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=LG=Kathon

Tactical Air War

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1 hour ago, =LG=Kathon said:

No  bikinis, no changes, sorry ;(

 

The different solution would be randomly  rotating AA by about 90 degree so Blue and Red AA would have to rotate  90 before start firing.

 

What do you think?


I think the rotation of the AA guns randomly will make the columns much worse for both sides. Unduly punishing players who fly solo or in groups of 2-3. This tactic would always require a AA dragger/sacrificial lamb. 

 

Wouldn't just removing the GAZ AA be easier than having to set up a script for randomly rotating the 20mm AA cars? 

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11 hours ago, StG77_Kondor said:


I think the rotation of the AA guns randomly will make the columns much worse for both sides. Unduly punishing players who fly solo or in groups of 2-3. This tactic would always require a AA dragger/sacrificial lamb. 

 

Wouldn't just removing the GAZ AA be easier than having to set up a script for randomly rotating the 20mm AA cars? 

 

 

It wont really bother reds that much as AAA leashing is usually standard practice for even randoms. Only thing it will do really is that more VVS will ask each other to leash AA, it happens already pretty often and is standard order of the day.

 

Seeing that i can usually take out all AAA from column with single IL2 if left alone for long enough time, and much faster and reliably if there is someone flying wild weasel, the AAA clearing is never an issue for VVS. 

 

I remember, few TAW's ago, on the last map, some random Russians in TS teamed up, and went and literally cleared all AAA from airfield, and took it down to 100% damage in one run.

Fun was had with returning Axis planes that did not know what was going on.  

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Hi!

I wonder why I was kicked all of a sudden from mission last night.

I was flying in Rotte to Target, the "Rottenflieger" was kicked as well. Later on it was immpossible to reconnect again.

Any ideas?

 

yours

v.Greiff

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I think AA must be like as is.

Rotating AAA and Force team work maybe is a good idea.

thx

 

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, StG77_Kondor said:


I think the rotation of the AA guns randomly will make the columns much worse for both sides. Unduly punishing players who fly solo or in groups of 2-3. This tactic would always require a AA dragger/sacrificial lamb. 

 

Wouldn't just removing the GAZ AA be easier than having to set up a script for randomly rotating the 20mm AA cars? 

We have found this out a few times . The dragging of AAA.!

The Sacrificial lamb or as we say taking one for the team .

Oh and can we  please stop the shoulder shooting its very off putting .🐖 I know no one can see anything until some one pulls the trigger. !!!

Then a swarm of player Bees come from nowhere to join in on the fun . lol . 

Edited by II./JG77_Con

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1 hour ago, II./JG77_Con said:

We have found this out a few times . The dragging of AAA.!

The Sacrificial lamb or as we say taking one for the team .

 

Dragging AA isn't very dangerous if you keep maneuvering a bit. I think this was discussed/explained a couple of pages back

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On 6/28/2018 at 1:52 PM, =L/R=Coldman said:

And this is short clip from that Mission from my perspective. Enjoy

 

That's a Great video . But didnt  Fallschirmjager jump head first ...lol......... love it 

Edited by II./JG77_Con

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21 minutes ago, Operatsiya_Ivy said:

 

Dragging AA isn't very dangerous if you keep maneuvering a bit. I think this was discussed/explained a couple of pages back

Dont fly straight lines because AI cant predict non linear trajectories 

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Looking at the server it has now - in 12 hours - gone from an even split of half-half of the map to total map domination by blue, and looking at the stats from the missions the player numbers aren't in serious blame. Although red has been outnumbered all night it hasn't been by an insane margin.

 

What does seem to be at fault is the way tank columns work.

 

For four missions in a row (68-71) the blues had two tank columns attacking simultaneously. During mission 72 they had one column, and now during 73 they are back to two. Simply put there's no chance in hell for the reds to be even CLOSE to being able to stop the attack. They can't even pretend. One tank column is difficult but doable when outnumbered 2:1, but two tank columns are impossible. They're almost impossible even with 1:1 numbers.

 

If tank columns never ever halt, not even after taking airfields/cities then there's almost no point in even trying to attack them. No amount of tank bombing will ever be enough. The transition from mission 68-71 is a good example: During mission #68 one of the two blue tank columns are attacking Dyatlovo. That mission they succeed in taking in it, but already in mission #69 there's a new tank column attacking Brykovo. That tank column was however promptly beaten (close to Brykovo and no blue AF close enough to stop it), but in mission #70 there's a brand spanking new tank column going on Brykovo again!

 

Meanwhile during #68 a blue tank column is heading for Solodilovo. During #69 it's so closed that the AF is locked down. In mission #70 the Solodilovo is taken, and what happens...? The same mission a new blue tank column spawns just outside of Nesterovo, and in mission #71 Nesterovo is locked down. By some sheer magical intervention by Stalin's moustache and the ghost of Lenin the tank column is destroyed in mission #72, but then... then comes #73! Brand new column again!

 

Oh, and what happened further south during that magical intervention? Red tanks attacking Dyatlovo during mission #72 were destroyed, and blue tanks finally took Brykovo (those dudes that spawned during mission #70), and immediately after the tanks failed to take the locked-down Dyatlovo a new blue tank column spawns between Dyatlovo and Klin.

 

 

There simply is no breathing room during tank attacks. No breathing room whatsoever. They are coming so often and so rapidly that it's basically impossible to stop them. This effect has been seen earlier campaigns too, but I've never seen it happen to this degree before. Maybe nothing in the code has changed and it's pure randomness that it has become this extreme this time, but it's worth giving a look.

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I found this interesting German paratrooper training film.

Alas, no audio or bikinis.

 

 

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I'm curious... after a ju 52 drop paratroopers...  ¿ have any utility kill them* before touch earth?

*paratroopers i mean

thx

 

 

 

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nice today experience,

 

i was  landing, the wheels of my pe2 at 50cm over the ground , speed ok, no ennemy fighter, all clear and..  il2.exe crashes

 

finally : ground streak lost and back to sergant 0/100 xp, hard rules but it is the rule :(

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Are stats working if captured ..??  or bail . 

30 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Tumu said:

I'm curious... after a ju 52 drop paratroopers...  ¿ have any utility kill them* before touch earth?

*paratroopers i mean

thx

 

 

 

Are you saying to kill paras while in chutes ..... not nice ....lol 

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2 minutes ago, II./JG77_Con said:

Are you saying to kill paras while in chutes ..... not nice ....lol 

 

Time to heat up the good old chute-killing debate again 🧐

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34 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Tumu said:

I'm curious... after a ju 52 drop paratroopers...  ¿ have any utility kill them* before touch earth?

*paratroopers i mean

thx

 

 

 

Yes you can kill them if you want not sure if on the ground  (few sec after they dissapear) sometimes if paratrooper fall to the trees dies and not count as landed.

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8 hours ago, von_Greiff said:

Hi!

I wonder why I was kicked all of a sudden from mission last night.

I was flying in Rotte to Target, the "Rottenflieger" was kicked as well. Later on it was immpossible to reconnect again.

Any ideas?

 

yours

v.Greiff

Probably LG guys were coming on server and the kick fest stars randomly. Leader of LLv24 got kicked yday too, just during attack organisation. But it’s their server and organisation, understandable doing that, as server is full prime time. 

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46 minutes ago, LLv34_adexu said:

Probably LG guys were coming on server and the kick fest stars randomly. Leader of LLv24 got kicked yday too, just during attack organisation. But it’s their server and organisation, understandable doing that, as server is full prime time. 

 

RGRT, Sir!

I can take this, thanks for information.

 

yours

v.Greiff

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On 6/28/2018 at 4:43 PM, StG77_HvB said:

This is a long-standing discrepancy I hope can be fixed.

 

Contents: no bikinis, lots of data and analysis, a little profanity, and a suggestion. Custom skins have full swastikas.

 

 

Hi H.

I think that you forget mention is: blues had the Ju88 since map #2, reds had the A20 until map 6.

I know that you are trying to do the same runs that you did as red, but life is not fare, you have to find someone that distract the AAA.

But don´t worry we are going to change the ammo on the AAA to shot candies and bubbles then you can made a sweet and soft bomb attack.

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7 hours ago, LLv34_adexu said:

Probably LG guys were coming on server and the kick fest stars randomly. Leader of LLv24 got kicked yday too, just during attack organisation. But it’s their server and organisation, understandable doing that, as server is full prime time. 

LG is not kicking people that already on the server, for making a room for themselves. Information about someone kicked and banned is when a slot on the server is locked (for StG2 or LG members*), and new people are trying to join. Again, it's not kicking players already on the server.

 

*LG recruits (L/R) don't apply. 🙃

Edited by =L/R=Mad_Mikhael

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8 hours ago, LLv34_adexu said:

Probably LG guys were coming on server and the kick fest stars randomly. Leader of LLv24 got kicked yday too, just during attack organisation. But it’s their server and organisation, understandable doing that, as server is full prime time. 

How could you even think like that ;) 

 

If you checked von_Greiff sorties you would noticed that he have flown only one sortie so far where 10 min after take off mission just ended. 

 

Oh, and check this sortie: =LG=Flogger kicked after 2 AK... yesterday too.

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=13324&name==LG=Flogger

Edited by =LG=Kathon

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3 hours ago, 666GIAP_Necathor said:

But don´t worry we are going to change the ammo on the AAA to shot candies and bubbles then you can made a sweet and soft bomb attack.

 

Thanks, Nec. I may just fly Red fighters exclusively and focus mostly on bombers behind my own lines. Say, you need a wingman???

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3 hours ago, 666GIAP_Necathor said:

Hi H.

I think that you forget mention is: blues had the Ju88 since map #2, reds had the A20 until map 6.

I know that you are trying to do the same runs that you did as red, but life is not fare, you have to find someone that distract the AAA.


Spot On.

So to this:
 

On 6/29/2018 at 1:30 PM, StG77_Kondor said:

I think the rotation of the AA guns randomly will make the columns much worse for both sides. Unduly punishing players who fly solo or in groups of 2-3. 

 

Well, if solo pilots or 2 of them can´t take a tank column...great. Wasn't TAW all about teamwork? Or does it encourage Rambo Style attacks? 

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4 hours ago, StG77_HvB said:

 

Thanks, Nec. I may just fly Red fighters exclusively and focus mostly on bombers behind my own lines. Say, you need a wingman???

It´s your call, you can do what every you want.

Edited by 666GIAP_Necathor

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On 6/29/2018 at 6:30 PM, StG77_Kondor said:


I think the rotation of the AA guns randomly will make the columns much worse for both sides. Unduly punishing players who fly solo or in groups of 2-3. This tactic would always require a AA dragger/sacrificial lamb. 

 

Wouldn't just removing the GAZ AA be easier than having to set up a script for randomly rotating the 20mm AA cars? 

  In this TAW a warning for blue has been enabled when there are other blue attacking positions, and they can go to help, is it also necessary to disarm the columns of light AAA ?, I do not think that stimulates teamwork. This is starting to look like a competition on demand.
Where is all that historical realism that has served to put F4 on map 2? Did the Russian columns go without a light AAA?

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It only means that there is a severe weak point in Blue columns i.e. the rear. Meaning you are much less likely to be damaged or shotdown when attacking like that as red. Therefore there's obviously a pretty significant imbalance between attacking blue or red columns. Surely you do not think this should continue to be the case?

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35 minutes ago, LeLv30_Redwing said:

Bayeux Tapestry?

 

 

Yes, lets memes some TAW tapestries 😄

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ditched with motor hs on you own airfield ( it is easy, we have got only one :) ) = xp lost

is it a bug?

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4 hours ago, 7./JG26_Shadepiece said:

It only means that there is a severe weak point in Blue columns i.e. the rear. Meaning you are much less likely to be damaged or shotdown when attacking like that as red. Therefore there's obviously a pretty significant imbalance between attacking blue or red columns. Surely you do not think this should continue to be the case? 

Of course, the Russian material had advantages and disadvantages, on land and in the air, just like the German one.
What we can not do is play the historical realism and the balance of media as we are interested. I have not heard many blues vote to skip historical realism in favor of balance in the case of F4, for example.

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23 hours ago, 666GIAP_Necathor said:

Hi H.

I think that you forget mention is: blues had the Ju88 since map #2, reds had the A20 until map 6.

I know that you are trying to do the same runs that you did as red, but life is not fare, you have to find someone that distract the AAA.

But don´t worry we are going to change the ammo on the AAA to shot candies and bubbles then you can made a sweet and soft bomb attack.

 

Hola Neca :)

If you remember my post from a billion pages ago. I made the argument for A-20 for reds as soon as Map #3. Neither of us is advocating for all good things for Blue and all poopoo things for Red ;) . Just asking for things that are easily server controlled to be even for both teams. AFs are protected by same kind of AA, why can't tank columns? The argument of the video is that one side doesn't need AA dragger - and one side does. All because of the way AA is set up not same for both sides. 
 

 

Edited by StG77_Kondor

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6 hours ago, 7./JG26_Shadepiece said:

It only means that there is a severe weak point in Blue columns i.e. the rear. Meaning you are much less likely to be damaged or shotdown when attacking like that as red. Therefore there's obviously a pretty significant imbalance between attacking blue or red columns. Surely you do not think this should continue to be the case?

 

 

As the columns are stationary maybe easy fix is to turn a couple of the AA around to face the rear. I doubt that this would be such a dramatic issue where the columns moving. The search for a moving target I think would help a little in my opinion.

 

The other option is to request from the Devs that we can choose which way the gun is facing when it spawns.

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2 minutes ago, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

 

 

As the columns are stationary maybe easy fix is to turn a couple of the AA around to face the rear. I doubt that this would be such a dramatic issue where the columns moving. The search for a moving target I think would help a little in my opinion.

 

The other option is to request from the Devs that we can choose which way the gun is facing when it spawns.

That's what I was thinking, or at least along those lines.

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Was it common practice in WW2 for vehicles in a column to cover a given sector like they do now? Basically when stopped as they are represented in game shouldn't the AA guns be looking in different directions to begin with? If that is the case then shifting the trucks so the gun's forward looking arch is covering its sector would make sense, given engine constraints. So the truck at the front would cover 12 o'clock and the truck behind that one would cover 11 or 1 and so on down the line with the last truck covering 6. This seems to me a very basic and intuitive defensive plan. I don't know if this is historical or not but there is obviously some wiggle room on what is historical on this server.

Edited by Disarray

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28 minutes ago, Disarray said:

Was it common practice in WW2 for vehicles in a column to cover a given sector like they do now? Basically when stopped as they are represented in game shouldn't the AA guns be looking in different directions to begin with? If that is the case then shifting the trucks so the gun's forward looking arch is covering its sector would make sense, given engine constraints. So the truck at the front would cover 12 o'clock and the truck behind that one would cover 11 or 1 and so on down the line with the last truck covering 6. This seems to me a very basic and intuitive defensive plan. I don't know if this is historical or not but there is obviously some wiggle room on what is historical on this server.

 

 

 

 

Get in the woods and hide the vehicles. They would be dead silent and off the road if they had any warning.  If they where stopped for any length of time the vehicles would disperse and hide to stop getting sticked with bombs. They would not likely open fire until an attack started. Why telegraph if you have not bee seen.

 

In the open the vehicles would disperse to lessen the loss of a successful attack. If they where waiting a wise commander would have guns facing outwards in multiple directions.. Tanks and infantry platoons stagger the business end to face outwards when on the move. In Canada as a reservist this is what we did anyway. I'm no expert on what other countries or reg forces do. On the march some guys have their C7 in their left shoulder, in an Illtis troop we did the same. Left, right, left right etc. etc.

 

Basically, I agree with what you are getting at and believe it to be historical as well. A lot of armoured doctrine still in use was refined in WWII.

Edited by 7./JG26_Smokejumper

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It's a shame that moving columns turn servers into lagfests. I think 1C did an awesome job programming the vehicles to evade by going off the road in staggered, L/R formation when an enemy aircraft comes into range. Makes them much harder to kill and interesting to watch when coming in on an attack run.

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