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Tactical Air War

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The Cold Starts are a bit stupid for a Couple of Reasons. 

First of all, the Game's Thermodynamics on the Ground Suck, they simply don't warm up as they should, too slow and almost impossible to Overheat on the Ground.

 

The JuMo and DB Engines had 1 to 5 Minutes Maximum before Shutoff or Take-Off, no matter the Temperature. 1 Minute in Summer, 3 in Spring and Autumn, 5 in Winter.

 

That's mostly it.

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Quite clearly Techno chat has nothing to do with Real life flying (and yes i have flown fixed wing prop: Chipmunk, Tigermoth, Cessna and a couple of gliders!)

I think the issue is, techno chat allows you to gain the absolute max out of every plane, every time, ie you can set 87% throttle, with 15% oil rad, and 84% mixture every single time

you fly, and fly flat out with out fear of damaging you plane, which quite clearly gives you an advantage.

Even in real life you couldn't be quite that precise, and you rely on your gauges and not so much lever position for feed back.

Something you don't need to do with techno chat on.

As for not being able to fly without it on, there is not a single plane that cannot be flown in this game without it on. Use the instruments and gauges, they are beautifully modeled and work!!

In fact i think there is quite a skill to be able to manage your plane (especially with manual prop, mixture etc) and i gain quite a satisfaction from it, and would respect an opponent far more if he didn't use it either.

I'm not saying it should be mandatory, its a matter of choice,

but there should at least be an option for those who don't want it , that includes servers as well.

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I quite agree that the Current Technochat is far too accurate and informative. It needs to be broken down to a purely input Levels, and those only with Low Resolution, between 5 and 10 Steps. 

 

So in my Ideal  5 Position Lever Icon would Resolve less than 12.5% Input as ( _. ) between 12.5% and 37.5% as ( \. ) between 37.5% and 62.5% as ( | )  62.5% to 87.5% as ( ./ ) and 87.5% to 100 as ( ._ ) 

 

I couldn't find any images, but I hope you get what I mean. Either this or a System somewhat similar to RoF. 

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Posted (edited)

maybe a stupid question ( sorry ) - removing the technochat also means removing the digital compass ?

Edited by 3.IAP/UO_Mira*
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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, JG5_Schuck said:

 

As for not being able to fly without it on, there is not a single plane that cannot be flown in this game without it on. Use the instruments and gauges, they are beautifully modeled and work!!

 

Can you share how you do it on the I-16?

How will I know my water radiator position on the PE-2?

HE 111?

...

Edited by ATAG_dB

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1 hour ago, ATAG_dB said:

Can you share how you do it on the I-16?

How will I know my water radiator position on the PE-2?

HE 111?

...

I know you asked Schuck, but for me. You cannot know exactly what radiator opening you have to the nearest 1%, but, for those planes you can see the levers or the radiator themselves and one you get used to it, you remember how long a press of the button or key opens a radiator roughly. (they all seem to move at the same rate.) Then for confirmation I monitor temperature.

I recognize that not everyone would like this, but I personally like the drill of making an adjustment, then monitoring systems, readjusting periodically etc. You do have to get away from fussing that someone else may have a more optimal setting by a couple of percent too, but once I made peace with that I found it quite Zen. :)

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2 hours ago, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

 

I know you asked Schuck, but for me. You cannot know exactly what radiator opening you have to the nearest 1%, but, for those planes you can see the levers or the radiator themselves and one you get used to it, you remember how long a press of the button or key opens a radiator roughly. (they all seem to move at the same rate.) Then for confirmation I monitor temperature.

I recognize that not everyone would like this, but I personally like the drill of making an adjustment, then monitoring systems, readjusting periodically etc. You do have to get away from fussing that someone else may have a more optimal setting by a couple of percent too, but once I made peace with that I found it quite Zen. :)

You would have to show me where are those water rad lever on the 111? or the PE2 (witch aren't levers) they are toggle type switch on PE so it is impossible to know, the next time we fly together. The beer on me

  

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5 minutes ago, ATAG_dB said:

You would have to show me where are those water rad lever on the 111? or the PE2 (witch aren't levers) they are toggle type switch on PE so it is impossible to know, the next time we fly together. The beer on me

 

IIRC the water rad leavers for the 111 are on the right side of the seat. You can actually see the rad shutters on the wings on the Pe2, so you can use that to adjust along with monitoring the temps.

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Posted (edited)

You can also use some external utility that can read your directx axis imput and display the exact value in a separate window or overlay on your main screen so feel free to remove them in the game 

Edited by Bushman_
typo
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Honestly i think removing tech chat would hurt the gameplay more than it would benefit it. A lot of people don't fly with an HOTAS setup.

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Posted (edited)

Removing GPS or technochat is really stupid. Cold starting : likewise.

There are a couple of things that set real life pilots and gamers apart:

-real life pilots have training (including navigation and familiarisation with their area of operations). they prepare for every flight.

-real life pilots have G-meter which makes flight intuitive and easy.

-real life pilots dont have to look through a 30 inch monitor wirh very limited fov, buggy head tracking and low resolution.

-real life pilots have comfortable work place with good control devices such as throttle stick and rudder + an appropriate amount of auxiliary controls.

 

Trying to match gaming and IRL is really really dumb and leads to very poor games. You gamers will never be pilots so pls dont try to be one and dont make the actual game absurd. Gaming is always handicapped when compared to flight.

Edited by Max_Damage
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22 minutes ago, Max_Damage said:

Trying to match gaming and IRL is really really dumb and leads to very poor games. You gamers will never be pilots so pls dont try to be one and dont make the actual game absurd. Gaming is always handicapped when compared to flight.

 

I agree with you, but I'm almost sure there are more "real pilots" than you think playing at this game ;)

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Posted (edited)

@ Klaus_Mann,

 

lol realy? You dont know me and insult that i have no RL? I am working hard for my mony, have a wife, my kids and friends. AS for this hobby and for others, if you want to make it right it cost you a lot of time and mony. Or what do you think how many time a modelers ( with RC or without ), will spend. Dont even talk about the mony it cost.  And 8 hours a weak is not mutch. There are hobbys out there that need mutch more time and mony. Also you need a good time management to bring RL and hobby together. Also the most impotant thing, you need a goverment that allowes you to spend the time and mony you need for your hobby :biggrin:.

 

Also is "Full Real" on a flight sime for me, that you try to simulate to fly your plane blind without have to look all the time into the cockpit to check your imputs or on a techchat. As they did it or as a pilot does it today, like you driveing a car. You train your muscels your sence, your brain etc. As you post it.

Hardcore is for me in a flight sim 1x life per pilot in a campaign, you would wonder how different you and your enemys are flying arround and fighting each other. As this would be to frustrating for a game, there is of course different solution for this. 1 would be, for this day/week you are out and need to start again. And this also has influense on tactics, etc.

 

@ SuperEtendard,

 

thank you for even test it and take you the time. How Box do the imputs when you push a button is mutch harder than in other sims, but has also a lot do do with your hadware. Maby it is my long training ( imput sense on my finger and my clock inside )and my hadware, but i have a constant 2% per klick. 

 

I will try it again, maby than it makes more sense. This counting seconds or clicks is only an example for guys that dont want to spend mony in hadware, but still want to fly there planes they like, blind as they did and do in RL. It is not perfect and looks maby gamy, but i prefer the pilot who tries to fly blind as they did then with the technical preconditions he has over an pilot that says i cant get the sence i need because i dont have the hardware and use techchat.

 

As i wrote in other post, i also start with 30€ stick, no rudder, tastatur and headswitch view and techchat on.

Than i went up to servers like WoP with gps for own and enemys and all other helps you can get. But over time o went to more and more realistic server till the point i got ask to fly with soemone together. Sone after this i went with them on a "full real" server, no gps no infos, fu... As i still was not sure if i should spend mony for better hardware on this flightsim i learn and trained me to fly with the hardware i had blind on this server.

And over this it comes to the second, click counting. But this was also a kinde of training and conditioning

to my sense, but only in my fingertips. It works perfect after time. Or do you realy think that i or others, that use the hardware they have to fly blind, have the time in dogfight to count seconds or clicks? Not realy as there is also a lot comunication goes on in TS and other stuff to do. But when you tain this as real pilots would train there muscels, sense,brain, etc. you dont need to cound clicks/seconds, you have this in your backminde your sense or how ever you whant to call it. This is closer to RL as techchat.

 

Of couse it is not realy satisfying, so for me the question was comeing up, fly on this server with what you have, or upgrate your hadware or leave the server. I went for the hardware ( Stick with axes, rudder pedals and Track IR) next step would be VR.

 

If the people that dont see this as there main hobby and dont want to spend monny in hardware this is fine, but than please let the peole that call this there hobby and spend they mony to fly on a server that support this with no techchat ( right hardware or training ), when you than cant fly eney more on this server, good. Learn to fly blind or buy you the hadware you need to fly blind etc. and come back or search for a other server. As we, that see this as our hobby spent mony to get the right hadware to fly blind, full real, hadcore or how ever you want to call it. And we want to fly under the same conditions against each other. And this has nothig to do with some feelings about an elite or so, no it is only a sepperation of full time flyiers ( there main hobby ) and funflyers.

 

You can have all the techachts on on servers like WoP/ Berloga, but at soon it goes to a 24/7 "full real" or "hardcore" server, or to a campaign server like TaW or soon ACG than please learn to fly your plane blind

with the hardware you have or go and search for an different server that fits to you. Or buy you the hardware you need. Same goes for peole that need the gps to know where they are or the targets, etc. Realy you want to fly online and cant even read a compas or a map? LoL.

 

And before you misunderstand this again, this has not to do with arrogance or elite, it is about the server that are online and to make a separation for the frequent flyers and occasion flyers, with different servers setups. And no it is not a removal and it will not shatter the comunity. This has been around for years in flightsims

and other computer simulations. Also for me this sepeeration makes the comunity stronger as you have different servers for different knowleg. So a better learningcurve etc.

 

So i hope now it makes more sense. If I'm not sorry, but I can not express myself so clearly on the basis of a disease, it is difficult for me to find the right words and even more in english. But at least i know enough people that know or understand what i mean. Because as me they are for years in this hobby.

 

regards

 

Little_D

Edited by 1./JG2_Little_D
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Posted (edited)

For my part, I support the elimination of the technochat and the virtual compass.
I think it would help the players to know the plane they are piloting.

........ it is enough to dedicate a time to him, all those helps you will not need them again.
regards

Edited by Ala13_Antiguo
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Max_Damage said:

Removing GPS or technochat is really stupid. Cold starting : likewise.

There are a couple of things that set real life pilots and gamers apart:

 

Quote

-real life pilots have training (including navigation and familiarisation with their area of operations). they prepare for every flight.

 

Right, we also have training and are familiarisation with their area of operations and prepare for flight.

 

Quote

-real life pilots have G-meter which makes flight intuitive and easy.

 

Right, but with training you can get use to it and fly without. as it is a game as you said right, but still a simualtion.

 

Quote

-real life pilots dont have to look through a 30 inch monitor wirh very limited fov, buggy head tracking and low resolution.

 

Right, but again use training to get used to it. Also when you have the mony by you a system that can handle VR.

 

Quote

-real life pilots have comfortable work place with good control devices such as throttle stick and rudder + an appropriate amount of auxiliary controls.

 

Right, but so have the simmer ot the guy that has this as main hobby

 

Quote

 

Trying to match gaming and IRL is really really dumb and leads to very poor games. You gamers will never be pilots so pls dont try to be one and dont make the actual game absurd. Gaming is always handicapped when compared to flight.

 

Ah i got it, so someone that spend his time and mony, to get the right hardware together and do the training that is needed to oppereat in this sime like in RL is dumb and make this

actual game absurd. LoL

 

A simmer can come closer to your points with this game and his hardware, than a gamer can.

 

A simmer has an virtual life he cares about. A simmer trains to get better or to fly his plane blind. A simmer know how to navigate and to locate his actual position and on with hdg he need to fly to reach a target or base A simmer do taxiing, a simmer hold fire till he is shure about the target, a simmer dont do shouldershooting a simmer would insteed climb back up and cover the other fighter that are infight with the enemy. A simmer flys till fuel is out ( 100% at start ), ammo out or battle damaged, etc. A gamer need techchat and dont care about his virtual life. A gamer has not the hardware or the time that is needed. A gamer flys like an idiot low and slow to a hard defenced target and crays that nobody want to escort him. A gamer dont care about tactics or teamwork, a gamer flys when he makes a kill back to save it for his stats insteed of still covering or patroling the target/area, etc.

 

Yes of course we dont die or even have the strees or fear inflight, but stil you can simulat to a degree the RL if you whant.

 

regards

 

Little_D

 

Edited by 1./JG2_Little_D

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2 hours ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

 

I agree with you, but I'm almost sure there are more "real pilots" than you think playing at this game ;)

It seems as though the real pilots (myself included) who have expressed their opinions and experiences, are on the side of not removing every piece of TC.  We (hope I can speak collectively) see removing the warnings and hints as okay, but not the raw %'s.  

 

I'll adapt, and it really isn't a big deal to me personally - mostly because I seem to die no matter what I'm doing.  My fear is what it will do to server population and side distribution. 

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27 minutes ago, =BES=Coyote-66 said:

It seems as though the real pilots (myself included) who have expressed their opinions and experiences, are on the side of not removing every piece of TC.  We (hope I can speak collectively) see removing the warnings and hints as okay, but not the raw %'s.  

 

I'll adapt, and it really isn't a big deal to me personally - mostly because I seem to die no matter what I'm doing.  My fear is what it will do to server population and side distribution. 

 

Hi as you know i see it the other way arround and know also real pilots that play flightsims and hate the techchat exactly because of that that people dont want to invest time or mony to fly blind. But maby as an ex fighterpilot and trainer for new pilots in the airforce he is not good enough or has no knowleg to say techchat are trainingsweels. Of course it is clear that even with the hardware to controll all axis and switches the plane you fly in this game and RL has it is not possible to fly like a real plane,  but closer than with techchat on, as you need also training to know the positions of the axis and switches and what it does to your plane. Not only where they stand on your desk and how you reach them blind specialy in VR, no you need also training to know how you have to move my arm, hand or even only my fingers on an axis to get  axis x,   in position x,  and this brings cooler x  in position x%. Yes fu.. i dont be so exact like the techchat with his1% possibillity, but close enough to RL. 

 

Also i think we all to it right now: ailerons, elevator rudder, all this i do with my arms hands, and legs and also need training to get a feeling on how fast or far i need to pull the controls to make a clean manover at different speeds. Do we have a techchat for this? No i think and hope. The rest is about the management from the other axis and switches in the plane. So you train yourself to fly the planes ingame with a joystick throttle and rudder without looking at them to know there position and what it does to your plane ingame, but when it comes to engine, cooler, mixture oppeartion, etc. you dont want to train or learn to do it also without looking ( blind ), insteed you go for techchat.

 

regards

 

Little_D

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Your fighter pilot friend has the tactile feel in cockpit, and a shite load of sensors.  BTW, if s/he flew fighters in the last 30 years, then they likely had a HUD, MFD's and all sorts of audible/ visual warnings, AKA technochat.  So I'm not sure you want to use that comparison for WW2 a/c.

 

Plus, your fighter pilot friend was trained on his aircraft over A LOT of time, and money.

 

My point is not that real pilots don't need need TC.  My point is that pilots know what they can feel and sense, that one cannot feel in this sim.  

 

BTW, not a single person in here was talking about stick control needing TC, so that was irrelevant.

 

I think we're forgetting a big thing here. And that is the fact that TAW isn't really meant SOLELY to make piloting more realistic/difficult.  What sets it apart from WoL  (besides GPS) is the combat and dynamic war experience.  

Remember, I'm all for removing 95% of it.  But I have yet to see a legitimate response or conversation of the ramifications.  It makes sense to the hardcore simmers, who are the obvious audience in this forum.  But, you run the risk of ostricizing those more casual simmers (notice I didn't say gamers) who populate the server.  Do we even know what percent of players follow the forum?

 

A lot of this "get VR and a switch panel and a joystick with 43 axis" is rubbish.  That's a pay-to play mentality and a poor excuse.

 

 

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14 hours ago, ATAG_dB said:

Can you share how you do it on the I-16?

How will I know my water radiator position on the PE-2?

HE 111?

...

 

You watch the temp gauge and adjust as necessary, 

I mean when you're driving your car you watch the speedo and adjust your speed, but you don't have to constantly look at where your foot is!

 

7 hours ago, Max_Damage said:

 

 

Trying to match gaming and IRL is really really dumb and leads to very poor games. You gamers will never be pilots so pls dont try to be one and dont make the actual game absurd. Gaming is always handicapped when compared to flight.

 

Who's trying to match it up?

The two are quite obviously different.

Although they do use a lot of simulation to train pilots nowadays (and no technochat in sight!!)

 

Anyway, as i said its a personal choice...... but at the moment its up to the individual, and not a server setting.

Which invariable means my opponent will have a distinct advantage if he uses it.

And my respect if he doesn't.

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Technochat with input-values: Fine! Technochat that tells you about engine limits and damage you sustained as well as fuel level should be disableable by serverside option.

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I can't wait to return to flying on April 4th. The amount of heated debate's lead getting thrown around on the forums, instead of by bullets ingame, gets disturbing. I hope TAW returns in the beginning of April as well.

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Going slowly insANE subjecting myself to WoL............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................f/;lhbm/.zdf,nv.,ASNM.df,A /,SF,VZSB

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Just now, Cpt_Siddy said:

 

 

Says a guy who sits playing serious internet pixel planes....

 

Perhaps he is 11?

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Updatez? :russian_ru:

Any information on when this glorious server will return please? ;)

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1 hour ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Updatez? :russian_ru:

Any information on when this glorious server will return please? ;)

 

I could be wrong, but I’m guessing we probably won’t see a new campaign until devs issue a hotfix for some of the issues with the stats. Plus, Kathon said there was a bunch of rework to do since the layout of ground objects changed. So in other words, probably will be a bit.

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what is the TeamSpeak server address ?   New / old pilot from days of il2 with the switcher 4.08 to 4.09b  . so been a while , but now game is on sale and want to speak with some pilots before purchase .  Please Pm me an address for teamspeak or discord . please anyone

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Is the thread opened again? How is TAW's campaign built progressing?

 

Everyone seems to be waiting for this, you guys clearly have the best campaign!  

 

And how are your decisions towards technochat and warmup? Also, will the ground war become more important than pilots / planes killed? 

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Just caught up a bit on this thread.

 

Kind of surprised by all the technochat debate, because I didn't know that there were any plans to make this a server side config option. I would absolutely love to see that though.

I currently fly with technochat, and hud instruments off by default anyway, no matter which server I fly on.

 

The thing that appealed to me about the TAW server was it's reputation for being among the most hardcore servers available in the game. If I had an option to fly on a server that could enforce no hints / tips / technochat, or hud instruments (compass) that would almost certainly be my personal preferred option.

At the end of the day though all of our opinions do not matter. The only opinions that matter are the server admins, we either like it enough that we chose to join the server, or we don't, in which case we find another server which better suits out tastes. 

I just want to give a shout out to kathon and the rest of the admins, for all the hard work they do, for all of our entertainment.

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Server is running closed internal tests for a few days.

 

I haven't seen any option on the server side to turn off the technochat.

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=LG=Kathon

 

Do we have any hope to start it before the patch will come?

 

I mean..before 01.05.2018?

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Question - any word on AI aircraft Resupply with the up coming season? If we have ai trucks, why not ai aircraft?

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3 hours ago, JG7_X_Man said:

Question - any word on AI aircraft Resupply with the up coming season? If we have ai trucks, why not ai aircraft?

 

I think it is designed the way it is  to encourage us to try and look after our aircraft, as well as our virtual pilots. More readily available aircraft may translate into people playing more reckless, or never using anything but their personal favourites.

 

other servers have a similar system to what you describe though.

 

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 We need to wait until fixes come for online . !!!

I would love to see AI and smoke on the battlefields ,and if possible AAA fixed or toned down `` it's a mare for lone ground attacks or even a pair many many times shot down to AAA attacking targets at high speed or even tree top level and terrain masking and still AAA finds you .

AAA in the Blitz wasn't this good ..:wacko: what you guys think . 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, II./JG77_Con said:

I would love to see AI and smoke on the battlefields ,and if possible AAA fixed or toned down `` it's a mare for lone ground attacks or even a pair many many times shot down to AAA attacking targets at high speed or even tree top level and terrain masking and still AAA finds you .

AAA in the Blitz wasn't this good ..:wacko: what you guys think . 

 

I agree with you. But that encourage team work (I bet it's why the flak on TAW is quite strong). And also, when the sever is full or almost full > more big groups attacking ground targets > would be too easy if the flak is toned down. I think they made a good compromise compared to the regular/average population on the server.

 

Still I would like to see the flak reacting more slowly when you run the first pass (surprise effect). Especially when you do your best to fly on grass level at high speed to avoid it.

Edited by F/JG300_Faucon

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I think the flak should stay like it is. Otherwise its just a farmfest and those 40:5 ratios are haveing an even bigger impact. All the waffles are not even killing themselves then. That would be kinda boring. ;)

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