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Tactical Air War

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6 minutes ago, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

 

 

Why should I?!?!?!? The Luftwaffe mantra........ Remember when I said Blue side in general is more poor at teamwork compared to RED? This right here is an example of that in your own words.

 

I do understand a switch not being ideal however, this stack was easily seen coming. It happened EXACTLY like this two campaigns back.  In my blue stack example I am speaking of I flew BOTH sides and it absolutely ruined it for me. Its so early you can easily switch but "why should I" is your attitude so........

 

I do not recommend flying both sides, ruins the magic.

Do you speak english? I just said I have no problem flying reds. This is in practice my first Taw where I have time to fly at least for now and I want to spend it with my squad. I have no problem flying red in later events.

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6 minutes ago, LLv24_Zami said:

Do you speak english? I just said I have no problem flying reds. This is in practice my first Taw where I have time to fly at least for now and I want to spend it with my squad. I have no problem flying red in later events.

 

English is my first and only language. Now that we are crossing into insults I find the fact that your entire squad picked the stack side but CAN fly red to be incredibly selfish.

 

Do you speak English? You said "why should I"? To me this smacks of extreme selfishness by your entire squad. Well done.

 

Want to go back to civil discourse now? I love me a good flame war so if you are game so am I. I like winning the asshole competition.

Edited by 7./JG26_Smokejumper

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6 minutes ago, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

 

English is my first and only language. Now that we are crossing into insults I find the fact that your entire squad picked the stack side but CAN fly red to be incredibly selfish.

 

Do you speak English? You said "why should I"? To me this smacks of extreme selfishness by your entire squad. Well done.

 

Want to go back to civil discourse now? I love me a good flame war so if you are game so am I. I like winning the asshole competition.

Win it by all means. Im not going to argue with you any further, you can think whatever you want my friend. You have your opinion and I have mine.

 

But I think when later maps arrive, well see lot more red players. But not me because Im so selfish Luftwaffle.

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7 minutes ago, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

Want to go back to civil discourse now? I love me a good flame war so if you are game so am I. I like winning the asshole competition.

 

Hmm, from the point of someone just casually reading this thread and not even flying TAW, you Sir are definitely the champ.

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Zami, you strike me as the kind of person that would complain about a house being on fire. After you set it on fire. And not helping putting the fire out. If the number imbalance is such a big damn problem for you get in there and do your part to balance that out.

 

For my part, I haven't flown this campaign much and I'm registered Red. The reason is simple. Every time I've had the inclination to do so the teams are stacked to hell and gone and I see there being no point to it. I see people flippantly saying it is a target rich environment and all that but 50 v 10 isn't target rich, it is stupid and 50 v 11 would be just as stupid. Why the blue team would want to play in that environment is beyond me. Maybe that is the 'blue team play' I hear so much about: it is when just the blue team plays with themselves and they like it.

Edited by Disarray

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7 minutes ago, LLv24_Zami said:

Win it by all means. Im not going to argue with you any further, you can think whatever you want my friend. You have your opinion and I have mine.

 

 

 

 

Friends don't insult each other during a casual conversation. It was and would have continued to be a civil discussion.

 

I think what I think based of blue actions over multiple games during 3000 hours of flight time with about 1500 of those hours being in a 109.

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5 minutes ago, Disarray said:

Zami, you strike me as the kind of person that would complain about a house being on fire. After you set it on fire. And not helping putting the fire out. If the number imbalance is such a big damn problem for you get in there and do your part to balance that out.

 

For my part, I haven't flown this campaign much and I'm registered Red. The reason is simple. Every time I've had the inclination to do so the teams are stacked to hell and gone and I see there being no point to it. I see people flippantly saying it is a target rich environment and all that but 50 v 10 isn't target rich, it is stupid and 50 v 11 would be just as stupid. Why the blue team would want to play in that environment is beyond me. Maybe that is the 'blue team play' I hear so much about: it is when just the blue team plays with themselves and they like it.

What are you talking about? Numbers havent been problem for me. But it seems that for many it is. So I gave one opinion why that is. Thats all.

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I'll just wait and see how things develop for now. There is a reason I couldn't even motivate myself to register. ^^ With the numbers and the "interesting" changes to the planeset, I'm not really interested to play either side right now. I hope that changes further down the line though.

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10 minutes ago, Disarray said:

 I see people flippantly saying it is a target rich environment and all that but 50 v 10 isn't target rich, it is stupid and 50 v 11 would be just as stupid. Why the blue team would want to play in that environment is beyond me. Maybe that is the 'blue team play' I hear so much about: it is when just the blue team plays with themselves and they like it.

 

 

I disagree here but not a vehement you suck or anything bait like. I simply enjoy it as I get to CAP from a close by airfield. They are so bored they come out to find you often one by one. I tend to stay away from the large Blue spawn spots though or you get mobbed real bad. If the weather is bad I like playing peekaboo with bored and lazy blue. A bad numbers tack brings out a little complacency which you can capitalize on.

 

I do get blown out of the sky a fair bit though. At least I get to bail in friendly territory!

21 minutes ago, LeLv30_Redwing said:

 

Hmm, from the point of someone just casually reading this thread and not even flying TAW, you Sir are definitely the champ.

 

 

Thanks brother! Life in Australian mining made me mean or as a Canadian I would have been chewed up and spat out. My tolerance for BS is very, very low.

Edited by 7./JG26_Smokejumper

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13 minutes ago, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

 

 

Friends don't insult each other during a casual conversation. It was and would have continued to be a civil discussion.

 

I think what I think based of blue actions over multiple games during 3000 hours of flight time with about 1500 of those hours being in a 109.

I took your luftwaffe mantra stuff insulting so train goes both ways. You dont know my motives for doing stuff.

 

But as I said, well see what happens to the player numbers when later maps arrive. Interesting actually.

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21 hours ago, =LG=Kathon said:

Gunners are: 75% Normal, 25% High

 

AK scoring: it has worked like that for a long time so it's not really a change, but I wanted to clarify it. There is a problem with kill when a pilot only damage enemy then he lands and start a new  sortie. If the enemy crashes after that it's not possible to update the stats because the attacker has a new sortie and stats from previous sortie had been calculated.

 

21 hours ago, =LG=Kathon said:

There was a strange bug on the #1 map after mission #3. Axis tanks were attacking axis cities and in the later missions there was a few Allied tanks. I think I have fixed this bug. 

 

Thanks for the answers! And okay, I wanted to remember that kills counted retroactively (i.e. being counted even if the death occurs after the mission ends) in the last campaign, by counting on the new mission if the player is still in a plane when the target finally dies.

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13 minutes ago, LLv24_Zami said:

I took your luftwaffe mantra stuff insulting so train goes both ways. You dont know my motives for doing stuff.

 

But as I said, well see what happens to the player numbers when later maps arrive. Interesting actually.

 

 

You told me your motives with "why should I" and "I want to fly with my squad."

 

When I say Luftwaffe Mantra it stands but if you want to take it personally that is silly. It's a trend across multiple games. Some might try and say language barrier but I find in the RAF or VVS chennels there is also a larger language spread. Easy for me, I speak English so...... Other language guys often speak English too. Great for a lazy North American who only has one language under his belt. Siddy has a thick ass accent, flew with him last night. I hear more accents in RED channels no matter the game compared with blue. It's not my "opinion" it's the way it is.

 

Coincidentally, most of ACG is flying blue to my annoyance this round. I could stack sides to "fly with my mates" but I'd rather a balanced campaign.

Edited by 7./JG26_Smokejumper

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11 minutes ago, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

 

 

You told me your motives with "why should I" and "I want to fly with my squad."

 

When I say Luftwaffe Mantra it stands but if you want to take it personally that is silly. It's a trend across multiple games. Some might try and say language barrier but I find in the RAF or VVS chennels there is also a larger language spread. Easy for me, I speak English so...... Other language guys often speak English too. Great for a lazy North American who only has one language under his belt. Siddy has a thick ass accent, flew with him last night. I hear more accents in RED channels no matter the game compared with blue. It's not my "opinion" it's the way it is.

 

Coincidentally, most of ACG is flying blue to my annoyance this round. I could stack sides to "fly with my mates" but I'd rather a balanced campaign.

Well your answer shows to me that it's absolutely pointless to continue this at the moment. No offence here to anyone on this earth.

 

See you in the skies.

 

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Of course it's pointless. Blue has a lot more guys who fly Blue and ONLY Blue. Many of these pilots will switch at Bodenplatte and I expect the stack to swing the other way just like how RAF has the stack in Cliffs. It's predictable to the point that I called this blue stack as soon as the last campaign ended.

 

With so many players being of your opinion it is a pointless conversation. It's not going to change, ever.

 

When Bodenplatte drops the stack will go RED and BLUE will still have teamwork and comms issues....... On the upside I'll be back in 109s a lot.   :)

Edited by 7./JG26_Smokejumper

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7 minutes ago, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

Of course it's pointless. Blue has a lot more guys who fly Blue and ONLY Blue. Many of these pilots will switch at Bodenplatte and I expect the stack to swing the other way just like how RAF has the stack in Cliffs. It's predictable to the point that I called this blue stack as soon as the last campaign ended.

 

With so many players being of your opinion it is a pointless conversation. It's not going to change, ever.

 

When Bodenplatte drops the stack will go RED and BLUE will still have teamwork and comms issues....... On the upside I'll be back in 109s a lot.   :)

You just cant drop it, do you? 😄

 

1. All I said that reds in current TAW is waiting for better planes to join. I might be wrong or not, but thats what I think based on my observations of human behaviour. Thats all what I have to say for now.

 

2. Then it turned to me, why arent I flying reds. It has nothing to do why people who registered as red dont play early maps. Shouldnt have even answered this, it seems endless road which leads to nothing imo. I have better things to do, fly for example.

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52 minutes ago, LLv24_Zami said:

You just cant drop it, do you? 😄

 

 

 

 

Nah, I'm an egotistical pretend fighter pilot!

 

1: Would not be surprised if some VVS are being chicken shit.

 

2: For a guy who doesn't want to continue the convo you can't stop either. I think you and I would get on like a house on fire.    :)

 

 

Thanks for the most civil mini flame war in this forum!!! I love me a heated debate.

Edited by 7./JG26_Smokejumper
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This is a long-standing discrepancy I hope can be fixed.

 

Contents: no bikinis, lots of data and analysis, a little profanity, and a suggestion. Custom skins have full swastikas.

 

 

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3 hours ago, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

 

Thanks for the most civil mini flame war in this forum!!! I love me a heated debate.

No problem :)

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16 minutes ago, StG77_HvB said:

This is a long-standing discrepancy I hope can be fixed.

 

Contents: no bikinis, lots of data and analysis, a little profanity, and a suggestion. Custom skins have full swastikas.

 

 

All my thumbs up. I think Kathon can agree with it too. Right Kathon? 😄

Edited by =L/R=Coldman
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42 minutes ago, StG77_HvB said:

This is a long-standing discrepancy I hope can be fixed.

 

That's the kind of changes we need!

 

great quality post.

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10 hours ago, Disarray said:

Zami, you strike me as the kind of person that would complain about a house being on fire. After you set it on fire. And not helping putting the fire out. If the number imbalance is such a big damn problem for you get in there and do your part to balance that out.

 

For my part, I haven't flown this campaign much and I'm registered Red. The reason is simple. Every time I've had the inclination to do so the teams are stacked to hell and gone and I see there being no point to it. I see people flippantly saying it is a target rich environment and all that but 50 v 10 isn't target rich, it is stupid and 50 v 11 would be just as stupid. Why the blue team would want to play in that environment is beyond me. Maybe that is the 'blue team play' I hear so much about: it is when just the blue team plays with themselves and they like it.

I registered blue this time because our group wanted to fly blue, I flew the first day and once I saw how one sided it was i haven't flown again.  Don't believe I will unless it balances out later on. 

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Great video H! Seems like  a reasonable suggestion. I'm sure Kathon will look at it favourably.

 

PS- Just next time put a few bikinis in, eh?

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The request is perfectly reasonable and very well presented (less points for the lack of bikinis), but I thought that the TAW ADN was about forcing teamwork (say counting on a friendly to distract the flak) rather than encouraging these lone attackers' strikes. 

 

Also I find funny that it's always said that the IL-2 is the unbalancing tool for the VVS while it's been proven with these very well done videos that -once more- the advantage is on the side that carries the more bombs, but this is another debate I wouldn't like to get in atm.

 

So regarding HvB request, I'd go for the replacement of some of the guns for quicker ones in order to force teamplay and cooperation rather than exploiting game engine limitations.

 

 

 

 

Edited by HR_Tofolo
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8 hours ago, StG77_HvB said:

This is a long-standing discrepancy I hope can be fixed.

 

Contents: no bikinis, lots of data and analysis, a little profanity, and a suggestion. Custom skins have full swastikas.

 

 

 

Constructive criticism and made in an unbiased/non-confrontational way. Very refreshing. Hope the few posters in this thread that have hijacked the discussion lately into a “red vs blue” flame war have taken notes. Bring some evidence, rational thought, and open approach to your arguments. Great vid, HvB! I think that’s a fair solution to a problem you noticed.

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13 hours ago, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

Of course it's pointless. Blue has a lot more guys who fly Blue and ONLY Blue. Many of these pilots will switch at Bodenplatte and I expect the stack to swing the other way just like how RAF has the stack in Cliffs. It's predictable to the point that I called this blue stack as soon as the last campaign ended.

 

With so many players being of your opinion it is a pointless conversation. It's not going to change, ever.

 

When Bodenplatte drops the stack will go RED and BLUE will still have teamwork and comms issues....... On the upside I'll be back in 109s a lot.   :)

Man, you are wrong there. I might fly from time to time VVS or RAF planes. But it's almost impossible to get any of LLvXX guys to fly all the time other than axis planes. I flew RAF/FAF once in ww2online, if you know the game, had to leave my squad, made first and only allied squad for Finns with one ground guy and we showed them how to fight / fly etc. I got so much hate for being a side switcher, backstabber etc. Some ppl still don't talk to me in our Finnish virtual pilot community (internet or LAN meetings) after that incident. That was back in 2005 (2003-2005 don't remember anymore 😄 ) I think or something... Soooo, I spoke to our LLv34 squad to maybe try Reds next TAW or something, but we will see how balancing will turn out towards the end. 

 

But for me, I will stay overall almost always Axis and fly with my squad. Even tho some times I try to even teams on our own Finnish virtual pilots server, even then staying on our TS and asking guys where they are to get some dogfights going on :) 

Oh ye, next time you see Siddy on TS, tell him that he is traitor of fatherland and that rumor is, he got shot down in Axis planes so he switched to the red.. at least what is said over TS 😂

Edited by LLv34_adexu
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A thought exercise :

 

What would interest me in flying for the opposite side (Not that I have to, as reds are always down) is if my combat missions for the side I'm flying on also counted towards the CMs for the other side (or, for example, only when the other side has fewer players. Or you could do it at 1/2 rate of the CM gain for the faction that you are flying right now, i.e. 6 CM for aircraft).

 

That means if I switch sides I won't have to "grind" up to my favourite aircraft with likely full hangar available to play with. The main motivation to suggest this as I expect people switching sides are discouraged by only being able to fly i16's, and struggling to get the migs.

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3 hours ago, LLv34_adexu said:

I spoke to our LLv34 squad to maybe try Reds next TAW or something

 

 

That would be a sight to behold :biggrin:

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29 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

 

 

That would be a sight to behold :biggrin:

Ye.. dunno if we see that day. I mean, we are oldest Finnish squad which is still operating and almost always flew axis, since 1998. But I heard sometimes there is some moments when we fly allied too. Oh, it's our 20 year anniversary!

Edited by LLv34_adexu
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13 hours ago, StG77_HvB said:

This is a long-standing discrepancy I hope can be fixed.

 

Contents: no bikinis, lots of data and analysis, a little profanity, and a suggestion. Custom skins have full swastikas.

 

 

 

Hi HvB,

 

nice one and well done +1

 

regards

 

Little_D

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17 hours ago, Operatsiya_Ivy said:

@=LG=Kathon sorry to bother you again but do you have by any chance the statistic on how many I-16s were shot down by 109 F4? would be really interesting to see.

I always wanted to add such statistic on the main page but as always lack of time, I haven't played this campaign yet 

 

Here are stats for all planes from map #2

ATTACKER TARGET SHOT_DOWN
Bf 109 E-7 I-16 type 24 87
Bf 109 E-7 Il-2 mod.1941 32
Bf 109 E-7 MiG-3 ser.24 15
Bf 109 E-7 P-40E-1 39
Bf 109 E-7 Pe-2 ser.35 37
Bf 109 F-2 I-16 type 24 36
Bf 109 F-2 Il-2 mod.1941 16
Bf 109 F-2 MiG-3 ser.24 14
Bf 109 F-2 P-40E-1 17
Bf 109 F-2 Pe-2 ser.35 20
Bf 109 F-4 I-16 type 24 24
Bf 109 F-4 Il-2 mod.1941 12
Bf 109 F-4 MiG-3 ser.24 9
Bf 109 F-4 P-40E-1 9
Bf 109 F-4 Pe-2 ser.35 11
Bf 110 E-2 I-16 type 24 15
Bf 110 E-2 Il-2 mod.1941 8
Bf 110 E-2 MiG-3 ser.24 3
Bf 110 E-2 P-40E-1 3
Bf 110 E-2 Pe-2 ser.35 9
He 111 H-6 I-16 type 24 3
He 111 H-6 MiG-3 ser.24 2
He 111 H-6 P-40E-1 3
He 111 H-6 Pe-2 ser.35 2
I-16 type 24 Bf 109 E-7 88
I-16 type 24 Bf 109 F-2 26
I-16 type 24 Bf 109 F-4 7
I-16 type 24 Bf 110 E-2 20
I-16 type 24 He 111 H-6 6
I-16 type 24 Ju 87 D-3 13
I-16 type 24 Ju 88 A-4 6
I-16 type 24 MC.202 ser.VIII 16
Il-2 mod.1941 Bf 109 E-7 4
Il-2 mod.1941 Bf 109 F-2 3
Il-2 mod.1941 Bf 109 F-4 1
Il-2 mod.1941 Bf 110 E-2 3
Il-2 mod.1941 Ju 87 D-3 3
Il-2 mod.1941 MC.202 ser.VIII 2
Ju 87 D-3 MiG-3 ser.24 2
Ju 87 D-3 P-40E-1 1
Ju 88 A-4 I-16 type 24 2
Ju 88 A-4 MiG-3 ser.24 4
Ju 88 A-4 P-40E-1 4
Ju 88 A-4 Pe-2 ser.35 3
MC.202 ser.VIII I-16 type 24 9
MC.202 ser.VIII Il-2 mod.1941 4
MC.202 ser.VIII MiG-3 ser.24 1
MC.202 ser.VIII P-40E-1 8
MC.202 ser.VIII Pe-2 ser.35 11
MiG-3 ser.24 Bf 109 E-7 61
MiG-3 ser.24 Bf 109 F-2 20
MiG-3 ser.24 Bf 109 F-4 12
MiG-3 ser.24 Bf 110 E-2 20
MiG-3 ser.24 He 111 H-6 5
MiG-3 ser.24 Ju 52 3mg4e 1
MiG-3 ser.24 Ju 87 D-3 6
MiG-3 ser.24 Ju 88 A-4 9
MiG-3 ser.24 MC.202 ser.VIII 8
P-40E-1 Bf 109 E-7 32
P-40E-1 Bf 109 F-2 5
P-40E-1 Bf 109 F-4 2
P-40E-1 Bf 110 E-2 11
P-40E-1 He 111 H-6 8
P-40E-1 Ju 87 D-3 5
P-40E-1 Ju 88 A-4 11
P-40E-1 MC.202 ser.VIII 5
Pe-2 ser.35 Bf 109 E-7 11
Pe-2 ser.35 Bf 109 F-2 4
Pe-2 ser.35 Bf 109 F-4 4
Pe-2 ser.35 Bf 110 E-2 2
Pe-2 ser.35 He 111 H-6 2
Pe-2 ser.35 Ju 88 A-4 1
Pe-2 ser.35 MC.202 ser.VIII 5
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Looking at the numbers and doing some calculations, it looks like that the numerical advantage is by far the most important factor. 

 

On Map#2 both teams shot down nearly equal numbers of planes. The F4 claimed 16% of the german fighter kills while the MiG3 claimed 35% of the fighter kills.

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16 hours ago, =L/R=Coldman said:

All my thumbs up. I think Kathon can agree with it too. Right Kathon? 😄

No  bikinis, no changes, sorry ;(

 

The different solution would be randomly  rotating AA by about 90 degree so Blue and Red AA would have to rotate  90 before start firing.

 

What do you think?

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24 minutes ago, =LG=Kathon said:

No  bikinis, no changes, sorry ;(

 

The different solution would be randomly  rotating AA by about 90 degree so Blue and Red AA would have to rotate  90 before start firing.

 

What do you think?

 

 

As long as AA has bikinis... 

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We should make a truce and stop the war campaign until bikinis shows up :)

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