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Tactical Air War

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Good to know that’s how cold starts can be handled in the game, thanks. Doesn’t seem exactly realistic, though.

It is. You can warm the engine before take off and lose the time, or save time but take a risk.

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It is. You can warm the engine before take off and lose the time, or save time but take a risk.

 

And what was the ground crew doing? 

 

Only a scramble means a cold engine, and in winter time there no scramble - you can't even get engine of that size, using oil from that period, started at -20C. 

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Do you have a citation for that?

 

Seriously....... When I was mining diamonds out of Yellowknife I saw DC3's flying in -40C daily. I'm sure they are warmed up some but I don't think it would be as bad as that.

I'd be more concerned about the battery.......

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And what was the ground crew doing? 

 

Only a scramble means a cold engine, and in winter time there no scramble - you can't even get engine of that size, using oil from that period, started at -20C.

Realistic about engine damage nothing else.

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Do you have a citation for that?

 

Seriously....... When I was mining diamonds out of Yellowknife I saw DC3's flying in -40C daily. I'm sure they are warmed up some but I don't think it would be as bad as that.

I'd be more concerned about the battery.......

 

Yeah, in the year 2000 +- 18.

 

We got things like synthetic oil that is engineered to coil or uncoil on itself to accommodate wider ranges of temperatures. Not to mention that there was probably methods developed to do the cold starts. 

 

To start and WW2 era plane using that era oil's usually takes preheat. 

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To my knowledge you do not use synthetics in old engines. They are thinner and you end up pissing out oil.

You  are not providing any citation to back your claim.......

 

My avatar is my rig. I don't like to use synthetics in my 1992 4Runner or she pisses oil out the rear main seal...... I use nothing but synthetics in my 06 F250.

 

I use a battery blanket and oil pan heater....... In -50 the oil is still thick enough to hear it turn over. All the gear oil which is synthetic by the way is thick enough to feel every shift and driveline drag for about 10 minutes before it heats up.

 

No citation means you are probably incorrect. Mine is anecdotal to my real life arctic experience but then I'm not making claims that you can't start it......

Edited by 7./JG26_Smokejumper

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To my knowledge you do not use synthetics in old engines. They are thinner and you end up pissing out oil.

You  are not providing any citation to back your claim.......

 

In my avatar I don't even like to use synthetics in my 1992 4Runner or she pisses oil out the rear main seal......

 

I use a battery blanket and oil pan heater....... In -50 the oil is still thick enough to hear it turn over. All the gear oil which is synthetic by the way is thick enough to feel every shift and driveline drag for about 10 minutes before it heats up.

 

No citation means you are probably incorrect. Mine is anecdotal to my real life arctic experience but then I'm not making claims that you can't start it......

 

 

Synthetics dont mean thinner by default. You use oil that is engineered for the application and the environment that application will find itself in.

 

Wide temperature range oils usually are made of hydrocarbon chains that are more likely to coil on themselves in cold environment, thus thinning them, and uncoiling in hot environment and providing lubrication. 

I dont know what oil aerospace industries use today, but i assure you, whatever they use now is better quality compared what soviets had back in 1939. 

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I'm sure it is much better.

 

Still no citation........ You don't think the Russians who deal with the cold every single year didn't figure out how to remain operational in winter?

 I have no idea what that might be, some blanket heater? Electric heat? Fire? Or maybe, just maybe hydrocarbons even in 1941 don't freeze solid..... They just get thick like molasses and require warm up time. You can't kick thew tires and light the fires for a cold scramble of course but they certainly will start.

 

The probably fired them up before dawn and kept them warm all day.

Edited by 7./JG26_Smokejumper

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You don't think the Russians who deal with the cold every single year didn't figure out how to remain operational in winter?

 

 

Yes, they knew methods of how to handle engine in the winter. I think someone already explained how they did it somewhere in this thread, and starting engine dead cold below freezing was not what they did. 

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Its impossible to join the server atm because you are unable to download the mission file.

 

And i can't cancel the download and have to kill the whole game every time.

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This sever atm.

 

 

:biggrin:

What a Beauty. Old Ladas are awesome. But pretty much all of them came with with a Pair of Winter and Summer Jets for the Carb and Primer Pumps. So that Cold Start may have been a bit of a show. 

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This sever atm.

 

 

:biggrin:

I actually had one of these. It was brown......

Yes, they knew methods of how to handle engine in the winter. I think someone already explained how they did it somewhere in this thread, and starting engine dead cold below freezing was not what they did. 

Heating overnight and dawn start. That would be my assumption given that is how we still start dead cold engines in the arctic now.

Outside power source or a charge on the battery all night or it will be dead in the morning.

 

I would not be surprised if they started them up every 30 minutes all day after initial morning start.

Edited by 7./JG26_Smokejumper

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I actually had one of these. It was brown......

Heating overnight and dawn start. That would be my assumption given that is how we still start dead cold engines in the arctic now.

Outside power source or a charge on the battery all night or it will be dead in the morning.

 

I would not be surprised if they started them up every 30 minutes all day after initial morning start.

 

 

More or less yes. That's what we used to do in army for the important heavy machinery in the exercises too. At least to the older soviet stuff we had, our domestic stuff had a fuel heaters. Also the French stuff was hopeless when it went under ´-20C, for that i lost all my respect for french engineering. 

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Well quite a few of us couldnt get on tonight which is a shame . I'm hoping the developers start looking at multiplayer and making it work at some point a lot of effort goes into these campaign and its not easy with the set up we have . The server broke I thank you for your hard work.

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0evzTsb.png

 

 

... Well then. My hype for this server died fast. 

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Hahahaha yeah I was playing solo last night against the whole LW... it was 5 109s vs my i16 or 5 110s against my il2... I ran out of planes real fast...

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Ppl will stop playing if there will be huge constant fraction unbalance.

Edited by 307_Tomcat
  • Upvote 1

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Our group played vvs twice. Now playing axis once. We like to use all aircraft and it's time for some lw. Shame some of the permanent axis won't change over in a similar manner

It's their choice... It's just a strange one

  • Upvote 1

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Anyone else feel like the engine start up success is random? Starting a PE-2 up is very hit or miss. I see these procedures and everything but I also noticed that when I hit the start button for the engine it resets everything to the default starting settings so that seems kind of pointless; even if I use the start engine 1 only command. Sometimes the engine starts, a lot of the time it does not. I appreciate that this server is trying new things and all, but this seems like it is just adding busy work and random frustration.

Edited by Disarray

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I am not a fan of the cold start either. Force of habit dictates that I spawn and immediately hit "E" to get going. Doing so instantly negates any hope of a quick startup. I know it's my own forgetfulness, but still...it's kinda silly if you ask me.

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Dear admins,

 

is is possible to configure autokick if a fraction has 2.2x more pilots? I mean... if there are more than 55 pilots on one side no more pilots will be connected to this side..something like that? (in this case at least 25 pilots on the second side can play).

 

If there is a situation 30 vs 10 i see no problem. But 60 vs 20 it is..only because no more players can help these 20 :)

 

Second question. I know, we have the button "Donate"...but..Do you have some plans to upgrade the hardware?  Maybe it is not a bad idea to upgrade something. Last 2 days there were a lot of missions that were stopped...

Just inform us and i am sure we can help.

 

 

One more question. We saw yesterday the tank column and one AAA was located somewhere in the forest. It seems to be some failure. Maybe it was a hidden group...but the location in the forest can't be correct one. It is not possible to kill it...because we can't see it before it is attacking...

Edited by Kra

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The faction balance is not really a problem as long as it doesn't get completely out of hand (3 to 1 at any giving point). It is actually very entertaining to fly against a lot of enemies as long as you got a wingman because you don't have to look for a target very long. Also keep in mind that many people on VVS side don't like to fly the first 1-2 maps because of the plane set. It usually gets more even the further the campaign progresses. It is even possible that we will see it the other way around at the end of the campaign.

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 It is even possible that we will see it the other way around at the end of the campaign.

 

Only if the Axis is getting it's face stomped into the ground and all the pilots quit trying(as has happened in the past) .  Otherwise, there is just no way that is happening.

Edited by 7.GShAP/Silas

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More than 2:1 should not be possible.

Also lock either side at 45 players.

 

There need to be some penalties for axis, I see no way around it.

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The faction balance is not really a problem as long as it doesn't get completely out of hand (3 to 1 at any giving point). It is actually very entertaining to fly against a lot of enemies as long as you got a wingman because you don't have to look for a target very long. Also keep in mind that many people on VVS side don't like to fly the first 1-2 maps because of the plane set. It usually gets more even the further the campaign progresses. It is even possible that we will see it the other way around at the end of the campaign.

 

I didn't say something about a balance. But yesterday it was something like 55 vs 20 and noone red can just respawn (and as i know the same problem was for LW). I suppose the limit for the one side should be set to 55. I think it will be fair, the other side want to play also but can't connect.

Edited by Kra

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As a fighter maybe, but the 'war' relies on people attacking ground targets, and when in a bomber I actually prefer not to see any enemy at all, or have enough fighters on my side to try and give some kind of cover.

 

I don't see TAW as being a dogfight server, I thought it aims to be more than that.

 

The goal is to win. If it isn't possible to achieve that with mainly ground attacking and VVS is on the defense you can still win by attrition.

 

But i get your point. Ground attackers have a difficult time at the moment.

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It is even possible that we will see it the other way around at the end of the campaign.

 

Why do you think so? All last maps have 109f4 and as an Axis player by the last campaign I saw no problem with 109f4 vs Yak 1b or Spit or whatever the red side had.

 

Currently i see no problem with the planeset for 1941 (I am a red player now). P40 and i16 are just perfect vs E107 and Mc202. 

And IL2 and Pe2 are just the champions vs ground target. So, the only one problem is that the red players can't connect.  That is all.

Edited by Kra

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I didn't say something about a balance. But yesterday it was something like 55 vs 20 and noone red can just respawn (and as i know the same problem was for LW). I suppose the limit for the one side should be set to 55. I think it will be fair, the other side want to play also but can't connect.

There are enough allied players in prime time but they cannot join. Even 45 players max is giving a numerical advantage, but one that would be tolerable as it would be 45 vs 35 max. With 55 it would be 55 vs 25 max, which is both unfair and frustrating IMO.

  • Upvote 3

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Fair enough. limit the number of slots per side might as well encourage to choose the less numerous side. 45max per side looks acceptable to start with...so +1!

anyway...the server stability issue is actually more concerning for me...spent 1h on a sortie yesterday that ended with a server crash :-(....well wasn't a very successful sortie as usual for me anyway...but still:-)

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I'm flying red next time but I'll offer you a little challenge. Fly in the next one as a LW ground attack aircraft.Not in an La-5 or a Pe-2, fly a Stuka or a 110-E and then we can have a chat about the campaign after its over.  

Having accepted Your challenge I selected germans attackers for current TAW.

 

Well I must say that I thought previously that flying german attackers is equal hard as russian ones. But now after I've flown roughly ~35 sorties with me110 and Ju87 on TAW I had to change my mind - its easier to fly german attackers.

 

I was shoot down by aaa only one time ( i've done 90% of those attacks alone without support) and only due to the fact that after I dropped the bombs I returned for low level straight line starfing, because i thought i got all the aaa guns, but one was left and i noticed it too late... (I lost also one plane when 2 p40s attacked me and another one after i run out of fule when my fuel tanks were punctured in dogfight with 2 opponents, but I managed to fly that bird 50 km to friendly lines on one engine. The other 4 lost planes were non combat related stupid  mischaps when I hit trees, buildings etc. while being distraced by my wife and not looking onto the screen...)

 

The real world combat attack pilots are trained (or were trained when using ungided muitions) to change all 3 variables while attacking - the speed the hight and the course. Its much easier to do it with me110 and ju87 cause they are more manuverable than pe2. Within the same amount of sorties I was hit many more times in PE2 than in 110 or ju87, and my current impression is that german flak for me is  more deadly, with those agile german attack planes the russian flak is much easier to dodge. 

 

For me 110 is especially superb plane - it takes more bombs than pe2, its more manuverable, faster and flyes superbly on one engine (you can climb go at least 300 kph, an put the ball in centre with ruder trim only). Not to mention the equal or bigger bomb loads of those planes. 

 

Thers one another, nonplane related thing that i noticed. On each 2h map roughly half of german team doesn't make any ground kills, or air kills. I'm just wondering what they are doing?

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 On each 2h map roughly half of german team doesn't make any ground kills, or air kills. I'm just wondering what they are doing?

 

Hovering over their tank base at 6000m refusing to come down unless they see an unescorted bomber fly past which never happens because all the PE2 & IL2s are at treetops and cannot be seen from 6000m  ;)

  • Upvote 2

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be careful Carl_Infar...  im sure many people will tell you are playing another game.

 

hahahahhaahah

 

 

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Having accepted Your challenge I selected germans attackers for current TAW.

 

Well I must say that I thought previously that flying german attackers is equal hard as russian ones. But now after I've flown roughly ~35 sorties with me110 and Ju87 on TAW I had to change my mind - its easier to fly german attackers.

 

I was shoot down by aaa only one time ( i've done 90% of those attacks alone without support) and only due to the fact that after I dropped the bombs I returned for low level straight line starfing, because i thought i got all the aaa guns, but one was left and i noticed it too late... (I lost also one plane when 2 p40s attacked me and another one after i run out of fule when my fuel tanks were punctured in dogfight with 2 opponents, but I managed to fly that bird 50 km to friendly lines on one engine. The other 4 lost planes were non combat related stupid  mischaps when I hit trees, buildings etc. while being distraced by my wife and not looking onto the screen...)

 

The real world combat attack pilots are trained (or were trained when using ungided muitions) to change all 3 variables while attacking - the speed the hight and the course. Its much easier to do it with me110 and ju87 cause they are more manuverable than pe2. Within the same amount of sorties I was hit many more times in PE2 than in 110 or ju87, and my current impression is that german flak for me is  more deadly, with those agile german attack planes the russian flak is much easier to dodge. 

 

For me 110 is especially superb plane - it takes more bombs than pe2, its more manuverable, faster and flyes superbly on one engine (you can climb go at least 300 kph, an put the ball in centre with ruder trim only). Not to mention the equal or bigger bomb loads of those planes. 

 

 

I agree with you, although I do not think you'll find many pilots on the German side who share your opinion

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