effect that happens now when one side has a temporary advantage.  

 

The 2 account feature will be a greater problem then the problem it is meant to solve.

And for the large non europe squad, just ban the TWB. ( just kidding :wacko:  ).

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all, I noticed the TAW server is back up on the multiplayer list but there was no-one playing. When does the next campaign start?

 

Cheers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of the greatest Grand Masters of all ti

Are you recommending I get two flight setups/pc's and fly against myself as the tactic to become one of the very best pilots?

 

There are some parallels between two of anything, just like I brought up about repetition.  Don't try and force a poor analogy between the two simply to make a counterpoint that is illogical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why should the teams be balanced, when the teams on the other servers without a faction-lock aren't balanced either? There are ppl, which would try and balance the teams, as on the other servers, but still we will end up with an axis surplus in most of the EU-Timezone-Playtime.

Best and only viable thing to balance would be to limit the max. amount of players per side. Tears will be dropped, but it's for the greater good, for sure! : D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you recommending I get two flight setups/pc's and fly against myself as the tactic to become one of the very best pilots?

 

There are some parallels between two of anything, just like I brought up about repetition. Don't try and force a poor analogy between the two simply to make a counterpoint that is illogical.

Actually, Roo5ter, it seems that's what you were originally recommending... Or perhaps you were trying to force an analogy..?

 

It was a comment in passing. [edited]

 

7. Comments containing profanity, personal insults, accusations of cheating, excessive rudeness, vulgarity, drug propaganda, political and religious discussion and propaganda, all manifestations of Nazism and racist statements, calls to overthrow governments by force, inciting ethnic hatred, humiliation of persons of a particular gender, sexual orientation or religion are not allowed and will result in a ban.

Edited by SYN_Haashashin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A squadmate said the server has gone up and down several times. Hopefully that means they're testing and it'll be up officially soon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, Roo5ter, it seems that's what you were originally recommending... Or perhaps you were trying to force an analogy..?

 

It was a comment in passing. [edited]

 

 

Some of the greatest Grand Masters of all time do this.

 

The TAW guys are just trying to open up options for better balancing.

Aside: Is TAW something that can be joined/played on the fly when the server is up or is it something that is only available during certain hours and probably organized entirely around European time zones?

 

As an American from the Midwest, I miss out on 9/10 of the cool things that go on in the MP community based on time zone alone.

Let's take a step back.

 

You refute my point in the same breath that shows you clearly have no experience with TAW.  That doesn't even make a little sense.  You can claim [edited] but in reality you are trying to argue when you haven't even been a part of the campaign.  I am simply making valid points that some agree with and some disagree with.  If you are taking anything personally that is your own prerogative.

 

Lets not get to personal guys...

Edited by SYN_Haashashin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Space_Ghost may have been refuting your description of playing chess against yourself as "dumb". If chess grand masters do it, then there's some useful purpose behind it. So he wasn't refuting your point of playing against yourself on the server being dumb, just your use of the analogy of playing chess against yourself and saying that it isn't a good analogy for here.

 

In fact it wasn't a good analogy because you later say that playing chess against yourself is like setting up two flight sticks and flying two opposing planes at once against each other, which wasn't the point you were trying to make earlier, which was saying fly a mission on one side then fly a mission on another.

 

Regardless, I agree with what you're saying fully, Roo5ter. Having full free side switching is bad and goes against the spirit of TAW, however maybe the admins want to give it a go and see how people do with it. Maybe it won't get abused, maybe it will. I think they just want to try it. If it goes poorly (which I think it would), they can always bring the server down for a little while and disable it and we'll be back to where we were before.

 

I'm willing to try it if it helps them learn their player base better so they set better rules and features for us

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you missed part of the discussion there about the flight sticks, but trying to chase rabbit holes and discuss that argument further is just going to move this more off topic.  

The point stands that playing both sides in whatever manner for campaign and persistent gameplay is self-defeating.  The TAW server will offer little more than Wings of Liberty if that is the case, yet with a much smaller player base.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I follow chess. I read and listen to many chess grand master advices. Never heard about chess GM playing against himself. Where did you come with that idea? Do you have a source ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bobby Fischer used to play against himself. Even several games simultanously. He is not the best example of a sane person, though.

I am also pretty sure that most Grand Masters test certain situations, openings and end games, by playing both sides.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we can pick apart the chess thing and even though it is headed in my favor or at least against Space Ghost, we should get back to the real topic at hand, playing both sides of TAW.

Now that the announcement has been out there for a little while and people have had time to digest it, is there anyone (who has played in a TAW campaign) that believes it is beneficial?  I only played the last one and I just see no value in it.  Obviously this is not a democratic vote but the TAW team has shown they are quite receptive to feedback so hopefully people have some more to say on it :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe when one side wins a map a changeover opportunity could be allowed. Not crazy about the idea of people switching sides anytime. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we can pick apart the chess thing and even though it is headed in my favor or at least against Space Ghost, we should get back to the real topic at hand, playing both sides of TAW.

 

Now that the announcement has been out there for a little while and people have had time to digest it, is there anyone (who has played in a TAW campaign) that believes it is beneficial?  I only played the last one and I just see no value in it.  Obviously this is not a democratic vote but the TAW team has shown they are quite receptive to feedback so hopefully people have some more to say on it :D

 

We have an official announcement, but no specifics. Can you switch anytime? After each 1hr45min mission rotation? After each map? Makes a huge difference IMO.

 

If it's as infrequent as each map, I do think it's beneficial because e.g. VVS pilots can switch to LW if the VVS ends up winning the first couple maps in a row. If it's more often, I've changed my original opinion and agree it's silly and takes away from TAW somewhat.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've flown a few of these campaigns now,  and always a LW.

In my opinion, if you want to change sides all the time fly WoL, if you want a full real CooP style mission, fly FNBF,

and if you want a full real campaign fly TAW, and swap sides at the end of each campaign.

I like to know what squads i'm up against, and fly accordingly, that wont be possible if one minute someone is your friend and the next map he is your enemy.

I also feel its the way missions are set out and the objectives that have a major impact on the outcome, not so much the players.

So no, i don't believe it will be beneficial in any way for people to keep changing sides to some how even things up.

I would rather loose every map than loose the feeling of belonging to one side/one team.

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've flown a few of these campaigns now,  and always a LW.

In my opinion, if you want to change sides all the time fly WoL, if you want a full real CooP style mission, fly FNBF,

and if you want a full real campaign fly TAW, and swap sides at the end of each campaign.

I like to know what squads i'm up against, and fly accordingly, that wont be possible if one minute someone is your friend and the next map he is your enemy.

I also feel its the way missions are set out and the objectives that have a major impact on the outcome, not so much the players.

So no, i don't believe it will be beneficial in any way for people to keep changing sides to some how even things up.

I would rather loose every map than loose the feeling of belonging to one side/one team.

I am somewhat sure that most teams will stick to one side and single players, lone wulfs will switch here and there. Some of the bigger groups are fixed to one faction anyway and wont switch

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well spoken, Schuck


I am somewhat sure that most teams will stick to one side and single players, lone wulfs will switch here and there. Some of the bigger groups are fixed to one faction anyway and wont switch

And I think this is why the admins are doing it. They want to try it to test it out.

 

If they notice a lot of traffic back and forth and it's a problem, I'm sure they'll change things again.

 

While I don't like it and think it has a good chance of becoming a negative, I'm willing to try it so the admins can learn something from it and decide where to go from there

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only reason I liked the idea of being able to switch sides was because my squad is Euro based and we normally fly German.  But in the NA evening when I can usually play, I'm often flying VVS with folks on TS.

 

While side switching lone wolves can definitely do damage, I don't think they'll be capable of single-handedly undoing the efforts and effect of coordinated teamwork.

 

I hope that we are not able to switch during the same map. 

 

I certainly won't boycott the server if I don't like an idea the owners are trying to test; but it will be unfortunate to see the numbers dive off like they did with the introduction of the quorum rule.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my humble opinion the reason for the issue with numbers was the plane set.

 

I am not 100% sure on this information but when Nazi Germany invaded the Soviet Union, they were already flying the 109F models.  However on TAW the LW starts off with only the 109E7.

 

Also, the LW attacked not only with Stukas but also 110's, however on TAW the LW starts out with only Stukas.

 

This makes defeating the VVS very hard in the beginning of a campaign because the tools just aren't there for the LW like they were in real life.  With the new aircraft that the dev's are adding (and have added) I hope to see this fixed on TAW. 

 

Start a TAW campaign with the same VVS plane set but give the LW 109F2's and 110E2's to make it historical.  This should help the LW drive back the VVS before they get their better aircraft and are able to push.

 

Last TAW was a calamity with the quorum and plane set.  The 19th pulled a tour on the LW and concentrated all our ops on taking out ground targets.  It was near impossible.  The Ju-88 and He-111 are not good tactical bombers at all and the Ju-87 gets ripped apart without escort.  However, with the low durability and limited ordinance that the LW aircraft have to deal with means that all available pilots have to fly ground attack in order to inflict enough damage, in the constraints of the time limit (per map), to stop the VVS advance.

 

However this is just my opinion.

  • Upvote 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my humble opinion the reason for the issue with numbers was the plane set.

 

I am not 100% sure on this information but when Nazi Germany invaded the Soviet Union, they were already flying the 109F models.  However on TAW the LW starts off with only the 109E7.

 

Also, the LW attacked not only with Stukas but also 110's, however on TAW the LW starts out with only Stukas.

 

This makes defeating the VVS very hard in the beginning of a campaign because the tools just aren't there for the LW like they were in real life.  With the new aircraft that the dev's are adding (and have added) I hope to see this fixed on TAW. 

 

Start a TAW campaign with the same VVS plane set but give the LW 109F2's and 110E2's to make it historical.  This should help the LW drive back the VVS before they get their better aircraft and are able to push.

 

Last TAW was a calamity with the quorum and plane set.  The 19th pulled a tour on the LW and concentrated all our ops on taking out ground targets.  It was near impossible.  The Ju-88 and He-111 are not good tactical bombers at all and the Ju-87 gets ripped apart without escort.  However, with the low durability and limited ordinance that the LW aircraft have to deal with means that all available pilots have to fly ground attack in order to inflict enough damage, in the constraints of the time limit (per map), to stop the VVS advance.

 

However this is just my opinion.

 

Couldn't agree with you more. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New TAW campaign starts 12.02.2017 Sunday morning.

 

 

Changes and new features:

  • New TAW TS3 is available taw-server.de:9988 The are some squadron’s channels created so we may setup whispers to each other for better communication. If you like this idea and would like to add your squadron then pm me. TS3 channels are visible on the Teamspeak tab. 
  • Registration is optional now. You may just join the server and start the campaign (first sortie determines your side Allied or Axis). If you would like to create a squadron and add members to it then you should register your account. Registration will be available on Sunday (server is still in test stage)
  • In case of lack of players on one side you may register additional account for the opposite side with different pilot’s name. To change the side you have to  change your Username at https://il2sturmovik.com/account/ respectively first. Those accounts would be independent at each other. Penalty for changing the sides during the mission is 10min. (I know it's not the ideal solution but I would like to test it)
  • No quorum
  • Defense line consist of three positions around the city. The main strength of defense are anti-tanks artillery and tanks. Then dugouts and armored vehicles like Sd.Kfz. 251 and BM13 at the front line. You should destroy as many as possible of those objects.
  • Different tank types in tank convoys (light, medium, heavy tanks).
  • Allied AA in Allied tank/supply convoys (there was Axis AA before)
  • Train stations. If train on the station is destroyed then nearby city will not be supplied from it. Destroy as many wagons as possible.
  • Bridges. If bridge is destroyed then advancing tank convoy will not be supplied. To destroy this object you have to destroy the  whole bridge and dugout.
  • Ju 52 for Axis. Landing on friendly airfield with cargo supply this airfield for about 6-8%.
  • If Allied airfield is damaged more than 50% then paratroopers drop zone is visible on the map (blue circle near that airfield). If at least 60 paratroopers land within area of this drop zone then they may capture the airfield with probability of 30%-80% (probability = airfield_damage% minus 20%). So the more damaged is airfield the more chance to capture it. Remember to destroy incoming Allied supply convoy or train near the city (they may supply the airfield and lower it’s damage after mission).
  • If airfield is closed then there is a reason in mission briefing (like enemy tanks nearby, in repair, heavily damaged ect.)
  • Other small fixes and improvements.
  • Plane set (Bf 110E-2 available from the beginning, Bf 109 F-2 from map #2)

planeset_v1_4_4.jpg

 

  • Number of slots limited to 64. The new server is faster but on the other hand I added many new ground objects and AA. Need to monitor server CPU first before increasing number of slots.
  • Some squadrons skins have been updated. 

 

Good luck!

  • Upvote 14

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sry guys but the again the Moscow plane sets for the beginning? Your server is awesome, dont get me wrong. But the forced balancing is kinda odd for a server who proclaimed at somepoint a historical context.
Would be more immersive if the planes get added by progressing date and not in this forced manner. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sry guys but the again the Moscow plane sets for the beginning? Your server is awesome, dont get me wrong. But the forced balancing is kinda odd for a server who proclaimed at somepoint a historical context.

Would be more immersive if the planes get added by progressing date and not in this forced manner. 

The historical context is still far in front of us ;)

 

Can you elaborate your idea little more or give an example. It was easy to give every map a different plane set. If I understand correctly you would like to have change in plane set during current map depending on the date?

Edited by =LG=Kathon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The historical context is still far in front of us ;)

 

Can you elaborate your idea little more or give an example. It was easy to give every map a different plane set. If I understand correctly you would like to have change in plane set during current map depending on the date?

Yes!

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One possible way to implement Sheriff's suggestion would be to call a map a tie after some amount of days (maybe a week?) and advance without giving either side a victory. This could be frustrating if one side was very close to victory, however. It's a cool idea to think about tho.

 

I also like p3zman's suggestion of allowing F2s for the Axis from the start. The Axis would start with an advantage and as things progressed, the VVS would probably gain the advantage once they got lots of La-5s and Yak-1bs. Though with the team switching, this could result in people starting Axis and going VVS later, which would be lame.

 

But those are thoughts for next campaign- now, I'm thinking about shooting down Stukas and E-7s in my I-16! Woo!

Edited by 19.GIAP//curiousGamblerr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×