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Both sides of this “chute killing” debate have gotten just silly. If you’re trying to make the claim it wins maps, it doesn’t, you’re just finding an excuse to be an unsportsmanlike jerk. If a map is won by pilot kills, the few people that are shot before clicking out in 15 secs didn’t tip things, it’s never that close.

 

If you’re trying to make the argument it’s a “war crime”, or at least a a simulation of one, you sound just as ridiculous. I’m not going to get into how this is a video game, or even how historically Germany and Russia never signed accords between each other about what constituted a war crime. In the end, it’s clear that you are just making a weak argument because you don’t like being shot in your chute, are frustrated, and can’t find a better reason to have a server ban something that the game mechanics allow.

 

Disclaimer: There is a very small handful of flyers on TAW that if I’m pretty sure they are dangling in a chute in front of me, I will light them up. They made that short list by doing it to me repeatedly. Never did it in prior to TAW, but that doesn’t matter much.

 

For the most part, though, I happily fly past chutes of downed enemies all the time, considering the fight done and checking my 6. I think in the end TAW is a mix of many different cultures, which is great, but our idea of sportsmanship clearly differs. 

 

Respect it’s part of the game, times and attitudes have changed from early flight sim days, and if you get your kicks by being an online jerk, by all means have some fun with chutes. Just don’t forgot what you did when you find others targeting you or not wanting to fly on your wing/clear your 6, because it’s clear what type of general player, or maybe even person, you are.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, HenHawk said:

Both sides of this “chute killing” debate have gotten just silly. If you’re trying to make the claim it wins maps, it doesn’t, you’re just finding an excuse to be an unsportsmanlike jerk. If a map is won by pilot kills, the few people that are shot before clicking out in 15 secs didn’t tip things, it’s never that close.

 

 

 

 

Last map was literally won by a hairs breath by pilots before axis got the fields. 


And yes, general mentality of last day in the TAW ts on the red side was to shoot it until its splattered on the ground, anything that pops out, kill it. 

One map rotation alone we scored 20 confirmed chute kills by the Russian TS participants. That was when axis had ~80 left.

 

That was when the scrip decided to up the plane count by another 200 or so, so it was literally only way to win the map before the axis would have pushed our fields.

 

So it do matter. 

 

And no, we did not do it to be jerks, tho we were salty by the constant US tz unopposed pushing of our fields. We did it to win a map, if it would have not been a win condition, i doubt many of us would have been arsed to risk his neck for a chance to shoot at the chute. 

Edited by Cpt_Siddy

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look at the statistics.
http://taw.stg2.de/missions.php
in the mission 459 was the one that more blue pilots died in the last day and they were 29, you want to tell me that of those 29, 20 died in the parachute?
Sorry but mem seems pretty dusky

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, HR_Eldamar said:


in the mission 459 was the one that more blue pilots died in the last day and they were 29, you want to tell me that of those 29, 20 died in the parachute?
Sorry but mem seems pretty dusky

 

I don't know, possibility exist as literally whole Russian ts was thirsting for blood and blood accessories on the final day. 

Perhaps i should have used confirmed kills instead of chute kills as not all were chute kills, but the sentiment was that "crash the plane, with no survivors".

 

 

 

Edited by Cpt_Siddy

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16 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

 

I don't know, possibility exist as literally whole Russian ts was thirsting for blood and blood accessories on the final day. 

Perhaps i should have used confirmed kills instead of chute kills as not all were chute kills, but the sentiment was that "crash the plane, with no survivors".

 

 

 

 

Red didn’t win that map or any other by shooting chutes. There was a gap between pilot kills way before that last mission, and there is no way Reds killed 20 people in chutes in one mission in any case. You said it several times yourself. You were “blood thirsty” and “salty” your airfields were shutdown. So you took your online anger out by doing something in a game you knew would piss off Blue, which is pretty much the definition of unsportsmanlike behavior. Sounds like you tried to justify it all by hiding behind pilot kills being a winning criteria, but that was decided long ago and most pilot deaths I almost guarantee were from ground fire.

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We literally made a point to accelerate that "gap" on last few days because after the plane additions and constant superior numbers, it was clear to us all on the red team that it was our only hope.

 

Seriously, why you keep arguing the UNDENIABLE point that axis lost by losing all pilots, when reds had 2 active fields left. 

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

We literally made a point to accelerate that "gap" on last few days because after the plane additions and constant superior numbers, it was clear to us all on the red team that it was our only hope.

 

Seriously, why you keep arguing the UNDENIABLE point that axis lost by losing all pilots, when reds had 2 active fields left. 

 

LW still needed 247 pilot kills, 357 planes, or to shutdown/capture 2-3 more airfields by time map finished. Red coordinated efforts to just do fighter screens and down Blue planes is what won the map, not messily number of pilot deaths from people that couldn’t click out in time. There was no way Blue was winning that map, it was inevitable after the push to shutdown all the fields stalled. But you can keep convincing yourself it made a difference and didn’t have anything to do with that little thrill you got from pissing someone off. Your argument just sounds ridiculous to the rest of us, which is my original point. You’re not fooling anyone, we know why you do it, stop pretending it’s for any other reason. Rules support your unsportsmanlike behavior, so why try to cover it up?

Edited by HenHawk

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>we totally did not lost because we ran out of pilots it was the fighter screen that kept killing our pilots so we ran out of pilots but totally didint lose because we ran out of pilots.

 

Henny, please...

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

>we totally did not lost because we ran out of pilots it was the fighter screen that kept killing our pilots so we ran out of pilots but totally didint lose because we ran out of pilots.

 

Henny, please...

I don’t even understand what you’re trying to say. Of course Blue lost the map on pilot kills. Reds all took up fighters and downed planes, Blue kept attacking useless tank columns and got pk’d by flak. A handful of Blue were killed in chutes. Takeout the chute kills, Blue would have still lost on pilot kills. My point is not that pilot kills aren’t a deciding factor, chute killing is what I’m saying is not a deciding factor. So if it’s not a deciding factor, then why pretend you do it for any reason than to just piss someone off? Having a pilot out of action for 5 mins would be a better argument. The fact that is barely made tells me again you’re main reason is [edited]

 

7. Comments containing profanity, personal insults, accusations of cheating, excessive rudeness, vulgarity, drug propaganda, political and religious discussion and propaganda, all manifestations of Nazism and racist statements, calls to overthrow governments by force, inciting ethnic hatred, humiliation of persons of a particular gender, sexual orientation or religion are not allowed and will result in a ban.

Edited by SYN_Haashashin

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Posted (edited)

>blue lost to the map due to pilot kills but the extra effort red team put in accelerating pilot loss played no role

 

This is your argument. 

 

My argument is, it did. We took more risks to secure the pilot kill. We considered that even 1 for 1 trade in pilots is a win at that point. 


Personally, i did not bother with chutes or taking the extra effort to down a plane after i smoked it. It is a move that put you at risk for retaliation... Not  before the final squeeze in last few days anyhow, when it became clear that only realistic goal was to kill off pilots.

 

[edited]

 

7. Comments containing profanity, personal insults, accusations of cheating, excessive rudeness, vulgarity, drug propaganda, political and religious discussion and propaganda, all manifestations of Nazism and racist statements, calls to overthrow governments by force, inciting ethnic hatred, humiliation of persons of a particular gender, sexual orientation or religion are not allowed and will result in a ban.

Edited by SYN_Haashashin

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Posted (edited)

No worries, Sid, keep flaming chutes, I don’t care. I’ll just add you to my short list and will flame yours when you go down. I’ll be doing it just to piss you off, I won’t be doing it to pretend it might help win the map or some other weak argument.

 

And I hope the other side of this topic stops arguing it’s a “war crime” and some other nonsense. This whole debate is so old and boring.

Edited by HenHawk

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Henny, i dont farm stats, i push objectives, cover ground pounders and play to win.

 

If you want to put yourself in a position where an passing by IL2 can shoot you [edited] off just to get my chute, go ahead :^) 

 

Just a note, ive manged to kill maybe 4 chutes in this whole campaign, all on the last map. I fly in VR, and it is impossibly hard to even aim at the tiny pixel that is supposed to be a pilot. It requires me to slow my speed and steady my flight and expose myself. If you seriously think that i have been doing this for other reason than dire necessity, you are indeed more hen than a hawk, perhaps as bad as 95:5 ratio.

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Сan we expect a historical planeset or is the server running along the "balance" line? The appearance on the front of the aircraft in accordance with the dates of their first combat use - in the latest edition of the description of the aircraft, these dates have finally added:

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, 1/JSpan_Guerrero said:

 

Thanks -IRRE-Biluf. I did not know that this issue had already been surveyed, and it was already clear what was the opinion and the majority of the community. 70% NO 29% YES Lighter water.

 

Go read up on statistics and accurate polling and get back to us when you realize how utterly pointless the results of that poll are.

Edited by 19//curiousGamblerr

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Posted (edited)
On 8/3/2018 at 1:35 PM, Cpt_Siddy said:

Just for the sake of "realism" argument. 

 

Do any of you really think either side would shed a tear, or lift a finger if someone among their ranks actively pursued chute kills? 

 

Mind you, one side held other side in utter contempt as a undermench, humans just barely worth to keep alive as slaves in the future development of acquired lebensraum and no doubht disposed at a later date. At the earliest convenience of the Reich, no doubt.

And the other side was literally fighting for the survival of their fledgling state that had barely existed for two decades, just freed form the land slavery under tsar of oppressive, undemocratic Russian empire. 

 

I doubt you found lots of sympathy for the devils from either side of the aisle.


It's a video game mate. [edited]

Edited by SYN_Haashashin
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Honestly, I think shooting chutes just for winning is worse than shooting with the intent of being a dick....

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I suppose I'm a little confused as to why we're still having an argument based on anecdotal evidence. And, anecdotal evidence that is sketchy at best. If I were making such a stink about something I would want to make sure that I'm absolutely certain that what I'm seeing is actually what is happening.

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2 hours ago, Staiger said:

Honestly, I think shooting chutes just for winning is worse than shooting with the intent of being a dick....

 

It's right up there with Alt+F4ing your way out of a bad situation.

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4 minutes ago, [TWB]dillon_biz said:

 

It's right up there with Alt+F4ing your way out of a bad situation.

 

Just so nobody misses the joke, its funny because Staiger is the ultimate disco queen

 

 

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LOL I aint even said any names and you guys go personal, grow up.

 

If alt+f4 gets you that much, ill do it everytime i know its you, I dont mind ;)

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What a bunch of babies crying about being killed in a wargame, usually directly after exterminating some number of little digital lives themselves.  It's an interesting set of mental gymnastics to make yourself a victim after adding up all those sweet kills to your streak.  And of course all talk of e-honor and sportsmanship stops when it's 50 Axis vs. 20 VVS.

 

I've practically never not been shot in my chute or strafed on the ground in all my time flying BOS since early access, so I don't know where everyone has been hiding that this shocks them.  I recently had a 109 pilot cannon my limp dead body on the ground so intently that he flew into trees and killed himself.  I also recently had a carousel of ~5 aircraft circle my crashed aircraft and take turns strafing me.  I even had an AI crewed 88 shoot me dead directly as I descended in my chute.  C'est la guerrejeu.  I guess the AI understands that someone can't bomb a bunch of people and then cry when they aren't given the red carpet treatment.

 

P.S. For your information, propellers don't work on chutes, you just clip through: bWFz9kl.png

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Staiger said:

LOL I aint even said any names and you guys go personal, grow up.

 

If alt+f4 gets you that much, ill do it everytime i know its you, I dont mind ;)

 

Well when you make a claim that shooting a chute to win is worse than doing it to be a dick, I have a mirror to show you.  

 

Because Alt+F4ing after you get into a bad situation is the same exact thing. 

 

 

The only difference is that you're peacing out just so the other guy doesn't get the kill.

 

As you said, grow up.

Edited by [TWB]dillon_biz

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Whatever man, who cares :)

 

As long as you get pissed its fine by me.

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28 minutes ago, Staiger said:

Whatever man, who cares :)

 

As long as you get pissed its fine by me.

 

That's the spirit.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/3/2018 at 6:13 PM, StG77_Kondor said:


It's a video game mate. [edited]

 

Sarcasm --->

 

 

 

>you

Edited by SYN_Haashashin

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8 hours ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

And of course all talk of e-honor and sportsmanship stops when it's 50 Axis vs. 20 VVS.

 

Overall axis was may be stronger in number than vvs team. 

But severals times vvs ounumbered the axis team also. I've already saw 15-20 vs 3-5 during a whole map so...

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

 

Overall axis was may be stronger in number than vvs team. 

But severals times vvs ounumbered the axis team also. I've already saw 15-20 vs 3-5 during a whole map so...

 

>Overall, the school bully beat up the nerd kid, stole his lunch money and locked him in to his locker but SOMETIMES the nerd kid bit back, so its ok...

Edited by Cpt_Siddy
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So now the bully is crying that the nerd kid shot his chutes, sweet lord Jesus. What a funny discussion. :biggrin:

 

Still, it's best for the reds to always go for the chutes asap. I have seen two Luftie Hartmanns dying, deleting their Streak, and they logged off for several days afterwards. 

 

 

P.S. I think it's bad that shooting the chute isn't always documented. Approximately half of those I have shot and ripped, didn't appear in the statistics. I guess going for the pilot instead of the chute next time is advisable.

P.P.S. Siddy, with the right settings in VR it's no problem to hit the pilot, you'll need the proper VR zoom setting, comparable to the 2D plebs' zoom. Check out lefuneste's 3dmigoto fix in the VR section of the forums for instructions.

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4 hours ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

But severals times vvs ounumbered the axis team also. I've already saw 15-20 vs 3-5 during a whole map so..


Faucon those odds are a piss in the sea. They don't make any difference and not many on red would  be complaining if we had those numbers. It's the 20-60 situations that ruin it. And even then it can be fun flying against those odds, you pick a fighter and adapt your tactics. The problem arises when it's like that every time you log on. Then, you dont get to adapt your tactics, fly a bomber/attack aircraft or go offensive. It's monotonous and you blame the stackers for ruining the game night after night.

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Posted (edited)

TrackIR users be like 

 

 

 

Edited by Cpt_Siddy
asd
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Posted (edited)

Nice compilation Sheriff! Great display of your flying and shooting skills. Some really good kills there man! :salute:
Quite a lot of easy prey though, many of your victims have absolutly no f*#kin' clue that you are closing in behind them. It shows perfectly how horribly unobservant many of the blue fighter pilots are. :o: Flying for the blue side, it hardly ever happens that i catch a red pilot like this on TAW! Most of you red fighters are just way more alert to surrounding threads.
It's no wonder that we lose so many maps because of attrition...

Edited by [I./JG62]Knipser

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I have been wondering why so many new players fly GERMAN - I wonder if it has to do with the easier engine management of German aircraft on full real servers? The fact is the Bf 109 and Fw 190s are easier to fly that Spits, LaGGs and Yaks with there management of Prop Pitch/Mixture/Super Charger/Radiator is just too much to learn. Unless you are highly motivated to do so.

I know in TAW I had to get my act together and became more concerned with bring my aircraft home  However, this draw back is newbies will flock to the Luftwaffe side and waste valuable aircraft because the only barrier to entry is basically entering your name on a  website. I am not saying I am not in the newbie class either (...my stats speak for itself, even though I have EAW and IL-2, IL-2 AEP and IL-2 FB under my belt). 

I guess the big question is how do we not penalize the German team for being the side newbies flock to and at the same time not give them an unfair advantage.

 

This is just an hypotheses so don't jump down my neck LOL - discuss.

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10 minutes ago, JG7_X_Man said:

I have been wondering why so many new players fly GERMAN - I wonder if it has to do with the easier engine management of German aircraft on full real servers? The fact is the Bf 109 and Fw 190s are easier to fly that Spits, LaGGs and Yaks with there management of Prop Pitch/Mixture/Super Charger/Radiator is just too much to learn. Unless you are highly motivated to do so.

I know in TAW I had to get my act together and became more concerned with bring my aircraft home  However, this draw back is newbies will flock to the Luftwaffe side and waste valuable aircraft because the only barrier to entry is basically entering your name on a  website. I am not saying I am not in the newbie class either (...my stats speak for itself, even though I have EAW and IL-2, IL-2 AEP and IL-2 FB under my belt). 

I guess the big question is how do we not penalize the German team for being the side newbies flock to and at the same time not give them an unfair advantage.

 

This is just an hypotheses so don't jump down my neck LOL - discuss.

 

 

You described an issue that is indeed a part contributing to the plane count. I can personally say that when i started on IL-2, i started on Germans purely because it was less of a hassle and German planes had this legendary aura about them. The legendary 109 and 190, what could possibly go wrong? Instant ace, for sure! 

 

Then i got my arse handed to me by Yak's in most embarrassing fashion. So much so i was tempted to go whine on forums. But before i screamed "bias", i tried out red side and WOAH.

Flying reds was hard, but in the end, rewarding. Properly managed red plane could be made to preform almost as well as German plane but it still was not superior. After 3 TAW rounds purely on reds, jumping in German fighter makes me feel like i am flying a super plane, because i know how to fly the planes i go against, i know their limitations better. Despite what anyone have cried on the forums, only the Yak-1b and LA-5F comes even close to the performance of 109 or 190. And even then that holds true at sub 5km altitudes. Spit can offer some trouble for 109 above 5km but it is considerably slower in normal flight. 

 

Moral of the story was, if you are getting hammered by the technically inferior planes in your German super mount, issue is most likely with you and not the game :--D

 

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The funny thing is it isn't that hard to learn the various settings for the various Red side planes. Many of them use the same engines, and so the same settings, or engines that are set up in a similar way, so again similar settings. The one that I'd say is the most difficult to manage is the P-40, and that only because the engine changes manifold pressure with altitude. Every other plane in the game for the Red side is basically set and forget unless you are trying to get ten tenths of performance out of it. I guess it is a bit more complex than the 109's 'push the throttle froward until you go fast,' but it isn't rocket science. Hell, most of the settings can be done on the ground before taxi, so there isn't even that much multitasking required.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, JG7_X_Man said:

I have been wondering why so many new players fly GERMAN - I wonder if it has to do with the easier engine management of German aircraft on full real servers? The fact is the Bf 109 and Fw 190s are easier to fly that Spits, LaGGs and Yaks with there management of Prop Pitch/Mixture/Super Charger/Radiator is just too much to learn. Unless you are highly motivated to do so.

It's not just a matter of learning; manual engine control is always difficult without sophisticated hardware. Remember that the typical Il-2 player only uses a simple joystick. Finger on the trigger, thumb on the POV hat. The other hand adjusts the throttle. 

 

These players must let go of something to reach for the keyboard whenever they change propeller pitch or radiator settings. It's easy to panic when an overheat warning appears in the heat of battle. Should you focus on the fight, or let go of the throttle to adjust the radiator?

 

Therefore, Luftwaffe aircraft are usually more comfortable because all important controls can be mapped to a simple joystick.

Edited by Mitthrawnuruodo
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2 hours ago, Disarray said:

The funny thing is it isn't that hard to learn the various settings for the various Red side planes. Many of them use the same engines, and so the same settings, or engines that are set up in a similar way, so again similar settings. The one that I'd say is the most difficult to manage is the P-40, and that only because the engine changes manifold pressure with altitude. Every other plane in the game for the Red side is basically set and forget unless you are trying to get ten tenths of performance out of it. I guess it is a bit more complex than the 109's 'push the throttle froward until you go fast,' but it isn't rocket science. Hell, most of the settings can be done on the ground before taxi, so there isn't even that much multitasking required.

 

It all seems simple until you have to apply that in combat. 

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So many accusations of chute killing....

It would be easy to just pop a replay video with the shooters name, instead of collectively calling a side "chute killing".

I've see some people trying to chute kill from both side. that does not mean everyone does it. If you have a problem with it, just post the screens with the name and they'll live in infamy. Or just carry on and enjoy the game.

 

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11 hours ago, [I./JG62]Knipser said:

Nice compilation Sheriff! Great display of your flying and shooting skills. Some really good kills there man! :salute:
Quite a lot of easy prey though, many of your victims have absolutly no f*#kin' clue that you are closing in behind them. It shows perfectly how horribly unobservant many of the blue fighter pilots are. :o: Flying for the blue side, it hardly ever happens that i catch a red pilot like this on TAW! Most of you red fighters are just way more alert to surrounding threads.
It's no wonder that we lose so many maps because of attrition...


Thank you! Yes a lot of easy kills. that is true. And since we have that topic going right now let me elaborate a bit. 

I even left many kills out since I had way more "boring" low six 109 kills. To their credit, the six and especially the low six of a 109 is a weak spot which is easy to exploit. However there were plenty of 190s which dont have that excuse.
Furthermore there is rarely a team of 3-4 german fighter pilots working together in a cohesive team. As soon as you meet those, u have no chance anymore. Those guys just let one 109/190 attack, you have to evade and in the mean time the rest of the 109s are working at their energy state. And as soon as they have that advantage the altitude doesn't matter anymore. They just hammer you down until you are out of energy. That's the reason you need to have a exit plan at all times. A route were you can egress to in a reasonable amount of time. 
Even the Yak-1b and La-5(F) can only fight 109s in a similar energy state in a some what equal fight. And even there 190 and 109 possess abilities which are still much better than both.

As soon as you have a smart 109 on your six closing in its a fight for your life. Pilots who fly only german aicraft can't imagine that. The pressure is on you all the time. Your job is to survive long enough to egress, seek help or to wait for a mistake. Especially scary are 190s. While they aren't known for turning.. they can turn into you in a wide speed range. While they use a lot of energy in those turns, that doesn't help you in that moment where you have to evade that insane turn. Furhtermore the 190s are faster on the deck than than the yak1b and La5 while you can outrun 109s. So they can hunt you down what ever you do.

The biggest weapon of russian fighter pilots is that many german fighter pilots have no clue what the reds can do, and what not. I highly recommend to get started in red fighters at some point. You will feel like a super hero in 109 after one campaign in red fighters.  

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29 minutes ago, DerSheriff said:

The biggest weapon of russian fighter pilots is that many german fighter pilots have no clue what the reds can do, and what not.


That sums it up perfectly! :biggrin: Seen it happening through the last TAW's.

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