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Tactical Air War

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1 minute ago, kalbuth said:

Same argument as to avoid realistic simulation because that would scare away a certain crowd. That doesn't compute with me, you try to do a simulation or you keep it a game (and go the War Thunder way). People are here and on TAW server, instead of WT. They are the target audience, ain't they?

Well, that's just me but I don't see it as a good enough reason. People here for BoS and what it is would veeeery quickly see it's absolutely playable.

 

 

Maybe.  But what if Fenris is right?  What if the number imbalance in favor of Axis gets even worse?  How much of a simulation is 5-1 odds in favor of Axis?  Would a team-balance mechanism be acceptable to you?

 

If you want to have anybody to fly on TAW with, these are questions that need to be considered.

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Posted (edited)

ähm. actually the FW190a5 need the technochat the hardest as you have no gauge to tell you when the cylinderhead is overheating afaik!? the oil temp doesn't help there at all.

Edited by RedPaulshow2

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, RedPaulshow2 said:

ähm. actually the FW190a5 need the technochat the hardest as you have no gauge to tell you when the cylinderhead is overheating afaik!? the oil temp doesn't help there at all.

That's exactly the kind of issue I have. How was it IRL? (real question, if the only way to simulate is tech chat, why not, but I don't think tech chat is the answer). We have information that maybe shouldn't be there and allows us to fly more to certain limit. If you don't know exactly when it fries, you're less stressfull on the engine

Edited by kalbuth

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Why would it be more taxing on VVS pilots? VVS planes have more manual controls, but it is not like they benefit from the technochat hints more. It could be the opposite actually. With current engine damage modeling the "combat mode" and "emergency mode" warnings give axis pilots the ability to just fly barely under the warning limit. VVS planes can generally go full throttle anyway, just need to keep an eye on temps, which performance benefits are not as directly connected to the "combat mode" and "emergency mode" warnings of German planes.

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2 minutes ago, kalbuth said:

That's exactly the kind of issue I have. How was it IRL? (real question, if the only way to simulate is tech chat, why not, but I don't think tech chat is the answer). We have information that maybe shouldn't be there and allows us to fly more to certain limit. If you don't know exactly when it fries, you're less stressfull on the engine

anyone an idea, how it worked in reality? is there a dial missing in the sim? is the oil temp not correctly simulated, so that IRL it WOULD have been a reasonable indicator for an overheating cylinderhead?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

I agree with Removing some Parts of the Technochat, like "Engine Damage", "Overheat", "Gun Empty" etc. However, everything concerning your Controls should have at least some Sort of Technochat but get Rid of the Percentages, and if a Wheel or Relative Control is used: No Info on Position

 

That includes: 

  • Throttle (Lever Position with Visual Representation maybe as in Rise of Flight, maybe as a little 8 Position Lever Icon, however on Aircraft with "Gates" (190, Spitifre), breaking through the Gate should be represented as well)
  • RPM (Lever Position as mentioned Above, unless it's on a Wheel. Controls on a Wheel just "Increasing RPM" and "Decreasing RPM")
  • Mixture (Lever Position as with RPM) EDIT: Auto Mixture Positions "Mixture: Full/Auto Rich; Auto Lean; Cut Off" or as on some: "Mixture: Auto" and "Mixture Manual as on Spitfire and La-5"
  • Cowlings (On Aircraft with Wheels: only Message: "Cowling Opening" and "Cowling Closing", Lever: Visual Representation on a Slide or Icon; Notches and Buttons: "Cowls: Notch 1" etc.)
  • Flaps (On a Wheel or Hydraulic as in LaGG, 111 or 109: "Flaps Extending" and "Flaps Rectracting" , Pneumatic and Notched Flaps (Stuka, Sptifire, Yak) "Flaps Notch X" or "Flaps Up/Down")
  • Trim (At this Point you should have caught on to the System)
  • Gear (I-16 and F4F when it comes: "Winding the Gear Up/Down", All others: "Gear Lever: Up/Down Position" and wait for Wing Indicators or Lights

 

I think that is a System all can Agree on. 

 

Can you please tell me why you need this to fly a plane to or at his limits?

 

1. Throttle: you have a throttle and know the position and you see the mainfoldpressure, there you can see if you at cruse, combat or emergancy power.

2. RPM: You have your RPM instruments also like on point 1 you can hear it on what Throttle power or RPM your engine is running. Also you should know witch switch or button you push

    for up RPM or down RPM.

3. Mixture you also can see the lever and know the position for auto, rich and lean.

4. Cowlings: you have your lever or weels in the cockpit. if you have it on a button you should also know the buttons to push and for how mutch open/close you can cound the seconds

    how long you push the button. Also you see on the temp instruments, if you close/open them to much or to less.

5. Flaps: you can see it in some planes in the cockpit some outside of the cockpit and if you dont see something, again count the seconds you need to push your buttons.

6. Trim: You can see also in the cockpit in some planes and even without seeing something in the cockpit you can trimm your plane very good inflight as you still can see it with

     neutral controls inflight how you have to trim. also if you use buttons count the seconds you need to pushj your buttons.

7. Gear: You see the weel in the cockpit at the handle if not count the seconds you need.

 

Doesent matter if red or blue plane, know the settings for cruse, combat and emergancy ( Pressure RPM) and the temps, all this settings you can see in all cockpits.

For trim gear flaps, when you dont have instruments or lights count the seconts you need to push your buttons. Ok for this you need to know how long it takes from

close to open or from low to high RPM etc. And you can fly all planes without any techchat, works in 1946, Cliffs of Dover, DCS and BoX. Of corse you need to know from the start to the landing all the time your actual settings of cooler , RPM, etc. ( Specialy for temps you see when you open/close the coolers to mutch or to lees, temp will go down or up ) and how long you need to push the button in one or the other direction to get the right settings. And of corse it is hard for the planes without the technology advantage like the most german planes have and it is even harder for a twin engine plane. And damn you need to watch more your instrumets and settings in the cockpit than you can look outsid, makes things mutch harder than only wait for the info: you are overheating.

Also it takes a long time to learn even from one side to fly all planes like this but it is possible and ads a little more stress to the flyingcircus we have :biggrin:.

 

And you can bet i killed a lot of E-1,E-3 in Cliffs of Dover on manual mode before i could fly them to there limits without techchat and i will kill a lot of of P-38 and  Tempest Mk.V in BoX till i can fly them to the max without techchat. This will be the 2 red birds i would fly online ond TaW, because i love them, as fighter and groundpounder. The red planes i have now i can also fly without techchat at there settings  but would never say that i have the knowleg to fight with them at the setting limits . Would need way more time to learn it. But for this 2 red planes i would take me the time.

 

regards

 

Little_D

Edited by 1./JG2_Little_D
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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

Why would it be more taxing on VVS pilots? VVS planes have more manual controls, but it is not like they benefit from the technochat hints more. It could be the opposite actually. With current engine damage modeling the "combat mode" and "emergency mode" warnings give axis pilots the ability to just fly barely under the warning limit. VVS planes can generally go full throttle anyway, just need to keep an eye on temps, which performance benefits are not as directly connected to the "combat mode" and "emergency mode" warnings of German planes.

 

 

Not in IL-2s, not in the La-5s, not in the Pe-2s, not in the A-20, not in the MiG.

 

Regardless, I really don't care who benefits more.  I care about the team balance in favor of Axis not getting worse.  If removing technochat does make it worse, as I suspect it might(even if Axis actually benefit from it more) , then a team-balance mechanic would be needed.

 

In a perfect world technochat would be disabled and there would be more-or-less balanced teams.  But...

Edited by 7.GShAP/Silas

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

Not in IL-2s, not in the La-5s, not in the Pe-2s, not in the A-20, not in the MiG.

 

So how do these planes you mentioned benefit more from technochat than, say Bf-109E7, He-111H6 or Ju-87D3 or Bf110E2? 

Why would the current Mig-3, La-5 or Il-2 players decide to start flying 109's, 110's or Ju87's, if we take technochats away from them?

Edited by II./JG77_Kemp

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Just now, II./JG77_Kemp said:

 

So how do these planes you mentioned benefit more theom technochat than say Bf-109E7, He-111H2 or Ju-87D3 or Bf110E2? 

Why would the current Mig-3, La-5 or Il-2 players decide to start flying 109's, 110's or Ju87's, if we take technochats away from them?

 

 

I don't fly those Axis aircraft, I have no idea.  I think the VVS playerbase is more vulnerable to these kinds of changes, partially because a larger proportion of people who fly VVS are part-timers. 

 

That's really not even my point, as I said.  If removing technochat makes the balance worse than it already is, then what?  Is team-balance acceptable to you?  You want to have people to fly with, right?

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Hm, I don't mind not having technochat all that much. Only thing that will be tedious and annoying is figuring out at what setting radiators and mixture are. I guess it's easy if you have a big hotas with loads of axis, I don't.

 

Are cold engine starts going to stay?

 

:salute:

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AFAIK this talking is moot anyway as we don't have the "no technochat" option yet :)

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It's about as stupid as looking at your stick to see what Gear you're in. 

Removing Technochat is Gamey and adds nothing to Realism. Most of the Real Pilots here would agree with me. 

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3 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

It's about as stupid as looking at your stick to see what Gear you're in. 

Removing Technochat is Gamey and adds nothing to Realism. Most of the Real Pilots here would agree with me. 

 

You're being sarcastic, right?

 

Funny, the real-life pilot that I know in this thread has already stated he's all for the removal of techno-chat.  I'm sorry that you will have to look at your gauges now!

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44 minutes ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

 

So how do these planes you mentioned benefit more from technochat than, say Bf-109E7, He-111H6 or Ju-87D3 or Bf110E2? 

Why would the current Mig-3, La-5 or Il-2 players decide to start flying 109's, 110's or Ju87's, if we take technochats away from them?

The most important as for performance are the settings on fighters which are dogfighting (for bombers if you set up all the radiators, pitches  etc slightly betters or worse it doesnt matter so much and you dont need to change it so frequently as on fighter during the fight)  and  somehow You failed to mention the most played fighters Me 109 F2,4; G2,4,6, FW190a3 where the only thing You must observe is the ATA... (even on ME110e2 You've got only the radiators which have few fixed settings which are indicated on gauge in cabin)

Where on already inferior and slower russian planes to fly them at least a bit competetive You must set up the radiators very accuretly to gain all speed you can and there are no gauges which will tell you your current set up of the radiators.

 

So yes this will hit russian side more than the germans and you'll see that even less people will fly the red side.

 

But anyway for me its no problem if they remove it 

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39 minutes ago, Psyrion said:

Hm, I don't mind not having technochat all that much. Only thing that will be tedious and annoying is figuring out at what setting radiators and mixture are. I guess it's easy if you have a big hotas with loads of axis, I don't.

 

Are cold engine starts going to stay?

 

:salute:

 

Of cours it is hard without the right hardware. But this says nothing about that you need technochat.

Its the same with track Ir or people that control the view over mouse. or if you can run the game in VR or on 3 Monitors in high settings.

As better the hardware is, as better this game is and more you can do without needing an F-18 HuD.

 

32 minutes ago, kalbuth said:

AFAIK this talking is moot anyway as we don't have the "no technochat" option yet :)

 

Maby we should ask the Devs for this posibillity

 

9 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

It's about as stupid as looking at your stick to see what Gear you're in. 

Removing Technochat is Gamey and adds nothing to Realism. Most of the Real Pilots here would agree with me. 

 

LoL, when my squadmate invite me to fly with him in his real plane, he was constaly cheching his settings watch his instruments adjust them and watched outside and repeted the check.

No F-18 HuD. I dont even talk about the checklist he goes thrue beforeeven engine start and take off inflight and landing taxiing after flight etc.

 

regards

 

Little_D

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55 minutes ago, 1./JG2_Little_D said:

 

3. Mixture you also can see the lever and know the position for auto, rich and lean.

4. Cowlings: you have your lever or weels in the cockpit. if you have it on a button you should also know the buttons to push and for how mutch open/close you can cound the seconds

    how long you push the button. Also you see on the temp instruments, if you close/open them to much or to less.5.  

 

Yaks and LaGG do not have auto rich settings, you need to manually adjust them with altitude, around 10% less each 1000m above 4000 meters , and 20% less at 8000 and 9000 meters

 

IRL pilots could tell what was the correct  mixture setting as the engine reacted accordingly both in sounds/vibrations and RPM indicator fluctuation. This isn't present in BoX currently, a change as  little as 10% in the control isn't possible to time effectively with buttons, same for the radiators if one aims to use the ideal position such as the lowest drag setting in the Yak-7B and P-39L, 45% and 60% respectively. If you only go by temperature alones you will be getting a slower plane at higher altitudes because of closing the rads too much.

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22 minutes ago, Carl_infar said:

somehow You failed to mention the most played fighters Me 109 F2,4; G2,4,6, FW190a3 where the only thing You must observe is the ATA...

 

I failed to mention Yak and Lagg also by name, but obviously these were the primary planes I meant, when I said that technochat will tell axis pilots when they are in combat or emergency mode, while VVS (Yak and Lagg, if you like names) can go full throttle.

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Have I ever said you shouldn't check your Instruments? 

 

I already said that the Precise Percentages should go away, Warnings as well, and that only the Control Inputs should be Technochatted realistically.

 

Telling People to put their Eyes away from Flying and look at the Wheels and Levers they are turning is just absolutely ridiculous and Gamey as Hell. 

 

A 5 to 8 Position Visual Throttle Confirmation would suffice, giving just the Necessary Information without making use of Instruments unnecessary. 

 

Not everybody has a 2000$ Quadrant Setup with everything on the Stick and a Flight Seat, some People have a T-16000M, a 3 Way Throttle Quadrant and a Keyboard. And the Slider on the T16000M has about 3.5cm of Range, so Technochat is Vital. 

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4 minutes ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

 

I failed to mention Yak and Lagg also by name, but obviously these were the primary planes I meant, when I said that technochat will tell axis pilots when they are in combat or emergency mode, while VVS (Yak and Lagg, if you like names) can go full throttle.

You only need your ears in 109/190 to have an idea of your regime, and you double-check visually (gauges and regime numbers knowledge) from time to time. There is no need to have the regime written. That's far more truth to real, imho. In this very case, 109 regime, techno chat as implemented right now is an unneeded clutch.

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5 minutes ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

 

Yaks and LaGG do not have auto rich settings, you need to manually adjust them with altitude, around 10% less each 1000m above 4000 meters , and 20% less at 8000 and 9000 meters

 

IRL pilots could tell what was the correct  mixture setting as the engine reacted accordingly both in sounds/vibrations and RPM indicator fluctuation. This isn't present in BoX currently, a change as  little as 10% in the control isn't possible to time effectively with buttons, same for the radiators if one aims to use the ideal position such as the lowest drag setting in the Yak-7B and P-39L, 45% and 60% respectively. If you only go by temperature alones you will be getting a slower plane at higher altitudes because of closing the rads too much.

 

You are right about that, but you realy think that they control all the time there planes with perfect settings? Like you do with techchat? Also there is an other way you maby could use.

You know the % you need for your settings in cruse, combat and emergancy also the temps you can operate with. So why not check how many % a click on a button is or how many seconds you need to push the button to get x%? for Coolers, mixture, flaps etc. It worksalso in BoX. Of couse you need to know and remamber your actual settings. But normaly you should know what cooler, miture etc. settings you have for cruse, for fight and emergancy. So in cruse after take off as example you klick x time for cooler cruse settings etc. in fight you switch to fight and back or to emergancy. You need to remamber what settings you had before.

 

Ok for this you need the hardware and the time to learn it. If somebody realy whant to fly the planes without F-18 HuD.

 

regards

 

LittleD

 

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26 minutes ago, Carl_infar said:

Where on already inferior and slower russian planes to fly them at least a bit competetive You must set up the radiators very accuretly to gain all speed you can and there are no gauges which will tell you your current set up of the radiators.

 

You mean that russian pilots set their radiators by technochat messages? While a bit surprising, let's assume you are right. You think optimal performance for VVS fighters come from getting their engines overheated, getting a warning, and then opening radiators extra much or take other actions to cool down everheated engine? You think it gives bigger benefit to VVS pilots than Axis being able to set their throttle just barely below emergency or combat warnings to optimize performance? I choose to disagree.

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2 minutes ago, kalbuth said:

You only need your ears in 109/190 to have an idea of your regime, and you double-check visually (gauges and regime numbers knowledge) from time to time. There is no need to have the regime written. That's far more truth to real, imho. In this very case, 109 regime, techno chat as implemented right now is an unneeded clutch.

 You believe every average and not-so-average pilot is able to separate from the 1 RPM to keep engine below emergency level, for example, like they are able now with the technochat warnings?

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6 minutes ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

 You believe every average and not-so-average pilot is able to separate from the 1 RPM to keep engine below emergency level, for example, like they are able now with the technochat warnings?

Hi Kemp,

i dont think so, but look at the RPM instrument and reduse ATA till you loose 100- 150 RPM and you have your 1 - 2 % works fine. No techchat needed, same goes for combat mode :biggrin:.

 

regards

 

Little_D

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2 minutes ago, 1./JG2_Little_D said:

Hi Kemp,

i dont think so, but look at the RPM instrument and reduse ATA till you loose 100- 150 RPM and you have your 1 - 2 % works fine. No techchat needed, same goes for combat mode :biggrin:.

 

regards

 

Little_D

 

The discussion is wether removing technochat gives axis extra benefit compared to VVS. I can't see that. While it is easy even for a total noob to move his throttle in axis plane to get out of "red" warning, removing technochat would run a risk of either running underpowered or cooking your engine in one minute. There are no such risks for VVS planes and really using "overheating" messages as guides for adjusting your radiators, throttle or RPM in the middle of combat does not lead to optimal performance.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, 1./JG2_Little_D said:

Hi Kemp,

i dont think so, but look at the RPM instrument and reduse ATA till you loose 100- 150 RPM and you have your 1 - 2 % works fine. No techchat needed, same goes for combat mode :biggrin:.

 

regards

 

Big Arse

You just assume everybody has a High Value Setup with Axis for everything. If you have a complete Cockpit Setup at home, having no Technochat is mostly OK, especially if your Potis and Sensors and Buttons work Flawlessly and Reliably. 

I rather spend my Money on Real Flying. And I virtually never look below my Instrument Panel, I don't look at my Throttle Lever, my Mixture or Fuel Selector or Cowl Lever unless something is very Wrong. 

I also don't look at the Gear Lever or Flap Switch, I do however confirm by looking at the Lights and Indicators. 

 

Having a Low Resolution, Visual HUD Throttle Indicator is very much what you would normally feel with your Rough Hand Position on the Throttle. The Percentages are Stupid, but just a Vague Visual Aid would be useful and not detract from the Experience. 

 

 

Only Axis Fighters draw a tiny benefit from it. Axis Bombers and Attackers have all the same Controls as VVS except Mixture. 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

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Posted (edited)

 

No i dont have a cockpit at home, i fly on a six year old I7 3770K with gtx 680 4GB, 16 GB Ram, Track IR Rudderpedals. Since 6 month i have Warthog system, before an X52. And for all this i need a lot of year to get the hardware together and to hold my mony. I would love to suport BoX more and to buy not in special sell or do a preorder. but i dont work for me as there is a wife and kids :biggrin:. But i also start with 30€ stick with little throttle, 1  headswitch for view , some buttons and tastatur. I also could use the stick as rudder. Still flying and fighting without techchat.

 

I think its more about the time you want to spent in this simulation. The other thing is in the beginning for me, it was 1946 you could hear the people we want more realisem in FM, DM, more complexer engine management, more realistic engine parameters etc.,  with Cliffs of Dover we got  the next level, but than more and more people start to fly with helps on. On online servers that where before without helps at all,  as so called Full Real Server. Now with BoX, that is for most people here the next level over Cliffs of Dover, even more people fly with more helps on. So whey the hell everybodey wants more realisem in FM, DM, more complexer engine management, more realistic engine parameters etc. and are than not able or not willing to learn the next level,  insteed they fly with an F-18 HuD.

Makes no sence to me, but maby i am only tol old for this shit :biggrin:.

 

I realy would love to see what would happens when we could get back the "Full Real" Servers with nothing on, no infochat, no kill infos, no GPS.

I we realy would have a empty server or if somthing different would happend as it did in 1946. When you recocnised that you are not good enouth

to fly on a Full Real Server. And this is no offens at all. I start flying with infochat on offline and killed every thing than i went on a Full Real Server and

get my ass kicked for month till i learn to fly the planes without any HuD. What happen on a server like this? There where more disziplin on the servers,

no team killing,  no cross starts or other stupid thinks. Mutch better ID etc. Why because when you spend your time to learn to fly a sim, insteed of using

F-18 HuD, you also have the time to ID right or do all the other stuff right. Simmer or gamer.

 

 

 

regards

 

Little_D

 

 

Edited by 1./JG2_Little_D
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Klaus isn't against instrument checking, but some hardware setup lacks positional feedback, I can agree with that

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1 hour ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

 

You mean that russian pilots set their radiators by technochat messages? While a bit surprising, let's assume you are right. You think optimal performance for VVS fighters come from getting their engines overheated, getting a warning, and then opening radiators extra much or take other actions to cool down everheated engine? You think it gives bigger benefit to VVS pilots than Axis being able to set their throttle just barely below emergency or combat warnings to optimize performance? I choose to disagree.

That's the whole point, IRL pilots had neither a "you're in emergency mode" or "beware high temperature" messages, the needed some other clues, sound, needles somewhere in cockpit, etc... which mean they had some degree of knowledge and some instrument checking (and that mean, out of pure combat time, in a way) that was needed. They couldn't be so precise as to know which exact percentage of max power they were on, so, since some of this information was lacking, they were simply less aggressive, unless the situation required them to take a bet and try to push the limits.

That makes us behave differently, and since the actual clue (in this case, sound and needles) ARE PRESENT in the sim, I don't see the reason for us to have that information elsewhere. And if that benefits more VVS than LW, or the opposite, SO BE IT, it was the way it was back then!

"I can't know precisely my power setting" isn't an argument, "I can't know as precisely as RL pilot could" is a far better one.

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Posted (edited)

That, too, but OTOH this setup pushes us for more realistic behavior. I agree with limits, but they are too strict atm

 

And btw some are logical. Overrevving an engine is an instant dead engine. So extreme RPM can result in catastrophic events.

 

EDIT : and we're getting wayy offtopic :P

Edited by kalbuth

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12 minutes ago, kalbuth said:

That's the whole point, IRL pilots had neither a "you're in emergency mode" or "beware high temperature" messages, the needed some other clues, sound, needles somewhere in cockpit, etc... which mean they had some degree of knowledge and some instrument checking (and that mean, out of pure combat time, in a way) that was needed. They couldn't be so precise as to know which exact percentage of max power they were on, so, since some of this information was lacking, they were simply less aggressive, unless the situation required them to take a bet and try to push the limits.

That makes us behave differently, and since the actual clue (in this case, sound and needles) ARE PRESENT in the sim, I don't see the reason for us to have that information elsewhere. And if that benefits more VVS than LW, or the opposite, SO BE IT, it was the way it was back then!

"I can't know precisely my power setting" isn't an argument, "I can't know as precisely as RL pilot could" is a far better one.

 

+1

 

10 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

And their Engines wouldn't blow up after 1 Minute of Emergency. 

 

Not at all, as an example the109G-6 i can fly on full power for about 2 - 3 min. Depents on Speed and RPM. The realy little speed loose is in a situation where i have to run is compensated over the time i can run under higher limits. Even when you cant run in a G-6 :biggrin:. But works for all the other 109 with extra power. For the time, i have the clock. If i make a mistake on RPM, speed or read the clock wrong in the heat of the fight, i kill my engine, as they did. Also you so get a little more realisem with unexpected engin damages, no more all time new engines, but this would be one of the last positive points for no HuD at all.

 

If you still need some info about that you move your throttle, your flaps, coolers etc, because you dont have a throttle or some other hardware missing ok, nothing more. Even when you dont need it at all.

 

regards

 

Little_D

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The one WWII Pilot ZG26 had the Opportunity to Speak to never gave a [edited] about the Limits. He used the Power needed whenever he needed it and once the Threat was eliminated would go back to normal. Neither did the German Pilots. And this was Part and Parcel of flying in a War. 

 

So until the ingame RNG is replaced with a Realistic Solution I will keep the Technochat. 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 16.3.2018 at 1:39 PM, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

 

It would be good if you could choose what to show and what to hide. For  example there are controls like radiators that  don't have status indicators in the planes and are controlled by rotating wheels, its not possible to determine how much you are opening them if you dont have them in an axis, while the real pilots did as they operated them manually.

 

You could use the techchat to finde out how many clicks are how many % or 1 sec. is x%. As you over the techchat know what % you need to hold as an example the temps at cruse, combat or emergancy settings for the coolers. You know over time or clicks on button/tastatur the % you give as imput. Also you need over the hole flight all the time your current and latest settings in your mind. The only thing is to learn it, spend the time and get used to it, than you will never fly different again. is the same as mouse or button view vs Track IR or Track IR VS VR. You need to learn it and get used to it.

 

This is how i fly the E-7 with the rads manual without looking at the winginfo, takes to mutch time to zoom in, in a fight, maby this explane it better

What i know is how the watercooler handle loocks and at witch position it is in open, close, climb, cruse, combat, emergance and emergancy run

settings to hold the water cool. I know how many turns the handle need to get in the positions. But i kno also how many klicks the settings have

between each other. So as i know that at start my coolers are open or close depents on weather. i know exactly how many klicks i need to come to

climb settings or all the other settings. So no problem there have the right cooler settings for all sitations. Looking at the handle is only a quick chek

if needed, but not realy nessesary. Same goes for flaps and trim and for all planes.

 

regards

 

Little_D

Edited by 1./JG2_Little_D

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So I think this debate is running in circles.  Yes, it's doable, and not ideal for all manipulative controls in cockpit.  Got it.

 

The focus should remain, no matter how YOU as an individual feel, what will happen to the disparity in numbers.  Because it's super duper if you're an axis pilot and cool with this idea.  But you're running two risks in this change (a change that I individually support and think would be fun as a VVS pilot):

 

1) You drive VVS pilots, who don't want to take the time to learn every nanometer of each plane away.

 

2) Those that enjoy TAW but only fly VVS to even sides a bit will find the benefit is now outweighed by the "unnecessary" effort required, and switch to Axis.

 

Again, it doesn't matter what IS, only the PERCEPTION.  And whether you like it or not, the PERCEPTION that VVS is harder to fly is there.  And it at least needs to be considered.

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51 minutes ago, =BES=Coyote-66 said:

1) You drive VVS pilots, who don't want to take the time to learn every nanometer of each plane away.

 

Maybe I am the only one, but I don't really see how having or removing technochat affects learning the VVS planes that much. Even now you have to learn how they work and it is not like you just accidentally end up in a boost mode in Mig-3 for example. You have to take very concious action to enter boost mode, so the boost message should not come as a surprise like "oops, throttle in this position brings a warning, let's throttle back". The only "oops" warning that comes to mind for VVS fighters is the overheating and I think that most VVS pilots that fly current "realistic" level have already figured out that monitoring temps is an important matter and generally keep an eye on temps before these warnings already now.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, =BES=Coyote-66 said:

So I think this debate is running in circles.  Yes, it's doable, and not ideal for all manipulative controls in cockpit.  Got it.

 

The focus should remain, no matter how YOU as an individual feel, what will happen to the disparity in numbers.  Because it's super duper if you're an axis pilot and cool with this idea.  But you're running two risks in this change (a change that I individually support and think would be fun as a VVS pilot):

 

1) You drive VVS pilots, who don't want to take the time to learn every nanometer of each plane away.

 

2) Those that enjoy TAW but only fly VVS to even sides a bit will find the benefit is now outweighed by the "unnecessary" effort required, and switch to Axis.

 

Again, it doesn't matter what IS, only the PERCEPTION.  And whether you like it or not, the PERCEPTION that VVS is harder to fly is there.  And it at least needs to be considered.

 

What extra effort is involved when flying a plane in this game, from either side, without techno chat? All that is being asked of people when techno chat is turned off is to look to a different place for the same information. I'm sure we could find all kinds of people who rely more on the gauges in the dash than on the techno chat to manage even the most complex engines in the game, the P-39 and 40 for example, or the Duck and Stuka on the German side. I know I look down for that info in those planes more than I look to techno chat.

 

And why would you conclude that people who feel it is overly burdensome to learn how to look at a dial on a board would switch to the German side? The problem of having to look at dials will exist on that side too. Why would it make sense to anyone to switch sides to avoid a problem when the problem is still there after the switch? If anything this change should simply drive people, from both sides, from the server; if indeed it has any negative effect at all. I would think that there will be no significant change in player numbers due to this, for one simple reason: players on this server have been asked to do a harder task already and have stayed. On TAW you have to navigate by compass and time/speed or by observing the terrain around you and comparing it to the map. Do you really think that people who put up with this "unnecessary" effort to simply figure out where they are will shrink from the task of looking down and seeing where a pointer points and comparing that with numbers out of a tech manual they are given with every plane? I don't think that will be an issue.

Edited by Disarray
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2 hours ago, =BES=Coyote-66 said:

So I think this debate is running in circles.  Yes, it's doable, and not ideal for all manipulative controls in cockpit.  Got it.

 

The focus should remain, no matter how YOU as an individual feel, what will happen to the disparity in numbers.  Because it's super duper if you're an axis pilot and cool with this idea.  But you're running two risks in this change (a change that I individually support and think would be fun as a VVS pilot):

 

1) You drive VVS pilots, who don't want to take the time to learn every nanometer of each plane away.

 

2) Those that enjoy TAW but only fly VVS to even sides a bit will find the benefit is now outweighed by the "unnecessary" effort required, and switch to Axis.

 

Again, it doesn't matter what IS, only the PERCEPTION.  And whether you like it or not, the PERCEPTION that VVS is harder to fly is there.  And it at least needs to be considered.

 

 

This, absolutely.

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Gents,

 

I relish the opportunity and congratulate the TAW server for trying to take this sim to the next level. I have been playing in WOL with techno off to try and better understand what is happening with the instruments, otherwise the developers perhaps should not have even bothered trying to make a cockpit as we could have all used the techno chat. However, having a server that turns it off for all, I believe is leveling the playing field for all players and allowing us an opportunity to now test not only navigating and dog-fighting skills, but more importantly playing (flying) the aircraft, as being able to fly the aircraft is the most important element of flight.  I use to play CLOD, and most players were able to manage without GPS, techno chat, therefore, lets give it a go here in TAW!

That said, allowing a whole campaign having no techno chat, could be used to gauge players reactions to know if it should become the norm on subsequent campaigns, therefore, nobody should be afraid to embrace this.

 

Regards

 

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On 3/15/2018 at 6:22 PM, =LG=Padre said:

I assure you that we plan to remove technochat as soon as possible. I do not know if this possibility exists after new patch releas, but if so, the new campaigns will be without technochat. 

 

I would pay just for this........

 

Jason...?

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