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Tactical Air War

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19 hours ago, StG77_HvB said:

 

It appeared to me that at peak hours the numbers were fairly balanced, and judging from the map outcomes, Blue consistently outplayed Red during those times - every day - the entire campaign. During U.S. evening prime time, Blue had a numerical advantage more often than not, and fielded a very impressive roster of fighter pilots. We would look at the list and see Sinerox, Geo, DirtyRotnFlieger, Polo, SuperEtendard, etc., and just groan.

 

I suspect there is a psychological tipping point, when the numerical imbalance hits a point around 2.5:1, where the players on the lesser team drop out or refuse to play when they log on and see the numbers, and players on the team with greater numbers really pile on to take advantage, making it quickly 4:1 or worse.

Sorry about that HvB, you know I'd escort you if I was allowed. 

On 6/20/2018 at 2:42 PM, =LG=Padre said:

We planned to add a new mission for transport aircraft. Medical evacuation. Unfortunately, due to the lack of time and laziness, these types of missions will be available from the next campaign. Personally, I'd rather see Li-2 as a new plane than Po-2 as the first. We also plan to create a more historical plane set. However, there is a small gap in  planes( Yak-1 earlier version for example) If you have any solutions, we will be happy to hear. Now however the plane set will not change much.

Registration will be available in a few days and  I suggest to set a whisper on teamspeak, with friendly teams. 

 

This time =LG= fly on the Bluewaffe side. 

 

 

SS2.jpg

As for the f4 and mig stuff on the second map, I'm completely fine with flying the f2. Its better in someways to the mig any way. The f4 seems a bit over kill... either that or make the f4 cost like 5 cms or something like that if possible.(it was around just in small numbers) The same for the other rare planes that were available in small number at the time period like the fn on map 7?

 

Edited by SCG_Sinerox
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1 час назад, SCG_Sinerox сказал:

As for the f4 and mig stuff on the second map, I'm completely fine with flying the f2. Its better in someways to the mig any way. The f4 seems a bit over kill... either that or make the f4 cost like 5 cms or something like that if possible.(it was around just in small numbers) The same for the other rare planes that were available in small number at the time period like the fn on map 7?

 

 

Please cut the 109 f4 from the map N2. There are not so many maps for early planes...  Please make it like 109E7 vs i16 (20mm eq. for all maps), Mc202 vs P40, Mig3 (Spit 5) vs 109f2.

 

Will be great to see the Spit 5 AND the Mig3 for the maps N2 (Only Mig3 here), N3, N4, N5, N6, N7, N8.

 

P.S: I hope that the number of the VVS players will be high enough... Going to play at AXIS side by the next round.

Edited by Krauz
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3 hours ago, Krauz said:

 

Please cut the 109 f4 from the map N2. There are not so many maps for early planes...  Please make it like 109E7 vs i16 (20mm eq. for all maps), Mc202 vs P40, Mig3 (Spit 5) vs 109f2.

 

Will be great to see the Spit 5 AND the Mig3 for the maps N2 (Only Mig3 here), N3, N4, N5, N6, N7, N8.

 

P.S: I hope that the number of the VVS players will be high enough... Going to play at AXIS side by the next round.

Spit was not around during that time so its a no go. Whole point is to make it historic not balanced. F4 was there so it should be there, limiting it in rare quantities is the problem. Should you not include it at all because it was in small number or make it hard to get because it was in small numbers or something else? Thats the question. Mig3 was also a very rare aircraft when you look at the numbers aswell.

PS: Spit was not around in the SU, it was still only in the UK or commonwealth countries. It wasnt until 42 or 43 the soviets received the spit

Edited by SCG_Sinerox
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Thanks LGs for yet another superb campaign.

 

The only downside was the fact that I was so much "on duty" lately that i couldn't enjoy it to the full :(

1 hour ago, SCG_Sinerox said:

Spit was not around during that time so its a no go. Whole point is to make it historic not balanced. F4 was there so it should be there, limiting it in rare quantities is the problem. Should you not include it at all because it was in small number or make it hard to get because it was in small numbers or something else? Thats the question. Mig3 was also a very rare aircraft when you look at the numbers aswell.

PS: Spit was not around in the SU, it was still only in the UK or commonwealth countries. It wasnt until 42 or 43 the soviets received the spit

 

Whatch out what You wish for, if LGs will go for fully historical , the blue side might be reduced to max 15 slots allowed to simulate the historical numbers superiority on the red side ;) 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Carl_infar said:

Whatch out what You wish for, if LGs will go for fully historical , the blue side might be reduced to max 15 slots allowed to simulate the historical numbers superiority on the red side ;) 

 

Just in case you are in one way or another serious about this.

 

If you go down this path you might just as well argue that many disadvantages should be there as well. Sorry guys, everyone with more than 100h playtime is not allowed to fly red. Just for the record, you know that i am a strong advocate for limited player numbers, especially because it would be a win win situation.

 

A sim can only go so far when it comes to historical accuracy in a multiplayer setting. Trying to be as accurate as possible when it comes to the technical aspect is already pushing it (and we are still far away from it in my opinion). Going down the road that you are heading will just end the discussion in a circle jerk.

 

 

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3 часа назад, SCG_Sinerox сказал:

Spit was not around during that time so its a no go.

 

 

It makes not a big difference. The main purpose to add it (Merlin 46) is just to balance the both sides.

 

Начало участия в боевых действиях: зима 1941 (в битве за Кубань - весна 1943)

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2 minutes ago, Krauz said:

 

It makes not a big difference. The main purpose to add it (Merlin 46) is just to balance the both sides.

 

Начало участия в боевых действиях: зима 1941 (в битве за Кубань - весна 1943)

Personally, I don't feel threatend by the plane, and its quite fun to fly. It just was'nt introduced in the SU until 43... LG is trying to make the planeset historical as I understand and that would do the opposite

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6 hours ago, SCG_Sinerox said:

Spit was not around during that time so its a no go. Whole point is to make it historic not balanced. F4 was there so it should be there, limiting it in rare quantities is the problem. Should you not include it at all because it was in small number or make it hard to get because it was in small numbers or something else? Thats the question. Mig3 was also a very rare aircraft when you look at the numbers aswell.

PS: Spit was not around in the SU, it was still only in the UK or commonwealth countries. It wasnt until 42 or 43 the soviets received the spit


Thing with the 1941 F-4 is that it was limited to 1.3 ata, and the plane gains quite a bit of performance using the higher regimes, and if you manage the intermediate settings, (1.37 ata for example) it can last for a good while.

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On planetset many things are possible and not need to be historical.

 

for example, this is one suggestion sended some moths ago looking for posible lines , the base try to be historical but on ammo setting u find some restrictions for balance.

 

 

 

 

PLANETSET LINEAS.jpg

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Hi all,

 

Thank you for a very nice TAW campaign. Looking forward to the next one. If I may, I would like to say that, it is my believe that the current plane set is quite balanced and it is working well enough for both sides. In this TAW the problem was, I think, the way that was adopted by team red  to achieve the goal and not the plane set. In fact that was quite noticeable during all maps by many blue pilots in the blue chat-room. I do not think that special plane set could change the result. And the point is not to make the win a easy situation but to play a little bit strategically. I will remind you that with the same plane set the two previous TAW were won by red side.

 

But this is my personal point of view.   

 

thx again

@Daedalos

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Of course, planetset is not the main reason to win or lose the map. It just  can helps a little in one or other direction.

 

Many things changed along editions *:


- Chat alert to teammates , for better attacks coordinated . Exclusive blue team.

- The same % of  both sides to be captured, at the beginning the reds had less possibilities.

- Decreased effect of the columns, at the beginning the columns was basically the key.

- Increase the effect of damage over factories, now the key is in damage airfields for capture , and factories for limit resources.

- Super paratroopers skill. Exclusive for the blue team.

 

Many red victories in the past were due to attrition, it happened when the tank column was more relevant in the game and, of course, thanks to the inability of the blue side to stop us ... from the beginning, the blue team has enough tecnical advantage to win all the editions. . and most of the time favorable quorums ... but they can not do it.

 

Of course it is necessary to recognize a good job on the blue side. But we can not compare the last edition with other editions. The score is clear, blue has too easy to win this edition. And 7: 1 is not the result of better gameplay and better coordination, on the one blue team and the opposite on the  red team.

 

Anyway, it's just my point of view.

 

I do not care if I will lost 8: 0 in the next edition. I think I know what we are playing, how was this TAW from the beginning and how it grew. I enjoy all edtions .

 

*Many of this help, was needed, because allways blue team was losing, And this not good for a Game.  Alternance is needed. Maybe its time for red team, to  lost next  8 or 9 editions , before we can find the balance. Im sure isnt easy.

 

Of course, big THX for TAW guys, amazing server. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, 666GIAP_Tumu said:

- The same % of  both sides to be captured, at the beginning the reds had less possibilities.

 

 

Is this actually true?

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19 hours ago, Operation_Ivy said:

 

Just in case you are in one way or another serious about this.

 

If you go down this path you might just as well argue that many disadvantages should be there as well. Sorry guys, everyone with more than 100h playtime is not allowed to fly red. Just for the record, you know that i am a strong advocate for limited player numbers, especially because it would be a win win situation.

 

A sim can only go so far when it comes to historical accuracy in a multiplayer setting. Trying to be as accurate as possible when it comes to the technical aspect is already pushing it (and we are still far away from it in my opinion). Going down the road that you are heading will just end the discussion in a circle jerk.

 

 

 

If we're going 'Full real'.........

Lets just have one life!! lol

And i do believe one side should never out number the other side by more than 3:2 in either bomber or fighters,

so if there are enough fighters you have to take a bomber/transport, (then you could never have 50 fighter at one time, on one side) is this possible to do?

 

Anyway, loved this campaign, so i donated.

Already waiting for the next one.

Thanks LG and all who made it happen...

 

(seriously though, if you're killed you should lose your planes and points (but keep your medals and rank, you earned them!)

And restart your life with 1 base plane)

Just a thought!!

Edited by JG5_Schuck
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2 hours ago, 666GIAP_Tumu said:

Many red victories in the past were due to attrition, it happened when the tank column was more relevant in the game and, of course, thanks to the inability of the blue side to stop us ... from the beginning, the blue team has enough tecnical advantage to win all the editions. . and most of the time favorable quorums ... but they can not do it.

 

Tumu you are a great pilot and I like a lot the way you and your team mates are flying. We have met a lot of times before, even back to the old days of il2 and ADW and I hope to met you a lot more in the future. I'd like only to suggest one think. Please don't dive into "false" details about which team has better that or is worst on that. This is highly subjective and everybody can have an other point of view based only to personal experience, fact that for me it lacks evidence of proof.

 

They are facts and there are wishes. There is a great FACT and this is that planes are being flown by pilots. Any technological advantage as you named it (if there is any, which I doubt it) can be eliminated by team effort. Now everybody of us can wish for many things, planesets, quorums ask the devs for changing the FM or DM but the fact remain a fact. Team effort.   

 

thx and see you in air

@Daedalos

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Please lock the skins for next edition. Even if we then lose our historical skins that is much better than having the possibility of "cheating" by using bright custom skins that help with recognition. (maybe not cheating in strict sense of word but if you think about it you will hopefully understand my point.)

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2 minutes ago, LLv44_Mprhead said:

Please lock the skins for next edition. Even if we then lose our historical skins that is much better than having the possibility of "cheating" by using bright custom skins that help with recognition. (maybe not cheating in strict sense of word but if you think about it you will hopefully understand my point.)

Don't!!! There is always 'that guy'. Don't let him spoil it for you -- may he be king in his pink/transparent  world!

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Yes Ivy at the begining , % for red was 1/3 and % for blue was 1/2 , this percentage are totally in favor for reds and they helped a lot  for win,  via atrittion many maps on past.  Argument ;  red pilots bailed  over home.  The result on campaing terms  was a big help for reds.

 

Thx for your kind words Daedalos. All my respect for you

 

Im sure,  use my non-native lenguage dont help us nothing .... i suppose i be too rude on my way . I agree with u, is a personal opinion, subjective  of course. I agree , fact is planes are flying by pìlots and good teamwork can supply  posibles leaks of tecnology. Really  i agree to this.

 

The main thing ( of my post ) is evolution of results along TAW editions... this is a Fact ,   all of us can check.  From start to aprox edition 10 , reds archive many victories.  Is a Fact , many aspects of competion can be tuned . And that was done.  Why? because reds win almost rounds.  Around  11-13 edition , i think some was ended scoring 4:4 ( draw) on terms of score . that was the most balanced editions. And now score is  7:1 .  I ask to me why is posible? and i find some reassons .

 

But of course i can be wrong

 

:)

 

addition :


For try be objective, the start point is suposse both teams are totally equal on terms of skills and teamwork. In a totally balanced situation, scores will be allways 4:4 , but some editions sure one team do better than other... scoring maybe move around 5:3 . Score 7:1 for me revels something more than simply better skills or teamwork. Talk us about something happened. Maybe some of actual conditions . make to easy this score.

Edited by 666GIAP_Tumu
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1 hour ago, LLv44_Mprhead said:

Please lock the skins for next edition. Even if we then lose our historical skins that is much better than having the possibility of "cheating" by using bright custom skins that help with recognition. (maybe not cheating in strict sense of word but if you think about it you will hopefully understand my point.)

To have friendly planes shown bright red or pink or whatever is considered to be very much of to be cheating! Not acceptable at all!

Edited by LLv44_Damixu

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59 minutes ago, LLv44_Mprhead said:

Please lock the skins for next edition. Even if we then lose our historical skins that is much better than having the possibility of "cheating" by using bright custom skins that help with recognition. (maybe not cheating in strict sense of word but if you think about it you will hopefully understand my point.)

 

Please dont listen to this guy ...

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I see the solution for skin cheating: 

 

To have 1C approved skin database where someone in authority checks the proposed skins and approves if the content meets the critera of being historically accurately (enough) or rejects these bright red fooleries. All MP servers will check the approval of skins from the official 1C approved database.

 

1C as a working body does not to have to spend their precious time on this trivial folly, but appoint some persons from the community to serve on this posession to check and approve a skin to be applicable or not. 

Edited by LLv44_Damixu
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25 minutes ago, SCG_Riksen said:

 

Please dont listen to this guy ...

 

Ofc listen to me! Or do you actually think that it's ok to have bright red (or pink or something) skins for your squadron that you can recognize miles away (thus giving you an advance of seeing immediately who is friend and who is foe)? When the mechanics atm is so that everyone who doesn't have that skin will see it as default skin?

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Please don´t lock skins. I don´t know why anyone would even want that. Let me have my fun with skins damn it.

40 minutes ago, LLv44_Mprhead said:

 

Ofc listen to me! Or do you actually think that it's ok to have bright red (or pink or something) skins for your squadron that you can recognize miles away (thus giving you an advance of seeing immediately who is friend and who is foe)? When the mechanics atm is so that everyone who doesn't have that skin will see it as default skin?

It is just a game at the end of the day. No need to lock everything out to make things the least fun possible in the name of "balance".

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21 minutes ago, Psyrion said:

 

It is just a game at the end of the day. No need to lock everything out to make things the least fun possible in the name of "balance".

 

It's not in the name of "balance", it's in the name of "fairness".

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12 minutes ago, LLv44_Mprhead said:

 

It's not in the name of "balance", it's in the name of "fairness".

Is it fair to propose locking the now over 17Gb of skins I have collected (thanks to everyone who made them btw ;) ) just because you saw somewhere that someone is using some colored skins to gain a slight advantage? Can you even recall one instance where bright colored skins made a difference?

In fact everyone who uses custom skins puts themselves at a dissadvantage on winter maps.

 

I don´t know where this idea comes from that you have to lock everything trivial out and ruin the fun for all the genuine people that just like their planes to look different once in a while.

You take Multiplayer way to seriously sometimes guys...

-rant over-

:biggrin:   :salute:

Edited by Psyrion

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In my opinion, TAW is supposed to be a competitive environment. People take it serious. 264 pages in this thread are a testament to that. Giving enemy planes (as far as thats possible idk) bright colored skins is not just a slight trivial advantage, it is huge. I would love to have the possibility that TAW can regulate which skins are allowed but i am afraid that this isn't possible.

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1 hour ago, LLv44_Mprhead said:

 

Ofc listen to me! Or do you actually think that it's ok to have bright red (or pink or something) skins for your squadron that you can recognize miles away (thus giving you an advance of seeing immediately who is friend and who is foe)? When the mechanics atm is so that everyone who doesn't have that skin will see it as default skin?

 

I dont think it is ok but our group uses our custom historical skins and we would like to keep using them. Even in the scenario you describe, there is not much of a difference than using lights in combat. The so called advantage is minimal.

 

Keep it locked in ur server but dont start this BS here too ... TAW is fine with skins unlocked.

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Does it really matter? The pilots that are bad enough or have to resort to that shit anyway are'nt going to make a difference. When you look at the guys on the leader boards they all fly fair already and don't pull shit like that. At a distance of 3-10 km you can't even see the colors, its just a black dot. It does however add a ton of immersion and... attachment if you have a custom historical skin. It feels like your flying "your plane" It's the plane you have fought through hell with and achieved great feats. No don't add skin restrictions just because some jerks want to ruin it.

 

You can try to remove "White 14" (my plane) from the sky but she won't go down without a fight!

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21 minutes ago, Operation_Ivy said:

In my opinion, TAW is supposed to be a competitive environment. People take it serious. 264 pages in this thread are a testament to that. Giving enemy planes (as far as thats possible idk) bright colored skins is not just a slight trivial advantage, it is huge. I would love to have the possibility that TAW can regulate which skins are allowed but i am afraid that this isn't possible.

You do not give enemy planes bright colored skins. That would be madness.

What people want to ban is that certain groups/squadrons use bright colored skins for themselves to make it easier to spot their squadmates.
Yes, doing that purposely is a dick move in my opinion. But it would also be a dick move to spoil everybody elses fun (wings, finnish) just because some people do that.

If it were against the rules on TAW (which it isnt) then those people should be punished for that, not everyone.

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Yes Psyrion! We should'nt be punished for the actions of a few jerks. If you can't handle someone being able to have the slightest, smallest advantage then go on WOL and Finnish. I at least have learned how to fight with disadvantages as you do when your a fighter pilot. If I fight against someone using bright skins, well I'm worried about way more things, Energy, My 6, My situational awarness, and Energy awareness.

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If people are being jerks and using 'cheat' skins (for whatever definition of 'cheating' you like...bright skins or whatever) and then they are stupid enough to post videos of themselves doing this, and the community agrees beforehand that this is cheating...then the jerks should be banned. But as far as I know, there is no current statement around acceptable skins and unless people are stupid and post videos of themselves cheating we will all never know.

 

This seems like something that would affect the small amount of players who want to be jerks. Banning skins would affect many many players who want to fly a historical or squadron skin. Seems like a high price to pay to stop people cheating.

 

(Is the server setting just "Custom skins on/off" or is there any more granularity to that? If we had either a filename or SHA hash of the skin we could make a database of approved skins....but this is a bunch of work again just to prevent people being jerks).

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Tell me guys what`s wrong in having own skins, to better recognize your teammates? Do you really guys are thinking, that we are cheating?
Where these pilots cheaters?

Manfred and Lothar Richthofen
rotebaron.jpg
df04cd6889836fe1ab06c05a86fb03c2.jpg

Oberleutnant Klaus Faber — JV44 Würger-Staffel, Ainring Germany, May 1944

tail-dragon-171216-5a35617e2acb5.jpg

Developers I-16 red skin
bert.jpg

Mustang D-Day stripes
58d3fca9e376022b69e10d550a814ccf.jpg
Erich Hartmann, Black Tullip
183af0449b42406bf2a0ec032211964d.jpg

Saburo Sakai, Tainan Kokutai
IMG_0159.jpg
Alonzo, your words are simply insulting us.
And, as you can all see, custom skins are not forbidden in our server.

Edited by =LG=Piciu
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20 minutes ago, =LG=Piciu said:

Tell me guys what`s wrong in having own skins, to better recognize your teammates? Do you really guys are thinking, that we are cheating?
Where these pilots cheaters?

 

While i already said that i don't really care, you can't really compare it to reality. Everyone was able to see the red airplane of Richthofen for example, not just his teammates who downloaded the same skin.

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Yes, we have our own skins and we're shooting parachutes, we're very bloodthirsty!!!

 

Edited by =LG=Cygi

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9 hours ago, Psyrion said:

Please don´t lock skins. I don´t know why anyone would even want that. Let me have my fun with skins damn it.

It is just a game at the end of the day. No need to lock everything out to make things the least fun possible in the name of "balance".

 

It's not balance. It's to stop cheaters from creating see through skins.

 

I would like custom skins gone as well. My squadron uses customs skins. Still don't care. It has been exploited with players creating a skin that they can see through. I don't mind the bright colours if that is your thing. It's just the cheating possibility and that's the end of it for me.

 

My custom skin shows up red. So does my wingmans. The creator used red as the base paint and it shows though. I have red rims on my F2.   :P

 

my 2c

Edited by 7./JG26_Smokejumper
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Bright colored skins is one thing, but giving people the ability to see through their own aircraft...  That's pretty bad.  A lot of guys/squadrons really enjoy their custom skins, though. 

 

Either way you lose.  Better to pick the smaller loss in that case.

Edited by 7.GShAP/Silas
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@ =LG=Piciu I think the problem people are bringing up is that their are some individuals who are editing the enemies skin folder to make them bright colors and easier to see. It's a very slight advantage, as for Manfred atleast, he wanted the enemy pilot to fear him, and know who was on their 6 when they looked back. 

 

I'm completely with you in that Custom skins should be allowed. I support it because of the small advantage it gives the person who is cheating, that it doesn't justify restricting all those other pilots who love that aspect of TAW. I love flying with my custom 109 skins that were made by Riksen who puts so much attention to detail. Let's not let a few ruin it for everyone. That's just playing into what they want!

#FreedomOfSkins

 

#StopTheCensorship

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