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Tactical Air War

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This thread is basicly a couple of posts that try to address some issues with the campaign using logic and statistics and then a couple of dudes who only fly one side arguing for a page or two.

 

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Sounds about right! Some are willing to accept the status quo and some are will to address change.

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Because suggesting it is a tactical issue is just silly! I finally see it. I should have never dained to question the Blue fighters....

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1 minute ago, Amerikanski said:

god i hope this weekend

I'm afraid, I'll have to disappoint you😈
 

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unacceptable, if im not playing TAW in 12 hours your dead to me

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1 hour ago, SKeptic said:

What reason for such long pauses between wars?

Reasons are always the same, changes , fixes etc.

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On 5/29/2018 at 5:45 PM, Disarray said:

So a JU-88 has all of the ordinance of a PE-2, more if we are being exact, but is unable to make the run and survive. Fine. Why are they failing to come home? The natural answer is that they are being killed. Killed by what?

 

 

Easy meat. They love to come in 1 by 1 all alone. If you camp a target you are going to smash single bombers all shift.

On 5/29/2018 at 5:50 PM, CptSiddy said:

I mean, i get it, covering attackers from 2km is not glorious work. It is dangerous, you need to babysit attackers without scoring any kills.

 

 

 

Covering attackers is the easiest way to get kills. Two stacks one at 2k the other 3.5k. It can be done with just two fighters as well.

 

I LOVE escort duty. Fixated pilots are the best targets. Plus once the bomber drops the enemy team gets a warning. Walk your bomber out, get altitude and come back for a CAP. Now you get to smash new fighters who are looking down for bombers. Escort duty for attackers is really fun and a great way to get some in the bag in my opinion.

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9 hours ago, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

 

 

I LOVE escort duty. Fixated pilots are the best targets. Plus once the bomber drops the enemy team gets a warning. Walk your bomber out, get altitude and come back for a CAP. Now you get to smash new fighters who are looking down for bombers. Escort duty for attackers is really fun and a great way to get some in the bag in my opinion.

 

Shhhh, don't tell them that! 

 

But on more serious note, when the skilled bunch of fighters go in, you are more than likely not get there alive from covering. Covering is risky because you have to keep yourself at the level where you can cover in time, and getting your attackers home is more important than getting kills. Happy attackers means busy attackers, and that means enemy tonks get killed. 

And if you run in to enemy, odds are they are above you and might take on your first (at this point attackers needs to go home ASAP).  It is far more riskier than just hunting people on your terms. 

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Posted (edited)

I agree escort duty is a challenge. A really worth it challenge too.

 

I was really close to making top five fighters. I pulled an 8 hour day and killed myself.   :(

Was flying in a new aircraft that I had not flown much, P39 and really tired. I should have logged off as I got bounced like it was day 1 flight sim.

 

I would have been the only fighter with ground kills as well. It is possible to ground pound AND dogfight. You just need to pick battles carefully.

 

21 AK streak and 41 ground kills much of that in a P40. Great campaign. I hope to do better next one.

 

 

When is the new TAW? I miss it!!

Edited by 7./JG26_Smokejumper

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14 hours ago, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

 

21 AK streak and 41 ground kills much of that in a P40. Great campaign. I hope to do better next one.

 

 

 

19 kill streak here, then i took il2 because motherland needed attackers and got shot down by aaa. 

 

I find the streaking (pun intended) to be the biggest obstacle for people with above average skills to do more for the team that they do now....

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4 hours ago, CptSiddy said:

 

19 kill streak here, then i took il2 because motherland needed attackers and got shot down by aaa. 

 

I find the streaking (pun intended) to be the biggest obstacle for people with above average skills to do more for the team that they do now....

You are right that's why we should be able to have a fighter pilot and an attacker pilot, but I understand it's hard to implement and to limit abuse from it. I did two jabo missions when I was on 30+killstreak and  the adrenaline rush was quite something. After a really close call I stopped doing it not to lose my pilot. 

So yes it makes sense that the more experienced pilots stack up streaks with more ease and rapidity and thus stop doing as much for the team in terms of ground attack and low altitude attacker cover.

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1 hour ago, Disarray said:

Hide the stats until after?

I don't think that would really work, people are still aware that they are on a big grind after several sorties and plane shot down. What I really don't get is this server allows you to make a pilot on both sides, but not two pilots on the same side, one fighter and one bomber/attacker. I mean flying on both sides is really not what a TAW campaign is about, at least for me. Why not make that change?

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Its not a good idea either way. It would simply encourage more suicide runs and wouldn't help really to begin with.

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12 minutes ago, Operation_Ivy said:

Its not a good idea either way. It would simply encourage more suicide runs and wouldn't help really to begin with.

I don't beleive so, you would want a grind on your bomber pilot as well. I really don't see how its a worse idea than having a pilot on both sides. 

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2 hours ago, Operation_Ivy said:

Its not a good idea either way. It would simply encourage more suicide runs and wouldn't help really to begin with.

 

What discourage suicide runs is mainly the rather quick depletion of available hardware. 

 

For average joe, who pisses his +1 plane with Jabo run at enemy AF at the end of the round, stats mean nothing compared the time you need to spend getting new hardware.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, CptSiddy said:

 

19 kill streak here, then i took il2 because motherland needed attackers and got shot down by aaa. 

 

I find the streaking (pun intended) to be the biggest obstacle for people with above average skills to do more for the team that they do now....

 

 

Silly man, P40 or Peshka if you want to drop bombs. Il2's are a death trap, in my opinion. I die whenever I fly one.

I'm not so sure on your assesment though. Some people just like to take more risk. I can't help myself. I always get into the low and stupid fight. I just like it a lot.

 

5 hours ago, CptSiddy said:

 

What discourage suicide runs is mainly the rather quick depletion of available hardware. 

 

For average joe, who pisses his +1 plane with Jabo run at enemy AF at the end of the round, stats mean nothing compared the time you need to spend getting new hardware.

 

 

I quite like the Coconut system. Just discovered it. The supply and ground war is just ace. I think they have done a great job.

Edited by 7./JG26_Smokejumper

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On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 6:24 PM, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

 

 

Silly man, P40 or Peshka if you want to drop bombs. Il2's are a death trap, in my opinion.

 

 

Heh, no.

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How about simply bringing out a campaign without the killstreaks shown on the website. Instead, the statpages of those with more than 5x kills in one streak could just say "Ace". Would defeat all those streaking off over their Hartmann stats... a pilot can count that for himself.

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55 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

How about simply bringing out a campaign without the killstreaks shown on the website. Instead, the statpages of those with more than 5x kills in one streak could just say "Ace". Would defeat all those streaking off over their Hartmann stats... a pilot can count that for himself.

 

 

Maybe keep the individual stats of all players, but don't display those stats on the landing page. If a player wants to see their individual stats, they should click "pilot stats". The landing page should show campaign stats.

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A better approach could be to make flying offensively less punishing.

 

I think we need to rethink the capture mechanic when bailing out. If you bail out 10m behind enemy lines you shouldn't have the same chances of getting captured as when bailing out 100km behind enemy lines. 

 

Then again there is very little information about the capture mechanic of TAW.

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14 hours ago, [TWB]Sketch said:

 

 

Maybe keep the individual stats of all players, but don't display those stats on the landing page. If a player wants to see their individual stats, they should click "pilot stats". The landing page should show campaign stats.

I like the stats on the home page. You get to recognize pilots and when you see they are in the air you exercise more caution. Say the guy with only two assists to his credit :)

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Stats are good but bring in some strange behaviour . On more than one occasion flying blue I noticed that 109s and 190s  did  not engage or help out when pilots needed help . Maybe the odds not in their favour maybe they fear loose that kill streak they have built up . I don't know .

But I'll be  happy to see a stats change .  Besides I don't think the stats are 100% correct . 

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8 hours ago, II./JG77_Con said:

Stats are good but bring in some strange behaviour . On more than one occasion flying blue I noticed that 109s and 190s  did  not engage or help out when pilots needed help . Maybe the odds not in their favour maybe they fear loose that kill streak they have built up . I don't know .

But I'll be  happy to see a stats change .  Besides I don't think the stats are 100% correct . 

 

maybe they weren't able to help you because you were turning like a madman against yaks ;)

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3 hours ago, Operation_Ivy said:

 

maybe they weren't able to help you because you were turning like a madman against yaks ;)

 

This is actually often the problem.

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Posted (edited)

Funny how "stats" are presented as the reason why people don't risk things. My main reason is to survive the sorties.
Surviving in a simulator. what naughty thing to do.

I help when I see a opportunity to help. If I need help after that rescue then I did something wrong.
That is my simple ruleset.

Edited by DerSheriff
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1 hour ago, DerSheriff said:

Funny how "stats" are presented as the reason why people don't risk things. My main reason is to survive the sorties.
Surviving in a simulator. what naughty thing to do.

 I help when I see a opportunity to help. If I need help after that rescue then I did something wrong.
That is my simple ruleset.

 

 

There is a thin line between desertion and dereliction of duty and wanting to survive. Its like most of you never served in military in any capacity...

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1 hour ago, CptSiddy said:

There is a thin line between desertion and dereliction of duty and wanting to survive. Its like most of you never served in military in any capacity.

 

are we still talking about a game here? or did I miss something?

 


 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, CptSiddy said:

 

 

There is a thin line between desertion and dereliction of duty and wanting to survive. Its like most of you never served in military in any capacity...

 

Nobody told me I might have to risk my life in this war! Why did they leave that out of the brochure?!

Edited by Disarray
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, CptSiddy said:

 

 

There is a thin line between desertion and dereliction of duty and wanting to survive. Its like most of you never served in military in any capacity...

 

This is a video game, fam, not real life. Sure, it's meant to simulate WWII air combat, but it's still a video game nonetheless.

Edited by Feraphic
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Regarding stats; a good thing ADW had was the possibility to split your planeset lines between bomber+attacker, and fighter; or have two nicknames, one for fighters, another one for bombers+attackers. This was really fair. I don´t know if it is too difficult to implement it in TAW.

 

I prefer those who care about their virtual life in TAW; that's the difference between approaching this as a simulator, or transforming it into Air Quake Arena. But of course...there is a thin line between caring about stats, and flying for stats.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Feraphic said:

 

This is a video game, fam, not real life. Sure, it's meant to simulate WWII air combat, but it's still a video game nonetheless.

 

Yeah, well, if you want to simulate stat padding in WW2, don't cry when that interferes with your actual mission and loses the maps. 

 

You can have a roster of 50 streak kills and lose the ground war, or help your bombers and attackers and a chance at wining... or at least stop this one sided slaughter. 

This time axis had equal number, still better mounts, better level bombers, ju-88 that is peshka analogue. Only thing you lack is IL-2 but got 110. There is no real reason why axis should be losing maps when axis was outnumbering reds, now that the player counts were somewhat even, axis managed to win one map.

 

If you want to simulate an early war space combat, when luftwaffel had the initiative, trough out the whole campaign you are deluded. That is not being "realistic", thats just you waning to "fly safe".  Because at the end of the war, when reds held the initiative, they did not bother climbing up there in to space. They decimated axis stuff left and right on the ground. But hey, stay in space, fly safe and let your attacker get frustrated and stop caring, a wining strategy, i say! 

 

I am sorry if it sounds harsh, but if i count all the times ive sacrificed my rear to get couple of IL-2's home and how many time ive seen 109's at 4-5 km "covering" the attackers while i could gun two or three of them down before getting engaged... yeah, i would not want to fly any attacker sorties for blues either. 

 

 

2 hours ago, ECV56_Chimango said:

 

 

I prefer those who care about their virtual life in TAW; that's the difference between approaching this as a simulator, or transforming it into Air Quake Arena. But of course...there is a thin line between caring about stats, and flying for stats.

 

 

It is not caring about stats, its caring about mission objective. If you care only for kill marks, that is acceptable flying in early 1940, when there was virtually no risk from opposition either way. But thinking that you can go on fly risk free while doing your job as a airman of luftwaffel... well, there is a reason why so many Luftwaffe airmen did not live to see the end of war (that and the lack of rotation).

At the end of the war, the Luftwaffel airmen life expectancy dropped like an anvil. 

 

 

Right now we are in situation where most talented people on blue side fly all the maps like it is early war free hunting. Where you climb high and just wait and see. This helps the ground war in no way and in my opinion, is considerable part contributing to the current situation.

What makes it worse, is that mediocre pilots imitate the good ones, climb high and jack off there getting done even less. How i know this? Easy, when i go against a good player up on high, i expect to lose because of my myriad handicaps, like VR, and red plane. But the amount of scores I've been getting indicates that there is more and more mediocre pilots in places where they are useless even as a mediocre players. And their reluctance of helping groundpunders because "muh all good players fly high so should i"  attitude just compounds this problem. 

7 hours ago, LLv44_Mprhead said:

 

This is actually often the problem.

 

Why, any 109 can go toe to toe with yak in turn fight. Sure, you wont be getting the advantage of high altitude where yaks lose power. But you are not, by any means, outclassed. 

Having a fur-ball on deck is not elegant, but if it is what it takes to bring the 110's and ju-87's home, then thats what you need to do. Anything less is just going to make TAW really one sided. 

Edited by CptSiddy

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Operation_Ivy said:

 

maybe they weren't able to help you because you were turning like a madman against yaks ;)

Don't think so . Not the only one noticed this behaviour . I'll remember that when your 110 needs help . Joke  😂

Edited by II./JG77_Con

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