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=LG=Kathon

Tactical Air War

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Tuesday, I'm not saying those people leaving would be good or bad. Just that it would be a valid reasoning for LG not to implement such a system.

See the graph above.

The problem is not the lack of German fanboys to fill up the server don't worry...rather the opposite.

This shouldn't even be considered as a setback imo but rather as the only solution to ever balance things out, I get that you love it when your team filling up the entire server so you can farm in peace and get the best planes to dominate all day from space.

Last time I played on the German side with the team we ended up making other accounts to help balance the teams out...

At first we all dealth with it but now it's getting really old.

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47x13 right now ... and I was really looking forward to having my first sortie tonight. Guess I'll have to wait for a future map with a Spit in at least

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I am glad that we were able to see the registration numbers before campaign start, but my group was really convinced at playing an entire campaign as blue together. I almost pulled us to fly VVS as many of us do on WoL because, it's always a stack there as well. Really rather disappointed at the moment.

 

For everyone saying to limit the players on one side to a certain number, as far as I know there is no way to implement that. The only option would be a side balancer which would definitely not be good for this server. I wish it were as easy as limit either team to a max of x amount, but I don't think it's possible with the current Dserver software.

Interesting.

Worst case scenario we could ask the devs for this feature that imo we should have had years ago.

Hopefully we'll get that and a queing system.

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Interesting.

Worst case scenario we could ask the devs for this feature that imo we should have had years ago.

Hopefully we'll get that and a queing system.

That would be a very welcome improvement.

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 "If I can't play German I won't play." For that reason I don't think a registration limitation will not be implemented.

 

Then they shall not play. There are more people not playing because of the imbalance anyhow.

  • Upvote 6

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For everyone saying to limit the players on one side to a certain number, as far as I know there is no way to implement that. The only option would be a side balancer which would definitely not be good for this server. I wish it were as easy as limit either team to a max of x amount, but I don't think it's possible with the current Dserver software. 

 

 

According to this forum post: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/33606-server-balance/

 

That functionality DOES exist and it is up to the server owners to take advantage of it.

Edited by =SqSq=switch201

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See the graph above.

The problem is not the lack of German fanboys to fill up the server don't worry...rather the opposite.

This shouldn't even be considered as a setback imo but rather as the only solution to ever balance things out, I get that you love it when your team filling up the entire server so you can farm in peace and get the best planes to dominate all day from space.

Last time I played on the German side with the team we ended up making other accounts to help balance the teams out...

At first we all dealth with it but now it's getting really old.

 

You do know that I've been on your side from the start right? Hell, I've probably been on this side before you. I'm flying VVS this round, just like I did last round, and the round before that and I've been pointing out a problem with the balance the whole time. I've been on this side as it concerns WOL and every other server I've played on. I have something of a reputation as a pain in the ass over this particular issue. I am only trying to point out to you the weakness in the plan in hopes that you can find some way around that, because I don't have a better solution. The only sure fired way I can see to fix the problem is to change the way the people who are causing it view the problem. Right now they don't see the problem of it being 50 v 17. You are quite right that some of them enjoy that kind of numbers, I suspect. Change the mind of the players that cause the problem and the problem will go away. Unfortunately, they seem rather set in their ways.

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maybe for the next campaign they could do a pre-registration. and they only start the campaign once the numbers are decently even in terms of registration. either way, I think we should all be patient, and wait to see what happens in the next couple of weeks.

 

 Hopefully soon, 3.0 will be upon us.  :dance:  :excl:  :dance:

Edited by =SqSq=switch201

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You do know that I've been on your side from the start right? Hell, I've probably been on this side before you. I'm flying VVS this round, just like I did last round, and the round before that and I've been pointing out a problem with the balance the whole time. I've been on this side as it concerns WOL and every other server I've played on. I have something of a reputation as a pain in the ass over this particular issue. I am only trying to point out to you the weakness in the plan in hopes that you can find some way around that, because I don't have a better solution. The only sure fired way I can see to fix the problem is to change the way the people who are causing it view the problem. Right now they don't see the problem of it being 50 v 17. You are quite right that some of them enjoy that kind of numbers, I suspect. Change the mind of the players that cause the problem and the problem will go away. Unfortunately, they seem rather set in their ways.

Point taken, I must admit that I haven't read the whole thread and rarely complain on forums. :)

With all the info coming into light I suppose it's just up to the LG guys really since the function is working and just not used the final decision is theirs since they or one of them owns the server.

I suppose it wouldn't hurt to at least try it for a bit.

 

Hihi

 

TAW.jpg

Gosh the farming is intense... Edited by =FEW=Hauggy

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You know some of these will be at 5k in a 109 with no bombs.

 

 

I dont know where to laugh or cry. 

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I am glad that we were able to see the registration numbers before campaign start, but my group was really convinced at playing an entire campaign as blue together. I almost pulled us to fly VVS as many of us do on WoL because, it's always a stack there as well. Really rather disappointed at the moment.

 

For everyone saying to limit the players on one side to a certain number, as far as I know there is no way to implement that. The only option would be a side balancer which would definitely not be good for this server. I wish it were as easy as limit either team to a max of x amount, but I don't think it's possible with the current Dserver software.

 

Yeah I don't know what to do at the moment. Changing over would be a bitch too. 

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You know some of these will be at 5k in a 109 with no bombs.

So one-handed flying for the side that is essentially playing with itself.

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I have to say, balance has been badly skewed since the campaign start. Adding cold starts has simply added to the frustration. When it takes several minutes just to get a Peshka started and warmed up, it just adds insult to the imbalance injury. Being so overwhelmed by the LW upon arriving at target, then being shot down only to respawn and begin the arduous process again is painful. There is simply no way for the VVS to recover as we just cannot get aircraft and ordinance back on scene quickly enough to have any reasonable effectiveness. I did manage to execute a couple (semi)unmolested bomb runs this morning, but not enough to make any real impact on the LW advance. We only had 2 operational airfields left to fly from, so the LW had any target ingress points well covered.

 

If we are going to have to have to fly skewed numbers, at least remove the cold start so we can die faster. Let's just pretend we have crack ground crews who have been up all night keeping the engines warm so we can effectively get moving. :biggrin:

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Well lets take a look at those stats shall we?

 

In 17 hours you have

83 ground kills

You have died 4 times (the war is over for you Carl) 

been captured once (the war is over for you Carl) 

ditched 6 times 

lost 12 aircraft

been defeated 3 times

flown the Stuka twice

Your average mission flight time is around 20 minutes or so

Fly another 40 hours and we will look at your stats again. 

 

 

 

 

The challange as far as I remeber was to compare the german and russian attackers against the aaa and as I only was shoot down twice by aaa (both times in me110, the aaa never got me in ju87)  in my opinion it proved the point that its easier to attack the aaa defended target with german attackers.(in order not to cloud the results of this exercise  I was  flying alone  and was attacking tank columns defense positions and airfields ).

I lost also  2 attacker planes to enemy planes action, both were 110s (and one bomber)- in both cases there were 2 attacking enemy planes (the other 3 times when the fighters attacked me, I managed to reach home base))

 

When flying pe2, the aaa within the same amount of missions attacking same targets got me more times, not speaking about the il2 which needs the aaa to be taken down or at least dragged. (I'm not speaking about the duarability of the il2 and stucka. the ju87 can dive alone on the column and inflict damage with bombs (1000kg, 500kg or 250 kgs) and fly away, the il2 has shallow attack profile for its main wepons : guns and rockets. Il2 flying alone has little chance against aaa)

 

the other 7 planes lost are not operational mischaps when I hit somethin on AF or in one instance when i dropped accidently the 1000 kg bomb after take off (face palm...).

 

additionally I flew the stuka something like 10 times, before i fell in love with 110 but unfortunately the taw is showing only last something like 30  missions . As far as I remember I've flown 51 missions till this post - 3 in ju52 paradrops or transport flights, 3 in he111 bomb runs, 2 in me109 attack runs, something like 10 in ju87 and the rest in me110. Once I was killed in 110 by 2 P40 fighters, once in HE111 also by P40, once I killed myself with 1000 kg bomb in he111, once the aaa severed my elevator controls in 110 when i attacked from 1200m instead of usual 2100 to 2200m, once I was hit by aaa in 110 then when i returned for starfing after the bomb run when I thought that all aaa was down (one was active), but I ditched and wasn't captured and once I hit the trees with ju87 without any battle damage while speaking with my wife and got captured . So only 2  kills by aaa (one death), both when I decided to do the things that one schouldn't do (and 2 attack planes lost to enemy fighters out of 5 engagments with enemy planes, each time without escort resulting in one death and one ditch heaving flown to own lines after the fuel run out). 

 

I dont understand the thing with 20miute fly time. In attacker plane you take off , attack the target like column, airbase def position and return so the fly time is short , especially when you are flying alone and not waiting for all your mates to hold your hand . 

Unless you want me to go for the depots?

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=3696&name=Carl_infar (ju 87 captured when i hit the trees)

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=3864&name=Carl_infar (110killed by 2 p40s)

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=3945&name=Carl_infar (110 killed by aaa when diving from 1200 m)

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=3988&name=Carl_infar (111 killed with my own bomb)

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=4019&name=Carl_infar (111 killed by 2 P40s)

 

Just a note to myself I wrote my previous post after mission at(23-01-2018 13.10 EU time)

And this before srotie 52 (last sortie 23-01 19:01 EU time)

Edited by Carl_infar

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RIP Taw.

 

Why in hell hasn't there been a cap for side numbers introduced yet?

 

Simply enact a 45 player limit per side and the LW fanboys can piss off elsewhere. There are more players choosing not to play because of the imbalance anyway. Introduce this simple measure and you will see them come back in.

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In between successfully getting the kid to sleep and before I myself collapsed, I got my glorious 16 minutes of flight time on Taw. I like the cold engine starts! And I get to use my new favorite word to describe them: immersive. Also, as a side effect people stick around on the airfield for longer meaning those of us not in a squad get to meet and tag along. Good stuff!

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I can see the argument from some of the LW lifers already. "If I can't play German I won't play." For that reason I don't think a registration limitation will not be implemented. Servers want players and things that will result in players not playing are unattractive. I'm trying to come up with a better soloution, but I don't have one. I hate to be 'that guy' but this may be a lost cause. The LW lifers are the ones who can really fix the problem but they won't. They have proven that time and again.

 

 

What is the worst that can happen if 80 Blues want to play but only 45 are allowed?

 

1) If the map is *not* full then Blue has the majority of players on the map.  They could still have 45 against 5                   --  Well you cannot blame the Blues for turning up. Red reinforcements could still come in.

2) If the map *is* full then only half of them are Blue.                                                                                                                    --  Oh no! How can Blue pilots fight without superior numbers?  :(

3) Half the Blue players registered decide to not play TAW this campaign if they can't guarantee numerical superiority   --  Disaster! If every registered Red plays regularly there could be...<gasp!>... equality!  :o:

 

Do people really feel that only having 45-80 players in each map will cause the best Server in BoX to fail?

Edited by 56RAF_Roblex

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The challange as far as I remeber was to compare the german and russian attackers against the aaa 

 ~Snip~

  I dont understand the thing with 20miute fly time. In attacker plane you take off , attack the target like column, airbase def position and return so the fly time is short , especially when you are flying alone and not waiting for all your mates to hold your hand .  Unless you want me to go for the depots?

 

 

You fail to mention that there are now less K-61's in this campaign (I wonder why?)

 

If you check through the thread I challenged the organisers to fly 110's and Stukas exclusively and did mention a few times that many think the K-61 is OP, they said there was no problem with it and it was just "tactics."  If that is the case why reduce the number of them then?

 

Unreasonable did some in depth testing of the AAA and the results speak for themselves.

 

 https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/32578-bravery-being-out-range/

 

I also don't know if you were attacking targets that have already been attacked where AAA has been knocked out?

 

Hell yeah, fly to a depot by all means, maybe you can find someone to hold your hand on the long flight there?

 

Edit:

At this moment in time though its all pretty irrelevant, because the imbalance between Red and Blue is more or less killing off the campaign.   

Edited by 6./ZG26_Custard

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I think that limiting the 50 vs 50 slot would not be bad as there is the possibility of double account LW = gRiJ = and red = gRiJ = yesterday 60 LW vs 20 allies how many red you have the ability to balance if closed the slot can not It is a humble thought

Edited by =gRij=ToReRo

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The same thing was on old ADW.

First maps - a lot of blues and only few reds.

Last maps - a lot of reds and only few blues.

 

Hell yea !! Blue won a first map !! ... and so f##ing what ?

I think reds wil win the whole campaign again.

We will see how the things will be right now when P-40 and ratas with Shvak apears.

The problem isn't in numbers of players on each side. Problem is with players who do not want to fly  on "based armamaent" ratas against "mighty" E7. Simply - they are afraid something.

27-0 is only when reds had one airfield open.

 

Ramm.

 

ps. the numbers wil change more eguall when BoS planes wil be available. Some ppl do not have BoM yet.

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Ramm.

 

I hope you mistake on your predictions.... end maps of ADW was a shame.... and some editons last 2 maps simply dont be played because no have blues...

 

are Admins thinking in apply some rule quorum like old adw ??  

 

thx

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Dear TAW-devs,

I would like to thank you for this beautiful new multiplayer server! It is a real joy to play.

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I flew red independently last campaign, but the squad I'm in decided to go blue for this one because we thought a lot of squads were going red. I haven't flown this campaign yet because I'm not flying blue when it's 60 vs 15 like I saw last night, no fun in that at all.
Hopefully the reds will turn up when the 'better' aircraft appear.

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You fail to mention that there are now less K-61's in this campaign (I wonder why?)

 

If you check through the thread I challenged the organisers to fly 110's and Stukas exclusively and did mention a few times that many think the K-61 is OP, they said there was no problem with it and it was just "tactics."  If that is the case why reduce the number of them then?

 

Unreasonable did some in depth testing of the AAA and the results speak for themselves.

 

 https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/32578-bravery-being-out-range/

 

I also don't know if you were attacking targets that have already been attacked where AAA has been knocked out?

 

Hell yeah, fly to a depot by all means, maybe you can find someone to hold your hand on the long flight there?

 

Edit:

At this moment in time though its all pretty irrelevant, because the imbalance between Red and Blue is more or less killing off the campaign.   

 

Yes I mentioned in separate posts above the k61.

The k61 was reduced on airfieds, defense postions, but not on tank columns which didnt have it in first place as per LG statement so it was not changed.

 

To check the aaa threat as per Your "quest" i was attacking mostly targets with fully functional aaa and reducing it in next fights (i was also for example calling on chat to attack the columns where I destroyed the aaa, but  with mixed results only in 2 out of several instances some people arrived to finish off the columns after the aaa was down so i switched to attacking airfields and defense positions.

 

Due to unbalance in teams I always was flying reds on taw (and blues, which planes are my favourite I fly on random), I changed this campaign only to blue side because you asked me for this exercise in attackers (somebody claimed that aaa on random is different than on taw)  and I thought You wanted a discussion based upon true arguments when one pilot compares the planes of both sides in similar conditions (so I'm trying to do it without any sympathies and fly  solo against the aaa in order not to cloud my experience with staked teams...).

 

But unforunately based on your posts I think you are not at all interested in it, You have only your fixed opinion and no data will change it.

 

And the blue team at least in my flying experience in red team has always smaller or bigger advantage 

Edited by Carl_infar

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We will see how the things will be right now when P-40 and ratas with Shvak apears.

The problem isn't in numbers of players on each side. Problem is with players who do not want to fly on "based armamaent" ratas against "mighty" E7. Simply - they are afraid something.

Don't agree, I16 without 20mm is more than enough vs e7. I really like flying those , it's imbalance which results in further reduction of red players. Edited by 307_Tomcat
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I think reds wil win the whole campaign again.

We will see how the things will be right now when P-40 and ratas with Shvak apears.

The problem isn't in numbers of players on each side. Problem is with players who do not want to fly  on "based armamaent" ratas against "mighty" E7. Simply - they are afraid something.

27-0 is only when reds had one airfield open.

 

ps. the numbers wil change more eguall when BoS planes wil be available. Some ppl do not have BoM yet.

 

Can't understand why red pilots do not fly i16. I see only one reason that they do not have the BOM edition. At the first week 20018 it was only 20 eur in the shop. Can't understand why they do not have it at all.

Don't agree, I16 without 20mm is more than enough vs e7. I really like flying those , it's imbalance which results in further reduction of red players.

+1. i16 has a better climb. Just arrive high and kill e7. Simply.

Yes I mentioned in separate posts above the k61.

..

..

But unforunately based on your posts I think you are not at all interested in it, You have only your fixed opinion and no data will change it.

And the blue team at least in my flying experience in red team has always smaller or bigger advantage 

 

The stat from the last campaign shows exactly what is K61. Do you think that your own experience can change it somehow ? 

 

The red team has great tools to kill the tanks.

 

So, very easy rules to win:

 

1. Stay high over the red AF and kill all bombers and fighters that arrive to attack the AF.

2. Kill the both column in first 20 minutes, as i said before you need something like 2..3 Pe2 or 2..3 il2 for every column (but for sure with the fighters).

 

Follow these easy rules and the blue team has no chance to win.

Edited by Kra

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taw)  and I thought You wanted a discussion based upon true arguments when one pilot compares the planes of both sides in similar conditions (so I'm trying to do it without any sympathies and fly  solo against the aaa in order not to cloud my experience with staked teams...).   But unforunately based on your posts I think you are not at all interested in it, You have only your fixed opinion and no data will change it.  

 

And there is the problem (in bold). In order to carry out a "fair" comparison you have to have the same conditions (something we no longer have) i.e less K-61's

 

I even asked the organisers to keep the same AAA set-up that they used last time but they clearly haven't  

 

Some of the numbers from the last campaign were very telling.

EscX5z4.jpg

 

Very interesting "data"

 

It's seems as though you think that I'm wrong and you are right though. I can only assume from what you have posted you believe that ground attacking using 110's and Stukas is much easier than using IL2's and Pe-2's and the Petlyakov is less superior than the 110 E-2? You also seem to suggest that your lone wolf tactics are better than my squad tactics?

 

Edit: We are flying Red this time round, so when I have a chance to put some flight time in I'll give you my impression of flying VVS ground pounding.

Edited by 6./ZG26_Custard

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And there is the problem (in bold). In order to carry out a "fair" comparison you have to have the same conditions (something we no longer have) i.e less K-61's

 

I even asked the organisers to keep the same AAA set-up that they used last time but they clearly haven't  

 

Some of the numbers from the last campaign were very telling.

EscX5z4.jpg

 

Very interesting "data"

 

It's seems as though you think that I'm wrong and you are right though. I can only assume from what you have posted you believe that ground attacking using 110's and Stukas is much easier than using IL2's and Pe-2's and the Petlyakov is less superior than the 110 E-2? You also seem to suggest that your lone wolf tactics are better than my squad tactics?

 

Edit: We are flying Red this time round, so when I have a chance to put some flight time in I'll give you my impression of flying VVS ground pounding.

 

I think You are missing the point.

 

As I understood the point of our discussion and Your chellange was to compare russian and german attackers when attacking targets defended by AAA (because I claimed that many german pilots make poor attack runs and get shoot down by aaa). To do it I'm flying alone (the team work is always better than lone wolfing, and in current game you need just 1-2 fighters to easy drag the aaa and each attacker even ju52 if armed with bombs could make its attack run). And I found that due to 110 and ju87 nimbleness compared to pe2 its way easier to doge the aaa while making diving attacks.

 

the german columns never had the 37mm guns so I started comparing with attacks on the columns than i went for the defense pos& afs which have the number of 37 reduced by half and substituted with 20mms, but germans dont have the 37mm in field so even the reduced number of 37mms is more than zero 37mms when I was flying red side.

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BS. 

 

But anyways, Our Experience of this Campaign so far:

 

Trying to get on the Server (which only 3 of 7 on our TS managed), select Pe-2, spawn, Engines won't start because they are Cold (which is fine by me, although Il-2 Start Up Modelling is annoying, I want to hold the Starter until it runs, not this wimpy 3 Second Bollox on Idle Throttle that only works on Warm Engines)

.

.

.

.

.

Get Idle Kicked because Engines's aren't running and we can't move. And because only 3 of 7 managed to get on, 1 was kicked, all left.

 

So far then we haven't flown therefore. 
 

Please increase Idle Kick Time and tell people that they can still taxi with a Cold Engine. Just a little Message "Your Engines are Cold, you may still taxi, but let your Engine Warm up before Take Off"

Edited by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann
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I think You are missing the point.

 

I'm really not.

 

My main contention was and is the effectiveness of AI AAA and that the K-61 is OP

 

You seem have picked up on something that I'm saying it's much easier flying VVS? 

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/21029-tactical-air-war/page-163?do=findComment&comment=548133

 

I "invited" the orgainers  to fly as LW Ground pounders using the same set up.

 

 https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/21029-tactical-air-war/?p=548810

 

 

They have changed the set up (less K-61's)

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/21029-tactical-air-war/?p=548795

 

 

 

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But anyways, Our Experience of this Campaign so far:

 

Get Idle Kicked because Engines's aren't running and we can't move. And because only 3 of 7 managed to get on, 1 was kicked, all left.

 

So far then we haven't flown therefore. 

 

Please increase Idle Kick Time and tell people that they can still taxi with a Cold Engine. Just a little Message "Your Engines are Cold, you may still taxi, but let your Engine Warm up before Take Off"

This pretty much sums up my experience also.

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