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=LG=Kathon

Tactical Air War

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1 hour ago, =LG=Kathon said:

It works in different way. If a kill is reported in a log file then an attacker and a victim is read from the log file.

 

But very often if a victim is only damaged and he crashes it is reported in log files as "victim killed victim" or there is no id of the attacker at all ( it's a bug reported a very long time ago) so its not possible to get real attacker from the log file. In that case the script gets the last pilot who damaged this victim.

 

I have a plan to change it to pilot who made the most damage.

I've also had multiple times that, I get a kill after I have bailed out, and am not credited said kill in TAW (in game i do get credited). Note that this not always the case, sometimes TAW credits me the kill too

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=31381&name==FSB=HandyNasty

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1 hour ago, -IRRE-Centx said:

 

We are quite a few people trying to convince Hartmanns to do something else but eh...

Two days ago, we had to defend our north depot, attacked by two Russian tank columns. We were at least 3 to ask to every pilot to bring bombs on tank columns, even 109s to do jabo missions.
I spawned at north airfield, and I looked around me.
4 109s there, taking off from parking (one failed and crashed into a static plane...), without bomb, and going somewhere south *facepalm*

 

GG to the Russian side, quite an easy win for you.

Jeeze that sounds like Hell, from a VVS Players perspective of most of our pilots can fly either fighter or bomber or dont mind bringing bomb loads with their fighter.

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13 minutes ago, MentalishMan said:

Jeeze that sounds like Hell, from a VVS Players perspective of most of our pilots can fly either fighter or bomber or dont mind bringing bomb loads with their fighter.

I'd say that it's because without a bomb, the Russian fighters are slightly outclassed by German fighters. So why not bring a bomb anyway?

Edited by [TWB]Sketch
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2 hours ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

 

 

Another factor is that the number of drop zones is unlimited.  I've seen 5-6 drop zones during one mission.

Are you sure? Maybe you confuse undiscovered supply convoy area (white circle) with drop zones?

 

 

1 hour ago, =FSB=HandyNasty said:

I've also had multiple times that, I get a kill after I have bailed out, and am not credited said kill in TAW (in game i do get credited). Note that this not always the case, sometimes TAW credits me the kill too

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=31381&name==FSB=HandyNasty

What is wrong in this sortie? I don't get it.

 

You damaged Ju-88 which was shot down by other Il-2 mod.1941 and then you damaged and shot down Bf 109 F-2. In the sorties list there is AK=1.

 

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34 minutes ago, =LG=Kathon said:

Are you sure? Maybe you confuse undiscovered supply convoy area (white circle) with drop zones?

 


@=LG=Kathon I think he means that Red could have all their AFs (as long as they have the 'Attack' wording under them) damaged enough to allow FJs to capture it. In other words, it's not just one drop zone per map. 

Edited by StG77_Kondor
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55 minutes ago, =LG=Kathon said:

What is wrong in this sortie? I don't get it.

 

You damaged Ju-88 which was shot down by other Il-2 mod.1941 and then you damaged and shot down Bf 109 F-2. In the sorties list there is AK=1.

oh wow i didn't see the IL2 hits... :dash::dash:

 

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16 hours ago, I./JG1_Pragr said:

Hopefully I don't start any balance flame again. But the numbers have been relatively well balanced during CET prime time last three days. It almost exactly correlates with the map #3 start. Anyway I'm surprised that nobody is complaining now when the server is flooded by 20+ VVS  fighting against 0 LW ;)

 

 

 

Well admin doesn't really have any control over this - unless they decide to add a simple code. It's very easy, just limit both side not to have more than x number of players more for than the other. Whatever that # is fine - right now it is LW:4 VVS:24 earlier it was even greater than that. My guess is VVS just killing ground targets.

 

I can't see anything but upside here - now you don't have to worry about imbalance. No more asking how many squads are flying RED/BLUE and what time zone - which is just guessing and doesn't pan out like that (in finance how many times does your fiscal budget = actual, answer is never! - this is why you have forecasts, so you can constantly tweak (...because of new and better information) where you will end up at the end of the year).

Edited by JG7_X-Man
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10 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

LW:20 VVS:53 WTF!

But its A-Okay when the LW are Stacked 52 to 20VVS or worse when the major Axis Operations are going on. Its a common place to just accept that at different time zones some players may be more active than others, but too be fair the 20 LW pilots are probably all flying out BF 109s and not cooperating for JABO or ground strike missions. 

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22 hours ago, JG7_X-Man said:

 right now it is LW:4 VVS:24 earlier it was even greater than that. My guess is VVS just killing ground targets.

 

35 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

LW:20 VVS:53 WTF!

 

Interesting how you decide to pick the time that benefits your argument and choose to ignore when it's been 50-20 or so on previous maps during most of EU time (most day). Also is a "scape goat" to distract you from the fact that even with those numbers favouring LW, yesterday,  we managed to focus on important targets and defended our AFs, killed tank columns and captured some territory. Also did that in the morning were there were 18 blues (mostly CHN squads) vs 4 of us, and we managed to defend important tank columns. 

 

You are right, 25-3 is not fun, but hey, after being outnumbered most of other times, or everytime on map 1 with blue stacking sides up to 60+ vs 20 ...i think is not that unfair that this time we get to "relax" a little bit sometimes. So, there is some kind of balance in this imbalance.

 

I think all the changes Kathon and team did for this TAW are great:

 

1. Made Ju-52 +1

2. Unable to spawn from AFs when diff in quorum it's high

3. Balance between depots strength and tank columns

4. Planeset spot on so far

 

I would recommend for future ones in order to make balance even better:

 

1. Cap slots to 45 (or similar number). No more than 45 pilots can join one side

2. Also add to that previous point, a reduction in damage % depending on difference in numbers on the server. For instance, if one side has 30 guys and the other 5, just make some kind of algorithm that reduces the effectivness of the bigger side damage. 

 

S!

 

 

 

Edited by 666GIAP_Chimango
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7 hours ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

 

1. Cap slots to 45 (or similar number). No more than 45 pilots can join one side

2. Also add to that previous point, a reduction in damage % depending on difference in numbers on the server. For instance, if one side has 30 guys and the other 5, just make some kind of algorithm that reduces the effectivness of the bigger side damage. 

 

S!


1) Yes. Even a hard cap of 50 could work. I think this allows more wiggle room. 50 vs 34 is still pretty good.
2) No, I don't think this is a good idea. The team with 30 will still have to deal with AA the same as the team with 5 does. I think a hard cap per side is good, but to have an algorithm to recalculate damage? No gracias :). The pilots on both teams don't need an additional handicap or charity. 

Edited by StG77_Kondor
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1 hour ago, StG77_Kondor said:


1) Yes. Even a hard cap of 50 could work. I think this allows more wiggle room. 50 vs 34 is still pretty good.
2) No, I don't think this is a good idea. The team with 30 will still have to deal with AA the same as the team with 5 does. I think a hard cap per side is good, but to have an algorithm to recalculate damage? No gracias :). The pilots on both teams don't need an additional handicap or charity. 

 

Right ! Limit for 50 pilots is totally OK. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, StG77_Kondor said:


1) Yes. Even a hard cap of 50 could work. I think this allows more wiggle room. 50 vs 34 is still pretty good.
2) No, I don't think this is a good idea. The team with 30 will still have to deal with AA the same as the team with 5 does. I think a hard cap per side is good, but to have an algorithm to recalculate damage? No gracias :). The pilots on both teams don't need an additional handicap or charity. 

 

1) Agree. That's why i said 45 or similar; anything between 45 and a maximum of 50 would be OK.


2) Yes, but dealing with AAA in huge numbers with clear skies is a walk in the park. TAW is a PvP competition...if someone wants to have an easier time with no human fighter opposition, he should join a COOP server. Is not fair for both teams who fight in equal conditions during most of the day (if the cap limitation starts to apply) to see that during early A.M times (Midnight through 6AM) there are guys destroying all their efforts in two map loads. 

 

The algorythm i think of  would work only when a certain number of pilots one side has it's reached, let's say 25 for instance, and the difference in team quorum exceeds let's say 3:1. So, there are 25v5? Ok, then the damage to the map targets count as 0.75 instead of 1.0. They will have their kills and their fun...but won't tilt to one side the map outcome when nobody is opposing them and keep the competition high during times where most people joins the server. I think this would be fair, and would prevent the ground pounding speculation "hey, few guys in the other team...let's join now and pound some sh*t while they sleep".

If you don't like this idea, then propose another one instead to make hugely  uneven quorums less vital to the map outcome.

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Last mission allied tanks attacking Gromoslavka had blue labels as well as axis planes when watching in replay. Is that a bug? 

Another thing is the rain with blues sky. I know it can happen but is not usual. I think it should be more white. 

Edited by Jr_Lt_Tatanov

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After everyone got tired of listening to my pleading to organise we finally got together and managed to get things done. Thanks Centx, flesch, Serenity, 335th, Stoltz and Wagner. Apologies if I forget someone else. Awesome work.

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7 hours ago, StG77_Kondor said:


1) Yes. Even a hard cap of 50 could work. I think this allows more wiggle room. 50 vs 34 is still pretty good.
2) No, I don't think this is a good idea. The team with 30 will still have to deal with AA the same as the team with 5 does. I think a hard cap per side is good, but to have an algorithm to recalculate damage? No gracias :). The pilots on both teams don't need an additional handicap or charity. 

 

1. I agree 50 vs 34 isn't bad. It's less than a 2:1 but wouldn't +10 max be better. When you have 30 on one side, the max on the other is 40.

2. If you are looking to just shoot up AI columns and buildings (...with no aircraft to stop you) and the TAW server keep score for you to compare point to others, I am not sure that is what TAW was intended for. I think "KG-200 "LEONIDAS" Server" is perfect for you😏

 

From our IL-2 Forgotten Battles days (2000), VEF, VOW, CW, SEOW and others made this about pilot vs pilot, with some mud moving elements. However, with this being 90% ground target based and 10% fighter combat based - the #2 point is the problem. The map will move substantially to either side when a few (...Ok a lot) ground pounders what to play target practice with not fighter cover to stop them.

 

As just a user - we have no say. However, when I see 30 vs 10 I am not joining, even if the side with 30 is LW. I just updated DCS last night. 

 

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1 hour ago, JG7_X-Man said:

 

 However, with this being 90% ground target based and 10% fighter combat based - the #2 point is the problem. The map will move substantially to either side when a few (...Ok a lot) ground pounders what to play target practice with not fighter cover to stop them.

 

 

94% of sorties flown by the Axis side are in fighters.  You're blinded by your own biases here.

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Hello, on this glorious day, 5 brave JU52, and 2 Bf109 pilots took off to drop paratroopers near an ennemy Airfield.
Here's some pictures taken during the flight, from 109 POV.
Thanks to eveybody implied in this, fun sortie and great experience :)
20181209174334_1.thumb.jpg.a10db9d6eeb969cf0d470ff26edac689.jpg

20181209173849_1.jpg

20181209174902_1.jpg

20181209175704_1.jpg

20181209175930_1.jpg

20181209180113_1.jpg

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1 hour ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

 

94% of sorties flown by the Axis side are in fighters.  You're blinded by your own biases here.

 

I am not sure where your stats are coming from - however, I would like to see them.

Edited by JG7_X-Man
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Change your tactics to the prevailing numbers. If you are outnumbered play defense or team up to create local superiority. Take chances when the payoff is big, enjoy the challenge. It’s much more satisfying getting a good strike against the odds than when your side is dominant. My two cents....

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3 hours ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

 

94% of sorties flown by the Axis side are in fighters.  (snip)

Yet Axis bomber pilots FIRMLY dominate the TOP 5 list....   Hooray 2 ton bombs. I guess? :huh:

Edited by =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ
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4 minutes ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

Yet Axis bomber pilots FIRMLY dominate the TOP 5 list....   Hooray 2 ton bombs. I guess? :huh:

 

 

Hooray pilot-killing pe2 pilots whenever possible :) top #5 only considers live players. Look at top 5 bombing squads and you get a different picture. 

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3 hours ago, JG7_X-Man said:

 

I am not sure where your stats are coming from - however, I would like to see them.

 

 

The stats were posted here a few campaigns ago by the server administration.  It is no exaggeration.

Edited by 7.GShAP/Silas

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5 hours ago, Kniiw said:

Hello, on this glorious day, 5 brave JU52, and 2 Bf109 pilots took off to drop paratroopers near an ennemy Airfield.
Here's some pictures taken during the flight, from 109 POV.
Thanks to eveybody implied in this, fun sortie and great experience :)
20181209174334_1.thumb.jpg.a10db9d6eeb969cf0d470ff26edac689.jpg

20181209173849_1.jpg

20181209174902_1.jpg

20181209175704_1.jpg

20181209175930_1.jpg

20181209180113_1.jpg

Yes was fun...and we got the airfield👍🏻

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Nice Ju52 formation! That's one of the things that makes TAW different, those big bomber or transport formations you see every now and then. I'm always thankful to the people who puts them up in the air, being LW or VVS, it's a great sight. 

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12 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Chimango said:

Nice Ju52 formation! That's one of the things that makes TAW different, those big bomber or transport formations you see every now and then. I'm always thankful to the people who puts them up in the air, being LW or VVS, it's a great sight. 

Agreed! 👍

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Amazing formation and nice drops. Also big thumbs up for the massive Peshka formations attacking Gromoslavka/nearby tanks yesterday late evening (EU time). It was a sight to behold!

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13 hours ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

Yet Axis bomber pilots FIRMLY dominate the TOP 5 list....   Hooray 2 ton bombs. I guess? :huh:

 

2 ton bombs?
Taken from TAW manual :

2ton.png.54c7e7244dc1c69ba8ccb18c4939b534.png

 

So yes a German bomber have more bombs in total compared to a Pe-2, but since almost every bombers are taking Ju88 (for the speed), we only have 500kgs bombs if we want big calibers, no big fat ton bombs.

 

And the top 5 you're quoting is the top 5 of ALIVE bomber pilots. 
Look the top 5 bombers squads => 4 VSS squads, 1 German

Top 5 tank killers squads => 4 VSS squads, 1 German

Edited by -IRRE-Centx

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Very tough this round on soviet side without the depots (is it intended for them to be destroyed from the mission start?). With some valiant effort we are holding the new damage model is helpful to take a few AAA hits on the IL2.

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16 minutes ago, JaffaCake said:

(is it intended for them to be destroyed from the mission start?).

 

VVS did almost the same on map #3, the first German depot was 100% destroyed only few hours after the map start :happy: (and the second one was heavily damaged)

We took revenge on map #4 by striking hard :salute:

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49 minutes ago, JaffaCake said:

Very tough this round on soviet side without the depots (is it intended for them to be destroyed from the mission start?). With some valiant effort we are holding the new damage model is helpful to take a few AAA hits on the IL2.

it wasn't destroyed from the start of map. We destroyed it in the very beggining of the map.

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1 hour ago, =LG=Coldman said:

it wasn't destroyed from the start of map. We destroyed it in the very beggining of the map.

 

There were quite alive on Suturday. We made some raids on 109, 110 and one ju88 with 50 kg only (mission 166)

 

16 hours ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

Yet Axis bomber pilots FIRMLY dominate the TOP 5 list....   Hooray 2 ton bombs. I guess? :huh:

 

Same goes for the airfield of Erzovka. It was closed yesterday and the jobb was done by 3x109s and 2x110 with only 50kg bombs (2 sorties), so it can be done even with fighters, no need havy bombers. Requires coordination and a lot of luck of course (mission 175). I Think KOHAH and Reshetnikov can confirm this.

 

Nothing could be done if it was not for @xJammer who coordinated us. Great Respect to him. He understants a lot about the game the strategy and the TAW itself. We learned a lot because of him.  It is really fun to fly like this. 

 

Also many thanks to Serenity17 and Flash for the raid on the depots. Great, marvelous job.

 

Tnx

@Daedalos

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5 hours ago, -IRRE-Centx said:

 

2 ton bombs?
Taken from TAW manual :

2ton.png.54c7e7244dc1c69ba8ccb18c4939b534.png

 

So yes a German bomber have more bombs in total compared to a Pe-2, but since almost every bombers are taking Ju88 (for the speed), we only have 500kgs bombs if we want big calibers, no big fat ton bombs.

 

And the top 5 you're quoting is the top 5 of ALIVE bomber pilots. 
Look the top 5 bombers squads => 4 VSS squads, 1 German

Top 5 tank killers squads => 4 VSS squads, 1 German

 

2 hours ago, 335th_GRDaedalos said:

 

 

There were quite alive on Suturday. We made some raids on 109, 110 and one ju88 with 50 kg only (mission 166)

 

 

Same goes for the airfield of Erzovka. It was closed yesterday and the jobb was done by 3x109s and 2x110 with only 50kg bombs (2 sorties), so it can be done even with fighters, no need havy bombers. Requires coordination and a lot of luck of course (mission 175). I Think KOHAH and Reshetnikov can confirm this.

 

Nothing could be done if it was not for @xJammer who coordinated us. Great Respect to him. He understants a lot about the game the strategy and the TAW itself. We learned a lot because of him.  It is really fun to fly like this. 

 

Also many thanks to Serenity17 and Flash for the raid on the depots. Great, marvelous job.

 

Tnx

@Daedalos

 

O.k. Point taken on the LIVE pilots.  I applaud the stealth tactics of the pilots who have been able to hit VVS depots undetected with (sorry my original conversion math from metric to imperial units was off...) 4 ton bombs.  EDIT:  Sorry, I did misread the plane list for TAW.  Sc1000s are still in play though.  I'm not well-versed in He-111s and Ju88s but, how many can they carry?

 

Also, congratulations on your attack of the airfield. I agree for that you picked the right tools for the job. 

Also, congratulations to xJammer for having the wear-with-all to coordinate Axis on the raid. 

Speaking of xJammer though:

                                                          http://taw-server.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=37656&name=xJammer

How exactly does one go about destroying the single blister turret on a single Pe-2.87 twenty-seven times? Man, he really must hate those things.

Edited by =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ

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26 minutes ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

EDIT:  Sorry, I did misread the plane list for TAW.  Sc1000s are still in play though.  I'm not well-versed in He-111s and Ju88s but, how many can they carry?

 

He-111 can carry 2x1 ton bombs, but not from every airfields.
And He-111 is so slow compared to Ju88 that almost nobody uses it. It was mainly used during map #1 when we had no Ju88s.
Ju88 can't carry 1 ton bombs, only 500kgs (4x500kgs, so 2000kgs = 2 tons in total, but with a way smaller blast radius)

But Ju88 can also carry 4x250kgs, and multiple 50kgs bombs.

 

So basically 1 ton bombs are almost never used by the German side, except by Stukas (which can carry only one, and are basically flying targets too...)
 

Edited by -IRRE-Centx

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1 minute ago, -IRRE-Centx said:

 

He-111 can carry 2x1 ton bombs, but not from every airfields.
And He-111 is so slow compared to Ju88 that almost nobody uses it. It was mainly used during maps #1 when we had no Ju88s.
Ju88 can't carry 1 ton bombs, only 500kgs (4x500kgs, so 2000kgs = 2 tons in total, but with a way smaller blast radius)

 

So basically 1 ton bombs are almost never used by the German side, except by Stukas (which can carry only one, and are basically flying targets too...)
 

 Well your top five live pilots disagree about the 111.  Ju-88 still carries 2x as much as max load Pe-2. 

But.... upon looking at a certain pilot's anti-depot raids....  I'm seeing ground kill numbers against facilities totaling 3x what the actual sortie log reports. This is on multiple sorties. Every single anti-depot sortie on this player's list reflects this.  There's even one reporting 72 ground kills with the sortie list showing around 23.  That's even 3x better than the average high-success runs of your best He-111 pilots who top out at 30+ on a good sortie.

  

Maybe you're right.  Maybe bomb loads are balanced.  Maybe VVS lost depots so fast because the server is over-reporting player's damage output.  

 

Maybe someday we can get balanced teams over all time zones too so there's enough to actually defend against Axis and VVS raids going to the depots instead of BOTH sides scrambling to put out the dumpster fires that were started during the respective time zones they were under-manned.

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19 minutes ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

 Well your top five live pilots disagree about the 111.  Ju-88 still carries 2x as much as max load Pe-2. 

But.... upon looking at a certain pilot's anti-depot raids....  I'm seeing ground kill numbers against facilities totaling 3x what the actual sortie log reports. This is on multiple sorties. Every single anti-depot sortie on this player's list reflects this.  There's even one reporting 72 ground kills with the sortie list showing around 23.  That's even 3x better than the average high-success runs of your best He-111 pilots who top out at 30+ on a good sortie.

  

Maybe you're right.  Maybe bomb loads are balanced.  Maybe VVS lost depots so fast because the server is over-reporting player's damage output.  

 

Maybe someday we can get balanced teams over all time zones too so there's enough to actually defend against Axis and VVS raids going to the depots instead of BOTH sides scrambling to put out the dumpster fires that were started during the respective time zones they were under-manned.

 

 

1-ton bombs are pretty incredible all things considered. TAW reports building damage at 3x the actual buildings destroyed. Why? I have no idea. In any case, pe2 right now is the hands down best bomber in the game with the amount of damage it can tank. As you well are aware my last 110 sortie against you resulted in likely 30-40 20mm hits against both of the pe2s and last one had to be taken down with a ram anyway.

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31 minutes ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

Maybe VVS lost depots so fast because the server is over-reporting player's damage output. 

 

Completely wrong.

 

Just for your knowledge:

Yes a hangar or an industrial building is counted as 3 ground kills, that's how TAW rewards bombers (it works on airfield buildings too by the way, and it counts x3 for VVS too if you ask)

But in order to destroy a depot, you have to destroy EVERY building on it.

So 3x kills reward or not, it doesn't matter at all, since you have to completely delete the depot from the map anyway.

 

 

Edited by -IRRE-Centx

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18 minutes ago, -IRRE-Centx said:

 

Completely wrong.

 

Just for your knowledge:

Yes a hangar or an industrial building is counted as 3 ground kills, that's how TAW rewards bombers (it works on airfield buildings too by the way, and it counts x3 for VVS too if you ask)

But in order to destroy a depot, you have to destroy EVERY building on it.

So 3x kills reward or not, it doesn't matter at all, since you have to completely delete the depot from the map anyway.

 

 

OK. I did look at my own sorties and see you are right.  Apologies. 

 

However, I've seen depots left with buildings standing that went down when the mission rolled, so there is a number calculation involved.  You certainly do not have to 100% a facility on the in-game map.  You only need to get it past the post-mission calculation threshold. 

 

Anyway, 72 ground kills in one sortie and other missions that are 3x higher in GKs than any other top ground killer is impressive.  @xJammer enjoy the #1 ground kill slot you'll apparently be reaching soon.  I guess the Bf-110 isn't as weak or useless as some others seem to think.  Sorry, I lost my cool, too.  I still think on-purpose ramming is dirty pool and a bit douche-y, but there's no rules or un-realism about it so... golf clap for you!  :good:

Edited by =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ

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1 hour ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

how many can they carry?

 

Ju 88 can carry 2 x 1000 Kg although that loadout is blocked in TAW, it can carry 4 x 500 Kg + 2 x 250 Kg which is very good, 2500 Kg of bombs and you can disperse the damage.

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